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Random thought, that finally beat itself into my head almost two weeks after I first watched the episode. In one conversation with Father Frank, Lucifer mentions that he doesn't bother talking to his Father anymore because he believes his Father stopped listening long ago. Then, at the end of the episode, though he's hurt and angry ... he's talking to God.

If it helps with the fanwanking, the way I explain it is that when Amenadiel slows down time, he's doing it to whole groups on a large scale, which could be considered 'Powerful' capital P. When Luci zips himself from spot to spot, he's just affecting himself, 1 being which is a much smaller expression of power.

Well, there you're hitting upon the main theme of the source material. The idea that as the omnipotent being of creation, everything ... EVERYTHING is by Yahweh's design. That is what Lucifer rebelled against, the idea that his will meant nothing because everything was predestined according to his Father's Plan. Remember Father Frank brought up that core belief "I believe that God has a plan" and Lucifer countered with "Well yes BUT why does everybody believe it's a good one?" Lucifer's "fall" was predestined because Yahweh needed him to rule Hell (the question is whether this was a punishment or a gift). This is why Lucifer "retired" in the first place. He came to realize that what he thought was rebellion, served his Father's Plan all along. So from the perspective of the mythos the series is based upon, Yahweh is well aware of what is happening with Amenadiel as it is 'predestined'. That he's obviously taking a hands off approach (he hasn't stepped in to stop Amenadiel, just as he never stepped in to destroy Lucifer) might be something that's answered in the next 3 episodes as we see how Lucifer reacts and responds to his brother's machinations.

The following is pure speculation but I was thinking of another possible direction. For the most part we've approached these changes that Lucifer is under going, particularly his mortality as a punishment. What if they're not. What if the show runners are going to pull from the source material the idea of Yahweh 'retiring' and all this is part of HIS plan to groom his favorite son towards redemption with the hope of Lucifer taking back over the reins? It would kind of explain why DAD is allowing Amenadiel to wreck havoc as it is part of the Plan for Amenadiel to take over as the ruler of Hell with Lucifer being re-positioned. I'm also remembering a scene in the comics where an angel actually is 'destroyed' in order to come back stronger and more whole than he had been. We keep worrying about Malcolm shooting/'killing' Lucifer but keep forgetting that 'killing' an angel isn't quite the same as killing a mortal. Amenadiel is thinking it will send Lucifer back to Hell but that might just backfire on him spectacularly. In which case, maybe that whole scenario is what the show runners have had to save their special effects budget for, which is why we've been a bit light on the special powers and also dealing with the bad green screens recently. ;)

In the comics ....

To be fair I think Luci would do handsprings of joy if Chloe got a restraining order that kept Trixie away from him. Think about it, Luci has never come near Trixie deliberately. The first time he came to the house, he knocked on the door (and yes invited himself on in) but was interacting with Chloe, when Trixie showed up. The second time, Trixie had left the house with her Dad before Lucifer showed up and started to cook breakfast, then came back. Even this last time, when he invited himself over, it was when Trixie wasn't around. Trixie decided to leave the ground zero of an argument going on between two people she loves (her Mom and her Grandmother), use her mother's Uber account and travel to the club/house of someone who "cheers her up" says more about her home life than it does about Lucifer. Not to imply that Chloe is a bad parent, she's portrayed as trying her best but it doesn't really appear like the most comfortable of situations for an 8 year old who is obviously so used to hearing adults fighting around her that she knows when to stick her fingers in her ears.

