Uncle JUICE

I guess I presumed that Henry telling Joel that FEDRA was in KC up until about ten days ago meant that Kathleen's revolution happened around that time, and again based on presumption (so, based on not a lot), I didn't figure that Michael was the only person they would have moved to eliminate via collaborator information. Given their rep and all, Michael seems to me a 'decapitative' strike, which would have been followed by a swift mop up operation, given the small band of people you're talking about in the 'resistance.' I guess I have the opposite slant on the "time" that you do: I figure everything in a world like this has to happen on a super-accelerated timeline because of the constant mortal danger around every corner. In any case, interesting to read a different take on it.

What a frigging great point. I kind of glossed over this on my first watch, but on the two repeated viewings I've done (THERE ARE NO SPORTS I LIKE ON, don't judge me :)), it kind of bugged me too, and led to my "timeline" question on Kathleen. If Sam had leukemia two weeks ago, he looks pretty good now. But I'll forgive it! So you think that Sam's cancer and the betrayal of Kathleen's brother was two years old? I didn't get that impression from the show. FEDRA doesn't strike me as a patient organization, I mean they're shooting infected on test results (How many Ellies has this cost humanity?). Plus the KC FEDRA apparently had a particularly brutal reputation among the QZ's. Seemed to me they'd be the kind of organization to take swift and decisive (if not the wisest) action in the face of resistance like that.

This should have been the episode summary when I hit "INFO" on my remote. It's insanely accurate. Well done.

Curious, as I don't know the answer, bit how long do we think it was between her brothers death and present day? I think it's less than ten days.

Well in this case she got reimbursed for the two uber drivers who took them to that very sad and very same gross beach. The volleyball net was already there.

I don't think I said what you quoted, but I can sure respond: I thought this too, but there's not a 20 year supply of anything of any use to people anywhere. My conclusion is that those stores were raided within the first year, and anything that would be of any use, clothes, shoes, weapons, tools, ALLLLLLLL of that would have been taken for hoarding purposes and used as leverage. Heck, look what Bill's first move was: steal then gut his neighbor's boat, head to the local Home Depot and grab as much as you could pack, and be quick about it. That was ver,y very early in the outbreak, before anyone could really organize. Between the number of people who died and the number who were infected, early on this would have been fairly easy. Particularly if you were a person who had capacity to store these things. Initially it'd be goods for sale for money, but money collapses pretty quickly, so then they become very high value trade items. I'd be absolutely floored if any big box store had anything left on any shelf. Food would be first, but that's very limited.

I don't remember them saying the kid HAD to die, but Kathleen saying maybe he SHOULD have died. This I understood as her counterpoint to Henry's motivation, which was lifesaving cancer medicine for Sam (what he sold out her brother to get). Essentially she thinks Henry intervened on fate's behalf and everything that happened afterward, all the fucked up series of events, were his fault. She's not entirely wrong, either, I mean look at all the shitty stuff that happened to everyone involved over what turned out to be less than two additional weeks of life (if we consider that the pills transaction actually happened before the fall of FEDRA KC), and Henry ended up having to shoot Sam kind of seems like some sort of karmic punishment (if you're Kathleen pre-being beaten then infected by a clicker).

I wonder how much of that has to do with people who've played the game vs. people who've watched the show. I've never played the game (not a huge 1p shooter guy and I definitely am not a zombies guy), so this is my only exposure to the story.

Looking at you, guy who played Petyr Baelish and Mayor Carcetti.

Maybe someone has pointed this out subsequently, but it wasn't in an hour. It was closer to thirty five minutes, somehow. THe hour would include all the Joel stuff that happens afterward, and Frank doesn't show up until well after we meet Bill. It's an insane display of unbelievably efficient storytelling, the kind of achievement that is so profound and so rare that it makes me feel like a terrible writer, because how could I ever accomplish anything like this!

Agree, this one tiny exchange sort of stood out for me for some reason. The somewhat elongated "No," like a mom who's done negotiating with a six year old but isn't yelling or screaming yet, just chilling. I didn't take it as flippant though, for me it was more like "I have considered this already, and because I'm the one in charge, I'm afraid it isn't going to go down that way." THe same with her "I know why you did it," I really did feel like she absolutely understood his motivations, that she didn't necessarily disagree, but she had "won." Revenge or justice are close enough cousins that they might look the same, depending on perspective. I hate how much I love this show so far.

