Eolivet

I also can't shake the feeling that if Adam didn't have something to hide, he'd have gone along with it, as well (especially given his "Rob-as-godfather" remarks earlier). Adam doesn't challenge threats, he hides behind them, so this struck me as out of character (notice how Jeremy, king of reducing your threat level, said nothing.) I also think Adam would've kept his mouth shut if he was "innocent." But he wasn't. The question is did anyone catch to the fact that he wasn't? (Silly Rob, didn't you know that all you had to do was corner Ben before tribal, say the word "idols" and he would've blurted out, "Denise has the idol! And it's a two-part idol! And she gave the other half to Adam! And I helped her find it, I'm sorry, please be merciful!")

Because Adam had an idol in his bag to hide and/or knew Denise did (I couldn't tell how he did it, but I think it was under the flap. Also helped that he was way on the end of the row). I actually thought that's the one time I saw his nervousness get the best of him. You don't want to be the one challenging Rob when everyone else is complying. You go along to get along and make your move later. Given how Adam completely escaped being a newschooler target (I was floored when Ethan and Rob were like "Well, let's vote out a newschooler guy and our only options are Ben or Jeremy"), I thought challenging Rob was a bad move. If Rob was more on his game, he'd have seen it as a red flag: that the one person squawking about it probably has something to hide.

Refresh my memory: is this the same half-idol that felled Scot/Jason in Kaoh Rong when Tai wouldn't give up the second part? It looked like it, but it didn't seem clear how it needed to be played this time. Presumably you'd have to play it at the same time, and on the same person? Interesting they brought that idol back into play in this season, which basically means you cannot keep an idol completely secret. Meaning these players have to trust at least one person. Easier said than done.

I know all these people sort of know each other (some more than others), but I cannot with all these people who only know Parvati socially calling her "Parv" behind her back. Even Rob didn't call her Parv. Did Amanda call her Parv? Young whippersnappers, show some respect for Survivor royalty.

Survivor Millennials vs Gen X: Season of empathy, of people finding their voice and strength, opening up to one another, sharing secrets and pain of all sorts, from sexual identity to personal tragedy. Survivor Worlds Apart: Season of bullying and mansplaining, of misogyny and outright nastiness, terrible human beings acting terribly. Or their two reunion shows: Adam, love him or hate him, in a flood of tears, relaying his mom's final moments as his castmates offer words of encouragement and support. Dan Foley, complaining loudly about the editing, and Will's wife yelling from the audience that he was portrayed unfairly. Golly, Tyler, I'm stumped, too.

Bringing this to the media thread, as it's about the ET clip at the premiere party:

I personally had less of a problem with Edge of Extinction up until the merge, because at that point, you're sort of at the mercy of how well your tribe does versus your individual game. If they'd had one competition to get back into it at the merge (like the one Rick Devens won), it would bother me less. It's the "you, too, can suddenly get back into the game at F6" that has never felt fair to me. Once it reaches the individual immunity stage of the game, there should be no recourse for getting voted out. Then you go to the jury. As a tribe, maybe there's some wiggle room.

Bringing this over from the media thread. What we didn't see at tribal council. Credit where credit is due. The fact that Adam never got up was a pretty effective way of communicating to anyone unsure about voting not-Adam that he trusted them. That he wasn't running around, making his own plans and making people nervous that their name was being thrown out. That maybe the best thing for all of them would be to get rid of the guy who made the rookie mistake of disappearing for hours at a time, making an alliance and then lying badly about it. Even Denise was up and about. For Adam to keep his seat during all that chaos is extremely disciplined and dare I say, impressive. (He's still no Malcolm, however.)

