haydensterling

Jimmy doesn't look like he's having fun at all running the cons with Marco. Dead eyes, sleepwalking through it. That was why I thought the montage worked--it was a snarky counterpoint to Jimmy's actual experience of running cons again. And in no way are his Chuck-worshipping days over. Those two have a lot more dysfunction in them to suffer through.

That breakdown in the bingo scene hurt. Another great bit of acting from Odenkirk. But I'm feeling a little lost about everything right now. It was an odd note to end the season on, perhaps? Jimmy went back to ABQ because of the calls from his senior clients. I wish I had a better idea as to why Jimmy suddenly decided to walk away from Sandpiper. Even though everyone in this episode seemed to care about Jimmy, you still see that none of it matters to him. The only thing that matters to Jimmy is Chuck, and as Jimmy put it "My brother thinks I'm a scumbag". Jimmy has given up on himself. I don't think Jimmy sees a reason for himself to be good unless Chuck sees him as good. Really sad. Also the knowledge that Jimmy's mom died three years back. I couldn't quite make it out--was the implication that Chuck and Jimmy didn't stay for the funeral? Chuck sure was a prick to the kid who was bringing him his food, huh? What a shocker.

I just rewatched and I noticed something gross about Brandi. Her face, her dress, the color and texture of her skin--it's all like a walking mound of Silly Putty. If we stick Brandi to the funny pages, will she have newsprint on her face?

Thank you for opening the Jimmy and Kim character threads! Much appreciated, mods!

Yay Jimmy thread! Hopefully episode threads will be a bit cleaner and we can discuss to our heart's content here!

Sign me up as a Kim fan. I'm still holding out hope that she'll end up in Nebraska smiling at Jimmy in the food court.

Matilda, interesting points you make here about Brandi and I enjoyed turning them over, food for thought. Playing armchair psychiatrist, it works for me. I so don't know if I can deal with Brandi or Kim another year. Maybe if I can look at them like I would a sports team? Which NFL team is Kyle? Which NBA team is Brandi? Which member of the FA is Lisa? What does Kim play? Weird, I know but look, I have a headcold which puts me at 87% pain and 100% confusion. Juneau, the menopause BS pisses me off so much about Brandi. It's ageist and shitty of her, and she's also so damned stupid that she doesn't realize that she's already in it.

I feel terrible because I watched late last night and I thought that this was a very boring start to the reunion. I can see that Andy is going to kiss both Kim and Brandi's ass for another year though, so I think I might be done after this. Seriously, I got nothing. Brandi is an ass, Kim is insane. Yo is sick, I'm sorry for her, but she's not required to protect anyone when their behavior has been shitty, and it kind of annoys me that she would defend Brandi's inability to recognize that she constantly goes too far. Whatever.

Drinking cucumber water in a place where he rents out his work and/or living space doesn't exactly add to the list of morally corrupt things Jimmy McGill has done. I think some of these suggestions are starting to get a little off the wall. We all know that Jimmy is going to become Saul. This is a given. Trying to shoehorn in 'He drank the cuke water!' to prove his asshattery kind of fails for me, personally, since as written and performed on the show, Jimmy has been a decent guy--not a monster, and not even close to anything akin to Walt, and we know that he won't ever come close to that level, either. I sort of doubt Vince would make two shows about the exact same type of protagonist so I don't really expect to see Jimmy start to poison little kids or leave colleagues to rot in underground meth labs. Chuck's sabotage wouldn't have gotten us all talking to the degree that it did unless we identify with Jimmy, so I'm going to step away from this discussion because it feels like it's gone almost entirely off the rails.

I love Go, Land Crabs! for Jimmy and She Has a Two-Year Plan for Kim. Thanks, editorgrrl!

I just want to point out that Chuck isn't exactly the most reliable narrator himself at this point. If I'm supposed to believe that he knows without a doubt that Jimmy was, is, and always shall remain Chief Fuckup of Cicero, Illinois; now about to be loosed on a world which is quaking in its boots before the horrible, eeevil nature of James Chimp McGill, then maybe they should have picked a character who didn't need to go outside wearing a protective space blankie to deliver said message. Kim seems to think Jimmy's an okay guy for as long as she's known him, which means that aside from his obvious hate boner for Hamlin, he's probably been pretty good to the people around him. I think that Kim's a more reliable judge of character at this point in time than Chuck, IMO. Is Jimmy going to become Saul? Unfortunately, yes. But the character I have been presented with so far is not a bad person with a capital B, he's a low level scammer who got caught and spent a long time trying to do right so that his beloved brother could be proud of him.

