SusanSunflower

I have no idea what will happen. I just realized that while Claudia's safe house has not yet been discovered or linked by the FBI and appears to have been "abandoned" by the KGB, it might still be under surveillance by them to see who/what turns up (including the FBI). I just imagined that Paige will need to leave that "safety" eventually (is the phone turned off?). The fact that P&E and Claudia have decamped did not make the DC area KGB free. As I said, I hadn't thought about them, with all the talk about whether Stan can/will keep her safe and/or how many years she's likely to spend in the penitentiary. Paige is pretty defense-less against all comers and the KGB could be another. Henry's probably too far away and too insignificant to worry about, but wrt to spite and vengeance, they may come around to "worrying" about him.

I hadn't particularly considered before, but it's also possible that Paige is at risk from the many remaining KGB operatives in the DC area because, yes, they know that while Paige may not know much, she knows too much and, more importantly, but she can be silenced quite easily and permanently, all the better to punish her parents.

My memory is that as an African American, Gregory was not going to abandon HIS struggle here in the USA. He would rather die a martyr (and example to his people) in the USA than live a long life in the USSR where he had nothing and no one.

It will be Claudia's narrative versus Elizabeth's narrative wrt to the coup at some point .... Elizabeth likely has nothing to prove her argument ... and change of heart, etc. The hardliners will close rank and play dirty (as we know they can and will manufacture evidence) ... I also wonder how Elizabeth will explain "Where's Paige?" She's been such a prima donna/MVP (while Phillip has more experience being doubted and questioned) it will be an enormous amount of stress I suspect even if Arkady gives his 100% support Read a book/saw a show a long time ago the premise of which was someone who "infiltrated" a coup and then was unable to convince TPTB that he was not part of the plot ... that just having been a willing participant (before blowing the whistle was considered indicative of a treasonous inclination. (might have been Valkyrie, no memory of context, but any "contact" was damning so the individual lived with a stigma he could not entirely shake ... years ago.

I'm not quickly forgiving .... as apparently Phillip is .... if Claudia had considered me or my spouse "disposable" as I think she did wrt involving Elizabeth in the coup, I'd have killed her. If Elizabeth, (my "wife") had endangered my child and/or lied to me about so many things, while I might "go through the motions" until the crisis was other, I would not forgive. I don't think that "life in Russia" is going to be easy for Elizabeth, in large part because Phillip will no longer be muzzled and hamstrung by fear of displeasing "The Centre" (further) by displeasing Elizabeth. Oleg said that Elizabeth's extreme "loyalty" to the cause could be used against her ... and it was ... but for years it was her Ace in the Hole. I'm guessing Phillip will not be willing to be so complacent and "forgiving" and Elizabeth will need to actually .... y'know ... discuss and argue things collaboratively, rather than wielding that great billy-club of being the #1 MVP. It will be interesting for her ... even if they both go teach at Charm School, for example, to be judged "on merit" rather than being "the favorite" which has bought her a lot of power in the past. Worse will be Philip discovering his own worth and talents when evaluated on his "merits" and not as the lesser partner. Or so I can dream .... Oh, and afaict, Claudia's not dead.

It was strangely done. I really expected Elizabeth's epiphany/thawing/reawakening to being human to come as a result of training her daughter to be amoral, inhumane and pragmatic (just shut up and follow the orders will ya?). I guess I'm more sentimental than I admit. Not with Erica and her art lessons before dying or via some Phillip mojo/magic -- who also needed an "epiphany" about what a bad father (and husband) he was being by allowing this "Henry is your department" division of the labor and responsibilities. Writers had many threads and avenues to take to reunite Phil and Elizabeth as a (badly frayed) couple (3 years of Phillip as rather unneeded and unwelcome persona non grata to the Paige/Elizabeth dyad ... with Henry some how connecting via speakerphone). IOW, Aside from the miracle of Elizabeth's reawakened humanity, there's also the magically repaired marriage and the kids seemingly not recognizing the marital estrangement (even if they separated a few years ago). I'm guessing they had sex maybe twice in those 3 skippped year ... once as a reward and once as an inducement, both initiated by E. Chilly stuff.