Moving this from the episode thread: This. Here's my problem with Ben's win, the further away it gets from his season. He's not the first person to benefit from a twist. But he may be the first person to benefit from a twist without making one strategic move by himself, or having any semblance of a late-game social game. As I recall, he had neither. He would've been out at 5, 6, 7, 8 without all those idols. And I get winning immunity is a legitimate way to win the game (heck, my personal five-tool player of the 30s, Nick, wouldn't have won without winning immunity at the end). But to contrast with Nick, Nick laid a lot of groundwork to get where he was. He built relationships, he made alliances, he was on the bottom a few times. He worked his connections, got into a solid group and then got himself there himself by winning immunity. Ben had his biggest strategic move handed to him by Devon ("super-spy Ben"), he was persona non grata with every single alliance at F8, and then he idol-ed himself to 4, and was saved by a twist. He's not an illegitimate winner, but in my eyes, his win is one of the least impressive. Other than finding idols (which is "work" in and of itself), he didn't really have to do much. That's why I put him a shade above Mike Holloway in terms of useless winners. If you have to immunity your way to the end for a long time ... what are your skills? You can win competitions? You can find idols? What else did you do? And in Ben's case, it was "have a good backstory" and "not be Chrissy." (You could theoretically say the same thing about Adam, but at least he, and nearly every other winner, had to dig themselves out from something at one point ... by doing something other than literally digging in the sand. Was Ben ever a target prior to finding idols? From what I can recall, he was dragged along by Chrissy, until he was dragged into Devon and Ashley's group against Chrissy and was sort of along for the ride.) He was in the majority alliance in the Heroes, swapped into a tribe that never lost, then reabsorbed by Chrissy at the merge. Did he do one strategic thing by himself? Maybe others have better memories. Heck, at least Mike Holloway tried to screw over Second Worst Dan at the auction for the letters from home. Ben didn't even do that. So, his win isn't illegitimate, but on this current season, I can see why some question his inclusion for any other reason other than "recent winner" and "good backstory."

Did anybody else comment on how awesome it is that the tribal council pen is literally a dagger? "Is this a dagger I see before me?" Oh, and the skull for an idol ("Alas, poor Yorick") I approve of the quasi-Shakespearian theme. It's more fitting of a blood feud, a fight to the death than any overdone war metaphor they could've come up with (looking at you, Challenge).

Thanks for this (and thank you, Survivor Pravda -- sometimes it's good to report the truth) This adds to my suspicion this season is being under-edited, which I sort of guessed at that first frenetic pre-tribal council. They are trying to create the illusion of a fast-paced game by showing us ... very little. I was shocked only two people whispered at tribal council. This makes a ton more sense. I think the editors are so thrilled to have engaging people who know how to give confessionals back that they're going confessional-happy, and not showing enough action. Of all the ridiculous whispering sessions we've ever been treated to, and they cut this one? For ... what? More confessionals about the oldskool winners going "golly gee gosh, this game sure has changed." Show, don't tell, editors. Especially in this season. (And editors left Natalie -- Natalie! -- saying "Stick to the plan" on the cutting room floor? When "stick to the plan" was a thing in her season?! Wow. That shows very little institutional memory, and that's too bad. I'd hope they'd have people editing Survivor 40 who sort of remembered past Survivor seasons.)

I didn't love the editing of the first boot. It sort of came out of left field. I guess they're going for "surprise" this year (and by "surprise," they mean "we won't give you any real hints as to who the boot will be.") For how long Yul hasn't been in the game (and seemingly off social media), I'm so impressed that he knew about the poker alliance. Rob and Jeremy put that tribe on their backs. My god, the rest of them were beyond useless. Adam ......... 'nuff said.

I almost posted this back when the save was announced, but I didn't, so this looks much less impressive after the fact. But unlike Tim Gunn, I always thought that Christian would use the save on an outfit rather than a designer. Something he felt responsible for, where he felt he gave bad advice. And I could see how he felt responsible for Brittany. He encouraged her to make the satin shorts, even when she said she didn't have enough material. I can see how he could think he let Brittany down or steered her wrong as a mentor in that regard. And that's refreshing, because it had basically become the "sob story save." Another thing to like about Christian.

Oh man, just when I think I've heard and seen enough of Adam, his highlight reel to convert aliens into Survivor fans ends with him and Jay sharing an apartment. Not sure how effective that would be, but there are worse highlight reels.

I can't prove this at all, but when I saw Boston Rob "building" that giant shelter for him and Sandra, I went, "hmm, I wonder if that's EoE for Survivor 40." Complete with beds and fruit and a swing or whatever it had. The Edge of Winner's Extinction. But I will say, in terms of that article, I absolutely believe they needed EoE for Survivor 40, and I believe there are contestants who wouldn't have done it without it. To give up your friends, family and life to Fiji, only to get voted out after three days and then be kept away from your friends, family and life with no "chance to get back in the game?" No thanks, I'd rather stay home. I think it should be campaigned against for future seasons, but I think it was totally understandable for Survivor 40. For Andy Denhart to be outraged at that is a tad naive in my eyes. But I appreciate him (and Josh Howard and Shannon Gaitz) still going hard at Survivor, unlike Dalton Comrade Ross at Survivor Pravda, who just barfs out anything Probst says.