THis was on again last night and of course I watched it. Caught the post-infection scene with Sam attacking Ellie and the aftermath. The dawning realization on poor Henry's face after Sam falls lifeless to the floor, that everything he'd done was for nothing, was really something to watch, nice job by that actor. I wish they'd have kept Kathleen around longer, I loved her performance, too. Her school marm tone was insanely menacing, from the second she hit the screen with that doctor Edelstein. When he said this has to stop, and she was like "You mean NOW it has to, right? Because you're in here." That's some good villainy.

Isn't that a choice in and of itself? It's the choice made by Bill, after all, isn't it? :) and don't worry, I'm fairly certain I'm overestimating my own survival skills. Pretty.much if there's no toilet paper, I'm ready to call it quits on civilization.

I hear you, and like you, I'm an optimist with a lot of faith in collective humanity...but imagine how quickly that'd evaporate under the circumstances. How many times would someone have to take your resources before you not only refused to share them, but defended them aggressively against EVERY person? Even if you're in a loose "collective" of resource generation, how long does it take for one armed group to decide "Why should we start our own farm when it looks like these people have plenty of food right now, not six or eight weeks from now?" Then you know the outcome, arguemnts ensue and shit goes pear shaped in a realy hurry. It was Bill's LACK of faith in humanity, or his certainty about how terrible people would become, that saved him, that made him that "island" on his own. He took all that time to set up all that stuff after he was sure everyone had left. People with those skills would quickly become somewhat different, no? Like if you're an electrical engineer...what if the wrong person finds that out? There's a very thin line between "respected contributor to society" and "forced labor" in a place like this, I'd think. Or, other hand, you could withhold your skills so that, say, the pills manufacturing equipment locally just doesn't run, until you get exactly what you want. I think you're right on it, the appeal of these shows, zombie shows, is it forces us to imagine "what am I capable of, really" in a way.

Ugh, this show is going to kill me, it's another place for me to get bogged down in details like this :). So to the last paragraph, I'd conclude that the outbreak's worst days were at the very, very beginning, and then once enough people were dead, the misery and dangers people face daily changed and became more stable. After all, those QZ walls don't go up in a matter of hours, they're prison walls the span of city blocks, so clearly something must have stabilized to allow their construction, right? To me it seems reasonable that whatever's left of the central health authorities, the ones developing screening machines like the ones we see, would have no problem publishing signs aimed (futilely) to limit the outbreak. Now they seem quite out-dated, and really only exist for viewer information (everyone alive would know these timelines, maybe they just don't bother taking them down). City garden plots are an interesting idea, but as a FEDRA managed resource is my guess, otherwise you'd be growing apples for people to just steal from your tree. And we sure it's BEEF jerky? :) The chicken I get (we see Bill has a coop, reasonable to imagine these are fairly common), but the bread gives me pause. As a non-game playing watcher, I really loved how the second episode's opening dovetailed in with the first and second episode details around bread.

This is the kind of thing that I find fascinating about this show. Initially I agreed with you: where's all the rebuilding, this was my main pushback on Walking Dead (I quit that shitshow in S3, I know it ended up with a ton of other problems), why aren't humans trying to out-think the walkers, etc. I think here this show is a little different because it very clearly lays out an absolutely STUNNING timeline of how things went to shit. Basically, Joel went to work on Friday morning, and by 11pm Friday night, the world had fallen apart, right? Planes falling out of the sky, army occupying the streets, who knows how many people dead? The rate of people dying or getting infected outpaced our ability to transfer data to each other to keep things going, and everything but survival went on the back burner. Like that kid's shoes, there's just no one to make them anymore. I think you're seeing people try to rebuild (FEDRA no doubt started out with this goal in mind), but the population is so decimated that specialized and industrialized skills are so few and far between that we just don't have the horsepower.