I swear Malcolm said "sleepy time" or something similar about Dan and also, why would he bother sending Chloe a 'break up' text if he'd just killed the guy? So I suspect Dan is still alive, just in HOOOOOOTTTT water! I agree that this episode the case was dull and the 'day actors' felt more like props to the main cast (as opposed to Father Frank last week) but I had such a good time watching Maze/Linda and Trixie/Maze and Lucifer/Chloe/Dan that I honestly didn't mind the case, I was having too much fun with the characters. Yes it was a little anvilicious, all the father/son, mother/daughter, parent/child going on as framing for Lucifer and his "Daddy" issues but when Chloe called him out, point blank on that, I figured we were in for that kind of episode. As anvilicious as it was, particularly the Sous Chef/Amenadiel vs Father/Favorite Son angle I'm sold on looking forward to what it's developing for the end of the season. And I agree, Second Season please FOX!! The last bit, with drunk Chloe and Lucifer behaving himself IN SPITE of himself was predictable but at the same time Ellis and German made it adorable so I was okay with the predictable. His little "Oh God" at the end ... Luci you are so in over your head, just close your eyes and think WWTD (What Would Trixie Do). I'll admit, while I can usually follow the more subtle stuff the writers throw down, I was confused by the restaurant fire escape. I mean, they were supposedly in a dire situation, Lucifer got Chloe out and had her head covered so she couldn't see any "powers" at play but yet he ended up getting burned in the process. So I'm not sure what to think. Did he not get burned as badly as a mortal would? Is that why he carried Chloe rather than letting her stay on her own feet, he was still throwing out some sort of shielding, or ... what? I feel like something got left on the cutting room floor that would have explained what they were going for with that. Oh and who was it who was looking for INXS "Devil Inside"? We got it this episode! :D As always the music for this show was spot on!

Thing is, that's actually a major theme of the comics. So Luci as savior in spite of himself, particularly the way he was with the guy on the roof in "Eh Tu Doctor", is very much in line with the source material's themes.

In the most recent episode topic "A Priest Walks into a bar" someone was talking about the nature of Lucifer's fall in the comics. I didn't want to answer there so rolled over here. Samael's Fall in the comics boils down to his fierce independence and that Indomitable Will. It expresses itself when he moves against Gabriel over the fate of young Mazikeen and Briadach. Gabriel wants to judge and punish (read kill) the children under the claim that it is what Yahweh says. Samael insists that it's what Gabriel says, not Yahweh and that angels should express Free Will of thought rather than just preach a party line. Michael, sits out the disagreement though kind of on the same premise that Samael argues; ie: they are Yahweh's tools, not Yahweh and thus have no right to judge. Then Samael renounces his 'name' and takes on his title 'Lucifer' and flies off with 1/3 of the host at his heels in agreement with his position. We get the war, where Michael and Gabriel gain the upper hand, imploring their brother Lucifer to end this before he is destroyed. Lucifer refuses to bend, saying if he is to die then he does so as his choice! At this point Yahweh intervenes yet again, reminding his beloved sons that they are his, which sends Lucifer deeper into his "NO I'M MYSELF!" stance. So Yahweh says "Okay come on then, I'll take you as far away from Priumum Mobile (Yahweh himself) as I can." Lucifer still wants assurance that Yahweh won't try to enforce his will (Yahweh's will) on Lucifer, which Yahweh can't give, because as he says "The Plan grows outward from me in all directions. Whether I will or no I am the center of order of determination" But for the time being, so long as he's far away from "Dad" Lucifer is content. Of course, Yahweh has brought Lucifer to rule Hell, as Hell is the furthest place for Yahweh's voice. And as we see, 10 Billion years down the road, Lucifer finally puts it together that, ruler of Hell or not, it's still all Dad's Plan (capital P) and so he's still his father's insturment. Now in the comics, Lucifer is working on an escape plan. He has no interest in reconciling with Yahweh, he just wants his own creation, outside Yahweh's. Of course he runs into issues with the whole Creation if crumbling problem ... sigh. In the series, they seem to be going the route of Lucifer trying to sort out his relationship with his father, which (IMHO) is probably a more emotionally accessible story, than the pure comic's motivations. It is interesting that while the TV series Lucifer is 'softer' in a way and in his fascination with humans than his comic counterpart, you could say from the comics that Lucifer set the ball rolling for his rebellion when he showed mercy to Lilith's children and refused to allow them to be killed through judgement that was not his father's.

