Rorysmom

Could be. Could be not. Time will tell. :) I think these shows prove the psychology of what can happen when a person is presented with multiple options to find a connection. I won't even say love. Just a connection. There are many people that we can all connect with under the right circumstances. But like I said, after the fog of that lifted and she had another response to her emotions and reasoning to compare it to, she was able to think clear(ly) (er) again.

I don't agree that the situations are the same. But that's ok. I don't think she literally meant as Greg drove off in the SUV that she stopped thinking about him and her feelings vanished. But I do feel that Katie had time to process how Greg treated her after the fog of him leaving wore off. She also had Blake's reaction to her Bachelorette duties and her multitude of emotions to compare to Greg's reaction. Blake understood and respected the process. And his love for her kept him there. That helped her to right herself and her feelings. If Greg did become the Bachelor, he would absolutely not cut his journey short for a bachelorette. Not. I feel very, very sure about that. None of them should have to, actually.

Auntie was letting her biatch flag fly, wasn't she? She was letting him KNOW! I had no problem with Greg exclaiming his love for her. I doubt that her "I just love looking at you" was her immediate reaction. I wondered if it was edited that way. Regardless, he saw how flustered, thrown off, apologetic, and reassuring she was immediately after that. Even if he didn't get the exact phrase out of her that she herself said she wanted to save until final day, he got every assurance but that. I agree with Katie that if he truly had deep, genuine feelings for her, he wouldn't have turned on a dime that night nor kept it going after sleeping on it. Girl was on her knees pleading to him, and he withheld for whatever his reasons were. But it resulted in her being cast aside by someone who loved her less than 10 hours before. And I'm sure production came to him and explained again the parameters of the show to him. Either he was acting or he has some relationship maturing to do. And the premise of the show is that they are indeed there for *her*. So he can miss me with all his "you're not up here and I'm down here" BS. Because if *he* were the Bachelor, he'd be doing what was "right for him," too. TRUST.

We'll see, Elizzikra! That might be a plot point. I kind of think of it also in terms of the show Lost. Caretaking of the island does mean giving up something, but the choice is worth it for each person's reasons. Ruby's reasons, to me, were both renewed health and also to be of service to others just as she had received.

Ruby said goodbye to her family before coming to FI. She said she was hoping to die there. She'd done all she and her family were needing.

I was here for her laying into Greg. He did treat her really badly, IMO, and he did feel like he needed special consideration on top of the reassurances she gave within the context of the show. He hit her with a whole lot of "if you really loved me, you would haves..." Not cool. Continued hoops and shifting goalposts. He knows what her obligations were. I'm sure they talked quite a lot, and the show also explained to him what had to unfold. I don't believe he really wanted to end up with her at the end. And I love how flustered he was (or pretended to be) at just how angry she was, irrespective of her happiness with Blake. I have no doubt that he has heard much the same from other girlfriends. I hope Katie and Blake are right for each other. She was very adamant at every interaction with these guys that she was there for long-term commitment.

I loved this first episode. I watched the original version as a kid in real time (heh), and I remember them being a little cheesy and a weaving in little morality tales, too. Your logical or surface fantasy may not always be what you really want. Christine's fantasy to eat it all without gaining weight was surface. She wanted to feel full, satisfied, and whole. I thought Bellamy and the show did a great job. I also loved the couple and how Roarke gains her assistant. And it was lovely seeing the altar to the original. I do remember there were episodes where we were introduced to Roarke's love of his life. This Roarke is totally believable. I'll be watching!

Chile...

Cash literally, like literally, told the girls that she still wanted Cinco. I'm sure Charlie picked up on that. Back off, T.

I thought the middle lady was Michelle Pfeiffer!

Maybe the other ladies thought Sutton was buying Garcelle's gift because they are so close and didn't think she needed or would have wanted to be included. I know I would have. They are (show?) besties.

Sutton is going to make me cheer for Erika snarling at her. Damn. Erika's interactions with Sutton are a lot like Crystal's only one more season in. Sutton has been playing this role of gifting in exchange for friendship and coddling/sympathy/protection for a while, probably since childhood. Whether she was rich or not. That's her way to gain a foothold. I don't know how much of it is an act or just her personality, but she definitely falls back on her Southern charm, demure, fragility, real quick. She weilds it very effectively when threatened. This is her way of fighting and gaining power. Seen it a lot. Seen the Crystal's be denigrated for it, too. And she absolutely has been described like this before by others. That's why she reacts so strongly to it. She thought she'd be more established in a second season, but clearly she isn't as connected to the others as she hoped, and her base level insecurities are surfacing again against the one person she thought she'd rank higher than. And I have no doubt that had Garcelle been the newbie, she'd have treated her the same way she's treating Crystal. So don't be fooled just because Garcelle is black. Garcelle works in an industry where she's had to be diplomatic and more forgiving just to work. Crystal hasn't. So I won't compare how they choose to respond to Sutton except to say, if Sutton is really her friend, Garcelle needs to check her.

So Sutton is clearly not ready to let it go. First with "jokes" and then anger after KYLE, not Crystal, brings it up again. Crystal was like, what? I thought we were done. Not feeling the ladies trying to modulate how Crystal should have felt based on their friendship with Sutton. That's not your place and really demeaning.