Trying to remember all the spec from last May ... Cochran got a gig as a writer on CBS' Picard show, so I don't think he was asked. Ditto JT, and I think it was because of Game Changers. I know Mike Holloway missed the cut (which is fine by me, since "win so they can't vote you out" isn't so much a winning strategy so much as ... they literally can't vote you out, so). Tina was I believe a late scratch due to age/illness? Earl's wife had a premature baby, I think, so he wouldn't do it. Despite speculation, I think ultimately they steered far, far away from anyone with personal issues (Hatch, Todd, Jenna). Vecepia wasn't asked, nor Chris D nor Natalie White. And it was confirmed early on that neither the 38 nor 39 winners were asked. (Ironically, all the sturm and drang was over Boston Rob supposedly dropping out, then wanting more money, and nobody ever guessed Amber was part of it. Best scoop ever!) If anybody remembers differently, feel free to correct me.

I know everyone has moved on from this, but I loved your write-up @Lady Calypso. Those are by far my two favorite seasons of the 30s, only I think DvG had better game play, while mvgx had stronger characters. I found that DvG had a generational character in Christian, a love-to-hate villain in Angelina, and likable guys in Davie and Nick, but I barely remember the rest of them as characters compared to the likes of David Wright and Jay and Adam and Zeke and Michaela (which isn't fair, considering three of those have returned on Survivor, so maybe it's not an equitable comparison, but it's how I feel). DvG had a lot of "flashy" game moments for me (love that minority vote split and "bing!" idol nullifier, and who could forget the blowback on Christian's idol that hit Gabby?) and I feel more people played their idols and advantages correctly than mvgx (they had a string of really bad idol plays, despite all their blindsides and the rock draw). I guess, to me, if you stripped out the players and only had me watch the game play, I would find DvG a more enjoyable season. But if you asked me to pick one cast to reassemble and watch them play again, I'd pick mvgx in a heartbeat. Just my two cents, keep the change.

So. Much. This. I think she should've been gone after episode 2. The fact she was able to stay in bed all day and then magically re-enter the competition? And basically force the judges to declare her work safe, or else they risk looking heartless when she had one day less to work (and everyone pitched in to help her). How was that fair to the other designers? And now, again, when she's sick and can't work and has people helping her, she winds up in the top? When she can barely make it through the day? If you need an ambulance or emergency medical care, or the other contestants have to call a medic on you (for the second time), you. should. go. home. Period. Full stop. I'm sure she's a lovely person, but this isn't Project Kindergarten. It's a competition with a huge cash prize, as Karlie likes to remind us. Send. Dayoung. Home. Please. For her health, and to be fair to the other designers who can make it through the competition without health issues.

There's something seriously wrong with this particular man's attitude towards women if he thought unwanted verbal harassment would result in a big cash tip. Do men actually think like this? This could explain so much about Dan.

I've been trying to come up with the right analogy for this and I think the closest I can get is that personal stories at final tribal council are Survivor steroids. Performance-enhancers. Do they change outcomes? No, but they pad stats, and boost numbers. To keep with the admittedly flawed analogy, they could turn no-hitters (what I consider a decisive win, with 1-2 votes against you) into perfect games (a unanimous winner). If you pitch a no-hitter, the opponent is trash against you. Maybe there will be a walk, a passed ball, something that allows a runner to reach base, but the pitcher still owns that no-hitter. But a perfect game is otherworldly. You're on another plane of existence. You take talented professional hitters and make them look foolish. You're so dominant that you don't allow for a single mistake. The two other unanimous winners who played a perfect game did it through pure game play, and force of personality and sheer likability and charisma. Jeremy may have done enough to merit a perfect game through game play alone, but he still "juiced" his win with his personal story at the end. So it's likely he still would be a unanimous winner, but he did use a performance-enhancing story. Adam, on the other hand, likely went into final tribal council with a no-hitter, but I think you could make a pretty strong argument that his personal story was a "performance-enhancer" that juiced his no-hitter, and changed it into a perfect game. Especially since we saw that otherwise, his game had several errors throughout the season. So, to me, changing the jury format was Survivor simply tightening up their steroid policy, in the hope of avoiding any more asterisks in the eyes of some fans down the road.

