Carrie Ann

I thought this episode was a big improvement over the last few. It was nice to see the Firestorm thing finally happen, and I thought RA and Spydaddy had a nice rapport. Robbie Amell will never win any awards, but he seems pretty suited to this role. I bought into his emotion w/r/t Caitlin more than I did hers for him, but I liked their chemistry in general. The ending kinda made no sense to me though. I don't know what Clarissa's job is, but it seems to me that most people would probably take a leave of absence to be with their husband in that situation. Ditto for Caitlin, frankly, but I understand her in-show reasons for staying in CC. It was just odd that her end scene with Cisco made it seem like she and Ronnie were broken up or something? (I swear to God the Arrow and Flash writers have no concept of what a loved one's death does to people, and how they would behave if that person ever came back to life. If you were truly in love with someone, to the point of almost marrying them, and they came back to life--even if there were complications, I believe you would drop almost anything to be with them, to help them and get your life back. Ditto for your sister, your brother, your best friend. I don't think your reaction would be hostility or near-indifference, but that's the choice the writers make every time. It's...crazy.) Anyway, the best part of the episode for me was Iris. I do like Roger Howarth, because I think he always brings something to his scenes where some actors don't bother. I liked the way he interacted with Iris here; it brought CP out of her shell a bit too. When I think about it, all the other characters on the show treat Iris like some delicate flower, so it's kind of fun to see her bouncing off of a grouch like Mason. Anyway, I also liked this story for her because it finally brought us to the point with her that I wish we'd started on in the pilot--I believe she is truly intrigued by this Star Labs story, and I think she has every right to be suspicious of everyone in her life. I'm rooting for her to figure out the Barry thing, and everything else, on her own. And then I hope she reads her father and Barry for filth, because they deserve it.

Yep, and metahumans on Arrow. Great news! So excited!!! Unless this is basically the way to ease RP off of Arrow and over to The Flash, in which case: I for one welcome our new Metahuman Overlords.

Well, I definitely prefer AC to AoS (and still prefer Arrow to AoS), but I will say that (casting spoiler?) makes me feel a lot more positively about the show. I do think they did a pretty good job of identifying weaknesses and trying to mitigate them between S1 and 2. It's just that I basically find none of the regular characters compelling or particularly appealing. There's just no hook yet, for me. But my husband watches, so I'm still along for the ride when I'm in the room--the blessing/curse of living in a one-TV household.

Definitely not until 320, if then (319 is going to involve some Ray vs Oliver bullshit that will make me rage). That would follow the 2B model, where 211-219 were a muddy mess of Lance Family Drama and Slade Making Threats, and then Moira died and things ramped up to the 3-part finale. But yeah, the real answer is Season 4, if we're lucky. Because even if by some magic, the last 3-4 episodes are good, it won't make up for the rest of the season.

I don't think we're done yet, and that's partly responsible for my dread for the rest of the season. I'm so OVER the constant barrage of shit piled on these characters, with so few moments of emotional catharsis. Oliver gets a few (with Thea, Roy, sometimes Diggle), Laurel gets a few, but no one else really does. And Felicity in particular has taken a lot on her shoulders this season but her moments of positive emotion are directed outward. At Laurel, for two episodes in a row; at Ray, repeatedly. 305 was the only exception I can think of where others supported her and she got to experience an emotional journey that ended on a positive note for her. The problem for people who fell in love with this show when it focused on Original Team Arrow is that we came to expect that Dig, Felicity, and Oliver would challenge and support each other, and grow tighter in every episode. Terrible things would happen, but almost none of the episodes ended without some sense of closure that these people were taking care of each other (that extended to Sara at this point last season, too). This season, they've basically eliminated the D/F and O/F dynamic. (Dig and Oliver still get a few moments together (like in 313), but the writing for Dig is so inconsistent, that I can't really get a gauge on that relationship either.) I would have been happy for Felicity to move out of the Support-Only mode and into the Receiving-Support mode, but instead, while she herself is going through more emotional shit than ever before, they've basically just kept her in Support-Only mode, but only for characters IDGAF about. That's not satisfying for me. I think we're supposed to feel relieved that she can find some solace in Ray, this great guy who openly cares about her. But the myriad problems with that relationship dynamic, plus the fact that it's such a transparent ploy to drum up interest and investment in a new costume, make that a non-starter. And do you notice that any emotional catharsis they share just leads to her agreeing to help him with something? That said, I do think it's possible that we're past the tears stage for Felicity, which would be a relief. To go all the way back to the original question you posed, @wonderwall: I think we're supposed to see a growth arc for Felicity where she moves into Boss mode, where she's running all these superheroes, realizing her own reasons for being in the fight, and becoming this confident person who stands up to all these Big Bads. Which is great, but again, it's hard for me to look at it that way because what I actually see is the writers putting her in that role so she can shine her light on weaker characters. And also, whether it's an acting or writing issue or both--in order to make Felicity seem "stronger," they've basically changed her demeanor, like she's imitating Amanda Waller or something. My ideal for a Boss Felicity is the "Bitch with Wifi" scene, and my ideal for her facing off with a big scary person is the "Felicity Smoak, MIT, Class of '09" scene. But instead, they just make her scowl and drop her voice real low. It's getting old, and sort of undercuts Felicity being strong in her own way. If you look at 302-313, it's 90% tears and scowls, and it's hard to believe that she's supposed to be the "light" of this grimfest. Or maybe that's Laurel now?

