Eolivet

If I'd started watching this season instead of last season, I'd have stopped watching this show at one season. Completely agree with everyone who said the final last season was epic and ... well ... challenging. This was just ... cheesy. It looked like basic cable. Last season did not. The snake pit was so amateur hour. I know they meant it to have that fear/gross-out factor, but the show's still owned by Viacom, they're not putting poisonous snakes in there. Just "scary-looking snakes that look like they could be poisonous." Would've liked to see that snake casting call. But the snakes were indicative of the whole thing -- something they wanted to look grand that in reality was so ... small. Too claustrophobic and repetitive. And the fact that you could time out on a puzzle? Heck no, screw that. You Mensa candidates stay and complete that until you snap and start beating each other with puzzle pieces or TJ comes out, a la Phil Koeghan on Amazing Race in the middle of the night two days later, and eliminates both teams for being complete morons. And this show is so poorly edited, I can't get the sense about whether all the complaining about Dee was legitimate, or just an editing trick. She looked pretty darn competent in this final, especially on the swim. So what was that "she doesn't train, she doesn't try" footage about? Meh. I would hate Rogan, had Survivor not set my bar on hate this season. He was like a punter on a Super Bowl-winning team. Like, technically you get a ring, and technically you played a role, but ... did you really? And Paulie is the Buffalo Bills of Challenge finalists, at least from what I've seen (chokes in the big game). Overall, I thought the team format was terrible and confusing, and I think contributed to the overall "meh" feeling this year. That being said ... see you guys next season.

After the number of Survivor reporters that showed integrity over this season (Josh Wigler chief among them, but Andy Denhart, Daniel Feinberg in the Hollywood Reporter, the Variety columnist, even the New York Times), how does Dalton Ross look himself in the mirror every day? Denhart said it best when he said Entertainment Weekly (through Ross) functioned as "Survivor state media." I lost a lot of respect for him, to allow himself to be used to parrot the party line like that. Without EW functioning as Survivor Pravda, the show wouldn't have had anyone to get their side out there on a consistent basis. But I guess network access was more important than personal integrity. If anyone deserves the "sold out your [morals] for a stack of greenbacks" speech, it's Dalton Ross.

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

I get that, to a point, but increased publicity would usually lead to people becoming curious about a show and then checking it out -- thus leading to increased ratings or visibility. But I can't feasibly see anyone, anywhere ... ever going, "Wait, Survivor had someone sexually harassing women? And people were mad at the show for how they handled it? You know, I think I might check that out." I think the goal is the opposite: to get people to stop talking about this, to make this go away and most importantly, to keep existing viewers (versus attracting new ones as a result of publicity). And what they really hope is that viewers will confine their anger to this season, not direct it towards the franchise as a whole. Although now that super-early premiere date for Survivor 40 sure makes a lot more sense.

As others have pointed out, would they really give their presumed winner, Tommy, a confessional that was like "guys, that sexually harassing pervert was a huge part of my game. Now what am I supposed to do?" Because: yikes. I have a lot of dumb reasons why I'm now leaning towards Dean, one of which is he had this gorgeous confessional location last episode -- seriously, it was like this backlit beach view at sunset, and I swear, they find the prettiest locations for their winners and give everyone else like ... rocks and trees. So, that's my dumb reason. And I was wrong about Elaine! But a mediocre white dude would totally be the winner this season deserves.

And I'm back to the white-hot rage: a.k.a. "we were more concerned that Dan would sue about being removed than we were about protecting contestants from sexual harassment." Screw every person involved who prioritized the show's bottom line over the contestants' well-being.

Thanks @Hanahope — appreciate the clarification between drafting and filing a lawsuit. The way the lawyer talked, it seemed the show was reacting to something more formalized than the basic “I’m gonna sue!” threat. Oh, and another fun tidbit: it’s very possible that the harassment of the crew member occurred after the F7 immunity challenge (not the F6 one) and the show was like “well, we can’t deal with that now, we have a tribal council to do!” That they let Elaine get voted off, let Dan vote (!) and THEN pulled him after talking to everyone. There’s no way to prove it either way, but that makes them look even worse, so I honestly tend to believe it.

