Wayward Son

I'd say he could have a recurring role on WS if it gets picked up! If they don't kill him off in ep 3 he could reappear for eps 9-10, but beyond that I doubt we will ever see him on the main show again. If it gets picked up he may appear on the spin off, and if it doesn't we will prob never hear of him or Patience again. The same way we never saw the Bloodlines lot again lol

Sadly, Robbie Thompson ruined that scene for me when he stated on Twitter Dean only said what he said so he could live rather than it being genuine.

Maybe it's something to do with actor availability? As in Kim Rhodes and/or the actress playing Patience were only available during the dates they were filming episode 3? So that's why the Patience episode was placed there. My guess, in terms of the main cast, is the episode will be J2 lite, no Misha, no Mark Pellegrino and Jack is a maybe. I'd say the stars of the episode will be Kim Rhodes and the actress playing Patience. Im expecting episode 4 to be quite Misha heavy though. Although episode titles can be misleading so who knows lol

I've read that apparently episode 3 is apparently very J2 lite. Jared didn't film at all this week and Jensen was only there for 1.5 days or something. So I'd say your right about that @SueB. They're probably also looking to set up Patience as a character we can really root for.

++ Jus in Bello ++ No Rest for the Wicked -- Bad Day at Black Rock 63 - Jus in Bello 59 - No Rest for the Wicked 31 - Mystery Spot 27 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 15 - The Kids Are Alright 13 - Long Distance Call 11 - Time is on My Side 09 - Bedtime Stories 09 - Ghostfacers 07 - Bad Day at Black Rock 05 - Dream a Little Dream of Me Dragged to Hell by Hellhounds... 16. Malleus Maleficarum 15. Red Sky at Morning 14. Sin City 13. Fresh Blood 12. The Magnificent Seven

I think we've been getting our wires crossed! If so, sorry I've probably been the one misreading your posts. I'm going to basically summarise how I understood things so we can get back on track. Please correct what I've got wrong. The way I understood your post was that you were arguing Gadreel was lying about needing to possess Sam to heal him. That you thought Gadreel could have just healed Sam by touch i.e touched Sam's forehead to heal the wounds and then leave. That you thought he lied to Dean and pretended possession was the only option as he needed somewhere to hide out from the other angels. I was counter-arguing that IMO he definitely did need to heal via possession rather than touch due to Castiel's words. Although, I do agree with you he may not have been as quick to offer to possess Sam, if he weren't desperate and on the run. And yes, if Cas had of had his grace at the time he too could have healed Sam by possession. He just couldn't heal him from extrernal touch alone.

I looked it up! According to the Goodbye Stranger transcript Cas said the following in regards to Sam's state So that's why I thought Gadreel was telling the truth about being unable to heal Sam from the outside I.e by just his forehead and that he could only do so via possession from the inside. It was also why I was musing that since we know angelic possession changes the host at a subatomic level (it must do to heal the damage caused to Sam at that level) then it's feasible it alters the hosts genetics enough to change the way their offspring end up also :) . @catrox14 ETA: But I do agree he may not have been as eager to offer himself as an aide, if he didn't have the need for somewhere to hide safely from the other angels.

What makes you think that? As I mentioned, its been a while since I watched seasons 8 and 9, but I could have sworn I remembered Cas firmly stating Sam had been altered at a molecular level and was beyond external healing. I figured I'd post here rather than bitch vs jerk since we are discussing the mechanics of the resurrection rather than who wronged who etc.

Well we know from First Born that an angel does leave behind residual grace for a period of time post possession, so that grace could have his DNA temporarily altered for a period of time. However, I'd say any such effects on Sam have long worn off since it's been nearly 10 in verse years since he was possessed by Lucifer.

