Wayward Son

They’ll probably do Dean!Michael episode 22 and 23. He succeeds in defeating Au!Michael and the cliffhanger scene is Michael refusing to exit Dean as promised and disappearing leaving Sam and possibly Cas staring at the spot he stood.

That’s a surprise..:. To no one ((that’s not directed at you personally just a joke about how obvious the renewal was haha))

For the reasons I outline above I don’t think this shows cast is cheap compared to the rest of the CW. However, if we are talking about tv in general then I’d agree the cast are cheaper, or similar to, the cast of shows on bigger networks such as ABC, NBC and CBS.

IMO whether the regulars (Misha, Mark P and Alexander) stay with the show will most likely come down to financial logistics. While Supernatural only has two leads, compared to the other ensemble CW shows which have 5 or 6, it has two very expensive (for the CW) leads. IIRC the last publicly released per episode figure for J2 was $175,000 each, which means the two alone cost $350,000 per episode. That figure was released in 2016 and may have increased further since. By contrast the last public per episode figure for Arrow lead Stephen Amell was $50,000 though again that may have gone up in negotiations that have taken place since then. So J2 roughly cost the same as seven leads on the networks second oldest show. As a result there isn’t as much left in the budget for the regulars as people may think based on the fact there’s only two leads. Unless they feel Jack has come to his natural end storyline wise I can’t imagine they’ll let Alexander go. I’d imagine he’s a relatively cheap regular. He’s young, with limited overall experience and therefore needs to build a name for himself, and he’s only new to the show this year. All factors which don’t allow him to go to the negotiations table expecting a large wage. Without access to the exact figures its impossible to know who is a more costly regular, Misha or Mark P. On the one hand, Misha has SN seniority. He has been with the show every season for ten years now and has been a regular for the last five. It is also well known Castiel is a beloved character with a strong fan base, which gives him a stronger position at the negotiating table. Misha has also recently been upgraded billing wise so the credits read “And Misha Collins”. Was this a perk for his CV or was it offered in lieu of a pay raise? If so is Misha actually a much cheaper regular than we’d expect? On the other hand, Misha hasn’t made much of an impact on the entertainment world outside of Supernatural. Mark Pellegrino however has been on numerous shows and has established a strong reputation for himself as a result. Would the fact he’s a better overall known name than Misha be able to enough offset Misha’s advantages and earn him a higher pay? I think the answer to that question would probably have a large influence on who stays or goes between Misha and Mark P if one of them needed to be let go for budgetary reasons.

The two brother only episodes this year were The Scorpion and the Frog and The Most Holy Man. IIRC those two episodes only featured Sam and Dean and a bunch of one off characters. Advanced Thantology was nearly a brother only episode. Although it did feature one recurring character (Billie) and a regular (Cas) though he only had a non speaking role in the final scene of the episode).

Personally, I wouldn’t have a problem with this since the two brother only episodes this season were dire and completely boring. However, whether one looks at it as a good thing or bad, I think it has more to do with J2 than Dabb. They've mentioned at cons before an eagerness to get more time off to be with their family’s so I’d imagine that was a key part of previous negotiations. So I’d say the “blame” for the more ensemble feel lies with J2 rather than Dabb. Especially since their contracts are not negotiated with Dabb or the CW, but the WB itself. So chances are he’s just told “Jared and Ackles will be working x amount of days out of x amount of days this year, make it work”

Did he? That is interesting. Im purely speculating of course, but I wonder if they axed him to make room for Mark P money wise. Yes, I know they made Alex/Jack a regular this year, but I’d imagine a young actor like Alexander would have cost considerably less than an established actor like Mark Shepherd who had been with the show in one form or another for eight years.

Going to reply in the Superacting thread.

I can’t remember the source, but I am fairly certain I’ve read somewhere that they negotiate contracts with the WB rather than the CW. So chances are we’ve never even heard of whoever they negotiate the deals with.

I don’t think they can necessarily dictate the specifics e.g “I want Dean!Michael and I want it to last for exactly ten episodes and Dean must display abilities x, y and Z” . However, the show lives or dies with J2, and I do think they’re in the position to make more generic demands such as “I want an action/supernatural based storyline for Dean and it needs to last at least half a season”

My opinion is pretty much what @DittyDotDot says above. I think the Jared remark you’re referring to is what I meant. I took that to mean something is holding up negotiations (maybe J2 want shorter seasons, maybe they want even more time off and the WB is reluctant since they get 4/8 days off as it is, maybe one or both of them were negotiating for better storyline) and they were encouraging fans to remind the network how much they want the show Renewed to strengthen their position at the negotiating table. That sounds horrible. I now have bad visions of Misha or the WB opting not to renew his contract sometime and he doesn’t get a proper closing storyline just a “oh Cas decided to go back to heaven full time” mention. Since they’d be finished filming the current season by that point :s

I think @DittyDotDot was adding to what you were saying. They’ll usually negotiate a new contract during the final season of the current contract. For instance Jared and Ackles relatively recently stated* at cons they hadn’t finished negotiations for season 14 yet. * I can’t remember exactly when this happened, but I believe they said it at a con sometime in February.

