SusanSunflower

Elizabeth must have realized from Claudia's "confession" that she (E.) had been set up as a sacrifice pawn no matter what happened and -- of course -- that Claudia's confession sealed her (and Phillip's) fate. See also that to protect Paige from Granny's protective mothering, she needed to stay alive (or at least outlive Claudia and her grasp) ....

Elizabeth leaving Claudia alive is the most egregiously stupid thing done by a previously "smart" character this season. I've been frustrated by how "dumb" they've made Elizabeth, with all the usual excuses offered by the audience on the boards wrt burnout, fatigue, stress, overinvestment (in Paige) ... Claudia will be the creature from the BBBlack LLagoon lurking until some -- predictable -- final showdown/shootout involving god only knows how many or few major characters. My guess is that Claudia emerge as Nesterenko's would-be assassin to be thwarted by E. (but of course) and as many others are following E. around for usual and sundry reasons ... I think the writers' claim to have "planned it to end this way" may be an inside joke given substantial loose ends and changes in direction ... which may explain much of season 5's flailing. I suspect they believed their own hype , but were good enough to realize or notice they had lost control of the narrative. Boards like this may have played a role in changing direction (after overinvolvement led them astray) . In hindsight it's easy to understand how and why Paige's story arc had to change .... but a lot of time and energy (and audience) was also invested in both Mischa and Yuan... We are likely to never know the how and why those satisfying characters and stories were dropped.

I only lasted a few minutes. I was tired and wary of another Masterpiece air-brushed all too pretty and neat and that's where I left it. The "girls" seemed largely indistinguishable, although some were prettier than others. Nuf. For those who loved it, enjoy!!!

more ambivalence and anxiety from Paige and more anxiety about Paige from Elizabeth and Phillip could have made a Paige-centric story arc compelling. Elizabeth seems to have decided very quickly that blabbing to the Tims (which nearly cost the Tims their lives) was a one-off ... or alternatively that Paige needed to be chaperoned 24/7 to avoid a repetition... Paige could have been given an eating disorder or panic attacks (at the sight of Stan) ... my point -- is that Stan did not need to be sacrificed to avoid turning "The Americans" into "The Fugitive" with Stan playing Yosemite Sam being foiled weekly by Bugs Bunny (not that the TV show "The Fugnitive" didn't last 4 seasons Worth noting that aside from law enforcement, Richard Kimble (David Jansen, brooding existential character) also had the "one-armed man" trailing him trying to get him returned to prison and the case finally closed. The Americans had Claudia as a third-party threat until she inexplicably (and to me suspiciously) became granny. Certainly we might have seen much more of how William's story impacted the FBI and the utter ongoing mystery of the wheat related (research facility) murder (even if the investigation dead-ended as I'm certain many investigations do ... until something triggers a reopening)

yes, there was an almost L&O meets The Wire dynamic in the first years where "The Jennings" became the underdog home-team with the massive wolf of the FBI lurking in the shadows... would the Jennings be discovered by accident or by cunning policework (despite the FBI being no more shining-knight-like than the Baltimore PD) ... all relegated to a barely simmering back burner (is the pilot light still on?) in favor of Paige and the almighty second gen story (which doesn't look to me to have ended up being dramatically worthy given the inconsistencies and lack of fiery even heroic qualities of Paige Jennings (see many of the drug dealers and gang bangers of the Wire whose backstories were compelling (see also Breaking Bad, even for those who found Walter White or Tony Soprano despicable.)

At this point, she would probably never admit to wanting to be a stay-at-home mom, particularly after the disaster of the Tims and that raving threatening harpy that Mrs. Tim turned into. Girls often don't decide such things ... pregnancies happen, people fall in love. Elizabeth (in particular) and the "family secret" "ruined" Paige's break for independence ... which was oddly drawn since Paige DID interact with peers in the first episodes and then seemed overwhelmingly adult-centric. Having mom around a lot might put the kibosh on socializing with peers and "boys" (don't remember, just remember the young folk fading way into the background in the food kitchen scenes. I think Paige had lost interest when it became her duty to suck-up to Pastor and Mrs. Tim.) I think Paige had a stay-at-home mom in E during her childhood, even if E. sometimes "helped out at the travel agency" .... Kids in preschool learn many lessons, including that Mommy gets jealous and/or regretful and how to manipulate them. They may also learn that teachers are waaaay more patient than Mommy along with being told they "have to understand" all the pressure poor over-stressed mom's is under ... Kids with stay at home moms get different shades of the same flavors ... Still kids are curious about things that relate to their own timeline. or what they thought they knew. I always feel bad about Paige losing "choice" .... even if she doesn't seem to notice.

