SusanSunflower

All of the "Telling not Showing" about Paige's intelligence, maturity, natural aptitude for spying keeps being cut down by what we see. Also, the Paige's story -- that she was being primed to work deep cover, possibly career CIA/FBI/etc. -- keeps being invoked with no evidence it is actually being pursued, and fair evidence that Paige is unlikely to suitable for the rigors of that career path (which IMHO would have been interesting to watch, as would Paige entering the military or law enforcement with a 10-15 year arc of steady career advancement planned). I wasn't interested in Paige but I was interested in the prospective path to deep infiltration likely to be fostered and abetted by the KGB (chosing her major, her courses, her professors, etc.) ... Similarly her path to advancement (and deep infiltration as planned by the KGB) of the FBI or miltary would have "redeemed" the story by making it (cough) interesting. At the moment, in her fieldwork, Paige is being treated as no more valuable than Han was .... nothing to be fostered, no great loss if compromised .... it's mixed messages, particularly with the lackadaisical approach to her training and daily schedule. Hard to make Dean's List if you're spending your nights on surveillance.... I expect her to get rousted by cops on prostitution abatement detail .... loitering with intent.

Apparently, as was mentioned to me when I had the same objection, Elizabeth's pizza-eavesdrop mission was part of the Mexican-supersecret-coup-plot and so the KGB/Claudia/the Centre could not/would not be tapped for a backup snooper. Elizabeth (as a member of that tiny "elite" deadly potential coup) was the only person who was available or needed to spy on that conversation.

and I might argue presentism also in the idea that a wife (in the throes of psychosis) )would angrily track down her husband based on some "unthinkable" suspicion (even if she suspected he was seeing men) ... most women were utterly dependent on a husband's salary, particularly those with small children ... but I don't think that's why she didn't kill the person who she recognized and who had betrayed her. "Stereotypically" husbands routinely controlled finances, drank grocery and rent money away at the pub, women didn't drive and didn't venture out alone at night ... being divorced was sharmeful ... Let's also not forget that he would have been left with two children to raise as a single parent if she had been suspected ... good luck entrapping a new wife. seriously, nevermind ...

I guess I think she's mentally to unsound and could easily have been convinced of her guilt and her "peril" if anyone suspected .... Her husband struck me as untrustworthy. Why would she kill someone having sex with her husband (a "secret" of uncertain clarity) ... Postpartum depression is usually associated with children being killed as insatiably demanding ... or beliefs the children were possessed or that they themselves were terrible mothers going to ruin their children.. Suicide (attempted or successful) is not uncommon but violence towards the husband .... = nope. It's part of the problem with small babies, it's hard to leave the house for any reason ... most in the link below didn't except some notable drownings. 14 moms = https://www.babygaga.com/14-moms-who-killed-while-suffering-from-ppd/

If Paige is going to hang with Elizabeth, she needs gun training STAT.

No, I"m not talking about P&E being rounded up by the Americans (which may happen but seems less likely than their dying in the new month). Henry convincingly (because it's true) knows nothing ... Remember how Jared was treated like a victim and stenuously supported and protected from the bad-guys who killed his parents ... Stan might well decide to provide a surrogate home to Paige&Henry in the absence of any evidence either of them were involved (unless Paige is caught red handed). Similarly the KGB has not reason to think either of them know anything so a week or two with Stan could be an opportunity for them to get their eggs in a row about "the kids" ... I assume the number of people who know about the plot to kill gorbachev is fewer than the fingers on one hand (but Elizabeth is not safe because she knows there was a plot). Phillip should know nothing about it ... how much interrogation can he withdstand (assuming he survives) and/or if his meeting with Oleg are considered Treason, is an open question. I wouldn't put it past Langella to arrive like an angel of mercy and pull rank on the "outraged" Claudia...

Here's a short article about two close calls in 1983 .... http://theconversation.com/how-the-world-reached-the-brink-of-nuclear-war-not-once-but-twice-in-1983-68998 the American's didn't understand how seriously the USSR was taking their "evil empire threats" .... both incidents were "saved" by average soldiers refusing to counterstrike (after alarm of incoming)

yes, Hans might be allowed to retire, meet a girl and have a family ... maybe but soldier-like, he knew that was not likely and depended both on not getting killed or caught by the Americans but also staying in favor with the KGB, Elizabeth et.al. Paige has no idea ... her parents were invaluable as a "breeding pair" and top notch agents (and I have always doubted if the KGB values either of them as much as Elizabeth believes .... the poison pill assignment "should" have made her doubt ... In theory, with a dull enough cover, Paige could have a normal life, career, family and "breed" a third generation ... I agree that the KGB have spoiled her for such a rosy professional trajectory ... how ya gonna keep them down on the farm? and, if when E and P are decommissioned or killed, I'm guessing her enthusiasm will wane and she will discover "no exit"

thanks. And the USSR was undoubtedly disturbed by various (American) Rand studies about the "survivability of a nuclear war" ... The "paranoia" wasn't quite "paranoid" because the the costs of a devastating first strike on the USSR were being considered "worth it" and "survivable" -- dead hand was obviously seen as an important deterrent particularly considering the USA had used Nuclear weapons in the past) carter and reagan both .... it was called "MAD" for a reason

He may have hated her for a long time. The children of the mentally ill often have ambivalent feelings. His father was endlessly placing her ahead of himself and the family ... a saint, maybe? She's been his burden for seemingly for decades, an albatross. I found his cruelty deeply unpleasant and wondered if he was mimicking his dad in strangely banal revenge-taking. How infuriating to him that she's "safe" for the rest of her life. He seemed loathsomely immature. I wonder what the future holds for his father.