I'm not sure this is the thread for it, but I'm terrible at this. It's clear that we need separate threads for Kim and Jimmy since discussion of them is beginning to take up the episode threads--especially w/r/t RICO and Pimento, and I asked a mod if we could have them--the answer's yes, we just need titles. Any thoughts?

Is the show playing it up a bit w/r/t Jimmy's having an office in a nail salon? I thought it was funny, but seriously where Jimmy's at. Also, this isn't BrBa. Saul was never on the same level as Walt. Gould may say that Chuck is partially right, but in this case partially right means a Johnson, not a Heisenberg. There's a big difference between the two. The problem may be that Bob Odenkirk is playing this role with so many layers that some of us just can't look at his character and see him as this innately 'bad' person. But I don't think the writing really supports that take on Jimmy, either. A bad person wouldn't do what Jimmy did for Chuck. I think the worst epithet one could tar Jimmy with is that he's perhaps a bit hasty and always looking to play the angles. But those are also qualities that can be seen as good ones, depending on the situation. Discovering the dirty goings on at Sandpiper was, I think, precisely because Jimmy is skilled at playing the angles--if he sees one, he recognizes it. That skillset makes him a good lawyer.

Toast, I'm not huge on the whole death of the author bit, but there is a point in most works at which the reader or viewer is going to find themselves in disagreement with what the creator of the work intended; I can think of any number of television shows or films where I find myself seeing what's been presented and having a markedly different reaction to it than was intended by showrunners or directors. Isn't that also what makes talking about this kind of thing so much fun? We all bring a part of our own perspectives, and it colors the way we view things The concept of the 'Word of God' is neat, and it can even be useful if some aspect's been particularly ambiguous or confusing, but I don't think it should count as the be-all end-all, bottom line for what the artist has made. The beauty of a good work of art lies in the various ways one can interpret it, regardless of the creator's intent. Anyhow, I hope we can all continue this discussion in the same vein. Half the fun is in getting different reads or takes on what we're shown. Erm, to get this on-topic, I'd read somewhere that the very short bits of film that play under the title card are meant to be in some way indicative of what's going to happen on the show; has anyone else seen this? I wish I had the link. Anyhow, having read that, it made this episode all the more depressing. Jimmy McGill ends up in a urinal, water flushing around him after he's likely been pissed on. As blackly comic that is, damn does it sting. ETA didn't realize I was rehashing something already posted, I was typing my thoughts as the other post went up. Sorry. :)

