Carrie Ann

Yeah...I don't think that's how Netflix works. They have plenty of shows in their collection that had no resolution, for all sorts of reasons. But if anyone has a link to info that indicates they do make decisions this way (particularly for ongoing shows), I'd be interested in it, because I am kinda fascinated by this stuff. Anyway, on topic: I think Season 7 is definitely happening, regardless, but I haven't heard anything that indicates who will or won't be back for it. Sometimes they wait until post-finale to announce things like that (like Matt Davis, last season), and particularly if one of the main 3 is out, I wouldn't expect to hear anything until then. I really do wish this were the last season though. I feel like they're heading toward nice conclusions this year, and next year might just feel like a zombie season.

She's a writer for TO; not sure she's directed.

Can you clarify what you mean by "the Netflix deal?" They don't dictate content, or make decisions on what streams based on content factors at all, AFAIK.

That doesn't look like Tom Cavanagh at all to me. It looks like GG. I'm sure it's not? Just strange.

Orlando posted about this in his usual fashion on Tumblr. The relevant tags, in case you can't read them:

The one thing I think is unique about Roy and would be missed if he was gone is an actual connection to The Glades. Everyone else on the show is/was middle or very upper class, and it feels important for someone to still have a strong tie to the people of the city who get shit on the most. But the show is short-sighted about these things, so I wouldn't expect them to care whether the characters' concern for others feels authentic or like lip service.

OMFG. I dropped this show after the midseason finale, and put off watching any of the new episodes until I knew Katrina was dead after the finale, and I saw that people were generally pleased with the last few episodes. So I caught up (skipped a few early ones), and felt a little hope that things were turning around for this show. But now I'm right back where I was in December. If they don't get rid of WHOEVER it is who continues to slight Nicole Beharie and Abbie Mills, this show will never have a chance. And it doesn't deserve one. If it's all on Goffman, great, then can him and find someone--maybe a woman? maybe a person of color?--who gives a shit about Abbie's perspective and who views NB as the lead/co-lead of this show.

I am convinced someone dies or leaves in a permanent way, because all of these little posts collected indicate something permanent. I think the show would see these kinds of tweets as teases, vague enough not to be real spoilers, and 90+% of their audience doesn't follow this stuff anyway, so it really doesn't matter to them. That said, I spent about ten minutes trying to convince myself it could be Laurel instead of Roy, but there's just no way. She was in LA for this goodbye scene; it wasn't her or Quentin*. It seems like it has to be tied to Thea's mask, and their whole obsession with mantle passing--she's Speedy, and this is how she takes the red suit and mask. They've even made a point of Roy's size this season, which will make it more believable that she could just wear the same suit. I truly wish she were taking up the Canary mask instead, but that's just not what's happening. (Somehow, despite that this possible death would clearly be to elevate Thea, it still feels in service to Laurel for me. But that's because I resent her uselessness, and after other shows I watch have dispatched their dead-weight characters, I'm even more resentful that this show just won't, and other characters/actors pay the price instead.) (*The only way it could be Quentin is if he filmed a separate final scene with Laurel and then she wasn't a part of whatever scene SA/CH were talking about, for some reason.)

This pic Colton posted last week had me thinking the same thing about Roy, along with some other bummer-sounding tweets from a few months back. I honestly hope he isn't getting killed off, which I never would have thought I'd say before this season. But of all the new superheroes, he's the one I like the best, and the one I think fits in best in the lair. I have hopes for Thea too, but since she hasn't been allowed to interact with Felicity or Diggle really, it's hard to say.

I didn't mean to shut it down, just meant that when we've talked about it, that has been the problem identified with how they could make that plausible within the continuities of each show. The Felicity who visits Barry in CC in TF104 is still not with Oliver, and she refers to the Barry/Oliver conversation on the roof (which actually happened after the Vertigo, so Oliver wouldn't even know Barry woke up or was The Flash at all); when the team visits CC in TF108, they mention Canary's murder. Had the crossovers only happened on the Arrow side, I could believe that this is the kind of shark-jump MG was referring to. But I think they would negate two episodes (at least) of The Flash as well, if they did that. I would be interested in your idea of how to get around it.

We've talked about this a few times, and the crossovers are the sticking point for the Season-Long Delusion idea, I think.

