Carrie Ann

Yeah, I'm not sure I follow the logic that because Sara and Oliver ended up shipwrecked and all sorts of tragedy followed, getting together again would "risk all of that again." They risked hurting each other, and maybe Laurel (who was being such a shit to both of them that I don't think they needed to consider her feelings, or further enable her self-pity). But it's not a witch's curse or something, so I don't think they should assume that major tragedy will always result from their being together.

I'm hopeful that the writers would recognize the inherent problems with just dropping Laurel into the new Arrow Cave, and that they won't go that route. The clunky "This started with the three of us. It's time we got back to that." line was there specifically addressing criticisms about too many people in the lair. The showrunners know that people value the specific dynamic of Original Team Arrow, and as I posted somewhere here awhile back, they indicated that the season would begin with a more "intimate" feel in the lair. Basically, no outsiders. The worst possible thing they could do is to take a problematic character and put her in a place no one wants her to be. This is not to say that I don't expect Laurel and Her New Leather Jacket to butt in on that at some point in the season. But again, I don't think the next step from the season finale is "Train me; I want to be on the team." Even with her showing up in the lair in E22 and demanding a ride-along--there was an immediate threat to the whole city, and the people in front of her were heading out to fight it. It seemed logical that she would want to help in that moment. I don't think it means she thinks she can be a superhero too, and even if she did, I don't think Oliver would agree to train her.

I just don't picture her showing up, expecting to be part of the team, regardless. Maybe that's because the thought of it makes me ill! If it happens, I would think there would be a more precipitating event than just the fact that she knows about Oliver now and has a new jacket. Why would either of those things mean she's a part of the team now? But I do agree that I'm gonna need to see some real shade from Diggle if she does show up. I rely on him for that, and it would be gross if it had to be Felicity who did it.

Do we really think Laurel's just going to show up the next morning at the Arrow lair (er, wherever that is going to be now), ready to train? I wouldn't expect that based on the finale, so I'm kinda confused about that assumption.

I actually hate a lot of things about Spike and Spuffy in S6, and of course I hate the attempted rape. But I appreciate it at the same time, because the show never downplays it--everyone acknowledges it for what it was. In the decade-plus since this aired, I have seen so many problematic depictions of rape on TV with NO acknowledgment or consequences for the rapist, it makes BtVS seem like a model for how to handle it. Spike is horrified enough to take massive steps to change his very nature, and once he has, he spends the final season attempting to atone--most crucially, he makes those changes without ever expecting Buffy to accept him again. He does it because it's the right thing to do, not to get the girl back. His redemption arc in S7 is much more satisfying than I remembered it.

I think you're halfway there--he wanted to be the city's savior and protector, but not just for self-aggrandizing reasons. I think he really believed the city needed saving, and he wanted the wealthy and corrupt to be removed from power. He thought that after this huge, scary event, the city would be ready for the kind of change he wanted to make, and he'd be in position to make the changes. That actual concern for the city is why he gave Oliver the cure in the end.

I don't have any shows or books to recommend, but my favorite fish cooking method is roasting/baking, because it's relatively gentle, tends to make a more evenly-cooked piece of fish, eliminates the sticking issue, and it's easy to control the level of doneness. Here's a method for salmon that's similar to what I do (I bake mine in a Pyrex baking dish, not a sheet with aluminum foil), but you can do whatever you want for seasoning/sauce. I also make this Costa Rican Tilapia recipe several times a year--you can substitute any flaky, white fish.

I'm pretty sure the Salvatore mansion is considered to be in Mystic Falls, though probably on the outer limits. I would miss that set, so I would fully accept it if they claimed the spell didn't make it all the way to their house. Either way, I know one of the goals of the characters is breaking the spell so they can live in Mystic Falls again. Which is fine, but on the other hand, that makes both TVD and TO centered around people who just refuse to move somewhere else when the choice is that or face certain death. Dudes, Mystic Falls is not all that. Even New Orleans isn't worth all the drama.

@2Old2BAFangirl and @Jads, I responded to some of your points in the Speculations with Spoilers thread.

