pixelcat

I thought that the door itself was invisible, and just a portal to his underground bunker. I assumed it was underground since there were no windows. I always wondered how they got back out.

Was zooming around the shots of the Wall of Weird. It's interesting to see what's on the board, but it's more interesting to me what's left out. There are several pictures of Dean in the "porn guy" fight, including one showing his black eyes, and another that shows a close-up of the First Blade. Sam's Stanford transcript is there. Dean wanted in Florida and Connecticut for credit card fraud. Sam's birth certificate (for some reason I thought this was John's at first) with all that misinformation on it. Something to do with the Impala, although I couldn't make it out. Leviathans and a link to Richard Roman Enterprises. Some kind of red box over part of Nebraska (maybe that part of the map is Kansas, and the box is where the Bunker is?) But there is nothing about Azazel/special children. No Mark of Cain. Nothing on angels, other than Castiel. Nothing about any other associates the Winchesters might know (Bobby, Jo, Ellen, Rufus, Donna, Jodi). And not a thing about Crowley, which I find the oddest part of all. Makes me wonder if they even know about him.

I like this episode more for the "I Am A Douchebag" song than the episode itself. Was reading over in the "Devil May Care" thread (S9), and catrox posted something that hinted at Dean in Hell was sexually abused (and if I misread, my apologies to you, what my eyes read and my brain hears don't always line up). Thought on that, realized it would make sense (it is Hell after all), then came back to this episode. Watching The Chief scene, and Dean's expressions during it, made me really uncomfortable this time around. I guess it's a good thing I tend to skip this episode half the time.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Ruby was working with Zachariah? Her smug smile after Sam listens to the VM, when she didn't have the the power to change it. How would she know what was said, unless Zach told her he'd make sure Sam got every last little push he needed.

Sort of spoilers?

I think it was referenced by Lilith's hallucination, it was that caused him to get infected. At least in Dean's mind anyway. I've watched this episode a bunch, and I feel really stupid that today was the FIRST TIME I noticed that. Dean looks ready to confess to Sam what he really saw, then Sam's eyes flash, and he changes his mind. Creepy indeed!

It was just a thought that blindsided me halfway through my last season 4 rewatch, before I even got to this episode or remembered what Alastair said. I think it was when Dean was confessing to Sam at the end of "Family Remains" and somehow my mind jumped to that conclusion. But your question made me actually figure out why it did that in the first place, and I think I have two reasons: Alastair needed blood shed in Hell by a righteous man. He doesn't specify how much blood, or from how many people, so I'm going with it only takes one to break the seal. Once he'd convinced Dean to start just to get his own torment to stop, I imagine Dean would still have a lot of hesitation his first time. So Alastair, being the devious SOB he is, chose someone that Dean knew and had a lot of anger and resentment towards. After all, Bela not only tried to kill him twice (come on, did she really think Gordon just wanted to talk to them?), but she also stole the only thing he believed could've possibly saved him from his fate. First time is always the hardest, and I believe Bela up there would've pushed Dean just enough to make him go through with it. On the flip side, putting someone up in front of Dean he knew would also make it that much harder. I believe Dean felt guilt at what he was doing even in Hell, despite enjoying it. If Dean was able to go through with it for the first time to someone he knew, then Alastair had that much more control over him, could twist him just a little further, and everyone after that would end up being a little easier. For me, this also begs the question: after the first seal was broken, why did Alastair leave him where he was? He could've easily put Dean back on the rack, since his job was done. I'm going with what I said above, that it put Dean even more under Alastair's control when he was doing the torture instead of being on the receiving end. Put him exactly where Alastair wanted him. But as always YMMV.

This right here: Convinced me that Dean's first soul on the rack he had to torture was Bela.

Sounds like we need a road trip! Actually did a little looking around, the convent was based on St. Mary's College in Ilchester, which was torn down in 2006. Wikipedia article on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary's_College_(Ilchester) And two sites with some pictures and other info: http://hellhouse.ellicottcity.net/ http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/hell-house-altar

Sounds like we need a road trip!

