Carrie Ann

"Matters." (Ahem, I'll probably get tired of sex puns one day, but not today.) Anyway, I'm still kind of hoping that Felicity just shows up on the plane to NP (along with Diggle, based on the BTS photos), and that would also fit with that line.

Peeps, this isn't even the favorite scene because that one's on a jet! I'm actually excited about an episode again; how dare you, Arrow. How dare you.

Ha, ok, I've watched those five seconds like 20 times in a row.

We're sure it's on Arrow. As MG keeps saying, he's not involved with The Flash.

This episode really showcased some of the inherent problems with this season and with the show as a whole: namely that it really felt like 3 different shows going on in one hour, and tonally none of them fit together. The A plot really worked for me. I actually felt tense watching all of the chase scenes, and feeling all of Oliver's options slip away. But then there were the flashbacks, which had very little of that urgency, and were instead sort of slow and mournful in tone. And then there was the B plot, which was lifted out of an actual sitcom, with the bouncy music and slapstick and WTF, seriously. If the writers don't see how badly this thing has pulled Felicity down and out of the real action, and how it just plain does not fit with the whole feeling of the show, then I give up. Speaking of things being all over the place, lotta high highs for some characters (Roy) and low lows for others. Poor Quentin, the latest victim of character assassination in the name of plot. I'm still not mad at him because there is literally no reason for him to do any of this except that the plot needs him to do it, and everyone gets a pass for that this season, honestly. But goddammit, Laurel, stand UP and take responsibility for your shit. She has still faced no consequences for her actions, aside from her dad being mad at her, but he's mad at everyone else too, and maddest of all at Oliver, and I am just SO READY for anyone else to pay for their mistakes sometime. On the other hand, there was Donna Smoak, who is officially the best thing to happen this whole stupid season. And I wasn't thrilled with all of her characterization here, but it honestly doesn't matter because Charlotte Ross just nails it in the subtlety of her scenes with EBR. That "I knew it in five" line was delivered perfectly, and it elevated that scene from something that would have felt like it belonged more on HIMYM than Arrow, to something that felt like real emotion, like real human relationships. Especially when it was a plot point earlier in the season that Felicity is never more than five feet from her phone and always answers, and that if she doesn't, it must mean trouble. Sorry, I just don't buy that Felicity wouldn't be responsive at that time and it was stupid to include that line. They honestly didn't need it. Clearly Dig and Oliver knew she was safe, knew she was with Ray, so why bother saying that she's not answering her phone?

I mean, I kinda want to be her friend, so if she's here, HI JENNY i <3 you.

Yeah, I...think he missed the part about how there has to be some sort of reason or motivation for your protagonist NOT doing something that would seem to help his situation. There isn't one here. Yes, we all know that ARGUS is shady as hell, and that they personally used and abused Oliver himself.* But he's shown himself willing to work with them in certain situations, and it seems like they could help and would even potentially be motivated to help him, specifically. So Oliver's not calling them for help because the plot dictates that he can't and that's good enough for MG. (*And honestly, if MG had used that as his reason, I would have accepted it. We still don't know the full extent of what happened to Oliver in Hong Kong/elsewhere, so if we were supposed to believe that he has reason to think they wouldn't help or that it would be worse for everyone if they did, then...okay. I'm not saying I buy it, but it's A Reason, anyway.)

ARE. YOU. SERIOUS.

*Weeps* Can we just skip to Season 4 and be done with this dreck so I can have SmoakinLance? I think we've all earned this, living through this season.

Well, because he's super seriously injured and hanging on by a thread, maybe it's something Donna says to her at some point or something like that? I don't want them spending any more time on him than necessary this ep, so I'm hoping it's really nothing more than him needing to turn the corner on his own or whatever.

I think they are actually going to make Felicity cry in every episode this season, no joke. Other than The Magician which doesn't count, have there been any without at least the wavery voice? UGH I am so glad I'm not watching this live tonight. I am counting on you guys to spoil it for me so I can mentally prepare.

I actually loved this week's Flash episode, but letting Eddie in on the secret was like some sort of last straw for me, and now I am 100% Team Iris Vs. The World. When she finds out, I hope she leaves nothing behind but ashes. But at the same time, that would be a sucky place for her character to be too. She should be allowed to shut them all out--that's what I want from her from a justice perspective. She deserves to be righteously angry. But that would just continue to alienate and isolate her. So I just don't know how they're going to pull off anything good from this aside from solving all their problems with a timeline change. I remained baffled that the writers learned nothing from positioning LL the same way, but I guess I shouldn't be so surprised by things like that at this point.