Based on the conversation in the All Seasons thread, I thought we should get a speculation thread started. I've read a few vague comments from the writers about the beginning of S6, and they suggest that the characters have handled their grief in different ways. One question was specifically about a potential triangle (vomit) between Stefan, Caroline, and Elena, and the non-answer was something like the characters went in different directions in the months after the finale. I am guessing that means that Stefan left or withdrew pretty dramatically. I don't think Elena would leave, not with Jeremy still around and grieving for Bonnie, but who knows, since she doesn't seem to give a shit about anyone besides Damon and herself anymore. And I don't think Caroline would allow Stefan to pull away from her/the world if he were physically near enough for her to get in his space. I'm personally over the Ripper thing, because if they go back to it then it's like all of the growth Stefan did in S3 and beyond was pointless. They've stalled or regressed on so much character growth elsewhere, it would be nice to have something stick for once. Plus, he seemed devastated in the finale, but not in an out-of-control way. But none of them should be able to physically be in Mystic Falls yet, again, according to the comments I read about how that stupid spell worked. Only Jer, Matt, and Tyler would be able to be in town. Alaric, Elena, Stefan, and Caroline (and Enzo, who cares) would have to live elsewhere. As for the question about what the point of Enzo is: until we hear what Ian's status is next year, I'm guessing that Enzo and Alaric are there to fill in the space that Damon has left. I do think he'll be back, but I don't know that he'll be a regular, and I think the show is planning ahead. I don't think Enzo and Alaric would get along very well though, and I'm more interested in seeing Alaric with Elena and Jeremy, and maybe with Stefan.

At least from a PR perspective, Amell does pay lip service to Laurel/KC/Lauriver. Before the Lance Family Drama arc, he was tweeting how great she was in the upcoming episodes, etc. I honestly think he wants the show to be the best it can be. And for now, that includes Katie/Laurel. So he wants her to be great, wants Laurel's story to work, wants their scenes together to be good, etc. But at the same time, I think the rest of the cast seems pretty tight, and I don't see that from her as much. If she's unhappy with what's happening on the show, I'm not sure she hides it very well, and that tension can leak onto the screen and messes with the chemistry with other actors. And with someone like SA, I think that negativity would bug him, and at least make their scenes together more challenging than the easy chemistry he has with DR, EBR, CL, WH, etc.

Here are a couple of those.

I am a Bangel shipper, and this episode was formative for Young Carrie Ann. I agree that it was a huge leap forward for the show--a point where I realized how invested I was in Buffy herself, and when the show demonstrated that it was dealing with real emotions underneath all this monster fighting. Like, sneaking zucchini in your chocolate cake.

I would love that too. All the Instagram feeds just called it a drop-by "visit" to the set, but even the official feed mentioned it, which makes me hopeful. I had a love/hate thing for Jackson, but it would be nice to have some closure with him.

Doing the Rewatch here made me even less understanding of the Lauriver relationship. When Oliver returns from the dead, the news shows video of him traipsing around with a bunch of girls after a night of clubbing (none of whom are Laurel). And Tommy references his multiple court appearances, for DUI, assaulting a paparazzo, stealing a cab, and "peeing on a cop." Do you know who dates guys like that? Paris Hilton. Lindsay Lohan. Probably the Kardashians. You know who doesn't? Any self-respecting person with half a brain.

My husband wanted to watch this, and he's the reason we stuck with it in the early going, because after the first few episodes, the only thing that kept me around was the Diggle/Oliver connection. Their interactions came across as authentic and real, ironically, when everything else was still finding its footing. I never had a problem with Amell, but I am more and more impressed with him as time goes by. I do find these early episodes fun to watch to see what worked and what didn't--again, Thank God for John Diggle because Oliver's voiceovers are clunky. Another thing that works even less for me this time around is Tommy. Sorry! I was never a fan, and am still not a fan. It's not really his fault, but he has no tact, and he seems to be really attached to keeping Oliver in pre-island mode, even while he knows Oliver's putting on a little show. We'll get into my other problems with him later. Laurel's characterization really flip flops between episode 1 and 2, as does Oliver's approach to her, and that's pretty emblematic of the whole series when it comes to her. Another thing that is even more jarring is how mad everyone is at Oliver--I get that it makes good TV, but it doesn't feel right to me, except in the case of Detective Lance. He never had any relationship with Oliver, so all he sees is the guy responsible for his daughter's death, who also happened to cheat on his other daughter. I can see Laurel's complex feelings about him coming up after awhile, but her initial reaction to someone she once loved coming back to life after five years should have been joy and concern for him, not irritation. It just makes me not relate to her, right off the bat, and the show never gets me back on her side.

