ReadMeLattice

Yeesh, that was dark. But true.

Our van, for a driver in a wheelchair, was around $150,000, and yeah, should run around $75k if it's just a passenger who's in a wheelchair. And yeah, unfortunately, they don't seem to have their financial priorities in order...but they *could* buy one if they did, much more easily than the average person, is what I'm saying. And it would improve Ali's quality of life so much. She can't be carried much longer and lifted into the latest vehicle.

Sure, but in this case we're dealing with life or death. It's not a divorce, it's a baby who could be hurt and a suicidal mother. At that point, the stakes are different. In that case it's not about easier or harder. The "easier" way out would have been to merely disappear, not confess to suicidal and homicidal intentions. That's not easier at all. I disagree with the blanket statement that attitudes about mental health issues are because of related behaviors. Mental illnesses are medical problems and disabilities that are not commonly understood. Many people don't understand Down's syndrome, for example, and have historically assumed certain things about people who have it. This is partly due to a history of institutionalization, pseudo/junk science, and past treatments and diagnoses. So no, people's current misconceptions about Down's syndrome aren't 100% due to how people with the syndrome actually behave and think and form relationships. Likewise, the stigma and attitudes surrounding mental health reflect not only the reality of people with mental illnesses and how they treat others, but also the overlapping histories of misogyny and hysteria, institutionalization and isolation, overmedication, psychoanalysis, and the emergence of the biomedical model of mental health. These histories inform all sorts of public assumptions, media portrayals, and misconceptions about what constitutes mental illness, what it looks like and what it means. It's too simple to say "people have those attitudes about mentally ill people because of what they do." That's like saying that the assumptions about certain racial groups are generally due to real experiences people have had with those racial groups.

If Jo or Javi had hit Kail once, I would not think they were a bad father. I think people make mistakes, even bad ones, and still aren't awful people. I can't speak for others. No rings still. Kailyn was mad about Javi posting that photo and they both keep vaguebooking (tweeting?) about "getting that old thang back" and heartbreak, etc. Still aren't following each other on Twitter. Expecting the announcement any day.

Dr. Drew will also be there to do his usual slut shaming/privacy shaming nonsense. Can't stand the man. Manages to be both condescending and pandering. It's a feat. I did feel badly for Leah when Miranda and Corey sat around after their meeting saying, "Why would someone need to go to therapy if they don't have a drug problem?" as if depression isn't a real thing. I know that they may have *just* felt that way about Leah and were justifiably sick of Leah's shit, but it sure seemed like they don't think mental health problems are even a real thing (like Jeremy didn't). I know that's partly due to a lack of education, but it was sad and upsetting. I have no idea if Leah has a drug problem or is just really out of it and depressed. If she does, I would say she doesn't owe the audience anything, but she or someone who loves her should really get her away from the show and get her help. She needs privacy and treatment for whatever issues she has, not more TM money. Quit being greedy and get some peace.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is snarking on either of them for not having a master's degree or becoming a law librarian yet, I just think it's really odd and not worthy of a lot of respect to do NOTHING in terms of education or career at all. Vee wanted to open a day care center...get some ECE credits online or at community college. Jo, take a business class, volunteer, get even a part time job or an internship. Newsflash to Jo and Vee: Actually wealthy people with kids still have jobs all the time. I get that they have enough money, but I don't get what makes them any better than these other people except we don't have to suffer through watching them on the daily as much. Vee also did a lot of waiting around occasionally begging Jo to marry her while he refused, (see Teen Dad) a la Maci, they broke up once or twice, and she only got a ring after bearing his child and moving away from her job, life, and family. That earns side eye from me. He avoided committing to her like the plague and she Catelynned him into a rock, essentially following him around until he proposed. I think if we had to see more than 45 seconds of them a week it'd be the same reaction we have to the other lovely couples on this show. Remember, we don't see their fights-- and Jo has one hell of a temper.

"And addiction is a serious health issue, not a moral failing." YES THANK YOU. Being an addict doesn't make you 'bad,' it makes you an addict. Could MTV even legally show drug abuse without calling the cops? Our drug laws are imo draconian...I don't know if they are under contract not to show the drug abuse, or is it just a network choice like they did with the controversial photo of Aubree......???

