Carrie Ann

I like Iris, but I do have fears that the writers learned nothing from the failure of this character profile on Arrow. The slightly snarky, disapproving True Love of the hero's life, who is the only one in the dark about his true identity, etc etc. But at least Iris seems to unreservedly love Barry, and seems pro-Flash for now too, which puts her two steps ahead of Season 1 Laurel. Another tricky thing for the writers to navigate for Iris is that the "Person A has been pining for Person B for years; It's True Love, Person B just can't see it yet" trope is rarely kind to Person B, and it usually requires them to "come to their senses" in some insulting, icky way. I will say that at least there was that moment in the pilot (I think?) where Iris looked sort of disappointed for a second when Barry brushed off the idea that he was thinking about her that way. So I think they've planted the idea that she might have some feelings for him too, and that she's denying them, where Barry has accepted it as a fact of his life. In the optimistic column, these writers have been known to bring up a trope only to subvert it--Joe West finding out so fast and coming around to Barry's viewpoint is a good example, for me. So now I just hope that Iris finds out soon, that she also figures out about Barry's feelings soon.

I've basically been on the barge for at least the past three or four months, routinely deleting a week's worth of episodes unwatched. I honestly can't even remember what was happening when I was watching regularly. Which is probably why I quit. But anyway, my question is...are there any signs of improvement? I tried reading through the current plots thread, but I can't really tell if anything is worth tuning in for right now. So, does anyone think the show has gotten any better/more interesting recently, or should I stay on the barge in ignorant bliss?

Aaaah! That coat is so cute. And she's wearing the dress she wore in The Calm when Oliver asked her out. I'm excited for this episode.

I have a theory that they don't have much chemistry because they made a big deal out of this role over the summer, and then the next thing I knew, the guy's only going to be on for something like 4-5 episodes and the actor has signed on to another show. I think they had longer-term hopes for him, but either they couldn't meet his terms vs the other show, or there was no spark between KC and him. Or both, I suppose.

I don't listen to any Arrow-specific podcasts, but Mo Ryan (HuffPo, previously of Chicago Tribune) and Ryan McGee (of various outlets) talk about Arrow on their Talking TV podcast. After last season's finale, they devoted an entire episode to the show, and the other times they discussed it can be found here.

Yeah, there's basically no way Katrina's cover story was the whole truth. So a woman dies, and just somehow becomes a jealous spirit monster that haunts Sleepy Hollow for 200 years? No. There was a witch involved. I'm so thrilled the show is finally going there with Shady Katrina. That alone would make this episode an A for me, but everything else was great too. I really loved Jenny teasing Hawley. Get it, girl.

The other pic SA posted today was tagged as "Top of Grouse Mountain," so I'm assuming it's real mountain snow.

At this point, I would sort of love it if Nyssa's the one to tell Quentin, because no one bothered to tell her in a timely fashion either, so she and Capt. Lance can share in their righteous anger.

Whaaaaaaaaat. Downloading that app right now.

Swear to God if they kill both queer women on this show in one season.... I actually think Nyssa's going to survive, now that Sara hasn't. There's no "reason" to kill her off for any of these characters' journeys. As far as a "raw" conversation between Oliver and Felicity, I'll believe it when I see it. The EPs touted the premiere convo as being raw, where declarations were made on both sides. That didn't happen. Then they or SA said that the second part of that conversation happened in Ep 2. Nope. I mean, yes, they had emotional conversations, but they weren't as described. What I remember them saying about Felicity going to CC was that she and Oliver had "a...conversation" that makes Felicity think it would be a good time to visit CC. I don't remember it being described as raw, but man, who can remember at this point?

Oh, yeah, I don't expect them to get together and then stay together permanently. That's why if this kid thing has to happen this season, I'd prefer it happen sooner than later. If it comes out mid-season, when they aren't together, and it's just another conflict between them, then it can be resolved along with the rest. It would bother me more if they resolve the other issues, and then this one pops up right as they're getting together. Just not interested in being jerked around--and by not interested, I mean I would truly find it boring and tedious. But as @NumberCruncher points out, it might not lead to a conflict between them. I agree that if Oliver doesn't know, then Felicity wouldn't have a problem with it. If he did know, and made a choice to stay away, it could go either way, but I just can't imagine the writers wasting any opportunity to create conflict between these two characters. Because they hate joy.