Actually Gregory v. Irina gave Elizabeth another opportunity to lay down the groundrules to Philip. Gregory, it should be noted, was a heroic figure, a veteran of the civil rights movement, a member of an oppressed minority and still "true to the cause" living on the mean streets. Phillip was a shlub in comparison, no competition at all -- except maybe that he knew that the Centre's plans did not include Gregory + Elizabeth becoming "invisible" illegals (not that they couldn't have .... just that that was not the model relationship the Centre was underwriting). Philip and Irina's relationship was long ago ... their reunion like high school with a bombshell secret child. Elizabeth didn't "really" care she just wanted to put Philip in his place (remind him of her MVP status) again. Irina (any past association) would have provoked some sort of punishment for Philip .... just to remind him of his "dependence" on E.'s good graces. Elizabeth never could admit that Irina (and that naturally evolving relationship and her sacrifice of Philip for his career) were part of what made Philip who he was ... although she may have considered most of those qualities (including less "ends justify means" -- kill her now -- pragmatism) as liabilities ... Like the person who is "really" upset that someone else ate that last piece of pie .... because they should have known how much they had wanted it .... Phil might be so flattered that Elizabeth "cared" as to never wonder why -- but we all agree "lying to or not telling Elizabeth" is forbidden.

I don't think that a stone-cold fox like Elizabeth had the "job security" issues that Phillip did ... YMMV ... I'm not going to fan wank that Philip understood that a stone-cold fox like Elizabeth really needed a safe-space where men (generically) were not constantly hitting on her and lusting after her, when (or course) they weren't raping (or trying to rape) her. Again, ymmv, but Phillip is and was an exceptionially "woke" male in many ways ... Matthew Rhys being a dreamboat helped ... ymmv.

my seething hatred for the Sherlock Moffatt/Gattis like "aren't we so very clever" Renee "cliffhanger"/ red herring knows no bounds .... seriously ... why not just castrate Stan and leave his bloody body for folks to gloat over .... What worked -- in spades -- repeatedly -- brilliantly -- was giving and enhancing the dignity of characters like Martha and Song-hee and Gregory (and other hapless victims of this amoral murderous pair ... Even Jared ... to include also both the mail-bot repairwoman and the older war-crimes pair) -- that was the strong suit that kept this beyond salaciousness (including and despite the honey pots) ... see also Oleg and Nina and ... still others.

To me, the reprieve of the Tims was an opportunity lost that I never got over ... because no, you can't go on with your life "like normal" when there are two credible adult people who know you are are KGB illegals (particularly with that diary in existence to corroborate the account "contemporaneously"... Dramatically it could have raised the bar enormously for Paige's character's understanding of how deadly-serious this was .... even if she just had to live her suspicions ** with seeing a report of a plane crash on the TV news (Bye-bye Tims) because ** learning to live with being lied to is an important skill set too (as we saw repeatedly). I think the writers deliberately wanted to keep Paige extremely naive generally and in particular as well as blood-stain-free (in anticipation of the ending) ... but it kind of destroyed the stakes of her characters (like riding a bike with training wheels and a handle for mommy to hold onto). I found Elizabeth monstrous to a degree I couldn't really get past. My respectful memories kept me watching but if I had known the ending I would have quit 2 years ago.

I think we all figured Martha might well end up dead ... which would have been very difficult to accept ... but then we had surviving Tims to suggest that the writers would not subject US to that trauma .... by all that is logical and holy, the Tims should have met a swift end .... and the Jennings would have had to deal with that (wrt Paige) however they could manage .... but as long as the Tims breathed, I figured Martha was probably safe-enough, even if that other women died with the staged OD and her baby wisked off to (iic) a Cuban future. Yeah, I thought Martha might be finished off with malice by Elizabeth or even Gabriel .... just because she wouldn't sit down and shut up and accept her fate ... how dare she object ...

It's scarier to consider that Elizabeth could not imagine Phil caring "so much" if he wasn't in love with Martha ... y'know, because she was an innocent bystander whose entire life had been blown up, blowing herself away from her family and all.known.things including a long term job she loved .... no biggie... just kill the bitch.

Reading today's posts I am struck by how much they made Phil a "perfect man" .... endlessly in love, endlessly patient with Elizabeth (somewhat less with Paige and Henry) but nonthreatening ... he wasn't going to hit or abandon anyone. He might be a bit glum and/or grumpy, but who can blame him. It made me curious as to audience demographics (about which I found nothing) but I wonder about how the size of the female share, reassured weekly by Phil's reliable decency .... Men and women love to look at beautiful (and beautifully clad and coiffed) women, so the draw of Keri Russell is considerable (not to mention Felicity!!!! -- more wholesomeness and decency). There's not a lot of sex on TV in the things I watch (I have mostly basic cable and Netflix and Amazon and watch so little I don't think my opinion is worth anything), but the sex on the American's was mostly again in reasonably "good taste" appealing (by my guess) to women as well as men ... lots of men and women on these boards, but I wonder a bit about how men view endlessly patient Philip whose wife honey-pots for a living, etc. note: I mean no snark or in any way to diminish Phil, I just hadn't realized how extraordinarily "accommodating" and understanding he was ... (in addition to letting Elizabeth largely rule the roost). I've thought that "The Centre" likely would have blamed Phil if Elizabeth (or he) and decided to end the partnership (separate from the marriage) but I don't know .... anyone?