Yes, but if she was truly afraid of hurting her child, what else could she have done? What if her choices were to flee or hurt her child, or kill herself and thus leave her child with no mother at all and her spouse a widower? In severe cases, that's what it comes down to. Yes, you're still responsible for your choices (to an extent) with a mental illness, but the stigma also leads people to think of themselves as a burden. What if she truly, 100% thinks that letting Laird and Sample go is better for them due to her mental illness? It's not as simple as "she is a piece of shit for leaving." Attitudes are so harsh especially towards mothers with mental health issues that people do truly believe it'd be better for others if they were dead or gone. Calling that deluded and distorted and even immoral in some way, sure, but totally selfish, no. That's a reductive way to look at it. Suicidal ideation itself IS a mental health issue, so she most certainly has one. Abd this is a dark thought, but she could be leaving not to escape, but to hurt herself. I hope that's not what we are being led to believe. I think we are certainly asked to see her issues as PPD, as the symptoms she lists read like a textbook diagnosis and because it's Girls.

Just pointing out that both could be true...many people self medicate anxiety and depression or are prescribed meds by the doctor and it turns into addiction. If she is an addict, it doesn't mean she is not anxious and depressed or that that is not the core issue.

Definitely agree there, especially with a partner who is also uneducated and unemployed. I'm happy to snark on the other TMs (Cate and Tyler, Amber, Leah) who don't have educations or jobs and don't fulfill their promises, but I see no reason to respect Vee and Jo or to think of them as anything but two immature kids who had a baby with nothing but TM checks on their side, not even a lifelong commitment at the time. She did work at a day care center back in Jersey but hasn't since then.

We actually don't know where Caroline fled. She could even have checked into a hospital, but Laird is weak and pretty out of it himself and wouldn't think of that.

Yes, she and/or Corey should really invest in a wheelchair accessible van, I don't know why at least one of them doesn't have one when they can certainly afford it. They should be grateful for the MTV money in that respect; those things are expensive. I doubt they'll get one. I felt for Ali so much when Leah yelled at her about the tie. She looked so despairing when Leah didn't listen or believe her. She's probably used to not being heard or understood by her mother. Both Leah and Corey are uneducated and ignorant about a lot. Miranda seems to have a positive influence on Corey because he was far more selfish and immature in the past (I can't imagine her tolerating the "I'm getting a new truck" thing). Leah doesn't make an effort to actually get to know her children or think critically about her parenting choices and communication, but as the product of likely generations of teen pregnancy and absentee fathers herself, it's probably good enough in her mind just to feed them, spank them, and send them to school. I remember in one reunion show, Leah said she felt it was the woman's primary job to take care of the house and children and the guy might help but the responsibility wasn't equal. Jenelle agreed; I think Chelsea and to a greater extent Kailyn were like, um, no. But I just found it fascinating that Jenelle and Leah seemed to have these traditionalist values while the other two, who have been more traditional in many ways in their choices, didn't share them. I wonder if that's part of the issue...they have Daddy issues and keep trying to force whatever loser dude will date them into the patriarch, head of the household role. But they choose people who aren't worthy of that title, don't actually take care of their kids and home, and wouldn't be able to be the submissive, cherished little woman they seem to have in their fantasies if their lives depended on it. So instead they just keep having kids and letting guys move in and saying things like "be a man, man up!!!" and "I feel like I'm finally dating a real man!" and hoping that one day it'll become Leave it to Beaver.

Adam seems very willing to make nonsensical excuses for himself, so I don't doubt he'd do the same for his friend.

Every time I read Jeremy's posts about how "stupid" everyone is, it's hard to totally support him, both because it's painfully clear that he's not the brightest crayon in the box and because he obviously deeply cares what others think of him. Obviously that would be difficult if you were a public figure of some kind, but he didn't have to be on the show.

Obviously, everyone knows that, but it's not like an absentee abusive alcoholic father and being raised by personality disordered Babs didn't have an enormous effect on not only Jenelle, but both of her siblings as well, and all of their subsequent behavior/arrests/neglectful parenting.

I just thought the sauna scene was iffy-- imagine if she'd been hooking up with a guy and clearly asked to stop and he'd pushed her head down on him more for a moment trying to finish, then demanded/yelled that she should continue as she continued to say she wasn't into it and got dressed, then finished loudly while she reiterated she didn't like it. It would be a Very Special Rape Culture Episode.