What a fascinating podcast @himela. It made me both angrier and less angry at the same time. If you don't have 59 minutes of time, the lawyer said this was textbook sexual harassment (assault), which the show failed to correct. And that means anyone affected, directly or indirectly by that inaction could sue them for either costing them money or for emotional distress. The people they could potentially be sued by include: --the crew member --Kellee --Janet --Missy and Elizabeth (for intentional infliction of emotional distress, due to the harassment they've received for their actions when the show did not remove Dan) --Molly --Jamal --and Dan The lawyer says the season's been edited this way to counter a defamation lawsuit by Dan, who he thinks has sued the show. It sort of answered my question about why there was so much Dan in the show -- because they needed to be as transparent about what happened as they could (so they wouldn't have to call people back to testify for a lawsuit). It confirmed that this was a production failure so massive, they could be facing millions of dollars in lawsuits. Meaning they will never admit fault, because they legally cannot (unless an apology is a condition of a settlement). I was vindicated, and frustrated by listening to this, and would be curious what others thought. But it unfortunately implied that the reunion show will be a massive tap dance, and any apology we get will be years down the road. And they addressed one thing that has bothered me so much about this past episode: the show doesn't care about the contestants. They failed to protect them in favor of "the show must go on." They failed so hard, it could cost them millions of dollars. I suppose that should be a consolation, but honestly, I'd trade all that only to be able to trust the show again.

Fire the new casting director. I'm actually serious. Someone has to take the fall for this, and while I wish it could be Jeff Probst, Mark Burnett, one of the higher-ups, it won't be, and he's as good a fall guy as any. There's a reason long-time Survivor casting director Lynne Spillman didn't cast Dan and this guy did. This guy clearly felt he could copy her style, because Mike White from David vs Goliath had worked out okay. And he was from Hollywood, too. And golly gosh gee, Survivor, you think you may have screwed up by letting Lynne Spillman go? Isn't it funny how when a woman was in charge, Dan didn't get cast. What a crazy, random happenstance.

(I can't make this fit in any thread, so I'm putting it here. It's general season talk about this season, but not about past seasons or fixing the show or anything.) After last night, I have a new least favorite season of Survivor, regardless of who wins. Congratulations, Brian Heidik, you're no longer the worst of the worst. Before last night, this season was bottom 5. Because while what happened with Dan was awful, production handled it like a big, dumb, arrogant corporation. They were tone-deaf and clueless and tried to pretend people cared about the game, with their big gold "you tried" sticker. They tried, you guys. They talked to people! They warned the guy! But after last night, I see them as much more nefarious, much more cowardly, spineless human beings. Because they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not care about the contestants. At all. I probably should've realized this when they weren't giving the contestants antibiotics for their infections before, you know, Caleb almost died in Kaoh Rong, but I naively thought they did sort of care about these people's well-being. But the fact that they removed Dan after he went after -- gasp! -- a crew member is such a slimy, transparent, cover-your-ass move that it almost makes me ill. They made a caste system for sexual harassment. Contestants: fine. Production: perish the thought! This is not to minimize the victim in the crew, but it never would've happened had they treated contestants like human beings, instead of offering a version of the shruggie emoji, all "oh well! That's the game!" I get there's legal and financial motives and blah blah blah, but honestly, the fact that this show looked at one woman being harassed and was like "eh, seems fine to me" but changed their tune when it was a member of the crew turns my stomach. Kellee was less than. Kellee was dehumanized. Kellee was sacrificed so The Almighty Game could continue. But this woman on the crew -- well. We can't have that, can we? It's the living embodiment of "I don't care about women's rights, except if it's my daughter/mom/sister" and I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed in 2019, but here we are. And for that reason, Island of the Idols, you are the worst season in Survivor history. Because you wouldn't lift a finger to defend the contestants, but you sure circled the wagons around one of your own. Because all women are equal, but some are more equal than others. And if all Survivor seasons are equal, then this season is the absolute worst ever.

Moving this rant to another thread where it might work better, so ... past seasons. Anybody know why Nick Wilson's Twitter account is protected now? Was it always? That's weird, right? (I got nothing).

I'm talking the last few episodes, when Kellee was gone. To attempt to keep on topic, I'll talk this episode. Dan was shown as part of the guy alliance with Tommy and Dean. He was shown making plans about the vote (with Janet, I believe). As an example, in the last few episodes, he got extended strategy confessionals. In fact, he was essentially rewarded since his victim (all of them, save Lauren, actually) was voted out. He was re-normalized, re-integrated into the narrative (remember the Janet "let's work together and be best buddies again" scene). But next to none of his screentime had an effect on the game. Almost all of it could've been edited out. There was no reason to see him after the double episode, except for the family visit and now, to say he was removed. But his neutral/positive screentime actually increased after Kellee was voted out, and my question is why? Why didn't they Purple Kelly the sexual harasser these last few episodes, and especially this one? Make him irrelevant to the game, because he was, and it's what he deserved. (cue that whole "microcosm of society" thing.)

