LadyChaos

YEAH!

If S9 ends up being the last season, I could see him coming back for it. As well as a lot of cameo's from old cast members. I think the question would be, if s9 is the last season or not. Rev. Tom Herewood. The actor's real name is Jack Ashton. He left the show for s8 to take care of his baby with Helen George, so she could return to work.

Any word if Jack will be back for season 9?

Tom and Trixie broke up, because she realized that once she married Tom she was at the mercy of the church and that she would likely have to give up midwifery. The argument started because she spoke up when she and Tom were hosting his 'boss' (the person in the church he would answer to and had the authority to place him else where). Trixie was unaware of the move, and was angry because Tom told her she shouldn't have spoken up against the man, and that as his wife she would be expected to go where the church told them to go. Somehow in her head, I think she just thought they would stay in East End, in their community. Their break up was in part both their faults. Tom should have made a better effort to make sure Trixie was aware of what would be expected of her, and Trixie should have been honest with Tom about how much Midwifery meant to her. As we later saw, though she loved Tom alot, ultimately it was Midwifery that gave her life meaning, worth, and helped cope with her past. The thought of being pulled away from that, and being made to be nothing more than a Curate's wife and homemaker, is what sent her out of control. The thing with Tom and Barbara started nearly 6 months later, and even in the beginning they kept it a secret because Barbara knew that Trixie still loved Tom, and though he did say it, later it became clear that Tom was still hoping to patch things up with Trixie. By the time this episode happens, its about 18 months since the break up, and Tom and Barbara were dating for a year. Since Barbara's father was a Vicor, she went into her relationship with Tom already aware of what would be expected of her if they were to marry.

I've been rewatching and just finished this episode. That scene with Trixie and Tom......this time, watching it, It felt like Tom was still holding out hope that he would be with Trixie, and that by hearing Trixie say that he would be with Barbara, he was finally accepting that he wouldn't ever be with her again...... Or maybe it just felt that way bc, according to Helen George, that was when she and Jack started to realize they were in love with each other.

Honestly, I don't think Jon made the decision to abandon his duty at the Night's Watch until he saw Turmond and Ghost waiting for him. I also think, a deciding factor was the realization that he would never see his family again, and everyone else he cared about was dead. Sansa would never leave Winterfell to see him, Bran would not be able to travel to see him, and Arya told him that she never intended to go North again, strongly hinting that she never intended to come to Westeros again. Which to me, is kind of another knife in the heart as the reason he ultimately decided to kill Dany, was Tyrion telling Jon that because Sansa and Arya knew the truth, they were a risk from Dany. He didn't kill Dany to save Westeros, he killed Dany to protect his family, and they basically abandoned him. If Grey Worm and the unsullied and Dothraki were leaving Westeros, and Winterfell was thousands of miles away, and now their Kingdom again......who could have stopped them from sheltering Jon? No one.... especially since I doubt the 6 Kingdoms would demand to go to war with the North, for 1 man, who ultimately saved their lives.

IMO, D&D sat back after s7 and said, 'What fan theories would piss the fans off most? Let's do them. What fan theories are most probable? Okay, we can't do that."

except you missed the part where the other poster also said they likely lack the means to leave. These are poor people, who often go hungry more than not. People like Davos, who as a child grew up eating a one bowl of brown a day, and pretending the lumps in it are meat....and knowing their not. People like Gendry, tradesmen like blacksmiths, are probably forced to work for the Crown creating weapons and actually are not allowed to leave. We saw what kind of people make up the bulk of KL when Margaery would walk the streets. Its people starving and barely surviving in the streets. Those kind of people can't afford to leave, they have no money or assets. They would never survive long enough to find another place to live and work. Davos only was able to leave because he became a thief and then a smuggler.