Because I’m easily bored. Here are the episodes so far this season ranked from highest to lowest. The first set is ranked by Unrounded rating and second set is ranked by total viewer. 18-149 Demo 13x01 Lost and Found: 0.721 13x16 ScoobyNatural: 0.705* 13x02 The Rising Son: 0.662 13x06 Tombstone: 0.659 13x04 The Big Empty: 0.645 13x03 Patience: 0.641 13x10 Wayward Sisters: 0.602 13x05 Advanced Thanatology: 0.596 13x14 Good Intentions: 0.568 13x11 Breakdown: 0.566 13x13 Devil’s Bargain: 0.566 13x12 Various & Sundry Villains: 0.560 13x09 The Bad Place: 0.555 13x08 The Scorpion and the Frog: 0.55 13x15 A Most Holy Man: 0.520 13x07 War of the Worlds: 0.341* * War of the Worlds aired on Thanksgiving and won’t count towards the final Nielsen figures. It will be counted as a Holiday Special. * The final Unrounded ratings for ScoobyNatural have not been released yet. The figure above is the preliminary Unrounded rating. Total Viewers 13x01 Lost and Found: 2.10 13x16 ScoobyNatural: 2.03 13x03 Patience: 1.93 13x11 Breakdown: 1.93 13x02 The Rising Son: 1.90 13x06 Tombstone: 1.89 13x10 Wayward Sisters: 1.85 13x04 The Big Empty: 1.82 13x13 Devil’s Bargain: 1.81 13x09 The Bad Place: 1.74 13x08 The Scorpion and the Frog: 1.73 13x05 Advanced Thanatology: 1.71 13x12 Various & Sundry Villains: 1.68 13x15 A Most Holy Man: 1.66 13x14 Good Intentions: 1.61 13x07 War of the Worlds: 1.24*

That could actually be considered a joke about the attitudes of tv at the time. I remember reading once, back in the 60s married TV couples actually slept on seperate beds to avoid the suggestion of sexy times lol

I think every season is contract season now? I think J2 were initially contracted for 6 seasons (6 seasons seems to be the norm for any show. Of course many don’t make it that far) Renewed for season 7 Renewed for 8-10 in one go* Have been renewing on an annual basis ever since. * I’m not entirely sure if they bulked Renewed for seasons 8-10. They may have just renegotiated their contracts annually since season 7.

Apparently there was a 13x22 scene between Dean and Cas, which was made private. They put up curtains and other things to block Misha and Ackles from sight. Could this be the moment Dean says yes to Michael (or whoever it is)?

Bitterness & Potential UO As someone who loves time travel and general what if fanfic I have to admit I’ve been disappointed by the incorporation of AW. For me the best thing about these storylines is the opportunity to see where our beloved characters could have gone, which we didn’t get on show. For instance: + Sam and Dean: Instead of killing them off in AU world (or wiping their existence) why not make this a world where Sam said yes to Lucifer and never regained control? Or why not make it a world where they both said yes and the big battle occurred? + Castiel. What happened to him in the Apocalypse World? Did he still rebel without Dean’s influence, since s8 retconned him as always being troublesome? Did he stay and continue to be heavens perfect little soldier? Is he alive? Is he dead? If he’s dead under what circumstances? + Old time favourites such as Jo, Ellen, Rufus, Anna, Ruby etc. Where are they in this world? Overall, to me the writers have failed on a character front. They neither used it as an excuse to bring back old favourites or provide us with a different ‘what if’ take on the current main cast. All we’ve really got out of it was AU Bobby (and Jim always makes his seasonal appearance diminishing the specialness of AU Bobby) or AUs barely recognisable to their earth one counterparts such as Zachariah.

Agreed! While it technically works within the rules of the show it would be an awful decision! Mark S is Crowley just as Misha is Cas.

What’s your prediction about Cas’ role for the remainder of the season?

According to Jessica’s spoiler sheet it is. Episode 20 is Glynn’s Episode 21 is Beren’s Episode 22 is BuckLemmings Episode 23 is Dabbs. On an unrelated note while looking up those writers I found the following re the regulars appearances up to episode 22. Misha - 14* (12 eps speaking) (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22) Alex - 9. (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 14, 18, 20, 21, 22) Mark - 8. (1, 2, 7, 12, 13, 18, 21, 22) Interestingly if one counts the non speaking appearances as proper appearances this season will either tie season 5 for the most Cas appearances or possibly beat it by 1 if he appears in episode 23. However, if like me you dont count a corpse as a proper appearance (episode one) or opening his eyes for all of two seconds (episode 3) then he’ll either narrowly beat last seasons episode count or go back up to the usual 13 of seasons 10 and 11. I also found it interesting neither Mark P or Alex will get anywhere near the 12 Mark S used to get. I’m assuming that’s due to budgetary limitations as a result of having three regulars instead of 2.

Personally, I agree with @MysteryGuest, based on what we’ve seen so far, Dean probably set up the room on his own and didn’t tell Cas about it due to wanting it to be a surprise, or simply due to Cas’ absence depending on how long he worked on setting it up. Like @MysteryGuest said I think hed have mentioned Cas had Cas contributed to the set up. However, the rest of you have offered some reasonable points for why Cas would have known so if they drop a line in a future episode which reveals Cas was involved I wouldn’t call foul lol. Although, honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the room was purely to facilitate ScoobyNatural and we never hear of it again.

@catrox14 @SueB I’ve rewatched the episode and decided to retract my complaint and take it as a compliment rather than an insult :) I’m fairly certain it’s impossible for this to be the case. Hadn’t Cas just returned from weeks in Syria and Dean only received the tv and the idea for the fortress of Deanitude in the opener that took place a day or two before the ScoobyNatural adventure?

Yes, what I get for posting while watching tv lol.

Blasphemy! He’s Cas’ adopted father! He’s totally a part of the gang!

When did he refer to Dean as an ant? I’m not disagreeing he did I just can’t remember and when it happens matters IMO particularly when discussing Cas who starts off quite alien and unaware of what is and isn’t appropriate. Yes, he was wrong to call Sam an abomination and I’ve said that in the past. Although, to be fair, that was said back in season 5 when he and Sam still weren’t particularly close and Castiel was still quite ignorant over human customs. So while it was wrong of him to call Sam an abomination I wouldn’t count it as bad as it would be if he called him an abomination now.