sorry, total memory lapse on my part about Matthew's complaints wrt Stan, which were pretty common wrt newly single "dads" sharing custody (? on principle or because newly single mom insisted) . I have vague (possibly unreliable) memories of Stan being rather hateful about Sandra's new partner and their cohabitating ... part of why I was so glad when he hooked up with Renee because he was turning into a stereotyped single bad-dad. (although for Matthew negotiating a "dad's girlfriend" would be no more fun than negotiating "mom's new live in boyfriend" (shortlived?) eta: I gave the writing "points" for not making Stan's return a source of resentment for Matthew ... who seemed annoyed that Stan was letting-down his patient mother ... not in need of a "dad" but tv watching company would be welcome (particularly if a beer were shared and friends were welcome)

yes, and Paige was briefly interesting in her own right when she sought out Pastor Tim and the kids at church and eventually Mrs. Tim .... even if one suspected she might be trying to rile or guilt-trip her parents ... Having "the parents" become the center of the universe (because of their secretes) really sort of doomed Paige's attempt at Freedom!!!!

I never got the feeling that Stan's Matthew was badly parented and he seemed more mature (likely older IDK) than Paige .... Henry sought out Stan, much as a neighborhood child used to "visit" other neighbors, because no one home was paying any attention to him (not a neglected child) so he sought out the lady next door or across the (pedestrian) street ... he grew into a happy overachiever, Yale Law ... but always a restless and inquisitive soul even at 2-1/2. Henry "knew" Stan was rattling around an empty house and would like company (he did!) and someone to watch the game with ... Henry was't looking for "Miss Lonelyhearts" but I suspect Stan felt more comfortable advising Henry than he did Matthew (no ex-wife to disagree with him or critique). Comfortable that Phillip prolly wouldn't object. Notably Matthew was not seeking our (much younger) Henry for companionship .... something I have found IRL to often be a less than auspicious indicator -- big older boys befriending little kids -- whom they bully or manipulate.

I was surprised at how resentful I was -- after my mother's death at 69 -- by her choice to continue smoking. I had watched the progression of COPD and the "surprise" diagnosis of lung cancer (despite much medical care and declining mental function function due -- we learned -- from brain mets) when she had a seizure .... to far along for anything but palliative care ... Having watched numerous humiliating "attempts" to quit (she was fully convinced she could not) I accepted she would never quit and would likely die of tobacco related illness. I was 36, my brother just 30 ... and both of us in serious unrelated disputes with our older brother 45 (who she made executor) ... the family fell apart almost immediately after she died and for the last 20 years has remain completely estranged. Henry is likely to be orphaned, set for a lifetime of questions without answers or questions never asked because the idea that there would be no one to answer was never considered. Living life without a family is hard, regardless of the circumstance ... but I think the younger, the harder ... The legacy (and likely related secrets) of being the child of foreign agents will be a different burden for Henry than for Paige (if she survives, not that her burden will not be considerable).

If Henry and his family are separated, by death or other, He will also reel in their selfishness ... all the times they chose that "other" over him and the sense of neglect that bred in him. It's always good for a teenager to find adult mentors and peer role models, it is different when a teen is seeking what is obviously lacking at home ... although I felt Paige's contentment to spend night after night alone at home studying less "adaptive" .... that and her ghastly unchanged wallpaper inspired at what age by what influence? Roots?

yeah, I could never get past the first Rolls-Royce, not to mention the Rolex ... and an embrace of materialism ... It's too long ago for me to remember what I thought my friends were seeking but there was an idealistic quest to find a place to be one's "real" and "better" self ... which I guess is also part of where I fall away because the assumption that your "real" self is a "better" self should not be assumed, as we see so often with the lieutenants of these groups who, given an inch, take a mile and become abusers, often blatantly self-interested abusers.... which does not mean that "intentional" communities do not dot our landscape, many are invisible and quite a number are Christian (as I discovered after moving to Colorado and discussing Waco with my coworkers many of whom had family members living in compound or communities too-close-for-comfort). In California, they tended to be considered weak-willed loonies, a self-serving dismissal not only of Waco but also Jonestown (where a lot of more recognizably "good people" died)

