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While I really enjoyed getting to see some of these actors work off one another, and some of the character dynamics, I've got to agree that I am getting really tired of the new "Law" VS "Order" format. I mean at this point it feels like any defense attorney worth their salt in New York just needs to get a key piece of evidence squashed or thrown out and then step back to watch the cops and the DA rip themselves to shreds on the blame game. If Stabler wanted to yell at someone about why Price had to cut that damn deal, he should have gone and yelled at Liv. It was her decision that backed the DA into that corner. It just feels like, at least with the mothership, the writers are more interested in making tension through driving a wedge between the cops and the DA, when the whole original premise was to show how the two systems need to work side by side.

If S2 centered around Obi-Wan learning from Force Ghost Qui-Gon, while simultaneously helping to establish other canon Force Users like Corran Horn, and possibly following the rise/growth of the Rebellion, I would be a happy fangirl. If S2 doesn't happen, just those couple of lines from Qui-Gon and getting to see Obi-Wan is not alone, is as happy an ending as I could have hoped for, given events to come in ANH.

Good on Romy for walking off!! That was the biggest pile of bulls**t I have ever watched.

To clarify, I have no issue what so ever with Carolyn coming back. I like Carolyn. But I do think that this "season of rebirth" spin is BS. I think there was a stink as a result of the timer being turned off, etc and those are the main motivators behind Carolyn being back. Maybe it was this POV of mine, but when I say "that was embarrassing to watch" I feel like they were trying to spin the happy narrative, but I kept seeing cracks and tension between Carolyn, Molly and the judges.

Wow, was that awkward to watch.

I agree with some of the other posters, I feel like after last week's 'cookie salad' debacle, Diego was over it. He just comes across as too good a baker not to understand how the addition of a soup/liquid into his cake batter would make it overly soft and what needs to be done to counter the extra moisture. Add into that the 'peanut butter/jelly' flavor, it felt like he was just doubling down "if my cake doesn't fall apart, it's going to taste WEIRD". Honestly it looked like he about jogged out that door with a fist bump of joy after being eliminated.

Count me on the liked the episode as well train. I felt like this was the show hitting its stride and the actors getting more comfortable in their characters. Definitely one to re-watch and enjoy!

I was coming here to suggest just this. For an "adult" show I do not find her attitude, antics or even her personality suitable. I mute her every time she shows up and try to pretend she's not there. The "Cookie Salad" main heat felt like an insult to all the bakers, some of them just tolerated it with more grace than others. I laughed that she gave Denise his 30 minute head start and as soon as the word "sprinkles" left her mouth, you could see him go from engaged to just 'nope'. He even said in a quick passing comment that he'd forgotten about it until the announcement came to the whole bake. I wish Romny had been on a different season. His bakes, skill level and creativity are fascinating to watch but I have so much second hand embarrassment for him being on this trainwreck. Add on to what everybody else has said, that he is getting ignored because he doesn't have a 'story' and I cringe.

For me, personally, it is Maroun who needs to go, or at least the actress. Maroun as a character seems written as a good foil for both McCoy and Price but I find the actress to be one note and unable to deliver the goods. I've watched L&O for years and almost every one of the female ADAs has brought power and passion to their roles, Maroun is just .. meh. Having watched Hugh Dancy in Hannibal and other works I honestly believe he is 'acting down' to Maroun's level. Either as a choice, or he is being directed to tone himself down in order not to obliterate her on screen. Especially in an episode where the narrative is written that she's supposed to be "right" and her male superiors are wrong. If you look at Dancy in scenes against McCoy, there is a lot more power in his acting and in Price as a character but with Maroun around he just goes flat.

I believe it could serve as a satisfying end to the series, if that's what happens. But I'd like there to be a Season 5 if they can continue to execute the quality they showed in 4.

No spoilers!! Just OMDAD thank you Fox for getting the eff out of the way and letting this show go to Netflix. This season was AMAZING

Ooof You guys make it hard to simply enjoy a show for it's escapism. 😧 I came here hoping to talk about the things I really find fun and refreshing about the show, from the characters to the writing and back. Is any show perfect, oh heck no, but still. Gonna go over in the 'I enjoy the show' corner of the sandbox and keep my opinions to myself.

From your fingertips to the writers' ears! That, actually, would be a good direction for those two characters, since we the audience appear to be watching the redemption arcs of these two characters. It could be an interesting set up to hammer home the idea into Lucifer's thick skull that even he could be forgiven; no tricks as a step in his continued character development arc. Though since I don't believe Pierce and Charlotte have every had any interaction beyond a very brief passing, I'm not holding my breath.

I've seen snippets of this episode already posted on Youtube from the Sunday viewing in Canada. Just from those snippets I would love to see Tom Ellis because he is knocking it out of the park. But I am so over the Magical Chloe factor that I can't bring myself to watch the show "live". I'll wait till it's out on Demand where I can fast forward anything with Chloe and watch the good stuff.

Linda never saw Luci's wings. His wings were cut off his back and held in a cargo container while he and Linda were hitting the sheets in Season One. It was Chloe who saw them at the auction house and said they were good cosplay.

Leo is without a doubt my favorite character on West Wing and Jenny, we hardly knew her long enough to really form an opinion. But I think it is important to remember that she did stand by him through his alcoholism and his drug addiction, through his going through rehab and also falling off the wagon. The dialogue that was quoted in the post I tried (and I think failed) to quote, if you read the first back and forth lines they are the classic exchange between a significant other and an alcoholic/drug addict. "Where have you been?" - Have you been out drinking?? "You were supposed to be back..." - Are you late and lying to cover up you've been passed out somewhere? It seems unfair since we the audience know he's been working and what the job is, but if you figure how many times Jenny had these sorts of conversations, when she had a young child at home and a husband who was coming home late because he was drunk, it puts a little more perspective on why, this time around, she just couldn't live with the niggling question "is it his job or the bottle??"