I cannot shake this episode. I'm still so angry. Let's face it--Chuck is jealous of Jimmy. As far as I'm concerned, he should be. Jimmy may have been of a dubious character back in Cicero, but he also has a quick mind, has a sort of silly, self-deprecating sweetness about him, works hard, takes what seems to me to be a genuine interest in other people, is charismatic as hell, and most importantly, he has heart. A lot of fucking heart. Jimmy actively cares about the people in his life, and I don't care too much if he calls the older clients 'geezers' behind their backs when he clearly also gives a damn about what happens to them. Correct me if I'm not remembering this one hundred percent, but didn't Kim say that Jimmy would be good at elder law, or make the implication? She was right--Jimmy would have been good at it, if Chuck hadn't essentially broken that heart and given him that shove down the road to becoming Saul. What does Chuck have when you stack him up against Jimmy? Not a whole lot. He's bitter, resentful, and he's been screwing his brother over for years. Years. I don't care if Jimmy skated through life and Chuck had to watch that. The fact that Chuck has been fucking with Jimmy so hard and for so long makes him a fairly repellent individual, in my book. I see Chuck as being so afraid that his brother might be a better lawyer--on top of being a more decent human being, for god's sake, let alone all the other positive qualities Jimmy (and the writers) have shown us, that Chuck becomes nearly grotesque. He'll fuck Jimmy over, but he'll also let that same brother take care of him for the past eighteen months. Sewing his damned space blanket into his suit for him. Sitting with him on the bench, feet in the grass. Ah, fuck. All that Jimmy's done for Chuck and he's nothing but a chimp with a machine gun? Sorry, but Chuck has profoundly misread the situation. It's such a betrayal, to learn that Chuck was that calculating and that aware of what he was doing. Hell, it's why he got sick. The guilt was eating him alive. And such a coward, that he had to hide behind Hamlin. Vince really knows how to write dysfunction. I think this might be the theme of the show. Dysfunctional families and relationships, and the absolutely ruinous damage they cause, well into old age. Mike is still trapped, Jimmy is just starting to realize he's been trapped. Oh well. I'm hoping this will cause a big setback for Chuck, and by the time Christmas rolls around, Santa will have dropped some nice, expensive electronics down the chimney. I'm not sure I'll get what I want on either count--I'm notoriously bad at reading what kind of curveball Vince is going to throw, and I was always completely blindsided by everything that happened on BrBa--but I can dream. From what I've seen of Jimmy so far, there's nothing in the writing or Odenkirk's take on the character that tells me Jimmy wouldn't have been perfectly happy up in that office with the good view, regardless of whether or not Kim had joined him there. What Jimmy really wanted was for Chuck to be proud of him, to have his brother's approval and love. That would have made him happy. Chuck threw all that away. I have no sympathy for him. Damn, did Michael McKean play that scene brilliantly or what? I hate him. I'm kind of ashamed to say that I wasn't sure if Bob Odenkirk could pull off being a lead in a dramatic series. But damn, did he play that scene brilliantly or what? I love him, and Jimmy needs many hugs, but Bob needs some Emmys and some Golden Globes, because he deserves them. I'm hoping we don't lose this Jimmy too quickly. I like him a lot, and I'd even love to see some flashbacks to when Chuck and Jimmy were kids. Where the hell are their parents, anyhow? Am I forgetting something else? I'm still so blown away by the Jimmy/Chuck interaction that I didn't even get to Mike. What I loved about his monologue to Pryce was that he's basically describing himself and Jimmy. Mike's a criminal, Jimmy's going to become more of one--goddamnit Chuck!--but neither of them are going to become Walter Whites. As an aside, if anyone here's ever read the book You Can't Win, by Jack Black, that whole speech from Mike is basically what the book's about. You may be a bad guy, but you can still be a good bad guy. Good bad guys are called 'Johnsons' in the book. Mike and Jimmy are Johnsons. I'm afraid to watch next week.

Damn. I really hope the final episode of this show has Gene working at the Cinnabon and he looks up to see Kim giving him a big old smile from across the food court. I think I could handle all the kick the Jimmy moments if it wrapped up that way.

I don't disagree, it's just that this show hurts! As I said, I like Kim's character a lot, and I think she did what she could, but my anger at seeing the headfuck that Chuck pulled on his brother made me want more, like Oliver Twist. I wish there was something anyone could have done to help Jimmy with the pain of realizing what Chuck really thought of him. I'd be happy if Kim left HHM, I can't lie.

I like Kim as a character, so I should probably clarify. Clearly no one can go up against the great Chuck McGill. Still, as Jimmy's--let's say 'close friend'--her decision to stay with HHM feels painful to me; I think it's likely meant to. I know she has her own dreams and her own plans for her life; it's just that Jimmy is getting kicked in the ass so hard and with such frequency that I wanted someone, anyone to have his back, and the only person left for that is Kim. It's tough to watch a show where the protagonist is repeatedly getting his heart ripped out. Jimmy needs a break. And a hug.

Lurker, but: Chuck can get fucked in a big way. I was so hoping that this wasn't going to be the way things played out, alas. Fuck Kim also. She will be redeemable for me when she leaves the firm of scumbags.

Kyle just said on WWHL that she's been to Al-Anon. Given the course things took over the season, I almost believe it.