I'd say they start as "seekers" for something eternal or spiritual or "bigger than themselves" (even just the obscure and exotic or often something as mundane and concrete as enhanced "personal power") ,,, The people I knew enthralled by Rashneesh had been enthralled by Muktananda and various prior guru types ... Even with their prior disappointments or disllusionments, the desire to remain within the seeking community was strong ... "Eat, Pray, Love" is just a most recent story of a pilgrimage of a sort that goes back literally decades ... Seven Years in Tibet dated to 1957,, In of the Sixth Happiness to 1958 ... see also Lopsang Rampa and others. My parents, an atheist and an agnostic, seemingly immunized me from most "following" tendencies but I've become convinced over a lifetime that many many people are desperate to get a chance at "getting back to the garden" (idealized and fantasy as it may be) of this sort of community. The desire is deep-seated and authentic., like wanting to "go home" eta: I think assuming this "homing instinct" is a character deficit or fault is in many cases a mistake. The desire to "find my real family" or sacrifice for a noble cause disappears for many with the passing into "adulthood" ... for others, not.so.much, only some join "cults".

Annoyed that "Henry's ambitions" are so undefined at this point .... Business School v. Finance and Wall Street, Medical School, Law School or something of more personal interest talent/interest like Communications, International Affairs or Politics -- who knows .... just still unexpectedly brilliant and ambitious Henry to contrast with good-girl good-student similarly aimless (beyond adult approval seeing mini-me) Paige.

Surprised how quickly I was drawn into the story about half-way through episode 2 (which had seemed sort of replay of series 1). The 10 year age difference between a street-tough 25 year old and a 15 year old (or 12, 13, 14 year old) street kid is enormous. Think Fagin and Oliver Twist. As is often forgotten, abuse only sometimes makes the abused a "better person" and it's absurd to expect selflessness or even much compassion out of those who have experienced little. So often it's presented as a puzzle that the abused, abuse in turn ... but it's more a matter of exerting power and punishing rather than "pleasure seeking" (see also rape). Again, as with last series, the fact that people can and do (almost inevitably) change (for better or worse) is writ large. When cornered, the old "survival" instincts are awakened with the adrenaline of desperation. Looking forward to next week. [O/T for Trevor Eve fans: Discovered "Burnt by the Sun" (which I've never rewatched) is available on Amazon. May be hopelessly outdated wrt African colonialism but I remember it as fairly sumptuous -- Not Jewel in the Crown level but similar genre -- my memory, a solid three 2-hour installment watch. Also Susannah Harker]

Henry is lucky to have found a group of peers in high school who are motivated and goal-oriented, rather than falling into the basement dwelling, video gameplaying crowd (with or without dope) so many young people end up in for a year or two before they move on to better or worse, at least that was my experience 40+ years ago that I have seen replicated in succeeding generations. Kids without "prospects" or support or resources trying to figure out "what's next?" on graduating high school without a college-attached goal in mind. I've said in the past that Paige's lack of social life and interests (beyond adult approval seeking) telegraphed to me a good-student teenager ripe for a lack-of-direction identity crisis (for which being a momma mini-me isn't a cure). As I also said in the past, I half-expected Paige to fall in love with and marry a would-be Pastor, off to Bible College, with at least 2 kids before age 20 -- marvelously making troublesome "choice" and "freedom" disappear. I begged to go to boarding school for my last two years (my parents went to very good schools, there was no way I expected us to afford more than that) to escape the daily grind of extreme boredom and my family's dysfunction which left me feeling like I was helpless drowning 24/7 -- I needed to raise my GPA and my study skills and felt a more competitive rigorous environment would help ... and help me get into the colleges I hoped to attend. It took until my 30's to realize how significant a factor "born to money" really is to the elite ... practically out of Jane Austen ... in choosing people-like-us as partners.

