SusanSunflower

Excellent! That explains by Renee the Gorgeous is still in the picture with Stan the Stuck ... because at some point, I guess she signed up for the whole better/worse package ...

Philip hasn't been "neglecting" the business ... he's been avidly growing it ... and forgot about longstanding (reliable) clients as he pursued expansion and new business .... no semi-retirement or excessive lazy days. eta: Reminded of business owners who claim their systems are so foolproof, "the company practically runs itself" and/or the office manager is so amazing .. 6 months before discovering massive embezzlement or that the manager has stolen all the clients, most employees, and opened his/her own business in competition a block away.

and the fact that he slipped the FBI surveillance likely would increase the priority of tailing him even more closely in the future (on the assumption that he didn't just slip through a crack but deliberately, methodically evaded them -- which he did)

yes, that "personal touch" is often undervalued, particularly when things are going well ... these days' they've made "the personal touch" and follow-up into an secondary industry ... but Christmas Card lists and remembering the spouse's name "mattered" even just as expected flattering, like picking up the tab for lunch (because you're worth it to me) ETA: Spiro didn't "lose" the client ... Philip did, and he (belatedly) realized it. Spiro "might" have realized the client needed more personal attention, but that attention from him (Spiro) might (or might not) have adequately substituted for the owner's personal touch

In Spy-vs-Spy land, it's entirely possible that their (enormously important) Summit-related surveillance target is recognized by others as a likely surveillance target ... so there might well be folks (with cameras) trying watch-the-watchers ... much as one does not need to suspect wire-taps to sweep for bugs, but finding bugs (even if you can't necessarily determine who planted them) is important information to have. Assuming other parties might be spying on you is part of the game.

Yikes -- poor lonely lonely Paige, tied to her mom and surrogate grandma for socializing ...

yes, and like most undergraduates, even good-student Paige could hardly afford spending hours a day on these "tasks" and "errands" for the Centre and to excel she needs good grades (and as mentioned contacts). Does super-Paige also have a job and/or how is she paying for that apartment? (I put myself through college and had zero social life because there were no free hours -- it's a bit of a sensitive subject for me. There was plenty I would have liked to have done, but -- oops -- gotta go to work) ETA: You're right, Paige should be being kept as far away as possible from Claudia and on-the-job Elizabeth ... too much risk of becoming some unexplained "known associates" or stumbling into the glare at the wrong moment. I know it's "just a TV show" but it's an uncommonly smart one ... Paige has become 2-dimensional rather than a character we care about

I think that the Center rightly knew that Elizabeth's extremely competitive nature would make turning Paige into a Nex-Gen exemplar a cinch ... Proving the failure wrt Jared was not with the KGB but more with his parents' objections. ETA: Yes, Hansen ... even more relevant. I had forgotten his name. The value of those turncoats put P&E and the illegal program into a different light. Sometimes I wonder that P&E don't realize how small the potatoes they are killing people over really seem to be ... particularly when there's bad KGB intel involved (too often)

If they are grooming Paige for a 30 year career as an embedded agent, particularly focused, she needs a solid grounding from the Soviet side. She doesn't need it to do surveillance or run errand. P&E have not particularly needed a much background to the tasks they have been assigned (because they're short term tasks, not part of an embedded life-style and curated community of informants). Again the KGB could simply be squandering Paige and next-generation golden potential. They knew the idea of a second generation was golden but now don't know what to do with her? Again, we don't know what she's studying, but she should be developing allies and assets among the faculty who will help her with her public career and the KGB would be excellent guides (advice most college students never get). Stephen Cohen of The Nation often mentions his long history as a Russian scholar over the last 50-60 years, the last cold war and the current chilliness/new cold war, and the friends and contacts he has in Russia going back to early college days (his interest started young), including diplomats, politicians and historians much older than himself (he's 79). He's been friends with Gorbachev for years. These contacts/associates/friends have gone in and out of favor/disfavor and suspicion in cycles over their careers as the winds change. Paige should be working on the foundations of her proposed trajectory -- whatever her proposed field of specialization might be, even if it's civil service (nice safe desk job) or law enforcement or military (which currently seems deeply unlikely, doubt she could pass the physical) eta: She will need also to be ambitious to get to a position of useful intelligence regardless of her intended career path.