The thing is.....if you remember in s1, when Dany saved the witch that ultimately killed her unborn child and Drogo. The woman told 'You saved me? My village is burned to the ground, my temple destroyed, and I'd already been raped 3 times before you saved me. you didn't save me because there is no life left for me to live' (paraphrasing for sure)..... If you think about it. Dany saved those women, because she was disgusted by the rape, and it made her feel better to save them. Except she didn't think about what quality of life they would have after being saved. Just like with saving Drogo, she couldn't bare to live without him, and she was almost going to keep him alive in his state of undead because she wanted him with her. She 'saves' people, without considering the quality of life of it people want to live the life she is saving them for. Yes, her trek through the free cities and freeing slaves was a great thing. However in Maureen we saw the same issue. She freed the slaves......but now then they were homeless, living in tents, and fighting for food in mess tents. It was so bad that she had former slaves coming to her, asking to be allowed to return to servitude so they could have a place to sleep and eat without risk of dying. Its how the Harpies were able to gain a foothold, they were giving former slaves food and money rise against her. That wouldn't have been able to happen if she thought past freeing people, and thought more about the quality of life her people had. Then later we learned that after she freed Astapor and Yunkai, the slavers took back over because she needed to keep moving towards that throne instead of stopping for minute to see what she was leaving in her wake. Do you think the slaves in Yukai loved and appreciated her when she freed them, left them there vulnerable, and then they were re-subjugated? Even after she returned to Maureen, she handed the reins over to the Second Sons, whose leader point blank valued things like fighting pits, and who outright stated he didn't give a shit about the people. I will say this too, everyone saying that Dany used every option in her book to avoid mass slaughter of innocents, so she is justified Dracerys-ing everyone .........remember s3? When she was cunning and used covert tactics like sneaking Grewworm and Jorrah in the city so they could convince the slaves to turn on the masters and armed them? When she reeled the Masters into a trap so she could use their own slaves against them? There are other options, she just wants that throne so bad, she is not willing to wait to consider it. Cersei has had time to prepare the Red Keep for direct onslaught by land and air. So Dany needs to reach into her bag of tricks and remember how to fight when she was at the disadvantage again. She is ideally equipped to doing so to. Arya, Varys, and Tyrion probably know the Keep better than anyone, even Cersei.

A few points to add, is that I think Dany pushed for the move to take the throne because Jon refused to act as if he wasn't who he was. She wants that throne, NEEDS IT, her whole life is about that throne. If Jon can take it away from her, simply by existing, then she needs to act fast and claim it before his identify explodes into the world like the Sept of Baylor from WildFire. So Dany is thinking about that, and thinking about putting distance between her and Jon so she can distance her feelings from him. Its no small matter that Dany rode Drogon back to Dragonstone instead staying with the troops when she arrived at WinterFell by ship and with her army, next to Jon. Sansa also was hostile to her Queen, whether she wanted Dany in charge or not, she was. Danerys could have has Sansa punished for her insolence but didn't. I think Sansa knew she could get away with it because Dany wanted to make a good impression with everyone. Now, Sansa better hope that Dany dies, or at least never takes the throne because by telling Tyrion and actively trying to undermine Dany's claim to the throne, if she does end up on the throne, Dany would be justified in trying Sansa for treason.

This and she was their Queen and a foreigner. They likely were not comfortable approaching her. Jon was clearly more approachable and relatable to them.

But we're talking about Westeros not Earth. Westeros, is a very sexist and set up against women. It is more likely that in Westeros, especially Dorne where we know they are more lax in laws about legitimacy marriage and divorce, that a man can get an annulment simply because they want one and without telling his spouse. Given that their are2 eps left, I think arguing Jon's legitimacy is a waste of time. In the show, they have not shown any reason where annulments or divorces are valid to set a precedence so it is unlikely they will introduce it now. There are many cultures in the world, where men can get an annulment or divorce without justification, and sometimes they are not even required to inform their spouse so their spouse goes on living, thinking their married, without a clue.

Dany agreed to help the North, about 1 second before Jon bent the knee. She literally said she would help the North, and he followed it by bending the knee. Im my attempt to 'justify' (understand) why Jon would be such a shit dog owner as to leave Ghost without petting and talking to Ghost.......I think D&D were trying to symbolize Jon pulling away from his Stark heritage and trying to embrace his Targaeryen heritage. I also think he may feel he doesn't deserve the Stark emblem of a dire wolf, because he is a legitimate Targaeryen. I think Jon was leaving Winterfell, thinking that he likely would never come back. He thinks that he likely will either die in battle against Cersei, or marry Dany. He was raised a Stark, but targs were known for their incest, and he clearly was still feeling pretty hot and heavy towards Dany. Or if Dany takes the throne, than maybe he would take Dragonstone for his own as the only other Targaeryen alive. Either way, I think him discarding Ghost in such a way, is him feeling like he is casting off being a Stark. Though we know in reality, the reason D&D did is the CGI budget was all on the dragons.....