(I'm afraid it speaks volumes about P&E's parenting (very shallow) although in light of Pastor Tim and Paige's "donation" ... I think it was a pretty serious "flub" to have left that in. This is older Paige, knowing about "civil rights movement" Gregory and through Pastor Tim about poverty (and possibly Central American refugees/displaced) ... There is no way, 3 years into "dedicating herself to the cause" she should be so clueless and so incurious ... What does she know or care about Phillp's side of the equation? If P&E have any personal dedication to the oppressed they have not communicated "who" those people are or where they might be found. The hardships of the revolution and WWII were considered "worth it" in part because what came before and the alternative (German victory) were -- for the Russian citizens -- too horrible to allow. It was dire. It took amazing strength and endurance to both fight the Nazis but also deal with those who failed to keep their promises of aid and in some cases were subverting the Revolution. (ETA: Realized, the hit recording "we are the world" was released in 1985 .... it should have made an enormous impression on Paige)

Strange. I don't know your area but if USA, should be is viewable http://www.pbs.org/shows/ ( but I only see Season one E1-2-3, but nothing for series -- yes, but oddly enough I find it here (S2E1) here http://www.pbs.org/collections/new-videos/ (only a 30 second preview elsewhere)

Part of what's so soothing about British crime shows (most of them) is the feeling that the show's world is populated by competent and intelligent people who care and work slowly and thoroughly (which was much of the allure of L&O: original recipe) as opposed to Rambo Cops&Robbers/Cowboys and Indians shenanigans, guns drawn always. It's in little things like the obviously caring and observant child's teacher (rather than a too-busy-to-take-a-breath-or-care stereotype). It's a slower world, recognizable and appreciated, at least to me as a boomer. While the "inclusion" at times feels like tokenism, I do appreciate particularly the at-home scenes and not entirely for the "yeah, they vegg out in front of the TV just like us" moments, because there is more conveyed. I agree about the utterly suspended-in-time depiction of same-sex parenting -- usually shown as affluent and very secure (no working class stiff scared to be 10 minutes late to work tensions). I like DCI Cassie Stuart living with her dad, perhaps more comfortably (and convenient) for her than for him (not sure). An other police procedural I caught this week was a four part (1 hour) on Nexflix called "Collateral" ...darker, concerning smuggled immigrants ... caught some flack for being too politically charged. Cary Mulligan, Nicola Walker as a gay Anglican priest supervised by a gay Angiclan bishop (not for laughs, just irony) and other excellent cast.

The video above seems to make it clear from things she says explicitly, that the writers brought her along giving her little scenes and gradually expanding her role as she proved she could handle it ... It also doesn't sound like she has a drama coach (which she needs if she's going to prattle on about how hard it is cry on cue) and she seems very very young (younger than the character Paige, even as Holly has seemingly lived a very "normal' life where her highschool classmates don't even know she's an actress. She seems more affirmative about studying acting (previous interview was hesitant) but she may do graphic design instead, because a friend from school..... The word that I would use to describe what Holly lacks is "presence" ... which she says is true IRL ... nobody recognizes her ever. Heads do not turn. No one looks up. Which is vaguely odd since she has studied ballet "since age 3" and broke out in Billy Madison on Broadway years ago. ( I will give that Paige's good posture is a delight to see, but Keri/Elizabeth know that they have to use bad posture, chin down, shoulders up to avoid drawing looks). (Her breathless high voice and "nerves" in the interview surprised me also ...could not be a more friendly interview) Holly might become a better actor with acting lessons ... she seems to be being mentored by the writers and cast members who are very pleased and proud of her progress. She might also consider some martial arts training, even Tai Chi to learn how to keep her feet on the ground and her bottom in the chair convincingly, like real people in real life, rather than often appearing that she arrived just before the cameras started rolling. There's literally a "lack of gavity" ... she still looks and projects much too young and too "innocent"/bland. Note, the character IS beginning to project "presence" ... the actress (I'm not sure when this was filmed) not yet apparently. I'd love to watch her knock it out of the park this week. Note that all bets are off if the writers failed to give Holly -- the start of Season 3) a 6-8 page backstory/profile of Paige (the unspoken back-stuff we never necessarily see, but stuff like how she viewed having a new baby brother or starting kindergarten ... etc. Knowledge and understanding of the character (intuitive even) can go a long way using in impromptu fashion, things like sense memory with getting all Stanaslavki about things. eta:Yikes, and if they told her to model Paige after herself, a girl like you, double damn.

