CeeBeeGee

Helter Skelter haunted my childhood. I made the mistake around age 8 of peeking through my Mom's copy and the pictures absolutely messed me up, even with the bodies whited out. For years I was literally convinced every night that Charles Manson was outside the window--every time the leaves moved I saw the shadows on the wall and was terrified. After a few years I finally started to grow out of it and then my Mom made the mistake of taking me to see the original Amityville Horror, which just started it up again except that now I was terrified of boathouses and sewing rooms and flies. The premiere was interesting but everyone seemed way too clean. Emma wouldn't have looked quite so radiant after a few weeks with the Family. (That actress is stunning though.)

To both of you--I was shaking my head at that bigtime. Sansa's self-preservation instincts have been on full display since the beginning of Season 2 when she mouthed to Tyrion about Joffrey being her beloved etc. No WAY does she do something as stupid as walk down a darkened hallway surrounded by barely-contained barking angry dogs. Come on. That scene took me out of the moment. Sansa would simply not act that stupidly. Oh my Lord, please no. That was honestly one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen on TV.

Literally RIGHT before Stannis said that line I absently muttered "fewer." Okay, I can like Stannis now.

Unless kids have lines and have to, you know, act, it's easier to cast a placid, quiet child in movies and TV shows.

Yay for happy Edith! So nice to see her holding her baby and glowing. David (the POW) doesn't become King until 1936. Still he was fairly popular as the POW and I imagine he might've been able to squash the investigation of a man who preyed on as many women as Greene did. I love it when Thomas shows grace notes like that (also loved how his friendship with Jimmy developed). But yeah, he needs to stop leering at fresh downstairs meat because his gaydar is way off. After this episode, I'm wondering if Guiliano Mignini started his career at Scotland Yard. What a joke of an investigation. And if those other women in the lineup really were also victims of Greene, that is appalling. Poor Anna, what a nightmare.

If only!!!! God, I'd LOVE to see that! WHY MUST YOU MAKE ME SOB LIKE THAT In Harry Potter, there's Pansy, Rose, Lily and Petunia...

Nah, I love him too. I love his loyalty to the Crawleys, love his devotion to Anna, I just like him. Anna's great too.

I agree! I loved that first season, so many great, well-written characters (LOVED the ending of the first episode) and just the right amount of melodrama (Cora slipping on the soap). Season 2 was such a letdown, what with four years squeezed into one season, Tiny Tim becoming paralyzed and then regaining his legs, and everyone acting ridiculously out of character.

That's not Edith's problem, or Marigold's. (Actually we don't know what Mrs. Drewe was told but my point still stands.) That goes back to the Drewe's communication gap. Edith was to be allowed access to the child and when she was cut off she stood on her legal rights, and Mr. Drewe should've anticipated that. But in the end, what happened was that Marigold was reunited with her mother--which was in her best interests and which should be the overriding factor. Not sure Mrs. Drewer running to Cora to blab was in her best interest but I'll let that slide. Anyway, I've said my piece on this so...

Nothing was wrong. Edith hadn't even left the grounds. Mrs. Drewe overreacted, imagining a problem that didn't exist. I knew someone would respond with "well, she was right, wasn't she?" Edith came back and took her child because Mrs. Drewe CUT OFF Marigold from her, which was against the original agreement. Again, overreaction to a problem that didn't exist. Mr. Drewe should've explained everything to his wife at that point--his telling Edith to stay away was frankly cruel. Oh well, the situation now is not the best--which would be Gregson and Edith married, raising their child together or failing that, Edith raising her openly acknowledged daughter at the Abbey or in London--but it's better than what it was.

Zoloft, I I had intended to respond to your question about Matthew not receiving any of the subsidiary titles--namely, because he was the heir presumptive, not the heir apparent--and by the time I'd gotten through the thread, a bunch of other posters had responded so I tried to delete it. Unsuccessfully!