I don't think The Flash's episode 18 is going to line up with Arrow's. AK talked about having to do some rewrites to make TF 118 make sense in the timeline, and I think it's because of this. So my guess is that Arrow is coming back the same week as The Flash, but will be a week ahead, episode-wise at least for awhile. I don't get it.

Prison Break? :) I like how first Oliver had to die, then leave town again, and next he's going to jail, all in order to make room for these JV Heroes. Any other ideas on how they can sideline Oliver for an episode or two at a time? Coma? Amnesia? Abduction? MM's mind control drugs?

OK, here's the full, combined list of rejected 318 titles from Twitter/Tumblr: Pact with the Devil Palmer Palpitations Panacea Pandemonium Pandora Panic Attack Paralyzed Paranoia Parbat Parenthood Partners Partnership Paternity Path Pathetic Pendulum Penumbra Perchance to Dream Perspective Phantom Stranger Phoenix Pinnacle of Truth Pit of Lazarus Pizza Para Poliver Platinum Platonic Playing with Fire Point Break Point of Change Post Crisis Post Mortem Posthumous Pray for Olicity Precious Predator Premonition Present Time Pressure Pretty Bird Priority of Life Proof of Death Proof of Life Propaganda Proposal Punishment Puppet Master Puppeteer Purgatory Pursuit of Happiness Pyromania

You are awesome! I think he's rejected some on Twitter too--I'll try to compare and add later (unless anyone else feels like doing that!).

Some crazy/awesome fan must have compiled a list of rejected guesses somewhere, right?

I sent him my Prodigal Son guess too, and he obviously hasn't addressed that either. I thought I saw him say on Twitter that as far as he knew, no one had guessed it yet. But I'm assuming he doesn't read everything sent his way and just misses stuff. But I do think Public Enemy(ies) is a good guess.

I don't expect anything Olicity-related in the present day scenes. I think what MG's talking about will all be in the flashbacks. I think they'll either have a close encounter or work together indirectly, and yeah, maybe this is how Oliver knew to bring the laptop to her in 103. That's about as exciting as I think it's going to get.

I think what's rubbing me the wrong way about the team's infighting is that they won't give each other the benefit of the doubt. It makes me feel like they don't understand or believe in each other--but particularly in Oliver--anymore. I saw that in Roy's reactions to Oliver w/r/t Thea in the lair, and with Felicity from the end of 312 through Canaries. Instead of believing that Oliver is very protective of his family and friends, and that he has a lot of trauma, particularly in his very recent history, and that those factors may play a part in his decision-making, Felicity appears to immediately assume that Oliver is making a mercenary, fatalistic decision with Malcolm, and doesn't even try to talk him out of it. If there was a scene where she (and Diggle, preferably) at least tried to dissuade him from his plan--even if he wouldn't budge, because plot requires that--it would accomplish two goals. One, it would tell me that Felicity's first instinct is still to believe the best about Oliver, which would make her final rejection of him more effective. Two, Oliver could have provided some of his own reasons for why he feels he has no choice, and I think that would sell MG's idea that they're both right a little better. To me, it feels like Oliver is wrong and Felicity is right, but I end up not liking the way either of them are handling this. In Seasons 1 & 2, Oliver would regularly do some dumb shit, and Dig and/or Felicity would argue against it, and by the end of the episode (or a few episodes at most), the issue would be resolved. Oliver would come out of it a better person and a stronger hero. But here, we have to blow up Team Arrow and the relationships they've carefully built--they all have to react to Oliver based only on his worst moments, and not on their years of experiences together; Oliver has to stop communicating with his team--because those relationships are inconvenient to the plot and to the rise of other characters. And it's frustrating that Oliver is the only person who has to come to realizations about how he was wrong (he and Dig resolve their little disagreement, and Oliver comes around on Laurel in the end). If anything needed to "evolve" in the team dynamic in Season 3, it should have been that. I'm tired of Oliver being wrong all the time. I'm done with the show treating him like he's this terrible hero--regressing his character development--in order to prop up weaker, less experienced, less appealing, less convincing heroes.

I don't think Barry is a Nice Guy, personally. I love Barry. But this trope--the guy in love with his friend who is oblivious--tends to drag its characters into that dynamic. The writers need to be very careful to make it clear that Barry doesn't resent Iris for her relationship with Eddie, or for not returning his feelings (yet). Some of his reactions to Eddie and Iris, pre-admission, were a little too close to eye-rolling irritation for my taste, but in general, I think the show has stayed on the right side of the line with him so far.

Here's a link that goes into a lot of detail about Nice Guy syndrome.