After reading all the angry comments on the"Brother's Keeper" thread, I need something to smile about. So, my feel good moments from S11: Form and Void: Sam pulling all the things off the shelves at the hardware store, building a homemade taser, and using a bucket to amplify the sound from his phone. Then when an infected shows up: "Can you talk? Or are you too far gone" "What?" ZAP. "Good answer." Baby: The entire episode. Highlights for me: Dean checking out Piper in the car not once but twice, putting on "Night Moves", and Sam playing along by singing altered lyrics. The girls taking Baby out for a joyride and doing donuts in the dirt (I personally think Baby had fun). Dean slamming the lid down on the growling cooler saying "I can explain that... or maybe not". Bonus badass StuntDriving!Dean with the 180. Plush: Has one of my favorite Dean moments. When Donna is telling them about the killer bunny whose head won't come off, Dean says to her, "But if you've got a wild hare..." Sam makes his 'OMG you didn't just say that' face, but Donna laughs at his joke, and Dean's face just lights up. He NEVER gets anyone (especially Sam) to laugh at his jokes The Devil in the Details: When Lucifer turns on the music, then grins and starts dancing, and Dean's 'WTF is this crap he's insane' look. Takes me back to "Is this a fight? Are we in a fight?" Into the Mystic: Mildred getting Dean to sit on the couch to appreciate the sunset Don't You Forget About Me: The dinner scene. Not so much for the stuffing their faces with food (which I think was overplayed), but the birth control conversation. Sam looks extremely uncomfortable, while Dean sits back to watch the show. His final comment to Claire "This is fun" has her laughing and nodding in agreement, while Sam gives Dean the stare of death Love Hurts: Dean winning at Rock Paper Scissors and being so pleased he doesn't even care Sam goes upstairs. The cash getting left under the cinder block to pay for the damage to the room Safe House: EVERYTHING that comes out of Rufus' mouth. My personal favorite, "Do not religiously persecute me, Bobby." Don't Call Me Shurley: "Dude, quit ironing my shirts with beer!" All In The Family: Sam's quick retrieval of his beer from Metatron We Happy Few: Lucifer's snapping of fingers, expecting to see Dean and Sam explode, and his crazy eyes' stare at Chuck when they don't Alpha and Omega: The ghost hunt at Waverly Sanitorium. Just love the last shot of them walking out, in step with each other

I agree completely AwesomeO. I think when monsters die in purgatory, they go back to their "spawn point", wherever they were first dropped in. I also think where they started has a lot to do with where they died. Why else would Dean call Benny and have him drive all that way just to get killed (instead of saving time and meeting him someplace in the middle)? He needed Benny to appear near where Sam started. I find it sad that even those monsters that were turned into monsters against their will end up there, with no chance of redemption. I mean, how cruel is it to think that Madison ended up there, after she chose to die rather than kill any more people. But to expound on the soul theory, I think that's why demons and angels aren't in purgatory. Angels have no souls, and demons ARE souls but don't HAVE souls. I think that rules out both from purgatory, so when they die they are either taken to The Empty, or just cease to exist. Since we've never seen or heard of demons (or angels for that matter) returning from death, either works. You would think that Purgatory would've wanted to spit Castiel out just as bad as Dean, since neither of them belonged there. Count me in on this!

The restaurant you like to frequent has on the menu "Short Rib Sammy". And it makes you smile EVERY TIME you see it.

Hah just rewatched the start of the episode and sure enough it says 1863. Also says Mississippi, so I just assumed the demons who were hunting Cain/protecting "The Knight" grabbed the nearest meatsuits, and being the South, it made sense to me for them to use Confederate soldiers. Granted, with all the fighting in MS in 1863 they could've grabbed soldiers from either side, but I would guess being a Confederate (or at least dressed like one) would've made traveling through the state easier/safer.

I didn't get the impression she'd been dead for millennia, it looked like around the time of the Civil War to me. So 150-ish years, give or take. But still, excellent point! And heading off topic, but

And if demons who die just end up in Hell again, then they could get back out. And we've never seen (or heard) about a dead demon coming back, or getting out of Hell.

This actually brings up a good point. We don't know what happens to demons when they die. They get exorcised, they go back to hell (and probably do not collect $200), but when they die? Angels either for that matter. I guess they cease to exist. With that logic, I'd assume if Cain died you'd be right, he wouldn't see Colette again. I'm curious what causes some to end up in purgatory, and some have the option of heaven/hell. Vampires we've seen end up in purgatory, but they were originally human. Do werewolves end up there as well? Witches? Aren't they still considered human? It's really a shame we didn't see more of purgatory, I would've liked to have seen a few familiar faces show up (Lenore, Sam's werewolf girlfriend whose name I'm forgetting, and GORDON!!) and I would've liked to know what else is in there.

This past weekend I saw a Discover Card commercial with Andy (Gabriel Tigerman): Was thinking what a perfect job that would've been for him, he could sell anyone on ANYTHING!