Ka-Pop was a decent pitch, but I was so distracted by the sweat/water stains all over the guy's shirt. Not even on his arm pits, but on his chest. Were those water balloons he was popping? Yikes.

This show is about the furthest thing away from anything I would watch (the last Star Wars movie I watched was Revenge of the Sith), but once Baby Yoda became a pop culture phenomenon, I had to. And I agree with everyone who says this is the true space Western (sorry, Firefly). When I described the Mandalorian to my mother, she said, "Oh, he sounds like the Lone Ranger" (which I'm sure others have said, too). What I loved about this show, and especially this episode, is the Mandalorian was unapologetically an Alpha male, gruff, no-nonsense space cowboy dude, but with none of the toxic masculinity we used to see from these types of characters. And while "tough guy's heart melted by a little child" isn't an original trope, I found it so compelling here. As we've allowed our male characters to be more emotional and vulnerable, to see what felt like a throwback, but with none of the things that made the archetype seem dated or problematic, was a breath of fresh air. I loved seeing the Mandalorian's "origin story" in this episode -- it was perfect and felt organic. I thought the direction was outstanding (not surprisingly). This show really snuck up on me, and I think it hit at a perfect moment in the zeitgeist. Independent of the Baby Yoda phenomenon, there's a lot of pushback towards so-called "beta males," and a vocal subsection of mostly men who feel today's men have become "soft" and seem to long for the way things used to be. The Mandalorian shows us that those old-fashioned values don't have to stand for intolerance. That honor, code and loyalty are independent of any ideology. And maybe it's me, but in 2019-2020, that feels almost revolutionary.

I think mvgx is one of the best cast seasons of the 30s. Eight of them have been on TV again (four on Survivor). And after the nastiness of the preceding season (and the hideous characters on Worlds Apart), it was kind of refreshing to me to have the biggest villain be ... the guy who stole food and bragged about it. I also love it for completely breaking out of the "Naviti Strong" mold (i.e., staying with one's original tribe). Tons of tribal and alliance-shifting, and the alliance that made it to F4 was 2 millennials, 2 Gen Xers. I loved the editing that season. That reward steal arc was brilliant -- with the foreshadowing and carrying through multiple episodes, and it gave an actual point to the family visit as part of an existing plot arc. And I do love Jay, who I think had the type of character arc you see more on a scripted drama than Survivor: chill surfer dude to low-key villain to a well-rounded, humanized character. That he kept Adam's secret about his mom and was loyal to Adam until the end, even though Adam kept lying to him and blindsiding him, was great TV, to me. That hammock scene was one of the most raw, emotional scenes I've ever seen on Survivor, and I cry real tears that Jay will likely never be on this show again because of the shows he's chosen to appear on since. He and Adam were roommates in LA, which validated their improbable closeness from the show, and that was a trip while it lasted. Anyway, I have a lot of feelings about mvgx, so I'll stop now.

Bringing this over from Ethan's thread, because I'm not entirely sure we watched the same person: I didn't think Adam played an old school game at all. He may have never turned on his post-merge alliance until the end, but I saw him as constantly playing both sides. Dippy high school kid Will saved that alliance's back by turning on Zeke, and Adam was the most vocal about getting him out next. He stabbed both Jay and David in the front, both of whom had shown him loyalty. So, I'm baffled where Ethan gets "playing with his heart" from. But if Adam can make other winners think he's nothing but that compassionate guy with the sad story, and completely ignore his gamebot style of play ... good on him, I guess? That'll be interesting to see.

I disliked Chrissy, so at the time, I was fine with Ben's win, but the more time has passed, the more he's just a shade above Mike Holloway in terms of useless winners for me. You can immunity your way to the end or idol-find your way to the end, but it's such a boring way to win, and proves nothing about your social game or any other skills. And I'll never get over that he was given credit for being a double agent to spy on Chrissy's alliance (the "super spy Ben" plan), when it was chill surfer Devon's idea. All Ben did was execute it. But it's not like he came up with it. Anyway, meh. Let's see if he has any semblance of a social game if other people happen to find idols, too.