I think Phillip was so grateful for E actually initiating sex (and his being able to avoid rejection) that his recognition that there was usually some "transaction involved" didn't spoil the enjoyment ... Gregory helped make Elizabeth sexually responsive, but I think the first decade of that marriage was rather difficult sexually.

It's one of those modern sex issues wrt "hook up culture" and "using your assets to your advantage (your body, your choice)", once sex becomes more associated with quid-pro-quo transaction, in which you have string-free sex to both get sexual gratification and be normal within your peer group, how do/can you reclaim more mutually oriented romantic and satisfying sexual relations. Before the 1960's and Masters and Johnson, etc. many women assumed that they needn't enjoy sex but it was "part of the bargain" in otherwise useful or advantageous relationships. Men might not be happy that their wife was not in rapture in bed, but for that they could watch porno or hire a prostitute to play the enraptured sexual partner. It's a bit uncomfortable for me to see Paige, whose known romantic relationship experience was some not terribly enthusiastic couch fumbling, making out with Matthew, so eager to compartmentalize her sex life as personal/business with no particular regard for the differences. Elizabeth has "honeypotted" Phillip from the beginning. Phillip in his desire to be a "good husband" and in deference to Elizabeth's rape trauma has seemingly not or rarely insisted on "marital relations". Again there was that window, we got to witness when what looked like "true love" blossomed (including mutual sex), and now -- times get tough -- they're back to Elizabeth doling out the favors. yeechh. I find it pretty squick-worthy to see Elizabeth and Paige discuss such things, with Claudia chiming in. Screwing for food to stay alive or a roof over your head is NOT REMOTELY the same as voluntarily screwing someone to get a look at their files or to get a promotion or other perks, yet the former is for millions of women the universal condition; the other a choice to prostitute yourself (no judgment; indeed your body, your decision) ... Phillip's revolt over Kimmie arguably began years ago, when he refused to screw his mark ....

The son's malevolence seems out of left field, but, in concert with the husband's strange regard for his wife, suggested that she might well be being scapegoated for the crimes after being "driven mad" by 40 years or so of emotoinal abuse and that the son was, in fact, mimicking the sadistic behavior of his father. ... She may have had longstanding "issues" including PPD but I had trouble imaginging her as johnny-on-the-spot at the exact right moment to kill either or both men ... but that's maybe becasue I believed her husband to be manipulative, lying scum constantly deliberately intimidating a somehow "damaged" wife. I just realized I don't remember her "when I was young" backstory .... while I do remember that of the other two women, who while radically altered physicially own up to be part of a rough crowd.

yes, demonstrating that you are "all in" when applying to graduate school, but also special honors programs/symposiums figure too. These are coveted assignments/slots and those making the decisions want to see ambition and the ability to multi-task, etc. They know the value of what they are offering .... Academic grinds have the grade.but they may not play well with others or see beyond their own ambition. Even College-Barbie-Paige might well look like a sheltered mama's girl and her barhopping taken as a revolt against same ... part of the power of sororities and clubs is always being part of a gang and "safer" because you friends will discourage reckless behavior. Showing up to class with a blackeye and stitches in your eyebrow is memorable, but not in a good way. Agree strongly that the lack of FBI story is part of the problem .... needs balance and time away from Paige and Elizabeth, both together and apart, their trajectories are seem set and disappointing.

There's no reason Paige could not have been studying any of the Martial Arts for 5 years ... such extended study looks good on a college and/or job application ... and as with "all things" it would have been very good for her to spar extensively with partners not-her-mother Elizabeth and Claudia should be encouraging Paige to study and get good grades and even join various discussion or "good works' groups ... the better to network and develop a rep as a serious contender (in a likely very competitive environment). She's been playing look-out for years now ... studying to get good grades this semester is more important My worst years in school were in Junior College taking top-tier life science classes (with labs) along side pre-med students who were maniacs arguing every single point of each and every test (beyond the wrong answer they gave, they argued the test was written poorly). They also knew (of course) where they wanted to go to med school and where they wanted to do their residencies (and fellowships) in their field which they had narrowed down by interests and earning potential (and availability, eagerness for graduate student) One hopes there are other trainees (with need of the experience) in the pipeline who might have been used ... I do get a vibe of preparing to fold up the caravan that is not supported by larger real world outside of Elizabeth's death star orbit.