+1 Rulerofall, I enjoyed this one so much more than the previous episode. It made me look up just what exactly "buffalo milk" was, which led me to a site with hangover cures around the world, let's just say I'm glad Dean stuck with this one. But Dean needs to just back off of Sam, the "you're still recovering" is so worn it's threadbare. Things that amused me: Sam's expression showing Dean the stuffed weasel (?) and Dean's response Dean stating that douchebags wear sunglasses indoors, then the shop owners admitting they look like douchebags for wearing sunglasses indoors Dean carrying around a silver coin in his pocket just in case he needs to test for a skinwalker/shapeshifter/werewolf How quickly Dean picks up on Colonel barking at the hat, and that he's a witness to both crimes When Dean starts pulling the trash out of the can, I didn't even realize it the first time around he was playing fetch. Then when he jumps up to look out the window and freaks Sam out. HEY! YEAH YOU! YOU! HEY YOU! And his puppy eyes when Sam throws the trash again and he has to control himself to not retrieve it The pigeon. I laughed so hard at this scene especially when Dean pulls the gun out! Probably smart that Sam did the driving afterwards. The MOTW was a neat idea. Would some birds give him the ability to fly? But Brad gets the gold star here; instead of freaking out after seeing an ENTIRE CAT disappear down someone's gullet, he's angry: "Dude, you said you were from a perfume company!" Also, all of these spellbooks they run across during cases shouldn't be left there. Now that they have somewhere to keep them, I hope they're bringing them all back and cataloging them. You never know when you might need information on mixing baboon hearts and cheetah livers. Poor Sam, he looked so panicked when Chef Leo started asking him questions. I never thought about the demon blood, but I bet you are right! Loved the end shot of the Impala leaving down a dark alley. Edited to add: Just read catrox's reply in "Slumber Party" and realized that this episode is a continuation on "Dean's world starting to crumble". He's trying to not panic, keep Sam from thinking something is wrong, and has no one to confide in. He makes up some excuse about Leo being crazy, checks to see if Sam is buying it, then attempts to reassure him. I think it's more for him than Sam at this point, telling himself everything is still OK.

I agree with both of you! I think it's the forest for the trees in this episode for me. Too many little things stop me from seeing the episode as a whole, and I want to like this more than I do. I will say that I did love the fade between Dorothy sitting at the table in b/w to Dean sitting at the "console" table waiting for Charlie and Sam to come in. I also think Sam saying "here it is" was in regard to the bunker, not Charlie; only way it makes sense to me. Sam getting flustered when Charlie mentions "beckywinchester176" made me giggle.

This episode is one of the few that has actually gotten me angry over little nitpicky stuff. My handwavium is pretty powerful, and most things (especially when binging) I'm able to gloss over. But I am with Rulerofall and calling shenanigans on this one. The computer was built in 1951. Charlie can look at the back panel, hook up some USB connections and have access to it? Encryption software in 1951??? And all of the MoL files are on it? In what GIGANTIC tape storage room are all these files kept? And later Trying to explain all of this just didn't work for me. And Ruler is right, usually folks are much better at software or hardware, but not both. The timeline is another thing that is messing me up. Dorothy shows up in 1935. The first book was published in 1900. So Dorothy had to have her adventure at 12 (guessing here), be rescued, have her father write AND publish a book, then appear 35 years later, so she's supposed to be what, close to 50? Even if she was 6, I'm still not buying it. But my biggest nitpick in the whole episode is... the shoes. The shoes ARE RED. THE SHOES ARE RED! In the book the shoes are silver, and Charlie (being a big fan of the books as she points out) would KNOW this. If they wanted to use red shoes because of the movie, fine. At least have Charlie say something, "I thought the shoes were silver," Dorothy replies that they were always red, then Charlie responds "Guess the movie got it right after all." So small a thing and I just can't get past it. The idea of Oz being a faerie realm was intriguing, I liked the idea of knowing about multiple realms out there. But why not just spill salt in front of the WW and have her sit there counting it? Or grab some iron and get to stabbing? When I rewatched it tonight to comment on it, the whole episode felt off to me. I normally like Charlie, but she was a bit much here. Master of the ancient computer, hunter-in-training with two solo cases, and knows how to make bullets? Shenanigans.

Have her start up a Hunters' School with Krissy in the creepy blood-on-the-wall dead guy's house. Get Claire to attend before she gets herself killed. Jody & Donna can be guest lecturers. If that kid (or any kid) turns out to be related to anyone, I will cover my eyes and say LALALA CAN'T SEE YOU.

I'm also wondering how they're going to reconcile Mary's spirit getting destroyed in "Home", and Ash's inability to find her in heaven. Probably with "That was so season 1, no one will remember that even happened". I do want to see how Dean brings up Mary's deal with YED though. When Michael erased Mary's memory of them going back to stop Anna, did he leave the memories prior where Dean witnessed the deal go down? Might explain why Mary starts attacking him in the teaser, blaming him for her parents' deaths and attracting the demon in the first place. If Dean hadn't gone back, Mary wouldn't have have known her friend was about to make a deal with YED and try to stop her, but then Dean wouldn't have been Dean and gone back... Ah time travel episodes! Let's get drunk and never think about this again.

This is why I liked

With bringing Mary back, it doesn't surprise me if we revisit the demon blood days. I've been trying to figure out why those kids are shown in the teaser, what if they are Azazel's "last generation", the one he was working on in Season 1? That'd put them around 11 or so. Maybe MoL is trying to figure out how to "activate" them, and the torture with Sam is to try and figure out how his psychic abilities were originally turned on. Sam is the last of his generation, so he'd be their best bet since Azazel is dead. We saw Ava able to control demons (or at least a particular type of demon) and she originally started out with visions just like Sam. She wasn't even drinking demon blood. Sam also was able to move the furniture blocking his exit after he saw Dean's death, again without blood. Who knows what he really could do if he was forced into it; since Ruby needed him to kill Lilith, she just focused on exorcising demons with him.