Having just watched this episode, I have a lot of thoughts, but one keeps standing out: After the double episode ... why didn't Dan get the Purple edit? Show his groping of all the young women, establish him as a sexual harasser and then ... erase him from the narrative. Why did he continue to get confessionals? Why did he continue to get airtime? He did next to nothing, strategy-wise other than exist in the dominant alliance. There was no reason to show him much of the time. There was no reason to show people talking about him. After the Kellee episode, he should've faded to the background. Spare the viewers seeing his predatory mug, week after week. It's not like production didn't know what was going to happen a few episodes later. And that kind of says all you need to know about production. That they thought once upon a time that a woman who was given no clothes and quit the game (the infamous Purple Kelly) was worthy of erasure, but a man who sexually harassed multiple women was owed screentime. Survivor really should stop calling itself a microcosm of society, because the sad and unfunny jokes keep writing themselves.

I hate to be so blunt, but: no. Zeke said it best when all this first happened: https://twitter.com/zekerchief/status/1195057089120362496?s=20 I haven't even watched what sounds like a pure dumpster fire of an episode, but this can't be said enough. It was not and never was Kellee's responsibility to take action. It was production's responsibility, period, end of story. So, I guess all sexual harassment is equal, but some sexual harassment is more equal than others, huh, CBS? Probst? Burnett? Bueller?

Here's the thing about Thingamajig. If it's who's been speculated, I guarantee nobody on that panel knows who he is. It's one thing to have people where you haven't heard of them in a while (like T-Pain last year), but it's another to have C-list sports stars who nobody on that panel has a prayer of guessing. They're all going to fake like they know him, but it's not like this guy is LeBron James or Stephen Curry, or even Antonio Brown or Terry Bradshaw last year. And I feel that utterly goes against the spirit of the show. Theoretically, the judges have to be able to guess your identity because you sort of have to be ... famous. And Nicole pulling random Orlando Magic stars out of her rear end means they're going to try their darndest to convince us this guy really is famous, you guys, I promise. But I maintain Thingamajig is un-guessable, and that's another reason (other than his meh voice) that he has no business being on this show.

And from common sense, the use of the word and that very storyline were intertwined. I maintain production had no reason to sweep that under the rug if it was a nobody newbie who used racist language, but plenty of motive if it was one one of their returning "stars." And they certainly couldn't do an edit focusing on how awesome he was if they showed him using that language. He's the right demographic for liking that media, and it would explain a lot of things (Ron's targeting him early on, Julia's coolness about him in her essay). It's another instance of players being muzzled because they fear retribution from a show that not only controls their edits, but any potential returning opportunities. Meaning nobody who has a prayer at getting back on Survivor will ever speak the whole truth to power.

I'm joining the people from before who thinks that Jenny is getting fed guesses. For the Tree, she doesn't bite on the "smelly cat" bait, instead somehow pivoting back to SNL, when it hasn't been in the clue packages for weeks. Then she says she listens to the "tone" of the voice (which: Jenny wouldn't know "tone" if it fell on her head) and magically comes up with Ana Gasteyer? I also didn't think she initially had Michelle Williams as a guess for the Butterfly. If they were going to feed guesses to Jenny for anything, it should've been the more pop culture competitors (like Ninja). But the show trying to convince me that she recognizes "tone?" I was born at night, but not last night.

I don't think Lauren has a snowball's chance in hell of beating Tommy. The original plan was to vote out Lauren -- she was target 1. Sure, they covered themselves with the "wrapped around her finger," but I think it's as simple as they all (inexplicably, to me) like Tommy better. Elaine was down to vote Tommy out, but she sure barfed up her idol when he asked. If Lauren and Tommy get to the end, she will be seen as either riding his coattails or the more unlikable of the two. All of their allies seem to be Tommy-first, Lauren-second. She's playing for $100K unless she cuts him, in my mind.

I wasn't thinking that, but I am now. Substitute Tommy for Christian, and Dean for Gabby and I could see it. Girls aren't the only ones who get crushes on pretty boys (or what passes for "pretty boys" on Survivor).

