Cheezwiz

Yep. THIS. Denise often couldn't get her stories straight. She ran from conflict most of the time. She often seemed "medicated" on camera. Her husband is a weirdo with a questionable business. You know what? I totally didn't care. Because the rest of the cast spent an entire season piling on, and making Himalaya mountain ranges over tiny mole-hills, beating dead horses (pardon my mixed metaphors). If Denise was lying (which I suspect she may have been), it WAS ABOUT THINGS THAT CONCERNED NO ONE ELSE. Despite being blasted and harangued at pretty much every event she attended, she never retaliated by hitting below the belt. Rinna was at her most psychotic this season, and most of the other women fell in line. They quadrupled down when they realized the fans weren't behind them. The remaining ladies better be careful what they wish for now that Brandi has been pulled back into the fold to spill tea. Because next time it might be one of them she spills on. Oh, and shut up Teddi!

I think that's the key to how he got away with things for so long. Keith pretended to have no involvement - only tacit "approval". Women tend to trust other women, and most of these women were probably already 3/4 brainwashed to begin with. It also seems not all of the "masters" had knowledge of Keith's predatory behaviour either, so there was some compartmentalizing going on even within the DOS secret sorority. Knowing what we know about the manipulation that was happening, I'm more and more impressed with Bonnie for trusting her instincts and bailing early on. I'm interested in why some people crossed the line into predation and abuse, and why others were able to put the brakes on and get out.

Yes to all of the above. I really hope the documentary addresses some of the things I've been able to dig up with just cursory browsing on the web. At the moment, it seems like a way for some of the more self-serving former members to burnish their images and make more $$$. Still very curious about the Bronfmans who bankrolled the whole thing (their father apparently recognized it as a scam from the beginning), and Nancy Salzman and her daughter. Salzman behaved like a true believer when she formed her business partnership with Raniere. Did Salzman actually believe the word salad he was selling? Or were they scheming together to bilk people from the get-go? Did anyone research their backgrounds before signing up? As others have noted above, this whole organization seems to be filled with well-to-do white people completely devoid of critical thinking skills.

Really interesting link to an article that Forbes magazine did on Keith Raniere way back in 2003. It exposes some of his past, and his past activities will not come as a surprise to anyone who's watched the documentary so far. I suppose reading this could be considered a bit of a spoiler, so it might be worthwhile to bookmark until later after the whole series has aired: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyakowicz/2019/05/15/keith-raniere-the-leader-of-the-nxivm-sex-cult/#4f524a5735a9

I believe George Carlin also said something similar while he was alive.

Oh, well looky here, via casual net-surfing I've just discovered that Sarah Edmonson has actually written and released a book about her experiences entitled "Scarred: The True Story of How I Escaped NXIVM, The Cult That Bound My Life". Not gonna bother posting the image, as those of us who have watched the series so far have already seen her badass brand, but GUESS WHAT SHE'S DOING IN HER COVER PHOTO!? Something's still seriously wrong with her.

Just finished episode 4. Holy crap, Keith's word-salad seems word-saladier than ever this ep. Re: the religious comparison - yes, I can see that as much as I can see the parallels to the corporate world as well. After all, they are both things people worship. Keith definitely has the air of a stoned philopsophy major pontificating away in a dorm, mixed with an earnest Christian youth pastor - strumming on a guitar or something. YUCK. I was shocked that he actually had a long-term partner. Others above commented on how cringeworthy Alison Mack's intro to Keith was. I agree, but I think EVERYTHING about her is actually just pure cringe. I think all of the shots of her with her pasted-on ecstatic smile makes my skin crawl even more than the footage Keith. And you can see her shrinking progressively through the course of the episode. She's creepy as hell. I don't like Sarah. I have no clue why she's so eager to show off her brand - just bizarre. I think she's furiously backpedaling with this documentary hoping to rehabilitate her image or something. I feel kinda bad for Nippy, as he seems fairly straightforward and honest. I don't think she is. Major props to the poster above who noted their kid's observation that for an organization that's supposed to b world-changing, they never frickin' DO anything! All they do is attend seminars, go for walks, and play volleyball. Did none of the recruits pick up on this? Really interesting that they left out the info that Catherine Oxenberg was the one who had joined the cult and then introduced her daughter to it. Kind of an important piece of info to omit, no?

