ReadMeLattice

I just looked up the Delaware child support laws. It says that other children are taken into consideration, so they wouldn't take away from Jo's support of his daughter. They also say that private school expenses are only part of the child support equation under "very limited circumstances," I'm assuming perhaps if both parents are highly religious or if a child has special needs and needs to go to a particular school, so that would be unlikely to be part of the total either. Moreover, it does say you can be incarcerated if you don't pay, which Kail claims has happened to Jo in the past. Kail's personal income and needs are unimportant. Jo needs to be an equal contributor, period.

Kailyn is definitely one of the better moms. 100%. Especially considering where she comes from. Maybe not likable, maybe not some amazing wife, but she's inarguably a great mother. Maybe even better than Chelsea as she actually seems to discipline her sons and expect them to behave. Aubree is cute now but she will be a terror.

So true. I get so sick of food shaming and food politics. Most people do what they can with their time and money and knowledge. Some areas still don't even have produce available at all, and definitely not affordably. But I'm sorry, that doesn't apply to Leah/Jenelle/Kail/Maci/Amber. It seems like Farrah and Chelsea might feed their kids actual food (and maybe Kail, I'm not sure).

Yeah, he didn't say "I don't want to pay for private school" (and we don't know, maybe he did agree to that private school). He acted like he could barely buy groceries or pay rent and they'd take every cent from him. And now he's buying expensive rings?

I don't know. If I found a dead kitten in my house, I'd freak out like that too. I'd be devastated. But what bugged me about it was that I assume it was her own neglect that led to the death. Maybe that's an unfair assumption, but...

Bethany is very manipulative. Like other evangelical "Christian" adoption agencies, they try to push birth parents (who had sex outside of marriage and are thus bad bad sinners) into adoption by "nice Christian" families. They don't give a lot of options, they don't have a reputation for respecting the birth parents' choices, and they aren't above deception and exaggeration in order to push birth parents into it so they make money and, of course, for the religious angle.

The only person who bugs me almost as much as Farrah is her mom. Something about her skeeves me out. She's creepy.

Looks like Maci pushed her way into a ring at last, just like Cate. That guy won't ever truly love her.

Wow, I actually thought Kail looked great at the awards, though her neckline is a bit much. Farrah and Jenelle, yikes. Farrah is not a pretty girl.

Adam has always exaggerated what he has and does. He thinks "doing great" is "not going to jail for a year." He also claimed he'd never gotten in trouble for "anything having to do with parenting" when he had DUIs and was driving Aubree around when he had no license. Yeah, but Vee and Jo have both hemmed and hawed when asked if he had a job. Why not just say, no, I make enough from the show and I don't care about school or a career? I sometimes wondered if he was doing something illegal because his answers always seemed so shady. Dr. Drew confronted him about it and he said sarcastically, "Do I need to work? Is that important?" And then later, "Well maybe I should get a job, but I guess we'll see," still sarcastically. It was just odd. In her vehement defense of him, Vee never said, "we have enough" or "he has a job, quit complaining." She just complained about haters, etc etc. I thought that was telling.

She takes the one twin to cheerleading...apparently to become the next cute popular girl in the trailer park? I've never seen her read to them, teach them numbers or colors, do projects, ask them about school, etc, like we've seen with Chelsea and Kailyn (though she's unlikable, she is definitely a great mom). Then again, we've never seen that with Corey and Miranda either. Jeremy straight up made fun of people with PhDs in another episode. Oh yes, great role model for the kids...a guy who makes fun of advanced degrees. At least Corey expressed that desire, though he's not educated himself. They would have been screwed with Leah and Jeremy, and now just Leah, as primary custodians.

So do I have a right to decide whether someone really has lupus or not? Can I go all over the Internet and claim someone doesn't when they have a diagnosis of it? I mean, I guess, but I'll look pretty silly and it'll be pretty unproductive. No, I'm not a physician and more importantly, I'm not that person's physician. Mental disorders are as legitimate as any other disorder. I suppose they can guess and pretend to be Cate's psychiatrist for a day...

I mean, someone who is filmed only occasionally like Jo doesn't have the camera crew in their face like, say, Corey or Jeremy in past seasons, so I think it depends on the dad. But I agree that it's equally silly for any of them to rely on it alone. Get a job or go to school...take the opportunity to have a college experience or try different things educationally. Get a technical degree... I'm so sick of seeing so many of them (Caitlyn, Tyler, Leah...) claim they'll do something great and never do it. Use the MTV checks to fund a B.A. or at least get an internship to jump start a career you actually want! Makes no sense to squander that time and those opportunities.

Kail lived with them as a 16 year old orphan, essentially. Then she lived on her own while Jo continued to live with his parents. Vee moved in with him and his parents in 2014, from what I understand. Do you have another source that says otherwise? Obviously we can't know 100%, but my understanding was that Vee lived with him and his family until they eventually did get their own place. The last info we have about him working was from 2011. Unless I'm mistaken, there is no indication he's worked since then, and at least for the past year he has made it clear that he doesn't and isn't concerned about it. And he has definitely never gone to college. I think Adam is fibbing about the $200,000, but he does about everything.

He was staying home and unemployed long before he had the baby.

I agree that they all need intensive therapy. Barbara isn't and wasn't a fit mom, but once Jenelle had made those decisions, she had very few choices. It was unfair of her to call her a whore, etc, though, especially since she also (I believe) was a pregnant teen. Not a good setup to be a good teen mom, with your mom repeatedly calling you a whore. I wish a lifetime of Randy and therapy on all of these girls and their parents.

