TaurusRose

Truer words have not been spoken.

So, in other words, Jaime has always been an idiot.

I will never not enjoy Arya killing Trant or the Freys. They all deserved exactly what they got, and Arya gets props for killing them using methods similar to those that got them on her list in the first place. Trant loved beating and hurting girls, including St. Sansa. Walder Frey gloated about murdering Starks, abused Robb's corpse and killed a wolf trapped in a pen unable to defend itself. The wolf killing alone earns those fuckers a special place in hell as far as I'm concerned. So, I say: go, Arya. Burn every name on your list.

It's also your opinion that she gets pleasure inflicting pain, that's not been implied by anything Arya has done, in my opinion. I think she feels satisfaction when she brings justice to those who have harmed her and hers. Look, I get it. You don't like Ayra, but the people she's killed needed killing. Joffrey was sadistic. I hope you see a difference if you compare Arya to him.

Inability to resist nitpicking? Desire to know more than the writers? Unwilling to accept this is fantasy? Hellbent on sucking all the fun and enjoyment out of GoT?

Knowing how the game works doesn't make her a leader. Neither Cersei nor LF are leaders. They are egotistical and power hungry despots. They pursue power for power's sake, not to do anything particularly good or noble with it. And, if anything, I think she's beginning to understand that what works in KL doesn't work in the North. Her KL education may help her deal with the biggest threat at the moment, which is LF, but not so much when dealing with Manderlys, Mormonts, Karstarks and Umberlys. Running Winterfell and carrying out Jon's orders (because no matter what people think, Jon had put a plan in place) doesn't mean she's qualified to run a kingdom, if that's what you mean. Jon is a leader and I think Sansa has learned from him and realizes that leading is hard. I daresay her little showdown with Brienne made her realize exactly where Jon was coming from when he pulled rank on her about the castles she wanted to give away to unknown loyalists after BoTB.

Thanks for the response.

My statement is that there's a faction within this fandom that seems to think all the Starks are stupid EXCEPT Sansa. She is rarely called stupid. My position is the Starks have made some bad decisions based on trusting the wrong people (LF, Theon) or underestimating their adversaries (Lannisters), but that doesn't make them stupid. But has GRRM called them stupid? Is D&D writing Jon/Starks dumb? Have they said that?

Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Did GRRM write all the Starks plus Jon Snow as stupid people with the exception of Sansa? Because that is not my interpretation, and if he made such remarks after the fact, you will excuse the book readers who base their opinions on the books and not author commentary at conventions and what not.

Responding in House Stark thread.

Huh? Not following.

I don't think the show runners are writing Jon or any of the Starks as dumb. I think that's the way some fans choose to look at them, unless you're talking about Sansa. Not trying to start a fight here, but it seems that Sansa is exempt from this label.

Yeah, because that would have worked. I'm pretty sure the one they had brought down the huge army we saw with its screeching. What makes you think a straggler wouldn't have done the same?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! ?

Still failing to see how that qualifies them as stupid.

Leave him alone! This was only his second fight and who'd have thought those ice thingies could kill his brother!? Poor baby was in shock, scared and traumatized.

Only in this day and age could selflessness and bravery be even remotely considered "stupidity". I guess that's why our world is in the shape its in.

I didn't like book!Catelyn at all, but it was Michelle Farley's portrayal of her that made me double down. She was cold, hateful and unyielding, and when it came to the attack on Bran, nowhere near as smart as she thought she was. Gendry impressed the hell out of me with that lung bursting run back to the wall. I would have fallen out for dead still in sight of the heroes.

Pretty much. LOL. Seriously, I have no idea, but she was unpopular, hated and despised by me.

What? What proof is there that Jon died a second time or are you suggesting something in the future? There was no speculation about Jaime having died in a similar situation, so I'm confused by this rush to pronounce Jon reanimated.

Tired of this narrative. What makes him a dumbass exactly? He didn't come up with the plan to bring back a wight, that was Tyrion. Jorah offered to go, but Davos pointed out the wildlings would never follow him. At that point Jon offered to go along for two very good reasons: he had the relationship and trust of the wildlings and he knew what they were up against. The plan was risky and doomed to failure to begin with, but Jon's presence gave them at least a fighting chance. When they found themselves terribly outnumbered and likely not to survive this mission, was he supposed to just lay down and die, or did it make more sense to make a desperate attempt to survive by reaching out to the only person who could step in and get them out? And finally, how is keeping the swarm of wights from overtaking his team as they climbed on Drogon's back the act of a dumbass? Jon was not the cause of Viserion's death and as soon as he saw the Night King taking aim at Drogon, he sacrificed his escape for theirs. Jon is singleminded in his efforts to protect his people. He is brave and humble. Jon has earned the respect of everyone who follows him. This is not directed at you personally, but the Jon "is a dumbass" argument is a lazy cop out. I need that position explained and defended, not just tossed out as a matter of fact because to me it's the equivalent of lemmings jumping over a cliff, i.e. lazy fan group think. After she proved herself worthy of his respect and fealty by putting herself and her dragons at risk by coming to the rescue, and by giving her word to fight the NK and his armies with Jon.

Whose to say he wasn't shooting blanks? Why do we always assume it's the woman at fault?

I'm guessing that after seeing a zillion undead things hell bent on killing you (while fighting for your life and damn near freezing to death) trumps being in awe of dragon rescue. Their main thought probably was "let's get the fuck out of here!" by any means possible.

I really don't see it that way. I think D&D have a thing for Sansa and go out of their way to try to make her more than, it doesn't matter if they have to write ridiculous scenes or put mind boggling dialogue in other characters' mouths. We're just supposed to take it on faith that Sansa is worthy. Well, I say how about writing the character better? How about writing some scenes that let me see that she's this smart, politically savvy person? The writing for Sansa is so poor I have no idea what she's playing at. Her dialogue is all over the place; so, I've decided she's a sketchy, arrogant, delusional little bitch. She should be locked in a dungeon with her Uncle Edmure because he was all about "Family. Duty, Honour".

No, Sansa doesn't see it that way. She really is more Tully than Stark.