No, Camille did. She went to Rachel with her tone to get validation that no, not every department head had a problem with her, only to be shocked to find out that Rachel DID have a problem, she just chose to handle it in a manner that's nearer to 'professional' than "get shitfaced and blow up your colleague in front of others and in public." Rachel didn't have time to make a big deal out of Camille's uselessness, and very likely addressed whatever her concerns were with Fraser (Camille's manager, Rachel's peer). I was delighted by the way Rachel handled Camille in this last moment, she wasn't an asshole about it, but she was clear. Good for her and what a turnaround by someone who two seasons ago was an absolute nightmare. Seems like she's dropped the stereotypical chef "tortured genius' rol and just likes to let her talent shine. This boat isn't doing her any favors.

DIdn't this happen again last night? honestly, I'm watching it with Mrs. Juice, and I told her there is zero chance that's happening twice in my room. I'd have done everything I could to interrupt it. "Guys, no problem if you want to do that, but can we turn the lights on so I can watch while I beat off?" or "I think you should go faster, wait, let me check the angle." Or start making the same noises. Or cheer them on. Tear off a loud fart. The least that guy could do would be to pay the tab for his roomie when they went out the next time, then promised "I'll ask if I can use a guest room if it happens again, okay? My apologies." No one faults you for being young, good looking and horny. It's the lack of consideration for others that sets you apart, you two.

I wish I could take credit for it, but no :)

One thing is for sure. There are no heroes here. Alissa and Camille are BOTH assholes, there's no other way around that fact. One just happens to be a better worker than the other. THere's no reason at all to start with the "I hate you" stuff while you're getting ready to go out as a group, that's nothing but a fucking jerkoff of a person who I can't imagine spending five minutes with. She HAD the high ground, too. She could have just gone about her business, but she decided to actively be abusive to Camille. Add in her insistence on flirting with Russ when she knows there's a situationship developing, and I can't really deal with her. That said, 1000% certain she would absolutely fuck Russ into oblivion should she decide to do so. Russ is another problem entirely, a much grosser one, and somehow Sandy better get that mess quashed. All of his interactions with the women are entirely inappropriate given his rank, and open the boat owners to liability in a lawsuit. Big red flag when someone working for you says "At least my boss has a crush on me!" at all, much less in front of other subordinates, that's bad news all the way around. Why does the red haired funny stewardess wear a wig so ridiculous? Her tattoo on her arm is outstanding, which is unusual for this show.

Did you counter that maybe pointing out inconsiderate and / or racist assholes is part of YOUR journey?

Alissa is basically the personification of "I'm NOT touching you!" while you have your finger one inch away from your sibling's eyeball. And I'm fucking mystified by how much these people seem to love alcohol, like top to bottom, charter to charter. If it isn't the guests, it's the crew. It's really pretty gross. Frankly I think the guests got the beach picnic they deserved: it looked fine before anything really got started, but was disgusting by the time the event was in full swing, and everyone involved hated everything about it.

Clearly yes, couldn't agree more, that was a production-spurred apology (and only after Nadal approached him about it in the morning because the dude tried to manhandle the woman he ended up plowing over his roomie's bunk...WAS THERE NOPLACE ELSE ON A FIVE HUNDREED FOOT LONG BOAT?!?). My objection, if I were a producer, is that (a) they will continue to drink an extremely disgusting amount of alcohol, (b), this person has made statements that he has several addiction issues, not only to alcohol but to sex, and (c) has a female staff member, not to mention multiple attractive female subordinates. That, my friend, is a very dangerous mix. Especially now that you have a precedent for workplace harassment caught on camera, with the guy clearly ignoring both body language and actual verbalized objections. You can pull a Hannah at any time and basically announce to the viewership "I have the shits." :)

I came back because I feel negligent in not addressing the absolutely insane sequence in which that english bosun and his GENEROUSLY described as inappropriate touching. It's unfathomable that he's not ashamed enough to quit after the charter, but also that Bravo would take on the liability he clearly presents when in the presence of alcohol. That scene was absolutely disgusting, just like that douchebag.

Alissa's problem as a manager is the condescension. That nutjob layabout can't articulate it, but that's what's upsetting her so much, particularly late in the episode, when she's constantly being called "boo" or "babe" in a really, really shitty tone when she's being corrected. It's infuriating, I wouldn't do it to my 14 year old, much less an adult. Not that the nutjob doesn't bring it on herself with the lack of work and her own attitude, of course, my point is no one is right. But the blond is less right.