I honestly think MG mis-typed when he responded to that question earlier this week to say that F118 comes before A318. They obviously had to adjust their storylines to make things fit, and yes, it seems like 318 is going to pick up immediately following 317's assassination of the Mayor. I suspect that originally, Ray was going to be injured in CC, or on their return instead. That's why the mayor's office thing seemed so tacked on to 317. Or if the mayor thing was going to happen, then obviously Ray wasn't going to be injured in it, but would have to have been seriously injured by 318. So, technically, I think the 317-318-118-319 episodes will flow from each other, but character-wise, I think it might feel off. Like, I think Felicity will develop doubts in 318 regarding her feelings for Ray vs Oliver but I don't expect to see any of that in F118. (Or not much, beyond a little comment from Barry or something.) And while it might seem off for her to leave town and have a fun time in CC while Oliver is in jail or exile or whatever, well, he'll probably tell her to go to stay under the radar for a few days or something. And then we'll come back to the right order for 319 and "different approaches" and all that.

He's so right. Abbiebod is way better than Ichabbie, which I've always hated. Clifton Campbell, I like the cut of your jib.

Ha, yeah, I think the show might have really gone in a Bonnie/Kai direction if Chris Wood hadn't gotten the new job. They did have chemistry, even if it was just more of a hate-vibe, but I kinda think CW might have chemistry with everyone on this show if given the chance. Now I think they'll have to wrap up this Kai storyline, so I doubt much will come of it. I'm okay with that, because, yeah, I don't need Bonnie to be with someone who tormented her.

I had been thinking about a cohabitation situation when MG kept teasing this Thea/Felicity thing. But unless the whole team is hiding out in a new location together, yeah, it defies logic that Oliver and/or Thea would stay with Felicity or vice versa. Maybe they'll all move in with Ray for an episode.

Yep, this exactly. If anything, 2.5 proves further to me that the writers or MG specifically are just...not good at relationships, and that maybe they don't really understand what people like about O/F. I still find the comics enjoyable, just not my thing tonally or in substance. To make a timely comparison, since my mind is in the Easter basket right now: they're just like marshmallow Peeps--insubstantial and one-note in flavor and that one note is saccharine. Also, to the point about the detail of the drawing--there's a panel where one of Oliver's hands is amorphous. It's just a claw. Ugh. Sloppy work, all around.

Did you guys notice that the sound effect is spelled "THIWK" in that panel? That made me laugh. I liked that Helena called Oliver out about why she's the only one of them in prison. Now I want her to break out. TBH, I kinda haven't been all that excited about the Olicity stuff in 2.5 because it feels kinda cheesy and OOC. Part of it is the art, which is SO bad, especially in the faces. Felicity's always drawn with this simpering face in those moments, and you can barely tell if Oliver's doing anything other than scowling. But in general, the whole series is tonally off for me, probably just because it's so much more comic book-y. It seems aimed at a younger audience or something.

I loved this one so much. If she has moved on from Arrow, then I'm glad she's into The 100 instead. I suspect she's still watching Arrow, but it's not very...inspiring this season, so I don't blame her for putting her energies into The 100. She was commissioned this winter by some writers and the EP of The Vampire Diaries/The Originals to do pieces as gifts for other writers, which is pretty awesome.

Eh, they'd probably just insert a flashback to some other magical O/F moment we never got to see to sell copies.

OMG, Mods, I love you. This thread title makes me somehow feel less "butter" about the show! Edited because it's now Butter, not bitter!

I agree that if the problems with the show can be traced back to the showrunners splitting off, then Berlanti's absence is probably the biggest factor--at least in terms of the overall feeling of the show--the dourness and inconsistent characterization and weakened relationships. But maybe even if AK and MG were left to run the show together, having the other person there to review everything and give another opinion or perspective would have helped. I know AK is technically still involved with Arrow, but it seems pretty clear his role is minimal.

I think a lot of people just fill in the storytelling blanks with the tropes they expect to see, or they form an impression based on a few simple misunderstandings. I mean, people still argue that Felicity doesn't want Oliver to love her because the women he loves get hurt or killed--a fundamental misread of that one awful line in 312. And that's not a minor distinction. But because the show is doing so little to make clear where Oliver and especially Felicity are with their feelings, you can basically believe whatever you want for the time being and canon really won't contradict it (or it will constantly contradict it and you'll no longer trust that you know or like these characters). And I imagine the confusion is going to make it pretty unsatisfying for some people when they do resolve it someday. As it is, I think the lack of clarity and the absence of their formerly fun dynamic has lost the pairing a lot of support from more casual fans. In fact, of my friends and people I follow on Twitter who fall into that category, ALL of them have lost interest in O/F and some actively oppose it now.

He sure did. "From the moment we met I've held nothing back from you." I think several people here have made comprehensive lists proving that wrong (and if anyone comes across a gif set with this quote and scenes of Ray using Felicity for his own ends without her knowledge or lying to her, I'd love to see that).

He's said something about all the happy stuff happening in the 2.5 comics, but I don't think he's mentioned anything about 3.5 yet.