Your mileage may vary. I personally have empathy for someone with a dying parent, regardless of circumstances, and understand why they would be emotional and cry at a family visit, because I feel that's the very basis of humanity. Everyone copes in their own way with death and loss. And he hadn't won yet. So, in that moment, I had empathy for him. I have less empathy for other contestants who are boo-hooing the mere sight of their family for "I haven't seen you in 30 -whatever days" reasons. I actually have the least amount of empathy for people who are running the game and boo-hoo at seeing their family. If you're on the outs with no one else to trust, I get it. If you're cruising in the catbird seat ... settle down, Beavis.

Something I've noticed about these challenges over the past few weeks is that I bet they're cool (or strenuous/interesting) to compete in, but they make for bad television. Watching people racing through a jungle carrying a gurney with sandbags on it for ... nearly the entire hour is almost as scintillating as watching these Mensa candidates do math. At least with the first part of last year's final in the desert (on bikes!), there was this sense of vast, open space and it made for some epic shots. But the team final is confusing. When the two teams were jostling each other, I lost all sense of perspective. And even the challenges at the checkpoints were just people screaming at each other to finish. If someone struggles at a checkpoint, and someone else passes them -- I get that. Two people crying over not being able to do math versus one person on the other team and ... yeah, you lose me. I thought the Ashley vs Nany "super-elimination" through the jungle last week was great -- there was a sense of urgency and it allowed us a look at each of them as competitors. This is a mess. If they're gonna do teams, put them on a field and have them settle it in a game. But "teams carry some stuff together and then do individual challenges" is so odd. And kind of boring. Hope it gets better next week. ::yawns::

I will say the only time I thought this was appropriate was on Millennials vs Gen X, when Adam's mother was actually dying, and he had a reason to fall to his knees and cry. Regardless of one might think of his decision to be on the show, crying about seeing someone in your family who has information about the condition of your dying mother is not an over-the-top reaction. But I wish they'd shake these family visits up, like they did in Ghost Island. I loved the twist of choosing to leave your family member and go look for advantages, like Wendell did. And they had the perfect opportunity to do that with Rob and Sandra's Zombie Head Island this season. That would've been better TV than "blah blah challenge, now we have a feast." Anybody else notice that Lauren's boyfriend had a similar type to Tommy? (taller young white guy with a beard?) Gee, wonder why she trusts Tommy so much.

The show has had unlikable groups before at this point. But other than Noura and maybe Elaine (though she's been toned down considerably), I can't remember a group that was so devoid of charisma or interest or anything that makes them remotely memorable in a positive way. The majority alliance is this faceless group of nobodies that will never be asked back for a returning player season because we all will forget them as soon as the show is done. I think we had this last year, but Rick Devens covered for a lot of (bad TV) sins. But Rick Devens ain't walking through that door, so we're left with this ... bunch. I can't remember a season where I've gotten to the point where I literally don't care who wins. They're all boring, unmemorable (or unhinged in Noura's case) people who've been tainted in some way, either through unearned arrogance or being Dan-adjacent or being ... Dan. They're not particularly good TV, I don't think any of them are particularly great people and I'm watching at this point to see who's left standing at the end of this trainwreck and for some comeuppance at the reunion. And that's it.

I don't want to see Sia at all. They have to get through a lot of stuff at the reunion, including previewing next season, and her being there is a tacit acceptance of the show's behavior. "Oh, it's back to fun, happy Survivor, don't we feel good about ourselves?" Nope. I want an uncomfortable reunion. I want people squirming. I want people walking out. You forced this on our eyeballs, Survivor -- now lie in it. There should be only two things at this reunion: 1) a serious discussion about the giant mess the show created by openly condoning sexual harassment (whether they admit it or not) and 2) a preview for (and some discussion about) next season. I'd like it to be 80/20, but I'll settle for 50/50. Any other garbage about Kids Predict the Vote or mini-interviews with the booted contestants or especially the show's self-congratulatory promotion of Sia as their biggest superest most famous fan EVAH is not welcomed by me this year. You changed the rules, Survivor -- forgive me if I hold you to them. So, stay home, Sia -- make Survivor wallow in the mess they created. Don't prop them up and be complicit in it. Because if she shows up, that's exactly what she's doing.

Survivor 39 is canceled. Survivor 40 is canceled. This is the only Survivor that exists now: