Wayward Son

Hopefully I’ll have an opportunity to post more detailed thoughts later, but I really enjoyed that episode. Castiel’s characterisation was the best we’ve seen in ages and he was actually allowed to be a badass! I also enjoyed the Samwena scenes in particular the bond their shared trauma created between them. The only negative was the ridiculousness overpowering of Dean. He can take out Sam effortlessly with one punch and then later again in the street? Yeah, right. I’m happy to discuss the last more in bitch vs Jerk, but to be clear im not saying Dean couldn’t win in a fight against Sam. Just that it wouldn’t take one punch to do so.

Watching the episode now and Dean can knock Sam out in one punch? What a load of crap!

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is yet another episode with a blink and you miss it appearance of Castiel i.e. we see him in Asmodeus’ jail for a brief scene maybe two.

She states that she wished she had been able to get to know him, he could have gotten to know her and his father :) That was my take on it as well and I’m glad that William was able to acknowledge Scully’s word and in his own way assure her that he holds no ill will against her. ... General thoughts on the episode I found it an enjoyable episode overall and preferred it to last weeks efforts. My favourite parts were definitely Scully’s talk in the morgue, Gillian played her grief so perfectly, Mulder being called Bob in the coffee shop and the final scene. I thought Spender told her that his adopted name was Van De Camp. I don’t think she was told anything more than that let alone his actual address?

I’m currently finishing up what I jokingly call the mega ultimate rewatch! I’ve rewatched every season, every special featurette included on the blu rays and read every episode thread here on previously. I just have the commentaries for Bloodlines and the Episodes commented on for s10-12 to go and then I’m finished! Since I’ve been rewatching since April it’s about bloody time! Lol I plan to take a break from tv watching (outside my normal shows) to recover from this rewatch ;) And then I intend to begin a first time watch of the Arrowverse early March.

I have a somewhat different theory to you @SueB, I speculated from the start that Kaia had not been killed and that the figure we saw at the end was her possessed by one of the creatures from the bad place. IMO such a twist would not break the existing rules of the show. We've had instances of characters appearing to be dead but actually aren't (Sam in Red Meat) and possession being used as a method of healing the host (Sam throughout the course of 9A). So I think Kaia being at the death of Death and then possessed isn't too wild a spec on my part. I'm leaning even more towards this now that it has been stated Yadi too was offered a series lead contract. Random note but since the Bad Place is not just a different world, but a completely different universe this is one occasion where I wouldn't care if they threw canon completely out the window with these creatures and introduced say Vampires which turned to dust when staked in the heart Buffy style. That's a silly example by the way. I'm not actually saying I want dust vampires. Just making the point that it's a different universe which could easily be portrayed as holding different rules to the one we know :)

I think we can agree to disagree. I'm just saying that personally I'd be more interested in reading a post written by someone who has seen the episode, even if their view of it completely opposes my opinion, than someone who hasn't seen the episode, even if I too found it a crappy episode. Personally, posts beginning with "I didn't watch this one..." are the only posts I'm likely to just skip past upon reading that sentence. Agreed! You really put it better than I could have :)

Thanks :) . I’m likely missing out some important things as @gonzosgirrl noted in the post above since I’m not pausing while listening and just taking note of what stands out. So I’m probably missing something said while note taking. So I’d definitely recommend others listen too when they get a chance ;)

The difference IMO is that I didn’t comment on the show while I wasn’t watching. As I explained in my post I kept an eye on spoilers throughout season 9, but didn’t actively post as at that point I only intended it to be a short term break. I then completely disassociated myself from the show and fandom throughout seasons 10 and 11. I did not spend those two and a half years posting weekly about how something I was no longer watching sucked. I honestly don’t see the comparison between my decision to give up all things show related for two and a half years and people who are not watching episode(s) and still feel the need to write about how it sucked. I’m not commenting on the actual decision to not watch. I’m talking about people who then go on to write big long posts on how the episode sucked when they didn’t even watch to judge for themselves. IMO a transcript only tells half the story. A lot of an episodes quality is determined by the acting, the directing, the music and the use of various visual effects.

What Id consider even worse than hate watching is posts beginning with “I didn’t watch this episode but....” followed by a list of ways the episode failed. IMO if someone didn’t watch an episode then they shouldn’t comment on it as a transcript or a friends personal opinion only tells half the story at best. At least a hate watcher has actually watched the material to judge that they hate it. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Main Takes from The End • The original conception of The End was “Sam and Dean meet their clones”. However, they couldn’t break the idea, due to its stupidity, and they ultimately made the leap to time travel. • Kripke and Edlund were quite proud of themselves for being smart and emphasising time is cyclical. Singer didn’t get it and when they resorted to drawing a diagram Singer dryly commented “are you going to draw this for the audience too?” • They were originally going to go for an even darker fate for Castiel. He would have gone totally mad and spent his time in a dark room, in Bobby’s house, killing a cockroach and bringing it back to life. • Kripke and Edlund reiterated the writers belief the success of the angel mythology lies with Misha. Had the actor playing Cas sucked they’d have quickly shut down the story like the burning down of the roadhouse which didn’t work for them. • Bob Singer thinks they should do an episode starring all the people Sam and Dean have stolen cars from over the years. Main Take from Clap Your Hands If You Believe • They’re all quite amused by the overuse of the name Patrick in the opening scene. • Bob Singer thinks sometimes the financial limitations of television allows for them to tell a story better than the movies. The reason being it requires them to discuss the best way to do the effect and whether it’s essential to the story, while a movie will just spend a lot of money without these discussions, and they risk the story being lost. • They’ve a lot of praise for Jared, Jensen, and the director of the episode. While the episode was funny in the script, some of the funniest moments in the script came from J2. Gamble said the “have you got a bigger cup?” Line Was all Jared. • Bob Singer thinks the main limitation of Jared’s acting is his attempt at playing short. While Gamble thinks both J’s main limitation is playing ugly. • Dean vs Tinkerbell is Sera Gamble’s favourite part of the episode. • They’re amazed by the designs Jerry Wanek and Serge come up with week after week. Sera commented on how she feels the show is a success because their team is amazing. • “fight the fairies” was 100% Edlund. • Sera thinks she would have gone insane without Bob Singer as show running is a lot of work! Main Takes from The French Mistake •Kripke wanted lots of death including volunteering for his own, random crew members would email the writers asking to be killed off and Misha was particularly enthusiastic about presenting himself in a bad light. Main Takes from Slash Fiction • The day they filmed Levi!Winchester’s robbing the bank and killing the workers was the day Jared told the crew Genevieve was pregnant. He actually worded it as “we are pregnant” and Jensen joked about it being their pregnancy. • They recycled the basement of Bobby’s house and used it as the basement of Rufus’ cabin. • Jensen was the one who cast the actor playing Chet as they filmed The Girl Next Door first. • According to Jared he is 6’5. • The scene where Sam and Dean meet Frank is the first time Jared and Jensen meet Kevin. They felt it added authenticity to the scene as they were genuinely giving their first reactions to the character of Frank. • In the script the stand in cars were referred to as POS Car Interior and Exterior. • Dean singing in the impala was not originally in the script. It was in an early version, taken out, but John Showalter suggested they just go with it. • Jensen’s sister and brother in law were extras in this episode. They were sat to the right of the Levi!Winchester’s as they robbed Conor’s diner. S.E Hinton was also in that scene. She was sat at the table behind them. • Jared says “atta boy” in response to Bobby kissing Jody! • It was important to Jared and Jensen that Sam’s anger was properly explained i.e. he was more angry about Dean lying and keeping secrets from him than the fact he killed a monster. Main Takes from Death’s Door • One of Steven Williams and Jim Beaver’s favourite things about the show is the variety. Unlike other shows the characters don’t all act and talk the same. • The shaking in the church scene is literally one of the camera men shaking their camera. • The Church scene was the end of a very long day and Jim did not enjoy running. He stated it looks like he only ran 3 steps on camera, but it was actually a lot more. • Steven Williams only learnt Rufus was Jewish during this episode. When Jim Beaver mentioned they’d dealt with it before he stated “I said it but I didn’t realise what I was saying”. • For Steven Williams acting is all about intent. If you have that then your acting is going to be solid at the very least. He believes acting isn’t about being a good liar, but finding the truth in the writing. • The kid playing young Dean had no interest in throwing the ball with Jim. He just wanted to talk about hockey. • Jim says Jared and Jensen are a joy to work with! He credits them with the tone on the set of supernatural as the attitude of the lead almost always determines the overall mood of a television set. • Jim Beaver loved being able to play out Bobby explicitly stating that he sees Sam and Dean as his sons. He views the Sam, Dean and Bobby dynamic as one of the most important parts of the show up until that point Main Takes from Survival of the Fittest • Rachel Miner was one of Sera Gamble’s favourite characters. • Sera admits the main reason they made Cas crazy at the end of the season is due to her wanting to let us enjoy Cas without him overshadowing Sam and Dean by being too powerful. • Bobby’s S7 storyline was a precautionary tale of what can happen to hunters who are too dedicated to their craft. Sera sees the supporting cast as extensions of Sam and Dean and hopes they’ve now learnt not to come back as ghosts. • Sam and Dean spying on Roman Inc was originally scripted to be binoculars through windows, but due to budget and time they changed it to the security camera feeds. • They felt the need to reformulate ectoplasm for season seven as it was too similar to Levithian goo. • Gamble and Kripke argued for years over whether the season finale or the second last episode was harder to write. She maintained it was the second last, while he thought it was the last. Now that she has written both she believes they’re equally difficult in different ways. The finale has the challenge of concluding everything and setting up next season while the penultimate has to set up for the finale while still being entertaining in its own right. • Sera feels Bobby choosing to stay with Sam and Dean as a ghost was in character for him, as he has never left them in the middle of something before. • They chose to not show Bobby disappearing on screen as they felt the image of him burning up in pain would not be a respectful ending for the character. • Sera felt it was extremely important that Cas and Dean discuss the unresolved issues between them due to Cas’ betrayal. She felt she couldn’t write them charging in as a team if they didn’t talk it out first. ¥ One of Sera’s favourite things about Rachel’s take on Meg is the fact she plays her as annoyed by everything and waiting for everyone to catch up with her. • The nickname ‘moose’ was made up by Mark Sheppard. Main Takes from Hunteri Heroici • They director often has to change the way characters are written as it is difficult to find people who could appear remotely intimidating next to the super tall J2. • The actor who played Amelia’s father also appeared in Phantom Traveller. • “Who gives a” was Jensen improvisation. Main Takes from As Time Goes By • This episode did not begin as a huge Winchester family mythology episode. The original concept was a hotel which existed outside of time. • This was the very first episode directed by Ladouceur. • The idea of Henry’s time travel spell being one where blood leads to blood was proposed by Andrew Dabb. • Ass hat was a very beloved word in season eight due to Robbie Thompson. • Adam Glass claims he got the concept of ‘Knight of Hell’ from Dante’s Inferno. • “The Yodas to our Jedis” - This was a Robbie Thompson joke. Apparently any Star Wars references are a Robbie Thompson joke. • The “you can’t fit a computer in this room” gag came from Edlund. Carver then jokingly asked Glass did he write any of the episode himself? • Carver thinks this episode was not only a great Winchester family mythology but a part of Sam’s personal arc. He began the season as someone who had removed himself from the family business and these events are a reminder of why Sam should reinvest. • Adam Glass thinks Jared and Jensen really killed the final scene at Henry’s grave. Bob Singer added “for those who don’t know show biz jargon killing it is a good thing” • Originally they were going to end the episode with a flashback to young John either sleeping or waking to discover Henry wasn’t there. However, they ultimately decided it’d be more poignant to end the episode with Sam and Dean’s grief in the modern day. Main Takes from Everybody Hates Hitler • The actor who played the golem was also the ghost in Ghostfacers. • The bookshelves in the bunker easily pop out and can be moved around in case the crew need to insert additional cameras. • Jared and Jensen started messing with Adam Rose right away. It’s a good sign because if they’re messing with you then they like you. •The character of Adam was originally written with Seth Green in mind, but scheduling didn’t work out. • Ben thought Jensen played Dean’s reaction to Aaron as a rom-com type of fluster and it showed this potential for Dean to find love in all places. • Scrigga confirmed Jared is 6’5 and Jensen is 6’2-6’3. • The golem pacing while Aaron talked to Sam and Dean was meant to remind us of a dog guarding the perimeter. • Ben Edlund stated at one point they were considering a spin off based on Aaron and the golem after the episode came together and they saw how well the actors worked with each other. He joked it would be called G.I. Jew. • Phil Scriggia casually stated to Jared “it’s a cold night isn’t it?” And Jared decided to ad lib Sam warming his hand as the nazi corpse burned. Edlund and Scrigga both loved it. • Scriggia loves directing layered scenes such as the one where Sam and Eckheart are having a conversation while Dean and Aaron are having a non-verbal conversation of their own. • Dean switching from beer to scotch was symbolic. It was meant to show us the brothers weren’t just boys with beer in the back of a car, but had become men of letters.

There was indeed a scene like that as I watched it recently. I think @catrox14 posted a YouTube video of it in the episode thread for Taxi Driver.

Oh no I definitely would not have done that. I kept up with the show via reading, but not posting on, forums for the rest of s9 as I originally intended to take a break rather than quit watching. When I realised I had no interest in catching up on what I’d missed I ended up having nothing else to do with the show or the fandom (outside of a few offline friends who watch the show) until I picked up watching again the summer before season 12 :) . I agree life is too short for wasting large amounts of time on a show you hate.

This I can relate to and pretty much how my longest break from Supernatural went. For me I’d say indifference is something I’m more likely to watch a show over than plots I hate. I HATED season 8 and had several rage quit moments throughout the season in particular after Torn and Frayed and The Great Escapist. However, despite my protests of “i hate this show im done...” there I was watching the next week anyway. However, When Season 9 displayed more of the same I grew tired and decided I needed a break so I didn’t watch Bad Boys immediately. It wasn’t a dislike of the previous episode. I actually quite like Heaven Can’t Wait. However, due to my dislike of S8’s portrayal of Dean and my aversion to his actions in 9x01, a Dean centric episode was simply not something I felt interested in. What was originally intended as a few week break ended up being a 2.5 year break. I had quit all together and it was only hearing raving reviews about season eleven, from several trusted friends, that I decided to give the show another shot the summer before season 12. Some days I find myself regretting returning and others I am glad I did. It depends on that weeks episode I guess ;) * This post isn’t about Dean bashing, but sharing a story of my thought process when I came the closest ever to quitting Supernatural. For anyone interested when I finally did watch it I actually found Bad Boys to be an enjoyable and well written episode. It just wasn’t one I was ready for at the time due to general fatigue with the show. Hi, fellow charmed fan here -waves- As a matter of interest, what episode do you now watch as your “final episode”?

Excellent post :) . I wish I could like it more than once!

I think in some cases people find it hard to let go especially if the show is one they used to like before their current issues began. Personally, I used to find it difficult to give up a show once I started, but like you said life is too short for that and I’ve gotten much better at letting things I dislike go. As a follow up question to yours... how long do you give a show you once enjoyed to recover from bad writing before giving up on it? These days I’d say I’ll give a relatively new show (2-3 seasons) half a season before I’m done and an older season 1-1.5 seasons. Basically it it’s 5+ seasons it’s has earned the right to an off season, so bar something truly offensive I’ll stick it out. However, if the next season shows no signs of improvement then I’ll drop it.

Well it could be, as others have suggested, she gives the appearance of being an ally but actually orchasterated the whole scenario for her own ends. The blurb is unlikely to give it away if the writers intended her treachery to be seen as a big twist :)

Thanks for clarifying. I thought they believed she was dead, but @gonzosgirrl‘s query about whether Sam would contact her for help or not had me worried there was something I’d missed.

Do the boys know Rowena is alive? I thought they didn’t and assumed she would be the one to reach them out to them somehow.

Unrounded Ratings Supernatural ................... 0.567 ... (0.581 ... 0.553) Arrow .............................. 0.419 ... (0.434 ... 0.403) I think we might be in for a downward adjustment :( . We might have extra viewers, but they aren’t coming from the 18-49 demo!

ETA: @Morrigan2575 beat me to it by what must have been seconds LOL

It doesn’t matter the source. They’re both leads and should be featured equally on media publications related to the show. I guess we now know who Dabb and the other PTB is telling people to promote the most.

Where is Sam and Jared? Why is there only a pic and a tag of Jensen in that tweet? Aren’t they both supposed to be leads?

I just watched last nights X File episode! Hiliarious and would have fit in as an Edlund SN episode back in the day xD

My personal theory is that the figure we saw at the end is not a doppelganger, but a creature from the other world possessing Kaia’s body. They could either make it a straight up corpse evasion or state she was on the brink of death yet, but hadn’t actually died yet. If I’m right then my belief is that the creature is channeling / enhancing Kaia’s natural abilities and using them in a way she is not normally capable of. Posting in here because this is entirely a theory of mine and not influenced by spoilers.