Well, as a white person, it doesn't get presented to you in a way that has offensive tendencies. She explained it thoroughly. And it's not "just now" considered racist. Like the other housewives, this is the first time you've heard of it having a racist connection. What you do with it now is up to you, I guess. That's the friendship comfort level thing I mentioned before.

Now that you know, because it isn't only Eboni who feels this, are you receiving it and willing to use a different word?

I'm so glad Eboni has been added. I think she can bring the housewives fun and some awareness to the mix. I will give her a bit of a "lecture" pass this season because she is the first black woman whose experience none of these ladies know in any way other than what they hear on the news or "news" or through their charitable works. Truly, the full black experience lives outside of the status quo experience, and it would do everyone well to just listen because they don't know it. If you want to have genuine friendships with a black person/people, you have simply got to do this. Generally speaking, in the black community, there is a lot of pent up anxiety, frustration, hurt, and feelings of betrayal from people we thought were our friends only to find out that friendship only goes to the edge of their comfort and, yes, privilege. And not for nothing, this was happening at the height of the election madness? Props to Eboni for that ALONE.

Crystal's sigh and measured tone when she said, "I think it's late..." and then ended the conversation was a variation on EVERY conversation a minority has had with someone who wasn't willing to just LISTEN to an experience or POV that the white person has not had. It's not about you right now. I'm not accusing you. I'm not even speaking to you. And... why are you crying? Damn.

Fantastic episode. Acted well by everyone. Great writing.

Tiffany expresses herself so well, and she explained her upset very clearly. Changing schools that many times + being a minority + seeking constant approval from your parents has definitely done a number on her. I love how she said that when she hit the water, it immediately gut checked her and showed her how, once again, she was acting in-authentically to be accepted. And when she said to D'andra that she's better off being "Robot Tiffany," my heart broke for her--the child and the adult.

Ben reminds me of Tigger.

Alexander Pope and LuvMyShows, I agree about Tayshia's reaction. It has been a lot. I think she was taken aback by the turn of the conversation. But you could tell from her uncontrollable tears when she started to express herself that her emotions were just below the surface. She, like many of us over the years, have done a lot of compartmentalizing and flattening of our race around people and situations that were less than welcoming or unconcerned about knowing us deeply or fully. To hear Black Lives Matter shouted so simply, strongly, and full of pride and righteous anger had to have been stirring for a biracial girl from the OC--one of very few minorities in her orbit at least. And on the flipside, to likely see friends and neighbors have an equally strong but negative reaction to that same statement. It's like, "ok, so I see how you really feel about me and people who look like me." It is has been deeply hurtful, and it feels like a betrayal. Processing that change in both deep and superficial friendships and relationships has likely been *a lot.* I'm sure Ivan bringing it up in relation to his brother was genuine. But I bet he also wanted to know how what was happening had affected her because that would be important to him. I haven't watched a Bachelor/Bachelorette show in years. Years! I'm more in the Bravo sphere. I am glad my daughter made me watch. Clare/Dale! Bro-ships! Bennett! Smokeshow! It's been a gift, I tell ya!

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I took a break from RHofBH after the LVP pile on. I didn't even finish the season. Rewatching the first season reminded me just how much LVP came to Kyle's defense and how genuine their friendship was. Whether it was LVP's time to go or not, it shouldn't have gone down the way it did. Kyle should regret the end of that friendship. I started watching again because I wanted to see how Garcelle would do. I think she is doing well, and I hope she stays--and gets to highlight her girlfriends more (especially Sheree). Loved her in her other show. But wow, *this* is the Erika I'd hoped for from the beginning. I was so looking forward to her presence. But she got caught up in defending Yolanda, being frosty to LVP, conspiring with the other girls to ice LVP out, and generally being closed off. Her relationship with Tom has always seemed genuine, even if not what was expected, and it is good to see her/the show showcasing the affection she has for him. She may not be Erika Jayne *hot* for him (but who knows), but she definitely loves and respects him. I can't help but wonder how different the last few seasons would have been had she been this person. For me, it is a major missed opportunity. BH was my favorite. Sigh.

Long time lurker on this thread. Too bad this is why I am posting. I have already stopped watching. Although I love her, I could have enjoyed RHofBH without LVP. But the way this pack went about it, with their fake and absurd outrage, scheming, and ugliness made me not want to watch them. It is a shame. BH and NYC have been my favorites from the beginning. Blergh.

I agree with you somewhat. I think what you are saying hits on a larger point that black folks, (racial minorities in general, but a bit different for black Americans) are often times reacting to the larger white society's actions. Condemnation or praise, it doesn't matter. In Earn's case, he did excel in school because he is naturally gifted and had parents who nurtured that. They probably also did have The Talk with him. So here you are, doing what you are naturally gifted with: intelligence, DRY humor, wit, droll manner, etc., all those things that white society is shown to possess via "indie movies," "smart TV comedies," and in interactions as being inherent to their personality. "Oh, you got that joke?" kind of thing. So when you are that "special one," and are recognized for it, it can feel unsettling, disconcerting, maddening, and accepting. You are being seen as an individual--not a stereotype or group. I can see how it would seem that you/Earn, maybe without even fully acknowledging it, find yourself separating in a way that seems "bougie," "new black," etc. But, we see that he is faced with the same racism, just in a different way. Which, in turn, he reacts to in a way that does makes his character very ironic.