Without a doubt, anything that involves Chloe I 100% do not have any interest in watching. Every other storyline and character combination, I'm on board with what the writers are writing and interested to see how they develop. Chloe drags everything down.

Eh not sure how much stock I put in the idea of Cain as Samael's son, either in this mythology or theology in general, since Samael/Lucifer had already fallen before he tempted Eve with the apple. But theologians going to theologe. As for the whole kill a human thing, it does kind of make sense. Lucifer has made it clear that even as a fallen angel, he is still bound by Dad's rule "no killing humans." Cain is human, though an immortal one, so it makes sense that he would have wanted to test Lucifer to see if he'd break that rule, and what -if any- repercussions there were for breaking that rule. Though I'll admit, this is kinda a BIG plot hole that I hope the writer's address. After all, Lucifer has given his promise to try to help Cain shuffle off this mortal coil but ... why? If he wanted to stick it to Dad about the "no killing humans rule" he could just find someone like the sports agent from Season One and throw them a little harder this time. So far Lucifer has been pretty adamant about not being interested in killing humans, even when they piss him off. Punish them? You betcha. Kill them? Naahh. So why would he be all on board with Cain? My only explanation (and YMMV) is that Lucifer wants Cain to stick around, because Cain really is someone who can share the depth of Lucifer's "doneness" with Dad's meddling. Now he doesn't lie, so he may be taking the loophole of "I'll help you figure out a way, but you have to do it yourself/get someone else to do it to you" but I guess we'll see as the season progresses.

She just knocked him out.

Rewatch "Vegas with some Radish" it showed up there [ hammered home by his 'big brother' attitude towards Candy ] and (in my opinion) made that episode shine. Lucifer as big brother from Hell (literally) for his mortal friends? Sign me up! This dynamic with Chloe is 100xs better, in my opinion than the idea of a romantic attachment. It makes more sense and the platonic chemistry between Ellis and German is actually spot on. As usually I loved everybody and all the combinations in this episode. What was unusual was Chloe didn't bother me as much as usual. Huh ... show her being an effective detective, remove all the romantic nonsense between her and Pierce and her and Lucifer and what do you know.

This is going to be a little random, but it was something I've been thinking about in regards to Lucifer and his badassery vs his vulnerability around Chloe. I was thinking back to Season One and if I could change any one thing to go back to that time, it would be removing the entire "Lucifer becomes mortal around Chloe" piece. It just seems like that story choice has put the writers and the characters into a bit of a corner. Which got me thinking back over other shows and I remembered West Wing. In West Wing, Aaron Sorkin mentioned that he wanted a scene with the President watching soap operas, but he needed a reason for the President to be on bed rest during the day to be watching fluff TV. So he decided to give the President and MS diagnosis. As anyone who has watched West Wing knows, the MS storyline took on a life of it's own and grew beyond its original purpose, driving the show in many different directions, maybe even in ways it wasn't originally intended to go!. I feel like this entire "Lucifer is mortal around Chloe" thing is something similar. The writers needed a quick way to extend the whole "Chloe doesn't accept that he's immortal, but how do we do that without her looking like an idiot ... MAKE HIM MORTAL AROUND JUST HER!" And now this has taken on a life of it's own and become this big elephant in the room that the writers can't figure out how to walk back/and or get rid of going forward. And it's watering down the effectiveness of both Lucifer and Chloe.

It's been awhile since I've felt like commenting on an episode, but I had to come here and ..... Pretty much say everything that has already been said! I liked this episode. I felt it was the right balance of supernatural elements ( Lucifer, FINALLY getting to be Lucifer with the gang and also all the suggestions for killing Cain ) and procedural, without the procedural dragging down the storyline the way it has this season. I also agree that Pierce is now interesting, which was not something I expected at the beginning of the season! For that reason alone I keep wanting to hope, for the actress's sake, that the writers have something decent up their sleeve for Chloe. When LG is doing scenes like the great girls night out episode and some of her more off the wall stuff I see flashes of a character who could be engaging. But the rest of the time, she is such a cardboard cut out of a plot device rather than a character I'm interested in. Lucifer, Maze, Linda, Amenadiel, Dan, Charlotte, Ella, Pierce ... 7 characters (which is a lot) and I am interested whenever any one of them or combination of them is on the screen. Chloe? I use her screen time for bathroom breaks. PS: I would also list Trixie among the 7 characters, but she isn't really a regular or a serious storyline of her own. But fear not, when she's on the screen I am still riveted!

My take on it? The show is suggesting that Philip did have something of an extended affair with the ballerina but that these are events that in fact are rumored but UNPROVEN so they cannot just spell it out in the show. The actual Royal Family would never allow such a thing. The show did the same thing with the 5 month tour. If you think back over the scenes, we never actually see Philip take up an offer, we see Mike (who it is public fact that he was sued for divorced for adultery) and it is suggested that Philip did as well but never stated as fact. So the picture, and Elizabeth's comment about Switzerland was the suggestion that Philip had a regular liaison with the ballerina and she was saying to him that if he needed to have affairs in order to get through being a part of the family in public, then she was prepared to look the other way. This makes what Philip said, that he didn't want her to look the other way, that he wanted her to look to him, to allow herself the emotion to insist that he be her's and only her's, that much more powerful. And the very end shot, we see the entire season come full circle with Philip finally understanding and embracing his role within the family. He keeps all the cats in line for her and navigates the emotions of the family, while Elizabeth wears the public face of duty.

My speculation was put behind a spoiler cut because it contained comic spoilers, but this "another pantheon" separate from the Silver City is my theory at this point. In which case I don't think we've seen the last of the Sinnerman.

Comic spoiler time