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Did some thinking about this over night and just a few additional thoughts come to mind. I'm still done with this season. Not interested in watching any more of these people, even though Charlie, Maria and Ben could have been watchable, and I think I've narrowed down the source of my annoyance. Jeff, last night, highlighted what I don't like about this group of people, with his cushion and popcorn. If I wanted to watch Jerry Springer, I'd watch Jerry Springer. If I wanted to watch chaos, conspiracy theories, and egotistical 'ME, ME, ME' people, I'd watch Jerry Springer. I used to watch Survivor for the challenges, the strategy playing and because the editing was such that I let myself become involved in these peoples' journeys. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but it seems to me that in previous seasons, people played their game, and THEN pitched their game to the jury. Now it seems as if people have their pitch to the jury pre-planned and then twist themselves into knots trying to fit their game play to the narrative. People aren't playing the game. I can't help wondering what today's casting choices would do if they were made to play old school style Survivor. No idols, no advantages, no SITD, the only immunity is the necklace/statue.

I’m out. If it was just one unlikeable personality I’d hang in there but with the exception of Charlie and Ben every remaining player grates on my nerves.

Okay, I’m tapping out. This season is too ego/stupid driven and the remaining players are too unlikable to keep watching. Fingers crossed that 47 is more palatable.

Whatever season MaryAnne was in I didn’t watch 🤷‍♀️

Some season a person is going to have an idol and KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT But this is not that season 🤦🏼‍♀️

Shut Up Liz 🙄

It isn’t a conspiracy exactly, but it does read as scripted when a baker who hasn’t put a bake wrong and who is obviously talented suddenly makes absolutely amateur mistakes in back to back bakes in a near penultimate episode.

LOL!! I love Charlie Venus can leave sooner rather than later

In what universe does that purple monstrosity top the decorating efforts of any of the other five cakes? Says it's the best tasting all you want but I didn't see a "flower" anywhere in that purple mess.

Is this the first time someone has won the pre-heat and gotten no advantage? I watch all the baking championships (Halloween, Holiday, Spring, etc) and I honestly can’t remember a contestant winning the pre-heat and no advantage. All I can think is maybe since they’ve scaled back the stupid “twists” that they ditched the “you won’t have to do the twist” advantage and that’s why Alec didn’t get an advantage.

Random, but I like how supportive the producer and the dancers are being.

The numbers that will be the most telling will be the numbers for the second and third episodes. IF there is any drop off of viewership and if so, how much. Some audience members aren't going to care and will be happy to keep watching. Some audience members -myself included- aren't going to appreciate being preached at, which is what drove a lot of us away from 13's run, and we'll drop this and spend our money elsewhere. People were really excited for the return of RTD, Tennant and Tate. The marketing has been brilliant and as a huge Donna Noble fan, I was definitely looking forward to seeing how her story got resolved. I was holding off picking up Disney + until all 3 episodes dropped, just because I like to binge watch, but I was really excited to give Doctor Who a second chance. As a viewer I definitely agree that Doctor Who has always been liberal leaning. That said, I don't enjoy being preached at in my entertainment. I was all on board to watch, until I saw the clips of the "something a male presenting Time Lord will never understand" came out. That sealed the deal for me. I'll keep my money in my pocket, and House of Mouse has one less subscriber.

I've been thinking about the editing choices in this episode, especially in light of the previews for next week. Over all I think this episode, if this was scripted television, would fall under the category of 'filler'. It was pretty predictable and played out in a by the numbers fashion, BUT it's real purpose was to set up the next couple of episodes. In my opinion, the editors (and I may be giving them too much credit) did a good job of show some fractures developing in the Reba core 4. To me, it seemed like Julie was pretty pissed at Dee calling the shot on Kendra and I think the edit may have been designed to expose that Julie is starting to realize that if she goes to final 4 with Reba, unless she wins immunity, she is getting no higher than 4th place. Emily is also shown, by the edits, to have a clue that if she stays lockstep with Drew/Austin, she is at best number 4, but probably number 5 below Dee and Julie. I actually really like Emily. I like that we saw her mess up in the beginning, then course correct and SURVIVE this far. Especially on a train wreck of a team like Lulu. I think that if she had tried to make a move earlier, she'd have shot herself in the foot, but I think NOW is the time for her to make a move. If she can get to Julie (if she knows enough to get to Julie) and lay out a strategy that takes her and Julie to final two, then she may be able to get Julie to flip on the Reba 4 and knock out Dee