Fun Fact: In 1987, Aldrich Ames (already a 25+ year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency), had already been spying for the KGB for 2 years (arrested in 1994)

Given the times, America's fascination with espionage continued to be intense (best-sellers, blockbuster movies), so Paige's book purchases would not be suspect, particularly if it somehow aligned with her studies. (I think E's concern was dumb and likely a mommy control issue). As a psych major, I became fascinated by the the acquisition of sexual identity back in the 1980's. Much of what I read (including some purchases) for a couple of years would have "intrigued" someone nosing around and likely make them suspect I had "issues" ... I was actually interested in the physiopsychology and brain/body connections. In college, I learned to only chose topics for research that I was genuinely interested in (experimental psychology). There's nothing special about Paige's interest in espionage either as a hobby-interest as research for papers.

I think part of the problem with Paige is that she is still grossly under-written and under-developed as a character. Do we even know what she is studying.... in preparation for - again -- what? She should probably be getting some formal education/deep indoctrination from the KGB (either directly or through a front) in history, foreign affairs and likely a language (if she not already taking that intensively in college). Russian might be helpful and believable depending on what she's studying/majoring in college. Similarly, assuming her college is related to some intended future path (???), she should be socializing and making contacts for her future education (master's/phd/internships). All that is left vague, making her spy-training seem like some on-the-job training and both Elizabeth and Claudia seem rather like babysitters. This makes Paige's semi-casual/not professional demeanor more "understandable" because the environment is not rigorous. -- but doesn't pass the smell test in terms of ensuring that Paige (who squealed to Pastor Tim) will not accidentally jeopardize two of the Centre's most valuable assets -- by some indiscretion by chance observed. (Both P&E's relationship with other operatives would be strained if they knew "mother and daughter", but I suspect some "special relationship" would be intuited on some level -- burr under the saddle distraction.) We can guess that Elizabeth never returned Paige's ID to her, much less explained why it was no longer an issue. Is the surveillance machine still in operation temporarily without Elizabeth and Paige or are have they moved onto other things. Would Paige wonder why? (do feel cheated to have no follow-up on last-week's-grisly-murder... but I think this week's death may turn up suspicion

Gee, I thought Nurse Elizabeth was anxious that the patient did not go gently into that good night before the summit .... because that would complicate the mission by ending her pretext for being in that house (inconvenient for her and the KGB). God only knows how E. intends to keep her alive with manageable pain, particularly if she's decided she's done. Watching someone in pain is also excruciating. I'm guessing she may turn up with some off-the-book magic elixer which will make E. the savior, maybe???

not only does Paige need to not know about the dead sailor, she must tell no one on the surveillance team about this thing that happened ... she can't even ask how they might have handled it or if they'd ever been in a similar situation ... Unless Elizabeth immediately called the Centre about the killing, I doubt she would see any reason to tell them (or anyone else) now. She is tightening the noose, by multiplying the number of people she is lying to.

A fake ID needs to stand up to some scrutiny ... and the photo can (and probably should be) terrible ... Paige is not particularly distinctive in terms of looks, in fact she's still rather Bambi bland which is great for making disguises (which Paige hadn't bothered with -- again is this surveillance 101 to be so "recognizable as her real self". ) A young girl (at any time) has the option of having gotten a hair cut, dye job, swapped glasses for contacts or otherwise changed her appearance and style since she got that ID photo taken. I gather kids on the east coast routinely have fake ID (even several) as we saw with Kimmie. (On the west coast when I was a kid, we hung out at friend's houses and -- for my crowd -- alcohol was not an issue. We could "borrow" from our parents, true also with cigarettes ... some kids had plenty of cash because they had rich parents or they sold drugs ... (1960's) I have no memory of fake ID being a "thing" ... I guess that's why I'm doubtful Paige's ID and (hopefully really bad) photo would "obviously" raise alarms. Another college student with fake ID with a nondescript photo. Who'd care and when might "they" make any connection -- except now possibly / potentially with the sailor's murder. The ID should probably check out wrt name / address (though they need not trace to Paige), but kids move around, and duh, it's just another fake ID anyway.... using "real" data for someone else. I don't think there was face recognition software ... even primitive.