I don't want to go too deeply into the comic's mythology because there is a comic's thread in this forum where we discuss them but to help a little bit. Neil Gaiman, who created *this* version of Lucifer co-wrote a book called "Good Omens" with Terry Pratchett, with has similar 're-telling' of Biblical stories only with the Guardian of the East gate to Eden and the original Serpent. Neil Gaiman in his comics "Sandman" introduced Lucifer. He said at the time he based his Lucifer on the anti-hero type of John Milton's Paradise Lost. So right there, you have a fictionalized version of a fictionalized version. When Mike Carey picked up Gaiman's Lucifer and spun it into it's own DC Vertigo comic series, the fictional world expanded, as we discuss in the comic's thread so I'm not going to put it here, included Lucifer's motivations and attitudes. Now we have the TV series, which is based off the comics. So effectively it's like 4 layers of fictionalization/mythos at work here. John Milton -- > Neil Gaiman ---> Mike Carey ---> TV Showrunners. These characters do reference a lot of Biblical themes, events, other Biblical figures (like Amenadiel and Luci snarking on the saint and his love of honeycakes) but there is also a lot that is simply pure story-telling, with theological themes explored, rather than following the theological basis, directly.

I had kinda wondered about the 'saving' also and hadn't thought about that twist! But now that you bring it up I think it fits perfectly. Lucifer saving Father Frank, then Father Frank expressly said "I am at peace with this" would have been a selfish thing to do because it would have been for Lucifer's benefit, not Father Frank's. Lucifer still tried to maybe coax Frank to change his mind with "It's boring...." describing Heaven but he wasn't really pushing it. Interesting how Lucifer didn't even suggest Frank was going anywhere other than up to Uriel. As for the music, YES!! I love the sound editors for this show, no doubt but the pieces they choose for Lucifer to play on the piano are just such perfect expressions of the emotions he's struggling with and his inner thoughts. I really enjoy how the writer's have used the piano as an extension for exploration of Lucifer's character, not just a simple prop.

Oh I'm looking forward to re-watching this one. I will admit that parts I was excited for from the preview, fell a little flat. I was really hoping we'd get an answer to the question "what happens if someone else shoots Luci" in this episode. ;) That said, I loved a lot of this and I was like "Noooooooo" at my TV screen when Father Frank was shot. So an episode that can draw me in and get me invested in a character in one 45 minute segment, I'm going to give it props! I love some of the twists. Dan is not completely dirty/evil!!! Amenadiel is evil! I was surprised by the fact that Malcolm realizes he was pulled back from Hell and who his "savior" was to boot, that was a neat twist. Though I know some people won't like Luci's "human-ness" in his grief, I genuinely felt for him and I think it's also part of what made Father Frank's death hit me (as a viewer) so fully as well. The piano playing ... all of it. Yes, it was anvil-icious but those two over grown boys derping ... Next week looks ... so much awkward. I do hope there is enough Trixiefer to offset the awkward.

Technically he was created before time so ymmv.

Maybe I'm being ridiculously hopeful, if so I'll own that, but I think in this episode in particular Lucifer was deliberately, OOT impossible for a purpose. Because to me, there was a definite shift in his tone, a downshift from the manic/boorish tenor, after he came to that realization with the murderer about "wanting someone to see you a certain way and they never will." After that scene with the killer, when he was smoking outside and Chloe came to talk to him, he was more subdued and not being as inappropriate at her as he had been for the first 45 minutes of the episode; he even calls Dan by his name. Then when he went to Linda and she cut off their physical relationship, he was nothing but respectful of her wishes, made no move to try to change her mind, didn't even make a lewd joke. Even with Maze, as angry as he was, he wasn't baffoonish about it or going on about how she betrayed him. He did mention it as "you betrayed me and that's that" there was no overly emotional "what about me, what about our history, how could you do thhhhiiisss" BS, just done. So call me a fool ;) but I really do think his utterly impossible, inappropriate, boorish and buffoonish-ness in the first 45 minutes of this episode was deliberate to show the abrupt switch when he came to his realization at the end, rather than a permanent path for the character. I suppose we'll see in the next episode but I predict we won't see Lucifer inappropriately propositioning Chloe or the abuse of the word 'douche' in respect to Dan going forward.