I found this episode really broad, and in a lot of ways, it just didn't feel like this show. People had to act much stupider than they are in order for it to hang together, and the Terry/Gina thing really had nothing to do with anything else and made no sense anyway. Although I did like that learning that she's taking college courses.

Bringing this over from the spoilers thread, because there aren't any actual spoilers about Oliver's lovechild--we're just speculating on the spectre of it. I will join others in saying that I have ZERO interest in Oliver's child having any real presence on the show. I've talked about this here somewhere this summer, so I won't rehash my thoughts on the inherent suckiness of a kid on a show like this. But, obviously it will be addressed in some way, and if that has to happen this season, I would prefer it happen early on so that it can be resolved alongside the other inner conflicts Oliver is facing, as well as his conflicts with Felicity. I would also prefer it if he already knows, especially if Waller was using it against him, because then it doesn't need to be some big emotional revelation. And if that's the case, it would be great if the kid already had a father. A stepfather who adopted him/her, for example. No need for Oliver to come in there and eff everything up. He can keep an eye on the kid from afar, and let him/her live a normal life. And yeah, I agree that it will bring up some difficult feelings for Felicity, and what I would hate is for them to get close again by the end of the season, and then for them to throw this kid in the mix and have her shut him out all over again. I think viewers--not just active shippers, but people who watch more casually and find the O/F dynamic appealing--already found the quick reversal in the premiere to be a clunky stall tactic. And if they do that again, people will really get to the point of rolling their eyes. Or at least this viewer will. There's only so much stalling you can do before a ship stalls out completely, and you can't recapture the magic.

I'm going to reply in Hopes and Fears, because I don't think my thoughts include any spoilers.

I remember Candice, Kayla, and Nina taking a girls' trip to Disney World a few summers back, and they made it sound like it was annual (I think Kat was doing some music stuff that time). I think they're all really good friends, and I will assume nothing's changed, because that would make me sad. Maybe the report is just based on social media accounts, and Nina happened to not post anything or appear in pics, so they didn't mention her attending.

Did Nina not attend either? That makes me kind of sad, but maybe she was working that day.

She's also Jane Bennet on The Lizzie Bennet Diaries web series, which is where I knew her from. She's adorable.

The AV Club actually gave Sara a higher grade than The Calm, for what it's worth, and I agreed with that. Personally, aside from the frenetic pacing of The Calm, and aside from Sara's death in general and the framing of it (dumpster/freezer), I liked both of these episodes. I still found them both to be compelling, engaging hours of television, though they upset me and left me apprehensive about the handling of things going forward.

Yeah, it's odd given the criticism the EPs acknowledged about S2--that the Foundry was getting crowded, that the original Team Arrow was the heart of the show and critics missed their interactions, etc.--that they would start Season 3 by taking that note and saying, "How can we exacerbate that problem?" On the other hand, I always knew there would be periods of conflict between O/D and O/F, and I understand the need for them for dramatic reasons. Maybe that's why they had Dig say Oliver was right at the end of The Calm, and why Oliver didn't fight him on coming back to the team in Sara. Because they need O/D on the same page, firmly bonded, if O/F are not. But at any rate, it doesn't solve the original problem, ongoing since 2B, that neglecting that particular O/D/F dynamic hurts the energy of the show. It's a tightrope--having conflict without sacrificing the best part of the show. And right now, my guess is that that dynamic will be basically nil for the next two episodes at least, as Felicity is separated from the team, so I'll just be over here feeling sad.