Yes, MINDFULNESS. Gawd. That term went from something innocuous (to try and appreciate the here and now), to being co-opted as boardroom double-speak in record time. Now it's frickin' everywhere - there are even whole magazines about mindfulness. I'm so glad I work in a place that doesn't utilize this bafflegab.

I've watched episodes 1-3 so far. I second the sentiments of posters above - I never would have gotten sucked into this cult myself because a)I'm too poor, b)I'm lazy as hell, plus I love to eat. Nonetheless, it is fascinating to watch how others got so thoroughly bamboozled. So many parallels to Scientology. Basically Keith stole the playbook, point for point. The only difference being that he added his own secret sex slave spin, and didn't declare his organization to be a church as a tax dodge. But everything else is pretty much the same - lure people in with pop-psychology mumbo jumbo, make them feel special, like they have a purpose, and a loving supportive community. Get them going on pyramid scheme techniques. Recruit people in the entertainment industry who are very physically attractive but insecure. Use sleep/hunger deprivation techniques as control mechanisms. Get recruits to furnish handy blackmail material. So much of the filmed word salad training sessions (along with the bullshit forced volleyball games) we see also reminded me of corporate nonsense I have witnessed in the past. ((Shudder)). In addition to Scientology, there are so many parallels to the way things work in the corporate world. Thus far the only two people who seem to have had real mettle were Bonnie and Nippy (God help me, but that nickname is ridiculous. No matter how great a guy he might be, I just don't think I could get involved with someone who voluntarily used that as a name). I don't know if the documentary will address it (I sure hope so, 'cause it's 9 episodes LONG), but I want to know the REAL backgrounds of Keith and Nancy Salzman. What was the nature of their relationship? How did they meet, and start these BS training seminars? Did it start out organically, or did they cook up a masterplan to bilk people from the get-go? Clearly Keith lied about his background, so who is he really? I'm just not seeing what others found so compelling about him, and I'd like the portrait he presented to recruits to be picked apart systematically.

Oh God, she's STILL saying that? I didn't mind her too much when she was on the show, but that was the one thing that irritated me about her in a big way. It was dated back THEN!

THIS. At this point, I don't care what Denise said or did or lied about. These hyenas are so despicable in their pile-on, that I'm automatically on team Denise no matter how much she prevaricates. I hope a house falls on Rinna. And Erika too - What. A. Bitch. They're clearly furious that the public isn't on their side. I don't follow any of them on social media, but it sounds like they're just doubling down even more. And the whole "you made us look like assholes" is exactly what an abusive bully always says: "Look what you made me do!". Sorry ladies, y'all accomplished that on your own. In the same vein is the Garcelle charity situation. I don't care that she forgot to pay. Or that it fell through the cracks. Kyle was clearly keeping this in her back pocket all these months to humiliate Garcelle, and it's clearly blown up in her face. It doesn't matter what Garcelle did, Kyle now looks like a MUCH bigger asshole. Everyone's been saying how great Erika looked - I think she'd look much prettier if she didn't trowel on so much make-up. I thought she looked ridiculous. Everyone else looked varying degrees of fine. Teddi's pink hair actually looked good on her, and I hate Teddi.

Nooooo!!! Do NOT backpedal and let that psychotic hosebeast return! Some people really need consequences for their actions. I wonder if she was threatening to spill some behind-the-scenes dirt if they refused to be flexible on her return.

From what I've read on gossip sites, Sonja was screwing around with younger men, and got caught. Old Man Morgan subsequently dumped her, and stuck her with what I suspect he probably already knew was a white elephant townhome. Given Morgan's habit of discarding wives for younger models at regular intervals, it's doubtful they'd still be together even if she had been faithful (or at least discreet). I can't believe he's what, 89 and still alive? He looked 89 way back when she married him! Sonya to me, a modern-day mash-up of Miss Havisham & Grey Gardens - hanging on to her moldering townhouse, pointing out to everyone that she's in the "blue book" society listing, sloppy drunk at social occasions. I kinda get why drunk Leah was yelling at her at Ramona's party. Sonja thinks she's earned a place among the bluebloods simply by being married to one for a short time, and she can't let it go. Just pitiful.