Some other bits and pieces, from the more shallow end of the pool. Folks who are worried about Lucifer's powers. Notice in this episode how quickly he got from the street up to the roof? So his angelic speed is still in place. Then the casual way he caught, dropped and caught the jumper? Strength, check. His "truth/desire" ability is still in play so good there. He still has all his powers, just at the moment he can be injured ... by Chloe and Amenadiel. I'll be interested to see if Chloe can explain away Luci casually lifting, holding and pinning a ... 180 - 200 pound man approximately 3 feet in the air.

I don't know if it's this way for all police stations but in LA a 999 key is a key to the station. Which I believe Chloe said when they found it.

Not discounting any theory! My own would be it's because of the story arc involved in the character of Michael in the comics. Not to suggest that if the series gets picked up for a couple of seasons the writers won't address the idea of an actual Michael figure but for the time being I can understand why they didn't tap that mythos from the comics.

Dr. Linda was packing up the files from the murdered therapist. The box had her name on it because she was the addressee for when they were shipped over to her for her review. He wasn't angry at anyone this episode. He was furious with Mazikeen for her interference but it was a cold rage by the time he got to her, flashing his red eyes/demon face at Maze gets her happy and excited remember? Why would he give her what she likes when he's angry with her?

According to an interview with DB Woodside, the TV series Amenadiel is a combination of the comics Amenadiel and Michael. Why the show writers decided to combine the two comic characters hasn't really been explained yet because they were VERY different character types/relationships with Luci in the comics. Though I suspect from a story telling perspective Michael might have been a hard fit in his 'pure' form to the series.

Regarding Dr. Linda breaking off the sex side of things, as well as the question of being ethical I also got the impression she realized she was tipping towards more emotionally entangled than was wise. In the scene where she told Chloe she was sleeping with him, there was a real quick half comment stop where she seemed to be like "I am actually starting to like/want what's best for this guy and I can't risk *caring* about him / wanting him in a romantic way and screwing up our work. Need to stop." Also I while I will agree that Lucifer was pretty OTT this episode, I want to think it was a one time thing. Again, I really get the feeling that this episode was supposed to push the characters to points of "Oh, wait I need to ...." self realizations so they kinda had to hit various degrees of rock bottom. For Dr. Linda it was coming face to face with the choice between her work and her libido, for Chloe it was coming to face her desire to reconcile with Dan, for Lucifer it was recognizing he couldn't continue to deflect/avoid his emotions by putting them on other people (welcome to personal responsibility Luci), for Dan it was Malcolm and Palmetto coming home to roost, for Maze it was her choice to work with Amenadiel. I don't think it was a particularly comfortable episode for any of the characters, except Chloe really, though it's hard to think that since we the audience now know about Dan. That said I did love the "He gets a bit judgey about these sorts of things..." line. Again, Lucifer can't help himself but to comment when mortals start tossing Dad's name around in vain.

