CeeBeeGee

So, so awful. Poor Shaggydog. Fuck the Umbers. Fuck the Karstarks. And fuck Ramsay hard with a spike. Ramsay needs to be torn to pieces. Because that violates the rules of chivalry. You're not supposed to sneak up and steal your opponent in the back, you're supposed to face them up front and give them a chance to see you coming. Damn, if that actor playing young Ned wasn't a dead ringer! Amazing casting.

Lady Walda and Baby Boy Bolton just make me so sad. Like...I'm reading these cynical "well, we knew it was going to happen as soon as Roose blah blah blah" and I get that but we see her happy face, flushed with joy, she just had a baby, and this is what happens. This piece of garbage, this murderous thug, does THIS--she and her baby are literally torn to shreds by dogs. To a newborn babe, to a mother recovering from childbirth. Ramsay is absolute garbage. I will break out a bottle of champagne the night he is torn to pieces by his own dogs. Rest in peace, Fat Walda and your sweet boy.

Oh my God! Jesus. In less than a generation Romania goes from Olympic team gold repeat to...this. Very, very sad. The Big Four is no more--or at least changed.

I'm quoting this: I think the risks and the benefit should be weighed and assessed--someone posted here "there is nothing so loud as the silence of the defendant" and I kind of agree with that. But yeah, it can frequently backfire if you're guilty and arrogant, as it did in the civil trial. Specifically I'm trying to make the point that if the jury assumed Mark Fuhrman was lying because he took the Fifth, they should've done the same for OJ.

It's only natural to assume someone is a murderer when they don't take the stand to defend themselves against the charge of murder. What was OJ hiding?

Yeah, when I was a teenager, having read McGuinness's fascinating, stuffed-with-information but also biased account (I think he wrote the book after he decided MacDonald was guilty), I was undecided as well, and even wrote MacDonald. (And got a response--yes, buried somewhere in my teenage memorabilia is an actual letter from Jeffrey MacDonald.) But as I got older and really started thinking about it, common sense kicked in. Why on earth would a gang of drugged up hippies overkill two small children (Kristen was just a baby) and a pregnant woman, and barely scratch the guy who's there, who's fighting back, who's the closest, easiest target? His story was just not believable, especially when you start to add the outside stuff--his infidelities, his use of amphetamines, his weird affect after the killings (like the infamous appearance on I think it was The Tonight Show where he was making jokes) and I think he too had a record of domestic violence. Common sense.

But...does he really, deep down, give a shit about losing Sydney and Justin? He murdered their mother, and dumped the body there for them to find. Not exactly the act of a loving father. Also, someone posted a book where OJ's (?) agent talked about Sydney saying her father hardly spent any time with her, preferring to chase women, party, etc. (can't find the exact quote, I am paraphrasing). I think your last sentence is the key. OJ doesn't give a flying fuck about his children who mother he murdered. But he hates to lose anything he considers his. Which is why he murdered Nicole in the first place.

The Charles Stuart case would be a good fit for the series as well, and hasn't been done a lot.

The problem with the Downs case is, that as terrific as Farrah was in the movie, Diane Downs is just so inane. It's weird to describe someone who gunned down her three children in cold blood as banal, but she was, just kind of aimless and stupid and trashy. After the shootings, when she was under suspicion by the police but had yet to be charged, she bought a personal notice in the paper for the girl who died, Cheryl with this cheesy poem ("He took you to heaven/when you were only seven"). She had this unicorn statue that she bought that was supposed to be...I don't know, something nonsensical and cheesy that supposedly the kids treasured. And her whole story was so full of holes--a shaggy-haired man just walks up and shoots into a car at night (somehow he's able to see into the completely dark car and discern three children sleeping below the windows)?--so obvious, so trite, she's not compelling at all. She didn't put any more thought into the crime than she did in conceiving the children*. I mean, at least OJ was charming, and could do at least one thing very well. Ann Rule tried to make DD out to be very intelligent, but the essay she quoted in the book just underscores how I see her. The real drama is the oldest girl Christy, who had the guts to take the stand and name her own mother as the one who shot them. Maybe if she's the focus, or the ex-lover, "Lew." *Oh my God, her mothering skills. There's an anecdote in the book, a neighbor remembers looking outside and seeing Cheryl run out into the street and nearly get hit by a car. She goes to her saying Cheryl, you have to be more careful, you could've been seriously injured. The little girl just looks at her--no more than 5-6 years old--and says it doesn't matter. Nobody cares. And if you look at the pictures of her in the book, she never smiles. That little one haunts me to this day.

Yes, the Panthers were not really the black analogue to the KKK--as you say, they performed many non-political functions (free breakfasts being perhaps the most well-known) and yes, Hoover's COINTELPRO was an egregious example of taxpayer resources being used to spy, and worse, on citizens and any organization Hoover found suspicious. (Although to be fair, COINTELPRO also went after the Klan.) Side note: The absolute worst was the cold-blooded murder of Fred Hampton. The local Chicago chapter of the BPP had been infiltrated and the guy dosed Hampton with a bunch of barbiturates. After he passed out, CPD busted down the door and just shot him. It's horrifying. That said, giving the BPP salute after a verdict that came almost immediately--indicating little or no deliberation for an eight month trial--is shockingly inappropriate. He might as well have flipped off the Goldmans.

I'm a little worried if they do the Fatty Arbuckle and Errol Flynn cases that it'll encourage MRA types to say "see? Women lie about rape all the time!" Leopold and Loeb would be fascinating, though.