The problem with this, is that meeting Jon isn't what started her downfall. Before she fell in love with Jon, she already lost the GreyJoy fleet, the Dornish, the supplies and armies from High Garden, and her unsullied were dispatched to take an abandon castle where all the supplies were taken or burned so if they had stayed there they would have starved to death. She was already taking serious blows to her allies, armies, and supplies. One could argue that Queen Margery still was the one that ruined Cersei. Her marriage to Joffery, got him killed, her marriage to Tommon drove Tommen away from Cersei, the death of Joffery unknowingly by Margery's family lead to Tyrion's trail by combat that Killed Oberon that led to the retaliation of the death of Marcella. Cersei's hatred towards Margery and her attempt remove her from Tommen's life, led to her own incarceration by the faith Militant which 'cast her down' from her place and left her nearly friendless, broken, and afraid. Essentially destroying the last of her humanity. Technically, Cersei's prophecy was self- fullfilling, she created the circumstances that led to her own self-destruction. It could be that Maggie the Frog, just left out that she would rise again after being cast down. EC said she filmed at least one fake scene.....so the question is, whether she was telling the truth or not.

Personally, I think Arya loves Gendry, but she doesn't want to be a Lady of a Castle. If Gendry told her, 'I love you, I want to marry you, but you can come and go as you want. I don't want to hold you down.' She probably would have been more willing. If he had asked her, without being a Lord, where they could have traveled together, I think she would have said yes. But she will never be a Lady of a Castle.

Personally, IMO, that list of spoilers for 804-806 had some truths and a lot of crap....here's why If Dany does go on a rampage and starts killing people left and right, even if we the viewers side with Dany, the people in KL will view her as mad....even the Lords....who she will likely want to kill first. In their eyes, she is mad. So if Jon does kill her then, in the eyes of the people and the Lords, Jon is justified in killing her. So why would he need to surrender himself for her murder? She is not Queen of the Seven Kingdoms yet, no matter what she calls herself, until she conquerers the Red Keep she is not really the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. So it is not treason to kill her. If Dany and Cersei are both dead, who is going to execute Jon, who has the only legitimate claim to the throne left, outside of Gendry. If the NK is dead, which him still being alive is only rumor, why does their need to be a Nights Watch? If they reestablish the NW to stop the Wildlings, Jon would never join up to fight against them again. If Bran were going to slowly turn into the new NK bc the NK touched him, then why would they make him King of the 7K? If he is turning into the NK, and he ends up on the throne, then everything was northing and there is no bitter or sweet ending, just a huge loss. Not to mention, that if he is not turning, he still creeps everyone out. And most people will believe that it probably isn't good to have someone on the throne, who is somewhat emotionless, cold, and has no wants, desires, or needs for himself or the kingdom. Not to mention that he can never have children, so in so many years they would need to find a new King without green sight anyway. Westeros functioned for 100's of years thinking green sight didn't exist, they probably would be happy to continue doing so, or at the very least not depending on it. Didn't EC say she filmed an alternate ending her last day. What if the 'leak' is the wrong ending.

So burning millions of innocent people alive....will totally give her the vote of confidence and instill trust in her as a ruler that she is not her father.....

I think he was high off of this legimaticy. I think when he thinks later, he knows that Arya would have never accepted. Personally, I don't know if anyone ever read the Graceling series....but Arya and Gendry remind of the lead male and female. Being in love, but not getting married. Only coming together and being together in passing, but each living life on their own terms. As Varys pointed out....Jon had an issue with incest, and Dany won't share power.

I wish 1 would have happened. Yeah, I think Tyrion knows that is even a promise he cant honor, so Bronn just needs to be done. Unless Bronn says, yeah I knew you couldn't really give me High garden....I just like you too much to kill you. 3)Honestly, I think Sansa did the right thing. Everything Varys said is true. For the North to remain in the 7 kingdoms, Jon either has to be on the throne or married to Dany. I think Sansa will not stop until Jon is on the throne, or the North is free.

Jon is a horrible dog owner! Shame on him! He didn't deserve Ghost!

Im just going to say that I absolutely loved this episode! That I think everything that Varys said was right. Now that Sansa knows, she won't stop till Jon is on the throne or the North is free. So the only way for the Kingdom to remain whole is for Jon and Dany to marry, or for Jon to take the throne. I actually think they set it up nicely, not for Dany to go crazy, but to do something stupid. The problem is, that if that stupid thing is right in front of thousands of people who've known nothing of her except what Cersei said......it may inflame the 'Mad Queen' propaganda that Cersei is floating.

Do you really hate Jon that much? What are these clips and images everyone is talking about?

I mean, if the leak that Dany turns crazy is true.....I suppose Missandei getting executed would do it. Outside of Jorrah whom she just watch die, Missandei is her closest, truest friend. I'm not saying its the path I would choose......but I've said for years that I would be shocked if Missandei and Greyworm survive the series.

You mean Missendei? Because Melissandre is already dead.

You all are assuming that the spoilers are real. We don't know that they are.