Actually, I thought Gregory embodied her "Communist Ideals" ,,, black liberation, anti-imperialism, egalitarianism .... that all sort of vanished once he died and she could then settle into a very real and very very comfortable life of American affluence. I read an article ( http://blog.victimsofcommunism.org/spies-like-us-the-morality-of-the-americans/ )) obviously an anti-communist site that said Paige and Henry show not-the-slightest-trace of the "new man" consciousness (which i remember arising in Cuba with an essay/book by Che Guevara in the late 60's) ... their level of self-absorption and conformist ambitions is indistinguishable from the 1980's me-generation. I've never seen a hint of "communist values" in P or E except for E's infatuation with Gregory .... complicated by her so conventiently being already married and "unable" to follow her true love/ bliss. p.s. poor "smitten" Phillip and his blue balls .... really? Philip as SOL eunuch because he got a bad match from Center? Phillip who had known and loved Irina honestly ... another emotional history difference between P&E discussed at the time. eta: How much was "the thaw" also stimulated by Irina's reappearance and Elizabeth's sudden realization that Phillip was a separate individual rather than her duty-bound "husband"

The writers whiffed on Paige's reasons and motivations .... and so she seems "emotional" or "impulsive" or "stupid" .... who knows? It's par for the course with Paige's characterization. I was happy because "the door was closing" on the possibility of her escaping the dual life created by "the secret" and the guaranteed loneliness of being a spy ... of course, it's not guaranteed that she'll get to -- once again -- be "just Paige" but if she'd followed her parents with her doubts and misgivings, she really didn't have a chance. Note that I doubt that Paige could honestly, based on deep feelings, articulate why she got off the train .... she might say "Henry" or "I don't want to live in Russia" or "I hate and mistrust my parents" .... she's another person whose clarity and honesty with herself is uncertain .... but (given this chance) will be evolving ... she has lived in a straight-jacket these last 6 years ... dedicated to "the secret" and, of course, "the cause" (which she can barely articulate).

"Old habits die hard" .... even with the thawing and the "new appreciation" ... imho, Elizabeth was still pretty chilly (even with the kids) preferring (in early years) to retire to the master bedroom and read a book ... Between Elizabeth's bad-mouthing and doubt-raising about Phillip with Claudia and Gabriel (and I'm not positive of the seasons AND always attributed to her deep seated approval needs rather than trying to f**ck over Phillip -- even if she had that effect) ... this was never some equal-partner high-trust mutual-aid society ... beyond a few happy intervals of sexual afterglow ... I sort of liked the competitive / mind-game aspect because, as I said, Phillip was no door-mat and he knew well his mind-manipulation game and that he could get what he wanted (if he worked for it) -- there was a Mr. and Mrs. Smith aspect of them both manipulating the other ...

I remember "don't make me choose between you and my husband" as fairly common declaration of loyalty .... back when people took "til death we do part" and proclaimed they could not imagine separation or divorce .... Stand By Your Man ... was literal, and to me Martha embodied those, even in 1987, old-fashioned belief in the sanctity of marriage (which many newlyweds and born-again Christians still assert) ... my memory is that we saw Martha on several occasions "surrender" to Clark's wishes/demands with an acknowledgment that she was taking a "leap of faith" because he was her husband and bonds of matrimony. She forsook her parents, as I recall.

I think he had curiosity about "how the other half lived" ... since his only experience of marriage was what he had with Elizabeth ... which was an arranged marriage that had borne children but wasn't intimate.... With Martha, Clark had a woman desperate to be intimate and to explore intimacy and sex ... quite a contrast. That relationship could have been very different if Martha were a different sort of woman ... I think Phillip was stunned to see how willing Martha was to trust him (even when she shouldn't) because to her, via her American values, "that's how a "good wife" acts." I thought their relationship was very interesting in its contrast to P&E ....

Oh, I forgot that I don't find P&E particularly romantic despite more recent warming and have always seen Phillip (particularly in the early days and before we met them) as living with a woman who really did.not.love.him** and who, particularly given her competitive nature and belief in her own self-sufficiency, could make Phillip's life miserable ... so when the series begins, he's been walking on egg-shells for a very long time. They've settled into their "amicable" routine but she's the "kitten with a whip" and he knows peace depends on making her happy ... and she takes that for granted ... ** she might dole out sex to have children or as a thank-you or get what she wanted and yes, he did desire her. In contrast, Martha is interested in making Clark happy and simply -- to put it bluntly -- enjoying being having a boyfriend and then a **Husband**... soon to have a child and .... she's been dreaming of this all her life and she's not eager to find fault .... She doesn't challenge Clark ... and there being no kids, there are no parenting issues. I thought Clark was surprised (as were we all mostly) at what hopes and dreams and aspirations this "regular person" Martha had ... there was no minefield or eggshells .... But, nevermind. ETA: It was not that he was p*ssy-whipped, but this was a pragmatic and strategic decision on Phillips part to keep the working partnership functioning .... again, hell on earth and open hostility needed to be avoided to carry out the KGB missions.