Oh, I absolutely agree that it was murder. Jones had armed guards standing by in case anyone refused to drink the Kool-Aid, and plenty of the victims were in fact shot. And that of course was after murdering Leo Ryan in cold blood. Yes, I've heard that audio--you can find it online, a few sites host it. It's AWFUL. That one woman, valiantly trying to turn the tide, reminding them of the children, and Jones saying "have some pride, go out with dignity." Just unbearable to listen to.

I fully agree. I actually hadn't known before this series that Fuhrman was a commentator on Fox (I don't EVER watch Fox) but sadly, I'm not surprised. Yes, you are correct that he must've been hired because of his notoriety--he's a decent detective (he got Michael Skakel put away for Martha Moxley's murder which, yay) but I somehow doubt Fox was thinking of that when they hired him. Is Fox really #1 in the ratings? JFC.

Would love a series about Trayvon's stalking and murder. Although it might be too soon. I well remember the Schiavo case. Utter insanity. That could be interesting. The Jonestown massacre was tragically American at its core. Jim Jones ended up an utter fucking monster (oh God, the whole story is so depressing) but at the very beginning, the Peoples [sic] Temple was a very hopeful idealistic experiment in socialism, with an emphasis on racial equality, very much a product of the '60s. A lot of black people joined the Temple, inspired by its egalitarianism. And then of course Jones was seduced by the money and power that flowed to the head of a church and everything turned to shit. (Random fact: the massacre happened the same month as the murder of Harvey Milk and George Moscone. There was a dark cloud over San Francisco in November of '78.) Did you not like Alpha Dog? I thought it was well done--so much so I can't watch it after a certain point. It's just too heartbreaking--such a spectacularly pointless murder.

I really hope the paps et al. have the decency to leave them the hell alone.

Embarrassing isn't really how I'd describe it--more like heartbreaking. It's absolutely appalling that he tried to gain sympathy during his speech to the court by referring to Sydney and Justin. Jesus, dude, you murdered their mother. You slaughtered her, and left the body there for them to find. And before that you beat the crap out of her regularly. You're a terrible father. You aren't fit to look Sydney and Justin in the face, or say their names.

Oooh, interesting interpretation.

Sorry. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. If you engage a known anti-Semitic organization to protect you, you will be rightfully accused of either anti-Semitism yourself or trying to minimize it. I'm sure Fuhrman received a few death threats after the tapes were made public--imagine the reaction if he'd enlisted the protection of the Klan? People would've been even more outraged, and rightfully so. And it's a false binary to assert there are only two choices for personal protection--the LAPD or the NOI. Johnnie's a hypocrite, that's all. He doesn't care about some kinds of racism.

Sure you can talk, Johnnie. OJ could've testified anytime he liked. RK looks devastated. OJ, please stop pretending you give the slightest fuck about your motherless children, whose slaughtered body you left for them to find. Death threats--JFC, people. Johnnie was a POS but he doesn't deserve that. Unlike OJ, he didn't actually kill anyone. Johnnie must think the jury is stupid if he has to use nursery rhymes to formulate a persuasive argument. Well, they fell for it in the end. Great bullet points, Marcia. Too bad the jury refused to listen. I also liked Darden's speech--liked him reminding the jury again about the 911 tapes. Too bad the jury didn't give a shit about a woman being stalked and beaten by her husband. HAHAHAHAHAHA Johnnie preaching against domestic abuse OJ crying crocodile tears for his audience. "Could be forever"--Darden, you're assuming an entirely undeserved level of dedication and civic responsibility for this jury. They knew the night before when they packed their bags what their verdict would be. "We can all do the math"--really obnoxious. She was asked to tally--she did so. Eff this jury. FOUR HOURS. Utterly contemptible. Even the defense thought that was bullshit. OMG Johnnie actually used bodyguards from the Nation of Islam? Like--seriously? So he's an anti-Semite then (or at least he finds a way to handwave it away for his own purposes). Puts him in good company with Mark Fuhrman. Jailhouse guard, please get your nose out of OJ's ass. OTOH he demonstrated that OJ got Rich Guy treatment. Glad the Goldmans were there and the jury could hear how they'd wronged them. Not that the "we can do the math" asshole would've given a shit. RK, we all feel the same way. Shut up, Johnnie. You don't respect Darden or you wouldn't have demeaned his presence on the prosecution's team. "You haven't changed anything for black people. Unless of course you're a rich famous one in Brentwood." Loved Darden's pat on Cochrane's shoulder as he walked away. Johnnie's wife, walk away from him, you deserve better. Loved that the last scene comes back to what this case was really about, and has been all along--men who rape, men who beat, men who murder women, and how easy it is for them to get away with it. Jury didn't care. But that's what the case was about. Rest in peace, Ron and Nicole. I'm sorry we couldn't do better by you.

wrong forum

Nobody knows who the first one was (seriously, I've never even heard of him), the second was famous only because of the murder and the bizarre way in which his culpability was revealed and the third was a washed up actor who hasn't been heard of since. Not sure what your point is.

I love Radionova and was pulling for her to push past Pogorilaya. Elena is such an artless, heartfelt skater, she just gets to you. All the top women were phenomenal this year, though.

Ashley!!!!!! Ashley!!!! So effing excited for her!!! I would've been happy for Gracie to medal but Ashley has carried the flag for so long for the US women, I am so thrilled for her! The drought has ended--the time of the long rains has come back!

I'm hoping we can all migrate as a group to the forum for Confirmation, to wallow further in the '90s.

I just cannot with that Bill Dear story. Jesus! He stalked Jason for years and years? Pawing through his trash? Trying to rent the place next to him? What is wrong with that guy? Is there anyway Jason can get some kind of restraining order? That is so disturbing. Also, fuck Martin Sheen for giving him a platform.