Yeah, I love that analysis, quarks, and I think you're right, whether it's conscious on EBR's part or not. I know that the Clock King episode was pretty divisive, and I can see the other reading of it as well. I just wish it played that way for me. Felicity is just so relatable that that episode was painful for me to watch. I felt that Sara sort of treated Felicity like a little girl trying to play with the big kids, but I can see why others saw it as affectionate teasing. I do like Sara and Felicity's friendship in all the other episodes. And Oliver was just oblivious to what was going on with Felicity, which sucks because she wasn't being subtle, and he usually notices when something is off with her (as in Heir to the Demon). So in that end scene, I wanted him to be a little apologetic and feel a little bad. Because she had, you know, just gotten herself shot after feeling insecure enough about her place on the team that she took it upon herself to track down the bad guys herself. But instead it was just smiles at her being adorably high, and telling her she'd always be his girl, which rang a little hollow after an episode in which he didn't even notice that something was bothering her.

I wasn't happy with a lot of Oliver's decisions this season, but the reason I didn't stop liking him was that I felt the show did a good job of showing that those decisions were bad and Oliver felt the consequences. He didn't tell Thea the truth; she lost faith in him and they're now estranged. He told Roy to break up with her; she was immediately abducted and Roy went off the deep end. His secrets about the island put everyone in danger and got his mother killed. The Sara thing--I don't see that as a bad decision (personally, but I get that a lot of people do!)--but even there, it didn't work out and she ended up back with the LOA anyway. Not trying to change your mind--just explaining why I agree, but still like him. As long as the show understands that he's making mistakes, and that they have him grow and change, I'm still pro-Oliver. Yes, I feel the exact same way. Diggle is the unsung hero, always, but especially for how much better a friend he is to Felicity than Oliver is. I think that's great, in terms of the core Team Arrow having different dynamics with each other. But man, that entire Clock King episode rubbed me the wrong way, and that "You'll always be my girl" scene most of all. Condescending and gross, exactly. For the most part, Felicity just doesn't need the emotional support that Oliver does because she's pretty fabulous and has been fairly angst-free thus far. So I haven't expected it to be even, but in terms of the evolution of their relationship, I'm looking for some scale-balancing. If her family issues cause her angst, I want Oliver right there to reassure her. And I would like to see a little more pining on his side, a little more obvious feeling, like we've seen from Felicity.

I love Carrie (the original), Stand By Me, The Shawshank Redemption, Dolores Claiborne, and Misery. The best adaptations of his work manage to capture the feel of the books, and I think it's easier to do that with some of the shorter works. I also really love Kubrick's The Shining, but I don't consider it a good adaptation because it's so far removed from the spirit of the book. On the other hand, The Green Mile does a nice job of capturing the feel of the books, but I don't actually enjoy it all that much. I have some fondness for the miniseries of IT and The Stand, but I don't think either is actually good. I loved Tim Curry in IT, but that was about all. They made it all about the monster, and not enough about the special friendship among the kids. (Although...I don't ever need to see all the specialness, if you know what I mean.) I'm still crossing my fingers about The Long Walk, because it's possibly my favorite thing SK ever wrote, and it fits my criteria of being short enough to do a decent job capturing the feel. Plus Darabont has a good track record with SK. As for The Dark Tower, I have put more thought into how to adapt that than any sane person should. I think the only way that would make me happy would be a GoT-esque TV series with a pre-determined number of seasons/episodes, so that they can break out all of the plotting without having to stretch things out unnecessarily (Under The Dome, I'm looking at you). I would also want the Gilead parts (Wizard and Glass, etc.) spread out as flashbacks throughout the episodes, so that the main, present-day action doesn't get derailed for storytime as it does in the books.