Those sketches wouldn't be there if they did not figure in the future story (and likely call back to those other sketches of P&E seen by Stan, irrc). There will be more sketches by this woman and I'm guessing in the future some more witness sketches. My gut reaction was that they were playing into Elizabeth's growing paranoia (exhaustion and PTSD can help trigger this). Again, did she really need to kill the sailor? Was the information on the fake ID somehow "breadcrumbs" that would lead back to her or Paige or the operation or was she scrubbing the possibiilty in an OCD sort of way? One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the possible side-effect of the murder bringing even more detectives/cops who -- in searching for the murderer and/or witnesses -- disrupt or observe and recognize the surveillance. If the sailor had not walked away with Paige's fake ID, would she have needed to be taken off the surveillance routine simply because he might well recognize her or her car in the vicinity in the future and realize he'd seen her before. People suddenly hanging out in cars for no reason (watching the road) or a sudden increase in coffee shop business of customers taking an hour over a cup of coffee also might "ping" someone's radar as odd happenings, depending. Can't wait to find out what happens next.

I think she was outraged with Philip because she couldn't tell him anything about it, because that would be admitting Paige screwed up and that she might well have handled the situation badly (don't forget she too might have attempted to seduce the sailor (in suitable disguise) taken him somewhere "private" (a parked car maybe) and much less bizarrely killed him (more street crime, less OMG randomly stabbed with great force and viciousness in the neck) ... Personally, I don't think a mugger would choose that guy ... setting it up as maybe a killing by an angry woman he knew and had had sex with ... maybe ... (particularly if he was a known horndog)

Isn't surveillance "bread and butter" novice babysteps? -- training exercise 101 of little jeopardy with veteran operatives supervising, able to intervene after three (3!) years of "training", Paige's lapse(s) were serious and added not one but two (or 3) layers of more work for Elizabeth -- hiding Paige's error (losing situational awareness and being snuck up on), hiding the murder from Paige (E. can't pretend Paige did A-ok with a dead body as a result) and likely hiding the murder from the Centre -- oh, and even dealing with her other doubtful-of-Paige operatives -- all in addition to carrying out and hiding her extra-special (cyanidal) special assignment from everyone ... more bricks on Elizabeth's shoulders (and nothing that she could/would/should share with ... anyone ... ever.

I gather there are women attracted to macho men in law enforcement ... a possible reason for knock-out gorgeous Renee to hook up with Stan. Her interest in the hockey player and wife (relative celebrities and exotic fish) may be a continuation of enjoying the cool things that come from being involved with Stan and be simple brain-picking (coupled perhaps with Renee noticing Elizabeth's apparent undue interest in her (Renee) ... why is that woman always listening to my conversations??? Still -- Three Years Later -- still with Stan the stuck ... I'd probably have moved on ...

Stan's reaction to the divorce rang true-enough to me having seen several married men revert to "acting like they're teenagers" after a divorce, and not just because the "apron strings were cut" but, yes, they never really wanted that conventional life anyway (meet the new mother (your wife), much the same as the your old mother (who raised you) ... this was accepted as practically unquestioned Freudian truth that "real" men "really" wanted to be "free" of wimmin and their rules, and reinforced accepted sexism and misogyny (women, even just a steady girlfriend, cramped your style). I've thought about those "norms" that I grew up with, including the lusting after "jail bait" which was considered so normal as to regularly be the premise for advertising. I have seen nothing about current "norms" (attitudes about marriages, beyond financial concerns and demographics) or the vestiges of these attitudes as they contribute to ongoing sexual harassment as relates to the #metoo explosion Since then we've had plenty of other advertising nudging us to overspend and live for the weekend and buy stuff "because you deserve a break" or other reward. I noticed this year more suggestion that "everyone" takes a mid winter vacation (spring "break" for all ages), when I'd guess few "new job" holders can afford any vacation and that many vacations are charged (credit card debt is at another all time high, see also auto loans). Anyway ... this "boys just wanna be boys" ethos was alive and well with people Stan's age and the 1980's were a time of "sexual revolution" particularly for men being free of the expectation of commitment (some peak Playboy ideal). Est and similar groups became vibrant social circles of like minded "freedom seeking" individuals ... lots of dating, lots of sex. I can't speak about the psyche of law enforcement members, but "free to be me" self-actualization was in the air and largely male dominated (because they had the disposable income and marriages could be walked away from)