Of all the homes, on all of the Bravo shows, Luann's Sag Harbour house is the one I daydream about. There are all kinds of articles from Bravo and Architectural Digest floating around with photos of the house. I'm a sucker for older homes with character, and being that this one is an old Sea Captain's house, has piles of it. It's bright, airy, tastefully decorated, and in my opinion, the perfect size - big enough to host out-of-town guests, but on a warm cozy human scale. The water-view property it sits on is stunning. I'd take that one over Ramona's bland sterile house any day. I would like to know the back-story of her two kids suing her for it. From what I understand, the Count made a provision that Luann could buy the home, but that ownership should put in trust for her kids, and she subsequently tried to sell it out from under them? Man, I'd sue too! I wonder what their relationship is like now. Anyway, I ramble off topic, but it's my favourite Bravo property EVER.

It had to have been pretty egregious behaviour. I bet everyone associated with these shows has to sign iron-clad NDA's. What I wouldn't give to view some smuggled secret footage! I'm so curious to know who is decent and who is awful when the cameras aren't rolling.

Some of this is starting to leak in the press now. I don't have a link handy, but apparently one of the producers refused to come back to the NY franchise if Dorinda returned. Given how ridiculous most of these women are most of the time, it had to have been pretty extreme behaviour. I'm DYING for someone behind the scenes (producer, camera person) to come out with a tell-all on the behind-the-scenes shenanigans. There's no way I would be able to work on one of these things - I'd have been thrown in jail for throttling all of the cast members. We all know these shows are fake and scripted, but I'm curious as to how they shape the story-lines: do they pay some of these women bonuses to play the villain role for a season? I've watched a few franchises off and on for so long now, I'd really love to know the inner workings.

I'm catching up on this season after being away for a long time. This is the central mystery of new girl Leah to me. I feel like someone has to be supporting her. She may make a few $$$ with the lame clothing, but not enough to support a Manhattan lifestyle. Her ex doesn't look like someone who comes from money, but I could be wrong. Could be funded by her parents, but again, not sure. What a family of odd ducks - I couldn't get over the rice-cakes and broccoli combo. And whoever said upthread that Leah's Mom looked like the witch from Hansel & Gretel if the witch was an old hippie was pure genius!

I'm returning to RHoNY after several years of being away, so this is my first intro not only to Leah but to Dorinda as well. I didn't mind what I saw of sober Leah on TV - she seemed reasonable for the most part, but intoxicated Leah is a whole 'nother story. Ye gods. I also hadn't heard about her prior history before coming on the show, so she's definitely dropped in my estimation. I don't understand her clothing line at all. It sounds like it was just launched last year, so I question how much money she's actually made on it, since it appears to be t-shirts or hoodies you'd find on threadless or redbubble, only without attractive artwork. There's simply no there there. How does she live? Does she come from money? Are her Connecticut parents wealthy (her Mom's name is Bunny, which seems like one of those upper-class NE twit names), or were they just middle-class? Apparently she had a podcast, but prior to that, what was her history? It's clear she's not partnered up with anyone longterm, because she's nuts. Her ex seemed nice enough from what we saw of him, but it's clear he's keeping her at arms length and has remained close by for the sake of his daughter. It's good that he has a positive relationship with Leah's family for the kid's sake. Keir seems like a smart girl so far. I dunno - I didn't mind the sober version of Leah, but I'm prepared for that to change.

Wow. Interesting. I wonder what really went down. And since Season 3 was kind of a big hit, I would have expected to have heard more publicity about it. I never saw a thing in the news. I can't tell the brothers apart, so I don't remember who had which backstory, but I wonder if one was uncomfortable filming the show?

Agreed. I'm catching up on NYC after many seasons of not watching. I think the last time I watched Aviva was still on hurling her artificial leg around. I probably wouldn't care for her in real life, but on the show, I don't mind Leah when she's not drinking - she seems to enjoy interacting with the various women, and when sober, can sort of act as a bridge or voice of reason between women who are feuding. She's completely out of control when she's drunk, but it sounds like she's recently tried to clean up her act and dry out again. I can recall reading about Tinsley and her "it girl" status years ago. I fully expected to be irritated by her, but was surprised that I liked her - there was nothing malicious or mean about her. I would have liked to have known more about her, but her airtime seemed to be limited to other people bullying her. The other ladies were only nice to her after she had packed up to leave. I found myself rooting for her to build a new life for herself in Chicago, even if things don't wind up working out with her fiance. In fact, I would LOVE a Chicago HoWives franchise with her as part of the cast, even though the idea of a Chicago show has been shot down in the past. I agree that it would be more interesting to include real movers and shakers on the NYC show - people who actually DO things that would be interesting to follow on camera. These women literally have no lives - the show has devolved into a tedious mess of drunken dinners and parties where people get into screaming fights. And as for Dorinda? YIKES! This season was my first intro to her. After watching her, I can see why people might have liked her in earlier seasons. She does have a warm, lively and fun presence when she's not drinking. Also an attractive down-to-earth den-mother quality. But she really is like Jekyll and Hyde - the nail spitting rage she flies into when she sets her sights on someone, holy smokes! Her tendency to fixate on certain people to bully was disturbing to watch. There was no way Tinsley deserved the treatment she meted out. She's clearly got some deep psychiatric problems and anger issues going on - her refusal to hear anyone out who is trying to help her is telling. I question how healthy her relationship with her late husband actually was. As others have pointed out, I believe she loved and still grieves the lifestyle he afforded her. I know people have bagged on her daughter, but I shudder to think what kind of childhood she had with such a volatile mother.