I'm not sure we're going to get much balance in regard to their lives and mission, because I think the point the show was trying to make is that Felicity herself gets to be a hero through this work, and that's what she gets out of it. She gets to "be more than just an IT girl" as she told Oliver. So she's not giving this just to Oliver, but to the city as a whole. She is making sacrifices and taking risks in her own way and for her own reasons, and getting her own fulfillment from it. I like it. What I would like to see in terms of balance between them is more emotional giving on Oliver's side. As you pointed out, it has been a lot of Felicity giving emotional support and Oliver taking. He reached out and propped her up a couple of times this season--the Clock King episode with the "You'll always be my girl" line even though I hated it; and when he noticed she was upset and assured her she wouldn't lose him before she told him about Thea. And you could count the "You're my partner" scene too, although that resulted from him first being an a-hole, so I'm only counting it for half. But those instances pale in comparison to Felicity's emotional support of him. Practically every episode, especially toward the end of the season, she gives him some sort of Hero pep talk. It would be good to see him more emotionally available and supportive.

Yeah, that wording could mean almost anything. But it doesn't make much sense if Paul's story was as straightforward as it sounded, unless Mrs. S was just referring to, like, his conscience. Like, this thing went down and he's been trying to make up for it karmically? Otherwise, it does seem like there is something else to the story. I've also considered that he and Sarah may have a vague agreement that he is trying to help her and the others as he can from inside, even though it may mean he has to do some stuff he doesn't want to do. One reason I thought that might be the case is the missing time between the seasons, when Paul and Sarah disappear from the DYAD elevator together, then Sarah enters Mrs. S's house alone and Paul appears back at DYAD. When and how did they part ways? There's also a break in the first episode where they have that phone call, where we don't see the call end before Daniel comes up on the Sarah decoy. So there was time to communicate that type of plan with each other. Then Paul disappears for four episodes, and suddenly comes back on Team Rachel (or OK, even on Team Only Paul). It's too abrupt, and she is too awful a person to convince me that Paul just became entranced and dropped any concern for Sarah. One strange part of the scene where Paul framed Felix is when he's talking to Sarah (explaining what he's doing and what DYAD wants in order to get Felix out of jail)--she calls him a "gutless bastard" and he gets a little smile on his face. Because of how creepy that whole scene is, it plays like suddenly Paul is a pretty sadistic guy, which is a sharp turn from the Paul who put himself on the line to try to save Sarah last season. The other options are that this is all a part of a show and he just can't keep the smile down; or he just finds her adorable, even if she hates him; or that his masochistic streak makes her anger at him sort of satisfying because he hates himself and feels like he deserves her scorn. Uh, despite all that "evidence," I don't actually believe they have an arrangement. It's wishful thinking, because I just want Sarah to have more allies, and I don't want Paul to be such a jerk. There was nuzzling last season, people, and I'm gonna need more time to get over that.

I wish I knew for sure, but I'm fairly certain this was the first BtVS episode I ever watched, in reruns the summer after the first season aired. If it wasn't the first, then it was the first I actually paid attention to. So I have a little affection for it because of that, but even then I didn't particularly like it. But it caught my attention, and I saw the potential there. I think the Scooby scene at the end was part of it--their relationships with each other were the strongest part of this season for me.

The other thing about the "natural" argument or the relative morality of vampires is that if they want to continue to associate with humans, have relationships with humans, basically live a human (immortal, superpowered, but human) life, then they are probably going to have to live by the human moral code. Otherwise, go off in a vampire enclave and kill whoever you want--just don't brood about being judged and rejected by the humans around you, or by other vampires who do love humans and don't think they should be hurt or killed. Elena used to be a judgey person--forgiving, yes, but she had a pretty strong sense of right and wrong and she tried to live her life to honor her parents, and based on what she felt would keep her loved ones safe. I don't mind questioning right and wrong as you grow and change, but deciding to just stop caring about all of that--or about anything besides your own immediate desires--is not the kind of character growth I'm interested in seeing from someone who is supposed to be a heroine.

Bringing this thread out of the basement for clarification: in the episode threads, people keep referencing whatever happened with Paul in Afghanistan, and wondering if we'll ever find out. My question is...did I miss something? Was his explanation to Sarah in S1 later revealed to be false? He told her that he was there working with a defense contractor and he killed six Marines (?) in a friendly fire incident that was covered up, and that's what DYAD has over him. Now, S2E6 made me wonder whether that's really all there is to it, but prior to that, I didn't think we had any reason to doubt it.

I bet you could substitute basil for the mint too, if you like basil.