I agree with all of this. The CW can't just turn into the DC channel, and I'm guessing that someone at the network indicated they weren't going to be interested in more than one more series. None of these heroes have the name recognition that Green Arrow or The Flash have (other than Black Canary, which has been botched beyond repair), so I can see the network balking at building a series around any one of them. And maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like this was always the plan. Or at least, the CL/Sara piece of it was. I honestly don't think they would bring her back if they hadn't planned to do so all along, but we'll see! Yep. I love Victor Garber more than almost anyone on TV, but Sara is the reason I'm interested in this. And I am firmly of the belief that she will be Sara, and that this will take place in the Flarrow universe and timeline in order to allow crossovers, until MG/GB/AK say otherwise and break my heart.

I don't feel like Felicity has lost agency, and I think it's easy to spot the difference when you look at Thea, who until 315 seriously had none. But I do feel that Felicity's story this season mostly serves the plot/stories of others, and I think it's possible people are conflating the two concepts. Examples of times I think Felicity showed unquestionable agency (def. as a character operating on their own agenda with their own goals, active in their own story): walking away (and staying away) from Oliver in 301; taking the job at PT in 302; going to CC to see Barry in TF 104; taking Cooper down in 305; maybe kissing RP in 307; walking out in 310; walking back in in 311; refusing to work with Merlyn in 312, and then shutting it down with Oliver later; initiating with Ray in 315. In at least half of those examples, I think there's a stronger argument to be made that actually Felicity's actions serve other characters on their journeys more than they serve her. So it doesn't really feel like agency; it feels like support. And it feels particularly egregious when she is/was a love interest to four of those characters, and her actions there are related to that role. Let's review what MG has to say about that: So, it is sufficient for the writers that Felicity's primary role is that of love interest for the menfolk. It is enough for them that she is active in at least one part of her love life. But every step of the R/F relationship has basically been: R wants something from F, F puts up a roadblock, R persists, F agrees, R gets what he wants. The job offer, going to the dinner meeting, helping him with his suit, starting a relationship. I'm not saying I think Felicity was coerced into sleeping with him, and I agree with MG that she did technically initiate, but it still followed the pattern. Ray gets what Ray wants. And Felicity theoretically gets something out of all of these things too, but as @BkWurm1 says above, it feels like Less Than. She gets a relationship (but not the one she really wants), she gets out of the lair but ends up in another lair, she theoretically helps the city in a new way via a different dude. She gets this VP job title, but as Laura Hurley said in her article, what we actually see of Felicity doing her job shows her in the role of personal assistant. But she didn't initiate any of those things. Ray did. And that's just it, in a nutshell. She's there to assist Ray's journey, and what crumbs of screentime are left are devoted to challenging or assisting Oliver (or Laurel) depending on what the writers need that day. So she does technically have agency, and she is technically getting some of the things she seemed to want, but only as defined by others, based on what they want from her and what the plot needs her to do. Her agency, like her whole life, feels Less Than, right now.

As critical as I've been of the writing for Felicity this season, I think there's a reading of what's happening with the Ray/Oliver situation that would suggest that she is actually not particularly introspective. Not particularly comfortable with searching her soul, or looking too closely at her real, deep feelings about things. Because she's so well-adjusted, generally speaking, and so self-aware in other areas, I just took it as a given that she's always understood and accepted her feelings about Oliver. But if you consider that maybe emotions and real connection are the one area where complexity scares her a bit, it makes a lot of other things fall into place. Her relationship with her mother, for example, seems like another example of avoidance behavior (ditto the change in look post-Cooper). To me, it would explain her ability to compartmentalize, and even her ability to stay positive when things are really shitty. It could also be a facet of the reason that she hasn't expressed her own feelings for Oliver to anyone--she possibly hasn't even figured them out herself. Her wording to Ray in whatever episode where she could only say that Oliver was more than a friend, seemed not so much like trying to hide what he was, but more like she really wasn't sure herself. And yeah, their relationship to each other isn't easy to define, but her feelings for him should be a little easier, given the amount of time she's had to think about it. Which is why I think that maybe she just doesn't let herself think about it in too much depth, not even after he died. Anyway, if my reading is correct, it would also explain how she could move on with Ray, even how she could be...not discouraging of his advances while Oliver was dead--while still not discounting her feelings for Oliver, or making her seem like she is knowingly leading Ray on in some way. She truly doesn't know that she is. None of this makes me feel any better about the way this has all played out, and I have strong doubts that I will be satisfied with the resolution here, but if I choose this headcanon, it does make me feel a little more understanding of Felicity, as she's been written in S3.