Voting off Sifu was a bad long term strategic play. They spent the whole episode (okay the editors spent the whole episode) hammering away at the point of how vindictive Bruce is, how he holds a grudge and it makes working with him in game play hard. They had 1 shot to vote him off before the jury!! Now whoever ends up in the final three is going to have to face him and his vindictiveness on the jury. At this point, if I was Kellie, as much as it seems like working with Bruce is akin to working with a root canal, the best play would be to take him all the way to final three and hope his skill at having pissed off everybody on the jury makes him a nice fat goat to sacrifice.

Just to clarify. I did not mean to imply that the character of CJ made bumbling idiots out of anyone. It was the WRITERS/PRODUCER who deliberately made bumbling idiots out of Josh, Toby and Will in the episode, so they could write/highlight the need for a new CoS and then put the spotlight on CJ as being so deft at identifying how they needed to organize, that she is the obvious/only choice.

Yeah, that's a pretty well known bit of commentary from various sources. The change being that the double blow of losing John Spencer (Leo) and the West Wing was more sadness then the producers wanted to heap onto everybody; cast/audience/etc.

Okay. Re-watch # 100+ in the books, time for some unpopular opinions. 1. I found the storyline of CJ becoming COS to be patronizing, forced and just bad. I am a female viewer and I feel about that storyline the way Ainsley did about the ERA. I did not need John Wells and the other MALE writers and producers of the show to come along and patronize me, as a viewer, with the message of "Oh look at us being all progressive and making this female character the second most powerful person in the WW universe!!" Do not get me wrong. Allison Janney is a FANTASTIC actress and up until she was made COS I loved the character of CJ Cregg. But 3/4 of an episode devoted to making bumbling idiots out of Josh and Toby, does NOT set up an organic reason to have CJ jump so many more qualified people into the COS office. Josh was probably the in universe obvious successor, but in my opinion there was more set up from season 1 for Toby to go into the role. Toby, who had been with the President since the first campaign. Toby, who was shown to have political savvy. Toby, who could have been an interesting foil for the President, because while Leo knew how to 'handle' the President, Toby had been shown he wasn't afraid to stand his ground and openly argue with the President. We (the audience) had seen that when Toby had the right read on a situation, he usually had the politics to be 5 moves ahead on the board. COS wasn't just a role about how many balls you can keep in the air; that was just part of the job. It was also about being able to read the political landscape and have position 5 steps ahead. CG Cregg was a PR genius, but not a political operative. 2. I hate, loath, despise the Kate Harper character. That's it. Just, I FF anytime she is on the screen. 3. The decision to introduce conflict in the Jed/Leo friendship was stupid. I hate discussing Leo's health issues given the tragic loss of John Spencer, but if Wells absolutely had to move the pieces around on the board, he could have moved that SL up into Season 5 and bumped Leo out of the COS role earlier. Instead of assassinating his character and one of the core relationships in the show. Honestly, that whole choice stinks of "omg this bromance is icky and interferes with our ability to write 'will they/won't they' soap opera with our female characters. We need to get the male friendship out of our show." Stargate SG-1 went the same route with Jack and Daniel. 4. Santos was too much Jed Bartlett 2.0 and I loathed his wife. Sorkin teased Hoynes return back in Season 4 and honestly? Given what initially drew me to the West Wing in the earlier seasons, I would have been more engaged watching the behind the scenes kingmaking Leo, Josh and Co would have had to engage in to rebuild Hoynes into a viable candidate. Especially against Vinnick.

On something like my 20th re-watch. Disclaimer - I have watched the whole series, and there are specific episodes in Seasons 5/6/7 that I will re-watch if I am in the mood. But on the whole? Am I the only one who, on re-watch, imagines the series "ends" at 4x21?