It was my first thought. LAYING THE PIPE.

Now that I've stopped sobbing...I probably can't comment coherently on the episode anyway. Marguerite MacIntyre was so excellent. The tears started for me when she started breaking down in bed. When she said, "I did everything right," it was over for me. And I'm crying again. Great. ANYWAY. It never occurred to me that they might enter Liz's consciousness like Damon did with Rose, and that was such a lovely thing. Everything was just perfect, and my God, with the baby Caroline on the bike... The Steroline kiss was rather lovely too, and PW did an excellent job conveying that feeling of being a little stunned by a moment like that. I'm glad they're finally infusing this with the depth it needs, on Stefan's side. Also loved Caroline's blatant ogling of him earlier in the episode. AND. I love that Jeremy isn't going to Art School. For as much as Elena (and others in her place) have always tried to control Jeremy for his own protection, it's nice that he was allowed to exit the show to go do something cool and heroic. I believe it from his character too, which is nice. That's a great ending for Jeremy.

Super gross. And what does "emotional terrorist" even mean to him? That's...not the way I would use that term. And just BTW anyone wondering: "this" is not what it's like to have a daughter. "This" is what it's like to be a parent who is terrified to realize that all the women you ever objectified were someone's baby once upon a time... But um, yeah, this is why I don't follow him on FB I guess. He posted that pic once of him at a gun range with some tee-shirt that referred to someone trying to date his daughter and I was like, "nope."

My understanding is that we can talk about all manner of things Felicity-centric here as long as it's not solely on a topic that clearly belongs in another thread. If the mods have a problem with the content of our posts, they will move them, and you are free to hit the "report" button on a post you think is out of place, and a mod will decide. But I don't think we need to continue to discuss what types of posts belong here. Anyway. I don't believe there will be another Felicity-centric episode this season, which is fine with me. Diggle didn't even get a full episode I would settle for some episodes where she is central to the main story, without Ray, but I suspect we're stuck with him until the end of the season at least, which means she will be attached to his story through that time. I hope the writers take a look at some of the reactions from viewers this season as they write the last few episodes.

Oh yeah, that would make sense (and it would make sense to also refer to his return to Lian Yu), I just remember MG saying it didn't refer to Oliver or Slade. But I couldn't remember his exact wording on that bit, so I'm not sure.

I kind of doubt there will be, given that we ended 313 on Lian Yu, and that the promo photos are all of that or flashbacks, and that Ray isn't in this ep either. Maybe one scene of a patrol or something? But I doubt they'll deal with the Quentin thing until at least the GAME CHANGER. Also, remember how The Return wasn't supposed to refer to Oliver or to Slade? That came up when we still didn't know when Oliver would be back in SC post-death, didn't know this would take place on Lian Yu, so I wonder whether it really does refer to Oliver and MG was just being lawyer-y about the language. Otherwise...any thoughts on who it is?

Yeah, I don't see how you could watch that episode and really believe the show thought Clarke was "right" to do what she did. They presented it as an impossible decision, and she went along with Lexa's plan because she was convinced it was the best option, but she clearly felt remorse. And I wasn't super convinced that it was the only option. Sorry, but if you moved all those people out of there, and Mount Weather knows you have someone on the inside, then what? They look for him? You can talk to Bellamy and tell him that they know, and things have to get juggled, but I'm not convinced there was absolutely no way around it. They let ??? number of people die just to stay with their plan. I don't think it was a good call, from a human being perspective, and I don't think the show presented it as one. They are clearly showing that Clarke is attempting to shut off some of her emotion, in reaction to killing Finn and to being thrust officially into a position of leadership for which she is underequipped. I don't think the show believes it's a great move for her to lose touch with her humanity, so this was portrayed to me as a step in the wrong direction, but hopefully one that will lead to her moving back the other way (either of her own volition or because everyone around her will push her that way like her mom is doing). I would think people who hate Clarke and think she's a Mary Sue who's always right would be thrilled at this development, personally. It doesn't seem like the show can win when it comes to Clarke. If she refused to go along with it, then she's always an angel and never has to do anything wrong. But because she did do something wrong here, that doesn't fit the narrative that she's always right, therefore the thing that was wrong just becomes right?

It looks like a few people on Tumblr responded to that post, pointing out that it wasn't just that Roy was in support of working with Merlyn last week to defeat Brick--his reasons were that MM really cares about Thea and about the city, he just shows it in a messed up way. So, again, last week, Roy believes Malcolm wants the best for Thea. This week, Malcolm should not be allowed anywhere near her. It's not just that Roy is recognizing Thea's agency, and supporting whatever it is that she wants. It's that he's a convenient dude to use to offer an opposing viewpoint, because he's not a very established character, so the writers feel free to pull him in various directions. ...hahaha jk they feel free to do that with all the characters now.

Don't worry, he found a way to be condescending even when the question was phrased nicely:

Right, or Lance is going to end up actually having this heart problem, which once again is not a consequence for Laurel. He's the one who pays. Laurel never does.