Interestingly, I'm actually not a big fan of the "Oh, I was supposed to lie" scene. It is one of those occasions where Misha's delivery comes across a little hammy for me. Plus, from a writing viewpoint it doesn't work. We know from both late season 4 and season 6 Castiel is actually quite a capable liar when the occasion calls for it. I do agree on the Reading is Fundamental scene though :) I was thinking more in terms of Misha best display of acting when I was listing those moments. His acting in the baby scene is alright, but not stand out for me. However, I would agree that should definitely go down as one of Cas' most adorable moments :D Ooh yes! I completely agree with you about Abandon All Hope. Unsurprisingly, it was a Ben Edlund episode. He always did the best job with writing scripts that showed the different facets of Castiel! I miss him and Misha working together. Ooh yes that's another interesting moment! I'm not a big fan of the crazy Cas arc on a story level, but Misha definitely does try to make the best of what he was given to work with.

Poor President Jeff indeed! In my opinion the genetic make up of Jack consists of: Kelly's egg + Jeff's sperm + Lucifer's angelic grace. So from our human perspective Jeff and Kelly are his parents. They are the one who would be identified as a match if a DNA test was carried out. However, from an Angels perspective it is probably entirely different. I imagine for them the inheritance of grace is probably just as big a deal. I could even imagine for an angel who views humans the way Lucifer does the grace inherited from him is far more important than "the genetic material of a mud monkey". In regards to Jesse he actually makes a lot less sense to me. Basically, from what we are told, his genetic make up consists of: A human female's egg + a mangled and twisted soul. Since we know from several statements demons are basically powered up ghosts. They have no physical form of their own outside of the human host they inhabit. So I could see a part of their soul latching on to a child, but they certainly shouldn't be enough to replace human sperm IMO, which makes his mother being a modern day Virgin Mary a bit laughable Perhaps an angel does get into the fiber of the person? It's been a while since I've watched season 8 and 9 due to my immense dislike of both. However, doesn't Castiel say the trials had damaged Sam at a molecular level he could not heal? And then Gadreel later argues that the only way for such damage to be healed is through possession. So perhaps, during active possession at least, an angel does alter their host at that level hence Gadreel being able to heal the damage done to Sam.

Perhaps in the case of a male inhabiting angel and a human female, in addition to the man's sperm some of the angels grace was transferred and involved in the conception of the baby? It would certainly explain where their powers come from? Otherwise I've got nothing lol.

Oh I know I'm just kidding as I'm sure was Misha :) .

Ooh I'd forgotten about that! Good thing I'm doing a full series rewatch ATM. Thanks for the reminder :) . Lucky kid has a gazillion potential daddies haha

That made me chuckle! And let's not forget that Sam too is Jack's father-by-possession-four times removed!* So really everyone but Dean has a claim to being that boys daddy Lol Technically Cas is his father-by-possession-thrice-removed. If I remember right the Lucifer possession goes Sam (Swan Song) > Cas (Latter half of S11) > Vince Vincente > Arch bishop > President Jefferson. And now he's Nick again, but that happened after jack's conception and doesn't count LOL

Users were referring to a con taking place in October 2018 not October 2017 :) So it would have taken place shortly after the premiere of S14

https://mobile.twitter.com/mishacollins/status/895769816321150976 Misha welcoming Alexander to the SPNFamily in a way only Misha would hahahaa

I totally agree that both "I lied" and "I'm proud of us" were ridiculous. They're prime examples of the terrible writing throughout s9

-- Bad Day at Black Rock ++ Jus in Bello ++ No Rest for the Wicked 61 - Jus in Bello 57 - No Rest for the Wicked 31 - Mystery Spot 27 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 15 - The Kids Are Alright 13 - Long Distance Call 11 - Time is on My Side 11 - Bedtime Stories 09 - Ghostfacers 07 - Bad Day at Black Rock 07 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 01 - The Magnificent Seven Dragged to Hell by Hellhounds... 16. Malleus Maleficarum 15. Red Sky at Morning 14. Sin City 13. Fresh Blood

How many appearances do you guys think the regulars will make this season? My guesses are Jared and Jensen = 23/23. This is a statement rather than a guess haha. Alexander Calvert = 13/23. Thirteen seems to be the shows upper limit for recurring cast in recent years. Since he's young, and more importantly, I'm speculating cheap he'll probably reach the quota. Mark Pellegrino = 11-12/23. Mark has tons of experience in the industry and probably negotiated for a high wage as a result. I think like Mark Sheppard he'll appear in slightly less than the upper limit. Misha Collins = 11/23. This would match his number of appearances in season 12. My personal spec is that his last contract negotiation came with a salary increase in addition to the "and" credit. Bonus Samantha Smith = 10-11/13. I think she'll play a decent part in the season, but not as big a part as last year now the novelty of Mary's return has worn off.