I'll admit I was a little uncertain about this episode from it's write up and the emphasis on Lucifer being jealous. As much as I enjoy a lot of what they're doing with the character I wasn't big on the jealous angle. That said I was pleasantly surprised, intrigued and had a few OMG moments in this episode, so it definitely out performed my concerns! Those folks calling it that Dan was dirty, good on yah! It may not have been a shocking 'twist' but I still felt an "Oh nooooo" moment when we went from Chloe and Dan having a sweet moment, to confirmation that Dan was in cahoots with Malcolm and his partner. :( I've been kinda rooting for Dan and Chloe, letting Chloe and Luci be friends and I am going to go out on a limb here since all the tropes point otherwise but I feel like this episode kinda buried the idea of Luci/Chloe as romantic partners, at least for the time being. It may be wishful thinking but hear me out. Luci spent a lot of the episode trying to understand jealousy as it related to him (and yes, he was a bit of a real ass this episode) and he seemed to start out under the notion: "I'm jealous of Dan because I want to sleep with Chloe" because that's like the poster child for jealousy right? Romantic rivals. In the end, when he told the murderer "You're right, we're nothing alike" I personally take that as Lucifer realizing he wasn't jealous because he wants to sleep/have Chloe's romantic love (the way the murderer wanted with the dead shrink's wife). I think he realized his jealousy is more, "Chloe is my puzzle, my friend and I just don't want to share her attention with someone else." And also, maybe, just maybe thinking, "but she wants to reconcile with Dan ... I have to ... respect that?" Yes with a question mark, then the end scene between them I think was Lucifer actually trying on 'respecting boundaries'/ desires of others counter to his own, for once. For so long, Lucifer has had sex his way so he just naturally overlays it on all his interactions, particularly with mortals, so he was jumping to natural conclusions when in fact that wasn't really the case. Anyway, my personal speculation, I'll probably be proved wrong but I liked that they showed Chloe's interested (for the moment at least) is in Dan, with Luci Friendzoned. I liked that Dr. Linda stood her ground and broke off their physical relationship. I doubt that was easy for her but it was a nice step in the character's development and OMG I LOVED HER VS MAZE!! I seriously love ALL the actors on this show and just throwing them together in mix and match pairings; moar please. I think Malcolm could provide a very 'devlish' (sorry couldn't resist) big bad, with Amenadiel in the mix, even with 'greater good' intentions. And oooooo, when Luci finally put the pieces together about his bro, Dr. Linda and Maze! It was a quiet sort of rage touched with no little hurt, but wow you couldn't miss it! So in short I think this episode was a lot of moving the pieces on the chess board, which I know isn't everybody's cup of tea when watching but it has made me engaged in seeing how the next 5 episodes play out so I'd say it did it's job! Also just thinking! Amenadiel brought Malcolm back and I believe it was to mess with Chloe/part of the 'get Luci back to Hell' plans. And now Malcolm has already murdered someone and seems planned to do more. So good intentions or not, Amenadiel is still approaching humans as acceptable collateral damage.

I agree with this line of thinking. Also the red eyes/demon face usually results in complete screaming insanity and the last time he just flashed his eyes, his information source went jumping off a roof and Lucifer was still pushing Carmen for information at that point. He even said "before I deal with you, I want to know..." so we the audience didn't "see" him deal with Carmen.

Eh, given the chatter from the Showrunner, until someone who isn't either Chloe or Amenadiel makes Lucifer bleed I'm not ready to accept full stock that he's 100% mortal. That he believes he's got a mortality issue gives a branch for story-telling that doesn't mean he's actually given up his mortality entirely. Though to be fair, the comics put him in situations where he's 'mortal' or at least de-powered to a vulnerable level. The duel with Amenadiel and his trip to the realm of the Windowless Rooms for instance. In both situations it was an opportunity to tell the story of how Lucifer doesn't lean on the crutch of his power to exert his indomitable will on his life.

The Palmetto story line has been on a slow burn since the pilot episode. It's a case that started off screen and is the reason why Chloe is an outcast in her department, because a cop got shot and rather than taking up the party line that he was shot a hero, she insisted he was on the take. That's not going to make her popular with anybody. Add in that she's a woman and did a bad soft porn flick before becoming a police officer and she's behind the eight ball. Which is why, in the pilot, she had nobody working with her which allowed Lucifer to sort of slot into the role of partner. Come forward to Wingman and we learn that Malcom, the cop who was shot the cop Chloe thinks is dirty, has been in a coma all this time and his family has decided to pull the plug. Problem is, while Chloe has an open investigation on him his family won't earn his police benefits. This is further infuriating her "brothers in blue" hence why Dan was pushing for her to either shut the case or pull off a Hail Mary. Well she pulled off a partial Hail Mary in that she found evidence that suggests there was another shooter and evidence that it is a cop, so more dirty cops. But she doesn't know who, so she's got to play it quiet for now. Malcom was supposed to die but Amenadiel decided to interfere and now Malcom is alive. I don't know if anybody else watched the You Tube video with the showrunner that was linked on page 1 but a lot of the questions and concerns being raised on this forum, he addresses in that video. No real spoilers but enough of an acknowledgement of what the audience wants, while explaining what they're doing with the show and some neat hints here and there. It's worth listening to and definitely has me all in for the rest of the season. And hopefully season 2 ;)

I loved that scene as well. Along with the casual finger waves Lucifer gave to have her dunk the guy again and again. Yes, warped but also so damn amusing.