Both. Can we have both? I'm torn, because I love David and Michael in their roles, but I would also devour a Neil Gaimen book covering the directions season 3 could go with all of this. I'm just happy he's saying he will write it if for some reason there is no way to get a Season 3 on air. I'd hate for Good Omens lore to end where it did for Season 2.

Ah yes! It has been awhile since I read the book. Okay so Crowley was always an angel, but I didn't think he was Lightbringer levels. Though that gives more weight to the idea that maybe he was originally Raphael!

That could be a good fit! I lean towards Samael, but Raphael makes a lot of sense also.

Both good questions. In Neil Gamine's Lucifer comics demons are actually the children of Lilith, who was Adam's first wife, with Fallen angels as the Top Tier commanders of Hell. Just like there are tiers of angels in Heaven. I had always figured in Good Omen's canon, Aziraphale and Crowley were equal tiers in Heaven and Hell respectively. Angel of the East Gate is a couple steps down from an Archangel, and Crowley was never addressed as a Grand Duke or even a Duke of Hell, but he was the ambassador for Earth, so a couple steps down from the Dark Council It was a bit of a surprise seeing Crowley as an angel, but then I was like "okay, yeah that works" except they went the step further and made him the Lightbringer, and I was like "wait, what??" AND doubled down on him questioning Yahweh, which has always been a personality trait attributed to Samael. I don't think Crowley is meant to be Lucifer/Satan in Good Omens canon, because like you said, we've seen that character in Season 1 and in the books, but I do feel like Season 2 we got hints that Crowley is a few more rungs higher up the ladder than anyone thought in Season 1.

Aziraphale's always wanted to believe that Heaven = good. The Metatron only had to play on that angle, with a side of "well, with YOU at the helm how could it be anything but good?" I don't know that the coffee would have had to be doctored in any way to push Aziraphale in that direction. Like Crowley told Gabriel, Aziraphale wasn't there when Gabriel and the others were perfectly ready, if not eager, to destroy Aziraphale with fire at the end of Season One. Aziraphale only experienced the Hell side of things and OF COURSE Hell would try to destroy Crowley but HEAVEN would never be so cruel ... /s So Aziraphale is still pretty faithful to the general idea of Heaven = Good. I think, looking back over the flashbacks in particular, we see this set up through the whole of season 2. Crowley has always questioned, ever since the beginning, and Aziraphale has always held on to Faith. We saw it with the formation of nebula, with Job, etc. What I found interesting were the subtle suggestions that Crowley = Samael = Lucifer. It has been awhile since I read Good Omens but as I recall in the book and then in season 1 it was always made pretty clear that Aziraphale was an angel from the start and Crowley was a demon from the start, and Satan was Satan. There wasn't any suggestion that Crowley was a fallen angel. I love Neil Gamine. Full stop, just getting that out there. He is also the creator of my favorite DC comic series Lucifer. Maybe I'm seeing things through that lens, but Season 2 Crowley -in my opinion- was starting to show shades of the philosophy in the Lucifer graphic novels. In the graphic novels, Michael and Samael (Lucifer) are used by Yahweh in conjunction to create the universe. Michael creates matter and Samael brings the power of light = Big Bang. Sound familiar? In Season 2 we see Crowley as an angel. We see him using the "matter/idea" created by 'upstairs' but he does the "Let there be light" setting off the Big Bang/creation of the universe. Also in the graphic novels, just like in the final episode of Season 2, Lucifer is perfectly capable of going back up and into Heaven and still has all his angelic clout when he's in the Silver City. Same as we see with Crowley, plus there is the line from Muriel about "You have to be a throne or dominion or higher..." and Crowley has no trouble accessing that level. I don't know if the way the book and season 1 established things would allow for Crowley to ultimately = Lucifer. But I am thinking his angelic name might be Samael

You're probably right. Something I noticed, but forgot to mention in my first comment, were the little nods to Burn Notice. I found it fun and enjoyed the wink wink. I think, for my own self, I'm going to let "first partner" serve two purposes. As another nod to BN and Bruce Campbell, but also as a resolution of where Bernard ended up. 😆