I'm not super attached to the heaven and hell storyline. I'm attached to Castiel, but I'd be happy for them to make him human and move on from it! However, Id want a mytharc of some sort. If the show were to go to a pure monster of the week format then it turns down into a crappy police procedural with monsters instead of criminals, and, well, there's a reason I don't watch police procedural shows .

Pushing aside my feelings about the whole possession because I don't want to get into a rant ;) . If Sam wasn't really in danger of dying then doesn't that mean Dean allowing Gadreel to possess him was truly pointless?

I've always thought it was Death for the simple fact the show never cares to explain where his actual reaper was if it wasn't Death. I mean the other two near death experiences we know of involved reapers. Dean was confronted by Tessa while he was dying during In My Time of Dying and Bobby was confronted by an unnamed reaper when he died during Death's Door. If Death wasn't real then where the hell was Sam's actual reaper?

I figured I'd revive this thread for some discussion on your favourite moments of Misha / Cas throughout the show since similar discussion is occurring over in the Dean and Sam thread. Most of the moments are from S4/5 since I'm currently rewatching the show and those seasons are freshest. I love the entire first scene between Dean and Castiel at the end of Lazarus Rising. Misha does an excellent job of introducing Cas as this other worldly tension and there is instant chemistry between the two characters. My favourite line though is "What's the matter? You don't think you deserve to be saved? I love the way Cas' head tilts ever so slightly and his face crinkles up in confusion before the realization comes to him. On the Head of a Pin as a whole has to be a highlight of Misha's acting. I just love the way he conveys Cas' growing conflict. He has doubts about the validity of his orders and yet he isn't ready to rebel. He is disgusted and indignant at the very idea of being like her. I can really feel the weird mesh of conflicting emotions felt by Cas here. The confrontation between Dean and Castiel outside the motel in The Monster at the End of this Book. Misha's whole body language does an excellent job of conveying that he is trying to tell Dean something without actually telling him. There is even an element of "omg you idiot" in there when Dean takes a while to get what he's alluding to. The scene where Castiel finally rebels against heaven especially at the very beginning when he shoves Dean against the wall to silence him. I have to give joint credit for this as both Jensen and Misha do an incredible job of showing Castiel and Dean communicating without the need for words. The confrontation between Zachariah and Castiel at the end of Sympathy for the Devil. The complete change in Castiel's posture, tone and mannerisms reveals he is filled with a new sense of purpose. When a broken Castiel breaks and refers to Chuck as a Son of a Bitch. You can just hear the despair in his tone. The motel scene between Sam and Castiel during 99 Problems was hilarious especially the deliver of "And I drank it!". Misha does an incredibly funny drunk Cas. The Man Who Would Be King is just a masterpiece for Misha acting as Castiel. He does an incredible job of conveying multiple sides to the character including his conflicting hubris and doubts about the validity of his actions. The scene between Dean and Castiel where he states he might kill himself breaks my heart every time I watch it. The scene where he tells Lily Sunder he will be waiting if she finds she can't forgive him. His genuine repentance and sadness shone through his performance. I can't wait to see everyone else moments.

++ No Rest for the Wicked ++ Jus in Bello -- Bad Day at Black Rock 59 - Jus in Bello 55 - No Rest for the Wicked 31 - Mystery Spot 27 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 15 - The Kids Are Alright 13 - Long Distance Call 11 - Time is on My Side 11 - Bedtime Stories 11 - Ghostfacers 09 - Bad Day at Black Rock 07 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 03 - The Magnificent Seven Dragged to Hell by Hellhounds... 16. Malleus Maleficarum 15. Red Sky at Morning 14. Sin City 13. Fresh Blood