I'm responding to some of this in the Felicity thread, because I'm mostly talking about her, I think.

I believe they're using makeup to age MM up a bit, since she is 45, which is at least ten years too young to play Lemon's mother. Still have no clue why they didn't just cast an older actress, but I'll assume someone on staff is friends with MM? (And basically this means that MM was about 10 years older than the rest of the DC cast when she was playing Andie, but looked super young for her age at that point, and so it's also a bit confusing to see her looking anywhere near her age now.)

Speaking of Janina, if they set the series in Coast City, maybe if she can get away from The Mysteries of Laura, McKenna could be the law enforcement element. The EPs have talked about how they'd like to work with her again. (I mean, obviously, since TMoL is a GB show.)

Now that we know Ray is moving to the spinoff, what would be nice is for Arrow to start deepening his character a bit. I'm not talking about devoting an episode to him, or delving into his background, because zzzzzzzzz (and because they should save that for the spinoff). But, other than his boundary issues, which appear to be a writing error and not an intentional flaw, the problem with Ray so far on Arrow is that he's really, ridiculously, too perfect. He's got it all, and his big problem is in his past. It's not something he needs to face every day. It's fine for him not to be overly burdened like Oliver--he's definitely more in the Barry vein. But right now, Ray is one big yawn for me, because he's basically just a blowup doll. So I think it would be nice to introduce his Fatal Flaw. I could see this obsessiveness being a problem for him going forward. I would also believe that he would have problems with moral grey areas, because I think he's naive about what he's getting himself into (ditto Barry, actually). He also seems pretty self-absorbed, and maybe it's just because I don't particularly like him, but I think he's doing this for self-serving reasons, and it would be nice if they end up addressing that at some point too. I'm just thinking about how he, and Ronnie (assuming RA signs on), will carry this kind of show, given what slight characterization they have so far. It would be a good idea to flesh them out a bit now, before we just end up with a bunch of dudes straight off The CW factory line (plus Sara) on this thing.

To the first question: no, Berlanti hasn't made any comments on this. I think the OP just brought Berlanti into it b/c he was the one who semi-apologized for not including more women on that TCA panel? In this episode, Malcolm is the one who says that Nyssa should have known that her relationship with Sara would cause her father to disinherit her, and there was something about it that made me think that the implication was that it was because Sara was a woman. But we don't know yet, You're all probably right, and it is just the fact of her having a relationship at all, particularly with someone who wasn't completely dedicated to the League, and not that that person was a woman. I think I had people's discussions of the other comic book Batman/Ra's storylines in my mind when I was processing the episode. I will hold onto hope that whatever the reason, the writers will not lean into the sexism, but are planning to subvert those things like they used to do.

I would honestly have no problem with them bringing Sara back via Lazarus Pit or by any other means they want to, because Malcolm is clearly aware of the pits, and could have been in SC for long enough to recover her body. MG keeps talking about the Lazarus Pits--it seems in relation to Ra's sweet hot tub--but I mean, they exist in this universe. Why not use them? And if you're going to, yes, for the love of God, use them for Sara. The question then would be where Sara has been all this time, obviously, and whether Malcolm was working with someone within the LOA.

Plus he seemed the type that could end up in the frenemy category, given the right circumstances.

I don't know where to talk about the implications of the spinoff news for the rest of the Arrow season, but here seems like the best place, since it's potentially spoilery. So: do we think Ray will leave at the end of season, or be here next fall (since it sounds like it will possibly be a midseason replacement in 2015-26)? Caity has to be playing Sara. I just don't think they can have her play a different character in the same universe. So: she's coming back this season, right??? Is this one of the crazy things in 318?

I am just kinda flailing over here. Caity!!!

I know people have Skyped in for the ATX festival panels--I wonder if they would do that with SA for Paley?

I just took SA's words literally--that Ray and Felicity will be in a committed relationship before Felicity and Oliver will be. That seems pretty obvious--I don't think they will stay in some "what are we" mode for very long. Neither R or F seems like the type. As for the "if ever," that just seems like his usual CYA/teasing thing he does. But if, as others were discussing yesterday, the EPs received budget info for next season this month, I suppose it's possible they've made a decision w/r/t Ray's status for next season. And I suppose they could end up prolonging that relationship.