WTF is Little Kathy doing all over the place? Two Richards women are enough. Brandi is such a joke with her hysteria over her father. Go talk some more shit about your family in your book. I loved Maurice getting the fuck away from the table as soon as he saw that shit was about to go down. He's been to far too many of these parties to not see the writing on the wall. I just fucking love Eileen. Forever and always, whether she comes back or not. Love Kim telling her stylist and her TH that Lisa R. is messing with her reputation. Kim, you have ruined your own reputation. No one is responsible for what you do but you. Lisa R is being assy in not backing Kyle straight up, though I personally understand why she's afraid of doing so. I wouldn't want to say shit about the crazy elephant in the room either, especially when the elephant in the room is such a nasty bitch. Ultimately it doesn't matter since the edit is in her favor and all Kim has to do is turn on the television. The absolute worst anyone can say is 'why were you reluctant to speak up about what Brandi had said about Kim'? which let's face it, is not all that awful. Kim does not have two brain cells to rub together. Lisa R. is on the money about one thing--Brandi is terrified about her manipulative BS coming out to Kim, who is the last person Brandi has in this group. So sad that it's coinciding with her dad's illness but this is what happens when you're an equal-opportunity asshole to people--chickens come home to roost when you might not have to ability to deal with your shitty, lying fallout. Please let Andy calling Brandi out in that little preview mean that this is the end of this bitch. End scene, bring on the fucking reunion.

Whoever ghostwrites Brandi's blog and trawls this board for info? Please tell Brandi that her anxiety issues are well-deserved, couldn't happen to a nicer person, that her shitty plastic surgery is making her look like Jocelyn Wildenstein, and that a lot of us really hope that Andy finally bites the bullet and fires her ass.

What's up with Kim that she can't or won't observe even the most rudimentary of social niceties is that she's a fucked up, bitter, nasty bitch. But that's not important any longer. What's important is that she get her ass booted off this show.

Palm Springs is very old Hollywood style glamour with regard to housing, surrounded by a beautiful landscape--the San Jacinto mountains, which give the whole area an almost surreal look. There are amazing hikes you can do there, go to the Indian Canyons, have a date shake (yum!) or hit up one of many great places to eat, a quaint, old village feel while also being very cosmopolitan in its way, as well as being extremely gay and lesbian friendly. There's a lot of fun to go around. If you're really into the Hollywood of the past, the city itself has a certain cachet because everyone who was anyone lived there part time. The histories of both places are closely intertwined. My first apartment was around the corner from George Hamilton's place, or as we called him, George Hamiltan. Bob Hope, who most probably don't give two hoots about today, had an amazing house up on a mesa that's visible while you're on your way to pick up your groceries at Jensen's, which is the best supermarket in the whole world. The consignment shops are out of this world and filled with terrific, crazy stuff. The temperature is really only 'unbearable' to a non-native in July and August and even so, you get used to it pretty quickly. You get a lot of snowbirds. Personally, I prefer the people who choose to make it a permanent home rather than a weekend home, but whatever. The rest of the year it's very temperate, winters are amazing, pools are heated and cozy and the air is exceptionally dry. I'd much rather be there than in the wet heat of the East Coast. I love all desert cities, so I'm biased, but especially towards the Springs, since some of my happiest times were spent there. Frankly, it's a great place to be. I'm also partial to Palm Desert and Indian Wells. It's a beautiful place. No. I'm not on the Chamber of Commerce or the Board of Tourism. I just love it. On point with the episode, Kyle's new house definitely appears to be in La Quinta, about a thirty minute drive past PS up the 111, where a lot of the very expensive builds tend to go up.

I think a point is being forgotten here. Lisa: I have been with the girls and there has been a lot of conversation. I'm trying to figure you out. They're very upset. They don't understand why you're so mean and I go "Okay, well, if she's mean why is she mean? Like, what happened to you, have you been abused? Like, I bring all this up because I go "Is she in pain?" Lisa R went to talk to Brandi about why she was so nasty when she drank. That is how the conversation started out. It had nothing to do with Kim from jump. Brandi was the one who cunningly deflected onto Kim, which is how this whole ball got rolling. Lisa R was disgusted by Brandi's behavior and frightened by Kim's, but she thought Brandi needed help. Brandi is the one who didn't want to hear it, so she threw Lisa R a big shiny bone about how Kim a) is wearing a patch b) can't handle all the pressures and the strain of caring for Monty c) will kill herself if anyone talks, etc. Once you hear that someone who you have seen using is now talking self-harm or considering suicide? All bets are off. You need to speak up because if, God forbid, something happens to the person and you knew but didn't say anything? Because you were worried about social niceties? The problem here is not, IMO, that Lisa Rinna is a big mouth, but that she wasn't yet aware that Kim Richards is not the fragile flower that Brandi painted her to be. And maybe the thought of someone hurting themselves put a big enough scare into her that she was sidelined by Brandi's (again IMO) successful attempt to get out of yet another 'mommy lecture' from one of the Menopause Mamas.