I think Philip has lost the confidence both that the Centre knows what they're doing and acts with some moral cost/benefit authority and, secondarily, are truthful in their presentation of missions. Elizabeth steadfastly remains blinkered about questioning anything (even the traitorous ultrasecret assasination plot she got roped into). I agree totally that this does NOT make Philip less patriotic (to the USSR) than Elizabeth (whose "like a good girl" following orders may be part of the catastrophe to come). I've read several depictions of the last days of the USSR that suggested that the happy-face bullshit propaganda was believed by no one but everyone was forced to pretend to believe it and act accordingly.

The suggestion making the rounds was that -- even without Philip -- Elizabeth would proceed with the kidnapping plan (to disrupt the summit) ... I think the kidnapping plan is stupid (it will not affect Gorachev's ultimate decision making) at best just disrupt any decision making....

I managed another 10 minutes of this "interview" .... the degree that Paige is Holly (and little else or more) is disturbing for a professional actress now 6 years into the role... I came over here because folks were talking about Paige as an age-appropriate "girl power" or normal adolescent character arc of feeling her oats ... challenging her dad as teenage boys often challenge their dad (and sometimes their mothers*) to be smacked down, have the wind momentarily removed from their sales so they can "get over themselves"... pretty mundane stuff, I'm sure the Waltons and Little House nailed it. I suspect that Phillip was "this close" to hurting Paige the same way a frightened and infuriated parent reacts to a toddler running into traffic. Often a too vigorous slap on the behind and too loud cussing out, that merely confuses the child (teaching them nothing). Paige isn't a toddler, she's deliberately refusing to take advice, even follow instructions and rejecting her dad (who is all too aware he is not her mother and has fallen into the category of "not like us") (God I hope Kimmie is not followed to Bulgaria (or wherever) as another headstrong young-adult. I hope her father rings the alarm the moment he cannot reach her in Greece or on reports her "new friends" seem to be having undue influence., Jim's longterm existence and recent visit to Kimmy at school should quickly elevate the matter to red alert) eta: after thinking about the "minimalism" of Binoche versus the more expressive acting of Deneuve, six years of carrying the family secrets should "show" in Paige's carriage and demeanor, like her real "loss" of faith with the Tims' departure (be it ever so shallow -- she once believed and then she was disillusioned, even if not necessarily with God). Do the Jennings still get the "good works" newsletter and fundraising solicitations emanating from their relationship? Paige had no idea -- back then -- how close she came to getting both Tims killed, now?

The very fundamental show premise of a new&better second born-in-the-USA generation of KGB operatives is severely undermined if the KGB confines Paige to literally following in Elizabeth's footsteps,doing the same assigned-task duties rather than using the birth certificate. Where did "braniac" always-studying Paige of the first years disappear to? (You know, one who might shine in a prestige college "international relations" program and learn to love debating).

A few years ago, the Jennings were "in love" in a way they had never been before (despite more than a decade of marriage) ... maybe it was the freedom and feeling of success that comes with having "good kids" turn into "good teenagers", I don't know. With this 3 year hiatus, I have no idea how long it's been since Elizabeth initiated "sexytime" (or if Phillip has been consistently rejected on the basis of her being too tired) .... I'm guessing months, except maybe for a few early morning rolls-in-the-hay ... Elizabeth has arguably (and not abnormally) used sex with Phillip as a reward, as a "mood stabilizer", a let's change the subject .... My impression of the marriage has always been that Phillip defers to Elizabeth because she is deeply competitive and must "win" ... to attempt to "change her mind" or disagree in normal nagging fashion is to be punished and still lose. He has to carefully pick his moment and his argument ... as we've seen he has largely "stayed out" of Paige's training/etc. but the "I'm not like you Dad" (said derisively) must have stung, because he knows she absorbed that attitude from E. Times to re-assert some "dad" in this family. So, how's that working out for him so far? Next episode may well be a barnburner. Kimmie-kidnapping summit destroying diversion seems like a lot of effort leaving the possibility of lot of fingerprints/trackbacks, particularly if Kimmie told any of her friend's about even the "finally had sex with my boyfriend who flew in on business" recent history ... (it also likely would have no effect on Gorbachev's decision about dead-hand ... fwiw) The writers/this show big-budget might happen .... seems diversionary somehow