Definitely true on the college comments. When someone in the TM fam goes to grad school, then we can talk. However, I still think it's safe to say Chelsea is not as bright as the average person, and Cole seems average.

Right, someone can know. And someone who knows would not make a blanket generalization about "what the truly depressed" do or do not do. That indicates that they do not. It is not at all a fact that the truly depressed do not use social media. Also, people with depression do still have personalities and are human. A person can be clinically depressed AND lazy, boring, annoying, immature, or attention seeking. It does not make them less depressed. The only one who can know if they are truly depressed is the person him/herself and their doctor. Perpetuating the idea that mentally ill people look and act a certain way and only do certain things is part of the problem. And yes, of course it's not black and white because no human's life/illness is black and white. Of course she's self-medicating with food, or she just really likes eating poorly. And she doesn't exercise, which could help her. Doesn't make her 'not truly depressed' any more than having cancer and not taking care of yourself/making it worse with your behavior makes you 'less cancerous,' or not taking care of your diabetes/eating poorly when you know you have diabetes makes you 'less diabetic.' It might make you an irresponsible diabetic or a lazy person, but it doesn't make you less diabetic. Same goes for mental illnesses as physical ones. If she is diagnosed with depression, she has it. Nothing she does negates that, though her behavior can make it worse or better.

No; he lived with them for quite some time and didn't go to school. He at the very least did not pay rent. I don't know if he contributed financially in some other way. He worked for a time but the last info we have about any employment of his is from 2011. I don't think it's a "rumor" if he openly admits he doesn't have a job, says he doesn't need/want to work, and we saw him living with them.

If she'd called CPS he'd be in foster care or more likely, adopted. He was a white newborn baby...it's screwed up, but people are on waiting lists to adopt them. If he'd ended up in foster care, it'd be a matter of chance...could have been worse, could have been better, depending on the foster parent.

You see, that is the only thing I could see working against Chelsea and Cole. He apparently is fairly educated, intelligent, and motivated, if we take into account he finished college while being involved in other activities like college sports. Chelsea is sweet and normal for the most part, but unless she is hiding a secret well of deep thoughts, I wonder how interesting she will be to someone with a college education over a period of time. Then again, since we don't know much about Cole, I suppose he could've been an average student who coasted along in school, propped up by his educated father. I'm wishing the best for them, in the long run. It's weird; "upper middle class mobility" for an esthetician with barely a GED, not sure, but maybe for Cole. But yeah, basically same backgrounds. And agree on it possibly working against them, though statistically, guys do find less intelligent girls more desirable.

All I know is that on the reunion show last fall (which was filmed even earlier, yes?), he told Dr. Drew he didn't need to work to support his kids even though he only gets Isaac on the weekends and while maybe he should get a job, he didn't have plans to do so. Looks like it hasn't changed since then.

I definitely agree that Jenelle should have gone with Barb's wishes and given Jace up for adoption. However, she was 16 and Barb's upbringing helped to create a human who would do the things Jenelle did at 16. She was a minor at the time and while she is responsible for her choices now, obviously something from Barb or one or more of the guys in her life traumatized those kids since she's raising TWO of her grandkids now, not just Jace, there are no fathers or stepdads around anywhere, and all of them have rap sheets and problems with violence and getting into and out of violent relationship after violent relationship. Even the fact that Jenelle was how she was at 16 was a product, in part, of her environment. Now she's given her own kids an even unhealthier environment. Barb and the absent fathers she chose to breed with and marry obviously didn't grow up in healthy families, either. The cycle continues.

There is no one thing that "truly depressed" people do. Some seem happy in public, some don't. Some are extroverts, some introverts. Some spend a lot more time on social media for validation/boredom/self-esteem boosts/out of addiction, some less or not at all. Some become the life of the party in an attempt to hide their depression or deal with it; others stay at home and can't stop sleeping. It drives me nuts when people make blanket statements about mental health issues (if Leah were truly anxious, she'd _____). It's all part of the stigma of mental illness that gets perpetuated over and over by people who think they 'know.' IMO Cate is extremely depressed. If nothing else, why wouldn't she be?! She hasn't had the most stable life (although depression doesn't need a cause). Her weight gain is also a common symptom of depression...and extreme weight LOSS is a symptom, too. So that goes to show how variable depression is in different people. Tyler I have no words for. He is useless.

All I mean is that Chelsea and Cole are setting themselves up to live a very normal/average/typical American/middle class/whatever you want to call it life. They're not gallivanting all over to New York or L.A. like Farrah/Jenelle/even Maci, somewhat/some of the others or trying to live it up in that way. She's not trying to marry someone who is a wannabe celebrity or reality show star or who has the same level of wealth she happens to have now because of the show, which will probably work out well. She's marrying someone from a similar background, similar region, similar culture, similar 'level' of job, slightly higher level of education. (However, I will say that she definitely traded up in the intelligence department; while Cole isn't a rocket scientist, Chelsea is really quite dim. I do wonder where she'd be now if she didn't have such a supportive and well-off family to pay her rent during the many-years-of-GEDing). The other girls tend to try to meet rich men (Farrah), show off their wealth (Kail) or marry/date men they're going to be taking care of forever (Jenelle, Amber, Maci). Dating patterns also DO tend to be different regionally. People get married a lot later on the coasts. Chelsea and Cole are going by the normal timeline for their region and background; there just happened to be a reality show and a teen pregnancy in there beforehand. I think this will probably make their relationship stable, as it mirrors the people they know.