She did, last episode, when she tried to leave during Mary's flaunting of her haircut. Mary made some snippy comment and Edith took her up. I don't think anything Edith says or does will change Mary's behavior--I keep thinking of Edith reaching out in the aftermath of Sybil's death, saying "can't we be more like loving sisters?" and Mary essentially rejecting that. It just seemed so obnoxious--if you can't cherish family bonds when you've lost your sister, there's something lacking in you. I actually really do like Mary but not when she acts that way. I adore Cora--I loved Elizabeth McGovern ever since Ordinary People, I think she's a terrific actress who is given NOTHING to do in this series. I always love it when she finally gets scenes with some grit in them--getting rid of Pamuk's body, her treatment of Robert in the aftermath of Sybil's death, she always does them justice. I want to give Mrs. Drewe the benefit of the doubt but I cringed when she flipped out a few episodes ago, running around the farm, convinced Edith had carried off Marigold. Just ridiculous. Well, regardless of her motives telling Cora (and yes, the Drewes do owe the Crawleys although I imagine this cancels the debt), the end result is that Marigold is ensconced at the Abbey as she should be, with her family. Edited to add: I sobbed out loud at Cora and Robert putting Isis between them on this last night. So, so sweet. How loving, and a sweet way to send off such a good dog. It's so hard to say goodbye.

You bring up a lot of excellent points--and most of them address the class issue (also a great discussion worth having). I was addressing a gender issue--the point I was making was that the poster was extremely harsh on Edith for having "selfish" sex and didn't bother to mention the other half of the equation--Gregson. I made that point because I believe a lot of the over-the-top vitriol toward Edith for not being the Perfect Mother (notwithstanding her obvious, awkward, badly-handled-but-enormous love for Marigold) is, frankly, misogynistic. Which isn't surprising. Even today we as a society are ridiculously hard on mothers. Fathers? We let them off the hook--much as the poster let Gregson off the hook. Peruse the Mad Men fora for more examples--Betty is the Worst Mother Ever whereas Don--who abandoned his entire family for three weeks in California, who blew off his daughter's 6th b-day party so he could stare at a train--is The Man. I could go on but whenever I encounter over-the-top vitriol toward a mother figure in fandom (or IRL) I roll my eyes. We're all way, way too hard on mothers. They're pretty much all trying to do the best they can. Both Edith and Mrs. Drewe are in difficult situations here, and they both love little Marigold.

Yes, exactly, Edith abandoned little Marigold by the road just as soon as she was born and went on merrily dancing through her bon-bon strewn life. You nailed it! A monster, she is ;) Bye, Mrs. Drewe! Thanks for the teddy bear!

Tell any mother "hey, you had your shot, too bad so sad" and see how that goes over, with either the mother or the child. Again, anyone who thinks that a mother could stay away from her child, the child she did not want to give up, the child she went out of her way to place in the adjacent village, is naive. This is just common sense--of course Edith would be unable to stay away. And by "And Mrs. Drewe knew it," I mean that in the end she recognized that Edith's "claim" was greater and gave in gracefully. Edith gave birth to Marigold, carried her for nine months, breastfed her, did all sorts of crazy things to be with her. If she made mistakes, she's learning.

And Edith is the one who couldn't bear to have an abortion, notwithstanding the danger to her name and that of her family. Edith is the one who breastfed her child for however many months. And Edith is the one who keeps making mistakes but all in the interest of a mother maintaining a relationship with her daughter. All parents make mistakes. Sorry, not seeing the demonization of Edith. I don't see the demonization of any of these characters--maddeningly inconsistently as they are written, it's clear pretty much all of them are flawed and nuanced. (Except for Greene, who was a monster.) Mary can be horrible to Edith and I hate that, but she's so kind and compassionate with Tom. Robert is an oblivious privileged dolt often, but he always steps up for his servants. Even Thomas can have grace notes of decency. They're all great. Edith is making mistakes but they're out of a mother's love. Edith is the mother. And Mrs. Drewe knew it in the end. She is a foster mother who obviously loved Marigold and I feel bad for her but she does have other children. This is likely Edith's only chance. And she's going to do just fine, drunken champagne binges all the same! (What next, butterbeer??)