He was tortured (injuries to fingers) by the loan sharks (about the car?) which I think was a tie in to Jimmy C/Trevor Eve's character who "drove" and did odd jobs for the gangland/mafia typel. Yes, Sir Phillips son ... gorgeous

if this show wraps up before the summit with no resolution as to Elizabeth's special assignment .... unthinkable.

because exposure of the rogue mission Elizabeth is working on implicate people far higher than illegals and handlers .... it would also be demoralizing (something of a vote of "no confidence" for all illegals to consider themselves quite so expendable, when they are constantly told how important they are .... I don't think Elizabeth was "flattered", the need for saying nothing to nobody became very very personal.

Reminding me that P&E knew very early on that killing people was part of the job, even just in self-defense and defense of the "illegals program" .... and many (even most of their kills) have been of that kind (even with arguably over reaction or unnecessary) Paige really doesn't get how at-peril she is, much less her parents particularly if forced to take risks to save her... I doubt she really "gets" that accessory to a burglary of a military installation is not a traffic ticket and worse when it leads to nasty interrogation about accomplices. She seems unaware that failure is very much an option .... as Elizabeth pointedly had to explain to her.

I figured it was face-saving because of the summit and the numerous out of town vistors and attendees (and their antsy security detail) ... it can always be reopened and canvassing and investigation can continue under the cover of "tying up loose ends" regardless. The weapons manufacturer breakin probably shouldn't be able to be covered up but again, burying the investigation keeps it alive for kin but invisibile to most ... unless it is front-page news ... thanks writers!!!

As others have said, avoidance and deescalation are first principle of self-defense in real life, unlike when shadow boxing and demonstrating awesome martial-arts-likes moves in the garage ... and yes, even a girl can be blamed for escalating and throwing the first punch (rather than asking yelling "let go of me asshole!!!" in this case). That sort of aggressive impulsiveness gets folks killed in bar fights, not even always the people who started it, you never know who's got Goodfella dreams and a knife. It also occurs to me that the papers declaring the General's suicide a closed case could easily be a tip-off that in fact it was being treated as a national security issue ... given the evidence of at least one other party at the scene.

Y'might think that the stabbing in the neck m.o. at this point might ring a few bells ... since it's probably not a first choice technique used by "amateurs" although it may become recognized as superior (at least to trying to get a knife through layers of clothing and fat) after The Americans. A few episodes ago, one could imagine (and care) how Paige would react, but in fact, after her very quick recovery to the blood and guts in the park (and apparently lack of interest sufficient to read the newspapers), she become less interesting and very hard to care just how devastated she would be learn her sainted mother's killer instincts. It may be -- for the story's purposes -- the the USG has put a lid on most reporting, such as labeling the general's death a suicide publicly to end speculation. When will Philip realize that Paige knows nothing about the killing part of the job description and take corrective action? I've given up P&E realizing and acknowledging that the job is mostly , irl, assassinations and honeypots ... honeypots usually to get some low-level shmoe (male or female) )to betray his values and do somthing that ruins his/her life .... lonely single eager for a vivacious caring friend. Hard to believe Stan would EVER share details with Philip or anyone else ... particularly of a failure beyond -- we blew it (It unspecified) I feel bad. Yes, even if the Teacups had survived or Elizabeth intercepted, the attempt, the fact that their site was identified and breeched is a major failure. Yes, the DC office should have already been on full alert and the Teacups unceremoniously moved to a safehouse far from DC, summit, Elizabeth. A spa vacation in the Canadian Rockies.

I could see Paige arriving home in the wee hours of the morning, in an obvious panic, after being somehow separated from Elizabeth and not knowing where else to go .... part of Elizabeth's poor preparation of Paige for real life. Empty house, frantic Paige? I can't think of any reason for Renee to see the Mail Server murder sketches but we and Stan will see them again as they try to figure any commonalities between their recent 5 "random" unsolved murders, possibly summit related, (Am I right in remembering the mail server murder that generated those sketches of P&E?) I doubt terminally ill artist/wife has any reason to see those sketches either (but it may happen to show her spidy-face-recognition skills although she's only seen Philip (so far)).

I saw your post but didn't want to respond there because it's fairly broad conjecture ... But I had already suggested that Renee on a mid-night bathroom trip might see something "odd" over at the Jennings' setting off Stan's radar. She also might recognize P&E from the sketches (since they both look older, tireder and more like the sketches. We'll see.

I have suspected that Elizabeth's hair-trigger and rising paranoia could lead to some critical impulsive killing ... Renee would suit for this scenario. I was surprised many years ago at what close tabs my neighbor kept on, not only my comings and goings, but everyone else's and that she somehow thought I would have noticed she didn't get home until "very late" a few days earlier. I put it down to "Once a mom always a mom," but such vigilance might freak out Elizabeth or Renee reporting "odd things" over at the Jennings might perk up Stan's sensors.