I've been wondering that as well - I wonder what their relationship was actually like behind closed doors. I also wonder what her daughter went through growing up with a rageaholic mother like Dorinda.

Oh, man I was super bummed about that too. I love all the Queer Eye dudes, and really thought Karamo had better sense than to hang out with that OTT narcissist. Wait, what? Did I miss something? The twins had a falling out? @Klaw applauding and seconding your entire post! Sums up my feelings on this season as well. Agree on the houses. If I had stupid money to spend on a house, it would NOT be on a glass and concrete box on a hillside with a retaining wall for a backyard. I don't care how nice the inifinity pool is.

That was my thought as well - that the young man moving into the boarding house was perhaps a fan of his writing.

What a fantastic episode - almost a complete stand-alone story. There is nothing I love more than a haunted house story, so I was on the edge of my seat for this one. Could not have been more up my alley! Plenty of hair-raising scenes - I think the scene that made me yelp was when Leti was trying to sleep and the ghost was tugging the sheets off her bed. And then you see the mangled face of the ghost peering up at her beside the bed ((shiver)). But once again, the scariest element wound up being the humans, rather than the supernatural entities. Jurnee Smollet was amazing - I was cheering when she grabbed the baseball bat and went to town on the blaring horns in her heels and fabulous dress. Absolutely badass. The exorcism scene with the hoodoo priestess was also amazing - she looked genuinely spent at the end. I loved the way the ghosts reassembled themselves as they were being freed. The babyheaded basketball player was initially terrifying then somewhat absurd. I guess it was in there for shock value, because it was hard to make sense of it: scary and then kind of funny. The episode was rich with call-backs to real life events. I caught the reference to MLK, but didn't know originally went by Michael as a first name. I did not catch catch that one of the little kids playing with the Ouija board was supposed to be Emmett Till. I didn't know that he went by Bobo, or that he was actually on a visit when he was murdered in the South. Heartbreaking. I couple of things occurred to me while watching - I think the story element of experimentation certainly references the long history of unethical medical experiments that were done on African Americans. And when Leti was being tossed around in the van, it certainly called to mind the long and history of police abuse (in some cases outright abduction and detention with no charges and no legal representation) rampant in Chicago. Certainly other cities too, but Chicago's history in particular has been horrific. It did have me wondering how Leti managed to get out of jail so quickly. For me it was such an entertaining episode and had such a satisfying conclusion, I almost don't want to watch further episodes. And kudos to the production designers for a great spooky house, and the costume designers for some stunning clothes. I'm with the poster above who is finding the actress playing Christina a bit flat. She's very pretty, but I find myself totally bored whenever she's on screen, so I wasn't thrilled to see her and her rolls return at the end. I'm actually not all that interested in the wizard stuff, but I am hoping for more interesting side-journeys in future episodes.

Agree with the above. I found Sutton ridiculous at first, but I feel like there is a nicer more thoughtful person hiding in there somewhere. She actually seems a bit sad to me - like her entire identity is now wrapped up in buying designer clothes (ones that don't necessarily flatter her either). It's a shame she's not allowed to show family scenes, as I'm curious about how she would interact with her kids. I like Garcelle and Denise together - Denise is much more relaxed and "herself" in Garcelle's presence. I think Denise has been evasive, and she definitely looks likes she's on something in her talking head interviews. I'm willing to give her a pass, because she doesn't seem malicious, and she's proven herself to be a decent stand-up person with regards to messy dealings with her ex, as well as her own and her ex's offspring. She also has a work ethic - soap operas are no joke when it comes to long work hours.