THIS!!!!!! Edith is Marigold's MOTHER. It's obvious she adores her, there's no way in hell she's going to be able to stay away from her. Regardless of how she handled it, regardless of who was at greater fault, her or Mr. Drewe--Edith is that child's mother. End of story. I think it's naive to imagine she could've ultimately done anything else, or that Mrs. Drewe somehow has a greater claim on her (and perhaps Mrs. Drewe recognized that, as she gave in rather quickly). Also, imagine Marigold's reaction when she gets older and finds out that nice Lady Edith who is so kind to her never actually took her in or acted as a proper mother--she would be devastated. If only! God, I would've loved that. Why can't we get back the great writing and character development of the first season?? As many others have commented, this seems an overreaction. Edith wasn't doing shots of Jaegermeister; she ordered champagne, and I"m sure the daughter of an English earl is used to it! We WASPs have notorious heads for liquor ;) Regarding Edith's childcare arrangements, I am sure Aunt Rosamund will come into play here. Edith and the baby can stay with her and she can help them find a nursemaid. This is very common, in fact. Actors feel they know their characters better than the writers, because they inhabit the characters and come up with headcanons and backstories to justify the choices they are written to enact. Many writers and showrunners welcome this input. There's nothing out of line whatsoever for Laura Carmichael to make a request or suggest a direction for the character she has played for over five years now.

1. I adore Bates. He won my heart in the first season and I loved how loyal he was last season, with the forged letter and all. I am PRAYING he is not the murderer, can we PLEASE not go to that well again? Anna would be the perfect culprit--it was be a genuine surprise and it would give her back some agency in her rape arc. 5. YES, I want Gangsta Edith! I adore my Edith. Renaissance history geek here. Slight nitpick here. Henry marrying his SIL wasn't the reason he had to form his own church--it was Henry's excuse. Henry had gotten papal dispensation for the marriage, he was in the clear. But after 15+ years with no living son, Henry was desperate for a way out, and he seized upon the old testament verse that seemed to condemn his marriage to Catherine. The Pope actually resisted it as he obviously did not want to lose his "Defender of the Faith."

I'm really annoyed at Universal Sports. I subscribed to them so I could watch the good stuff, not the brief recaps. I went online today hoping to watch a decent rundown of the ladies' free skates and all I see are a few brief videos, 5 minutes long or so, with the results clearly in the video titles. I might as well cancel and just stay off media until NBC airs it. Really annoying. ETA: Uh, talking about Euros, that is.

THIS. For the life of me I don't get why FS fandom is so personally invested in their favorites. (Oh my God, the respective Tara fans vs. Michelle fans were INSANE. They made you hate figure skating.) *Ashley* didn't steal anything. She accepted an opportunity she was offered--due to her success in the sport. In fact we wouldn't even have had that third spot had it not been for Ashley. Blame the USFSA, if you must.

Yep. She delivered when it counted--as she said she was going to do--and she is consistently gracious toward Gracie in interviews. Love her!

DAMN can my Edith get a BREAK? The crushed look on her face when the Dowager C put her in her place...Et tu, Granny? Say yes, Isobel!!!!! He is awesome! Matthew mention! Lady Mary: "When Matthew died...." Does Tom have a heroin addiction? Why can't Robert be nice like that to my Edith more often? When he bestirs himself he can be so loving. Re: Archie: Beautifully put, Mrs. Patmore. I love how after Isobel "insists" that Miss Bunting be invited AGAIN, both men gulp brandy in unison. Dowager C: "I never take sides in a broken marriage"--does she know that many??? They were VERY rare back then!

Just because he was attracted doesn't mean she was leading him on. I read it as, first off, she's a beautiful woman; second; she has fascinating insight about these paintings. She obviously responds much as he would to them. Third, she's a bleeping Countess. Of course he's intrigued. She wasn't deploying her feminine wiles or anything, he seemed to be responding to something integral about her. Oh, and during their farewell--she knew. She was aware. And flattered. But she wasn't responsible. Man, I love it when Cora stands up to Robert!

Loved Edith's sly "where are your sketches anyway?" to Mary. I love them both but that's the least payback Mary can expect after her crap to Edith over the years. Jesus, Spratt, have you really NEVER seen anyone kiss a family friend on the cheek??? What a gossip monger. Re: the Mrs. Patmore's nephew sitch: memorials are primarily for the living, not the dead. Carson is being unimaginative, unempathetic and literal here. More good than harm would be caused by including Alfred's name on the memorial.