Agree to drop it, though this was happening equally on both sides of the issue (and people are continuing to push). I will simply repeat that no one said he *literally* said Ali would be better off dead. That is a misreading and misunderstanding. It's especially because ableism is so embedded in our language and culture and so typical and pervasive that it's difficult to discuss without seeming radical (though that's not an awful thing to be). However, I will just say to @TwirlyGirly, thank you so much for that last post. I agreed with everything you said and it fits mine and my husband's experiences to a T. It's rare to find people who understand and don't minimize/dismiss how deeply harmful those kinds of comments are (I could never live my life in a wheelchair! I have faith that someday you will walk!!!1!--on our wedding photos!) and it honestly got me emotional. And yes, FUCK Million Dollar Baby and the Christopher Reeve philosophy. Thanks so much for your insights. I appreciate you & hope you have lots of like-minded progressive folks supporting you. Now on to other topics, like the fact that Jenelle's penchant for using needles rather unconventionally totally didn't keep her out of yet another 2 year program, you guys, it's Nathannnnn and his 40 year old swolemate. Leeeaaveee meee aloooooneee!

In some ways she reminds me of Louis CK, who is not afraid at least as his stand up/show character to sometimes come across as a fucked up misogynist or sociopath, though he's generally lovable.

I'm not really sure what the point of Marnie being "the love of Ray's life" is. Is there supposed to be some sort of hidden depth to Marnie we don't know about? Caroline I could see. She's dark and screwed up but I could see some inner intensity or passion. Jessa, even, perhaps. But Marnie?

My husband is paralyzed but he has full feeling & sensation everywhere (but many don't). He had an infected foot and was in a lot of pain and we both had to basically beg and cut off a limb to prove to the hospital that he actually needed pain medication (or he can get something called autonomic dysreflexia) and wasn't just trying to get high. A few weeks ago I had a concussion and they wouldn't believe I was really in to get tested for it/complications until I told them about 50 times I didn't need anything for the pain! I get that people must get high off it a lot, but damn! I assume it'd be better to err on the side of giving it out slightly too much than letting people be in pain. It's become such a culture of suspicion.

I didn't think much of the fling with the hot instructor at the retreat, but omg, the flashing and the sexual assault? How the fuck do these have to do with feminism/mental health/anything she claims to want to cover? Just when I think Lena is going for straight up absurd chaos, I start to laugh about it and get into the sheer craziness and have fun--and then I watch the Inside the Episodes and I'm like, what?!?!?! Fran has major anger issues?! He's a prude for not wanting Hannah to show her vagina to their boss?! What the fuck? The only truly bad things I thought Fran did were keep those pictures on his phone and correct Hannah's papers for her on a creative assignment. I thought the phone thing was weird in terms of consent (presumably they sent those when they were in a relationship) and I also personally think that's just sort of bad boyfriend behavior unless your girlfriend is cool with it. And Hannah calling them all sluts made no sense if she's supposed to be some sort of feminist character. But Lena said THAT was fine and Hannah was the one with insecurities, while apparently Hannah sexually assaulting a guy, a woman sexually pressuring Hannah to the point of finishing with her still in the room when Hannah has clearly said "no, I'm not interested" (imagine if a guy did that to Hannah and the shitfits and trauma that would follow!!!), and sexually harassing your boss are all 100% fine. I will just never understand Lena's worldview.

Honestly I would respect her or Leah/Amber so much more if they did porn. At least they would be doing SOMETHING. They act all high and mighty because they said no to porn requests...oh yes, you're the Queen of Sheba. At least porn is honest! Its purpose is obvious. You're all pretending to care for your children.

Right, and going directly against the doctor's suggestions in doing so. Corey's statements were out of a lack of education. Just as a parent who truly believes it will send their child to Hell to be gay is only trying to help, but it is still homophobic. His statements were still ableist. But hopefully he has indeed changed. And nowhere did anyone say he "thinks she is less than him."

Right, that's what I was responding to--it's not an issue of opinion,I'm just clarifying what she said. In the disabled community it's a common theme and common complaint to which she is referring, so I was clarifying...i.e., the things people communicate to disabled people without explicitly saying it ("wow, if I had to deal with what you had to I don't know if I could go on!" Or devaluing a wedding unless you are walking at it, etc). that's why she said he's "bought into it" (the common form of prejudice/discrimination experienced by disabled people that subtly implies their lives are akin to death), not that he said those literal words. That form of discrimination is what I was explaining. It's only a "pretty clear statement" on her part if you don't know about that discussion among people with disabilities and their loved ones about their experiences of dismissal and discrimination, so I was explaining what that discussion/reference is. I understand why you would make the jump to "preferring death over disability," but that's not what is meant by that reference.

Is she not wearing a shirt?