I think they were trying to show Stan as emotionally immature, even walled-off side effect of his undercover time (EST was supposed to help that). Stan quite happy to regularly hang out with Henry for the evening (even if he was apparently largely AWOL with Matthew). His reaction to Paige and Matthew also was as-if he were a teenager himself, amused at Matthew and Paige k.i.s.s.i.n.g, maybe even reliving his own "initiation" to women and sex, apparently without any "parenting bells" going off (condoms anyone?) All quite "stunted" or "immature" ... again, this is why (by my recollection) his first wife left him ...

Makes me realize that Stan's been written as if Noah Emmerich were ambivalent about renewing his contract -> the physical character marginalized and the character development stopped seasons ago - so he could be written out. I'd think that Renee -- whether a secret agent or not -- would be dismayed by his doldrums and ambivalence about the future. She's been living with the man for 3 years now and he's been (apparently?) largely treading water. He's awfully young to be "waiting out retirement" and to be telegraphing such lack of career ambition to his coworkers and superiors. Again, have I missed something? (I think much of the speculation about Renee is because we can't really believe that Stan's charms and charisma would be enough to "hold" a woman like Renee ... didn't "hold" his gorgeous ex-wife either ... Maybe he's awesome in bed? eta: My memory is that Stan had a very hard time adjusting to "normal life" after being deep undercover with the hate group people. Normal life was boring and he wasn't a hero anymore, not a lot of adrenaline. This was partly what set him up emotionally for cheating on his wife and getting involved with (verboten) Nina ... whom he tried to save (white knight) and failed ... I would "color him" with my depressed and mid-life crisis crayons, but he seems really quite happy-enough.

Found Martini and a very impressive cast in a Julian Fellowes production of an Agatha Christie story (sort of) on Amazon .... called "Crooked House" .... high production values, dreadful dialog, impressive cast, a lot of scenery chewing and magnificent production values ... (I thought it was dreadful -- mostly because the pretentious and ponderous dialogue and "artistic" camera work seemed to be adding unnecessary "complexity" by obsfuscation .... the aforementioned charms of Glenn Close, Terrance Stamp, Gillian Anderson among others are real ... not a bad way to spend an couple hours. It was rated "fresh" (71%) on Rotten Tomatoes when it came out in 2017, but was reviewed by a remarkably small number of reviewers considering its pedigree. Apparently it premiered around the same time as Branaugh's Murder on the Orient Express (57%). fwiw, Amazon reviewers said the book is really quite good and significant changes were made.

There was also a little bit of edge that the Jared pilot project "failed" because of HIS parents and their refusal to cooperate (so the Centre went behind their back); while Philip and Elizabeth would undoubtedly be supportive and so, no conflict. So give Elizabeth another gold star (and we'll ignore Philip's doubts)

I think how you feel about Joyce depends on when in the show you started watching. My memory (no idea which season) is that she kept being on-the-spot or too-close-for-comfort to the crime in the first shows I recall with an excess of wifely complaints that Tom's late for dinner or pulled away from the dinner table, late for the party, forgot my birthday, etc. Cully also seems too often unnaturally too-close to too many suspects. Then the writers moved away from that. It is funny how much the writing changes from year to year (true of many shows). I'm not crazy about the ye-olde-and-strange English countryfolk (bumpkins) stories particularly those involving druids and secret societies, etc., mostly because those stories have appeared often in other series and are often enlivened by making them more outlandish or arcane, sort of a cheap plot device. eta: Just remembered that in the first seasons (that I remember) there was an ongoing joke about what an obliviously terrible cook Joyce was, something Cully and Tom laughed at behind her back. Wince inducing.