Yep, this doesn't hold together at all. It would make infinitely more sense for Alaric to have just compelled Elena to let it go, to not feel devastated by it anymore. Because they've shown that compulsion can overcome emotions (fear being the biggest one I can think of--Kat to Stefan, Damon to Caroline/Andie). She wouldn't have had to forget anything that happened with Damon, or that she loved him, or that she still does. The only reason it went down this way is to create another roadblock to them down the line. To which I say, boooooooooooooo. Damon is so much better in 1994 with Bonnie, and if this storyline has shown nothing else, it's definitely shown how toxic the great Delena love was, at least for Elena. Is going back to that supposed to feel exciting and triumphant? It will feel like a tragedy, for all concerned, to me.

@KenyaJ, I would like to propose marriage to you and this post. My personal headcanon about Felicity (insecurity and intimacy-aversion) also mean that she's really stretched herself out of her comfort zones, put herself so far out there with Oliver. And now she's reeling that back in, partially as a defense mechanism. For a moment there, he had the ability to control or impact every area of her life. She took a shitty job that she hated because she was helping him to hopefully get his company back, at which point she'd work for him again. She worked for him on Arrow stuff, and as you said, he just proved that that work is done at his will. What social life she has seems to revolve around Team Arrow. And her romantic life presumably revolved around him too, once she'd let herself believe they might be together someday. At any moment, a decision from Oliver could seriously impact any one of those areas. And now I think she's taking the reins back in at least her professional life, because that's the one area that he can't be involved in anymore.

I agree with your whole comment--it really crystallized the impressions I had from the episode. But I think I find this miscommunication less contrived than you do, because I think that Oliver and Felicity have some fundamental misunderstandings of each other because of their respective emotional walls. Felicity has every reason to believe that Oliver has shut off a part of himself that feels emotions, because she's spent a lot of time around stoic Oliver, and he just told her that he can't be that open person he was for 20 minutes in The Calm. I think Diggle doesn't buy that crap and never has--which is why I still believe Diggle understands Oliver better than anyone (except maybe Sara, sob). But Felicity clearly has abandonment issues, and I think that makes her insecure when it comes to other people, so I can understand even further why she would believe that Oliver really has made this choice, and that it has changed his willingness to feel anything. And despite being emotionally open in many ways, she also holds back a lot of herself, so I can understand Oliver not knowing how to behave at this point with her either. While I missed, and will continue to miss, their constant support for each other, I wasn't surprised by the lack of it last night and I think they both acted appropriately and in character, given the circumstances. I wish there could have been even a tiny moment, a little brush of the arm at the burial, something like that, but there is going to be some distance between them this season, and the grieving process isn't over yet. I think they'll still be there for each other when it matters.

Yes, this made absolutely no sense to me. Of course they would come after her, if she'd betrayed them or gone AWOL again. Silly reason to disregard the most obvious answer.

Not telling Captain Lance is definitely my biggest sticking point of this episode, because as others have mentioned, it doesn't seem like his illness/injury is acute, so when will he be healthy enough to hear that his baby girl is dead? Never, that's when. It will not hurt less, or be any easier on his heart in a day, a week, a month, a year. It won't be easier with her killer identified; it won't be easier with her killer imprisoned; it won't be easier with her killer dead. It will never be easier. Sara will always be dead. So I hate this, and I hate Laurel even more for doing it, and God knows I didn't need another reason to hate her. Seriously, WTF are the EPs thinking when it comes to that character? When she was whining at the burial about how Sara deserved better, it rang so hollow. I was like, "You ARE THE REASON this is happening." Not only the middle-of-the-night secret pinebox burial, but her being dead at all. The only positive point is that I sort of thought Oliver was going to be the one to push for not telling Quentin, or take Laurel's side, but he seems really uncomfortable with it, so that's good I guess?

I agree that Abbie/NB is much more guarded in her looks and emotional displays than Ichabod/TM, but I do think there are interactions with him that are different from any she shares with other characters. Tiny moments, when they hug, or share a look, where her guard drops for a minute and she lets you see how deep her connection to him is. Or how much that feeling unsettles her. They made it explicit when she said that her faith in him is her weakness. Obviously, that depth of feeling doesn't need to be read as romantic, but it feels that way to me.