I always thought it was fitting (and a bit ironic) that Phillip could really "just be himself" with Martha, who was not always eying him suspiciously or appraisingly. He was the man Martha had been waiting for and she was happy to make him dinner and make as much wild and crazy love as they could fit in a night. If he tensed up, she would probably change the subject. In comparison to "Life with Elizabeth" since the beginning, it must have felt like such a relief to be "loved" unconditionally ... (Granted she was being herself and he was being Phillip, the Silly-Putty Man, willing to be pretty much just-the-man-you-want ... which of course was a role he had been playing with E. for years) Still, the look of relief and relaxation when he "came home" to Martha was palpable ... oh gee, no kids too!

Acting is harder than most people imagine .... seriously hard work with skill sets that involve training ... but more than anything deep concentration ... I think the showrunners may well have underestimated the skill and dedication it would take for Holly to be credible -- "just act like a normal teenager" is far from helpful, having nothing to do with who Paige Jennning's is .... Paige (IMHO) not being a normal teenager having carried her family's (potentially deadly) secret for 6 years at age 20... a secret never to be mentioned or hinted at ... experiences that must never be referenced. Want to come over?? No, mom and I are going to be staking out some guy How many excuses not to join her friends did she run through in a week? When she wasn't home and didn't answer the phone? How exhausting to keep her "lives" straight and "act normal" ... Holly does seem very young, but we saw that amazing (to me anyway) leap in actorly skill in Keidrich Sellati a few years ago ... Henry had been largely absent and then had a knock-your-socks-off who is that young man scene that clearly (to me) represented the actor really "getting" his character (and acting). Acting takes hard work and painful feedback ... almost no one (particularly in film where its so fragmented) is a "natural" eta: I should note that we never saw the complexities of Paige's life, in fact, as was mentioned, we don't know what's she's studying or if she has any friends (ever/ anywhere) .... she was more of a placeholder or, what I call a paperdoll ... without personal resonance.

yes, biting my tongue ... it was "as if" the writers used Killer Elizabeth as a lazy crutch to keep a certain segment of the audience (likely also drawn by honey-pot Elizabeth) but it undermined (badly) the moral see-saw of the marriage and made Phillip (who knew pretty much only what Elizabeth told him) impotent. The sparring with Paige was Phillip asserting both his father/husband role in the family and his "career KGB agent" bona fides... It was his daughter whose life was endangered by her inflated belief in her mad-martial-arts-skilz .... She could too easily end up dead ... little delicate 100 pound girl like her. Pissing off Elizabeth by invading her "turf" and demonstrating Paige's vulnerabilities was secondary. We've repeatedly seen Elizabeth pull off "unbelievable' moves and murders using those hand-to-hand combat skilz but ... that's Elizabeth. eta: with folks rewatching earlier seasons, the change in focus (complexity of story arcs) is imho really obvious

and unless suppressed, the story of the warehouse burglary (in which 3 died and nothing was taken) would have been "big news" because generic petty-criminal burglars steal stuff they can convert to money ... and this company's warehouse wasn't filled with stuff like that .... just 3 dead guards and .... nothing was taken. I still shiver driving past a construction site on the freeway where a massive girder vibrated off it's mooring and crushed a family in an SUV on a Saturday morning, BECAUSE I had driven by there the prior day (everyone was amazed that this multi-ton girder (which had been in place for months waiting the site to be ready for it to be installed) could have possibly ever have moved enough to "drop" onto the roadway) I also suspect the "unsolved" TeaCup murders would have made some noise ... Shouldn't "Soviet Defectors" have piqued some interest?

,... and sad to think how much more interesting SHE would have been had she bothered to raise her head and look around her ..... oh, and maybe wonder .... (She remained so underdeveloped .... we are and were left to create her motivations largely out of whole cloth ... what a very very dull and dulled young lady)

yes, I used "situational awareness" on purpose -- gasp -- because it was a major deficit in Paige's performance that night that led to the death of a security guard ... which she -- of course -- was spared any knowledge of ... As I said then, the man knocking on her window could have been a mugger or a rapist ... her mindset was that she had not "started her shift" ... sitting alone in the car reading ... I guess Los Angeles / Santa Monica is "mean-streets" compared to Washington DC ... and that incident -- just might -- have led to some remedial education by Elizabeth about random busy-bodies and how to handle noxious and nosy police and security personnel (driving away before they knock on your window would seem like a good idea) ...