LadyChaos

What if Tyrion's treason, was telling Cersei to walk out and lie about joining in the fight. Tyrion knowing this needs to be done though Cersei won't mean it, but he knows that Dany won't go north without hearing that Cersei will agree to the truce.

Anyone else think that Gendry got a little turned on by watching Arya be a badass.

I said this is what I THINK this is what the scene is about, NOT what was actually said.

Personally, I don't think that Jon was trying to be all: 'we're about to die tomorrow so I thought I should tell you Im actually the heir to the Iron throne because I'm a legit Targ' I think he was putting it off, I think he didn't want to believe it and was hoping to deny it a little longer. However, when she found him down there, looking at Lyanna's statue, he had just accepted it as truth. So, he looked at the woman he loved, and knew that she had a right to know. Not because he usurped her claim to the throne, but because she wasn't the last of her line, she wasn't alone anymore. She had family. Family is something that was always important to Jon, and Dany has told him that she is the last of her line. For him it was more of a 'We might die tomorrow so I want you to know this because I don't want to share this burden alone and I love you, AND I want you to know that you are not alone' After, she brought up about the throne, the look on his face is feels like all 'Is that all you care about?' kind of look.

If Tyrion betrays Dany.......at this point, I think it will be to save his own neck.

Also....the Little Bear better survive! ABOUT DAMN TIME!

I LOVED everything about this episode, even Sansa! A few things going forward from here: I think that Jaime will die in Brienne's arms, and say 'this is the death I always wanted' (dying in the arms of the woman he loved). I think Bran will die in the next episode. I think that Gendry and Arya will live. I've been calling them together since s2, so happy to see that Arya got some (she is 18 after all) and on her own terms. She didn't let Gendry be all 'but your a highborn lady' about it' I think that IF Tyrion does turn traitor, after this episode, it will be because he thinks it will be the only way to save his own neck. Some, thoughts where thrown about in my house, that maybe Dany might choose Sansa to be her new hand. I thought that scene between between the two of them, was very well done and showed some give and take on both sides. All and all....I loved this ep very much, and have no complaints........ so in 803, I'll likely want to rip my own heart out as I drown in my tears.

Because Jon knew that every man, woman, and child left North of the Wall, was another man in the AotD, so by saving the wilding, he was stopping the WhiteWalkers from growing his army, and added men to his army to fight the White Walkers........ but hey, yeah......its NO BIG DEAL.....

Yes, but Robb also had the benefit of 1) not physically seeing his sisters in danger right in front of his eyes. 2) knowing that while he had the Kingslayer in his hands, his sister were likely safe.

Since Melissandre also said that Gendry would be the making of Kings.....(even though I think she was referring to killing him) .....I wonder if that could still be important in the final battle.

Do you guys think that real final battle won't be about Cersei, but Jon vs Dany?

To all of you who are complaining about Jon falling into Ramsey trap, that Sansa warned him about. RE: Trying to save his brother before Ramsey put an arrow in him.... I want you to answer honestly......if you were warned that a man likes to toy with people, and you see him in front of you with your little 'baby' brother (since Rickon was like 3 the last time Jon saw him), and the man says if he makes it to you before he gets an arrow in him, he can live..........would you have stood there and let the man kill your brother? If you would have let him die without even trying to save him......so glad we're not related ....thanks.

Well....we'll never know because Sansa expects Jon to trust her implicitly, but doesn't give him the same courtesy.

Thank you! I'm so glad Im not the only one saying this. When you do team building excercises at work, and they talk about problem solver the first thing they usually tell us is: Don't complain about a problem unless you already have a way to fix it. Complaining about a problem, without a possible solution, is not helpful. Thats all Sansa does, she complains but offers not real advice that everyone doesn't already know. I honestly think she is trying to make Jon fail so that she will look good. I mean its not Jon's fault that there isn't enough food at at Winterfell to Host Dany and Co.....all the northern lords heard Jon say he was going to Dragonstone for dragon glass and allies. So she knew this was a possibility, and we all saw her telling Littlefinger about the raven Jon sent about him bending the knee. I know the show likes to bend time a bit, and we're not supposed to bring up the books, but the trek by boat from KL to Wf was roughly 6 weeks and by foot about 2-3 months. Jon sent that Raven from EastWatch. That means she roughly had 3-4 months to plan for Dany......meaning its not Jon's fault if there isn't enough food. See also also...... I have a question: How many people would really be backing and supporting Sansa, if she had not been raped and beaten? While being raped and abused is traumatic, does that excuse her behavior before and after it happened? Does that excuse her behavior with Jon?

1) we don't know that he wasn't. We are given at least two scenes showing communication back and forth. The showrunners cant be faulted for not showing us EVERY SINGLE RAVEN that goes back and forth between them. Also, Jon might have thought it not a good idea to send a stream of Ravens when, as we saw, his messages were being monitored. 2) Jon likely thought splitting up, just to sooth hurts feelings was a waste of time. This is Jon, he is basically Ned reborn, he's not going to do something just to make people feel better about themselves. 3)Why would Jon have done that when the North has given no indication that they don't believe him? It would have been a waste of time and resources. 4) Sansa and all the Northern Lords knew full well that Jon was going south for allies and dragon glass. Those allies included the possibility of DRAGONS, DOTHROKI, UNSULLIED, and the Mother of Dragons. THEY KNEW before Jon left it was a possibility of this army joining them. Jon left her in charge because he believed she was capable of preparing Winterfell for war and for their arrival. So if there isn't enough food, its Sansa's fault not Jon's. After this, he was counters with 'Didn't you also swear an oath to the crown?' One would argue that his oath to the crown, would supersede his oath as bannerman to the Tyrells. 1) What has Sansa done to show that he should listen to her? What advice has she given that was worthwhile? She used Rickon to bribe him into going to war with Ramsey, then when she realized what he was saying all along, they won't get supporters and there wasn't enough men, she wanted to wait. Wait for what? Winter was nearly there. The few supporters they had would abandon them if they waited because they had their own people to deal with. When they fought about the battle, all Sansa did was whine about him not listening to her about how he shouldn't do what Ramsey wanted him to do. He asked what they should do instead and she said 'I don't know, just not what he wants you to do.' HOW IS THAT HELPFUL or SMART? It's not, useless information. Smart would have been to tell Jon that the Vale army was a day's ride away. THEN he would have waited, because then he would have known there was another option. Because Jon didn't think there was any other option. Telling him not to do something, but offering no alternative IS NOT HELPFUL. That is what they teach everyone in problem solving 101. COMPLAINING ABOUT A PROBLEM, but offering no solution is not helpful so don't bring it up in the first place. 2) What should Jon listen to her? The last he saw her she was a whiny, rotten, spoiled brat that only referred to him as half brother or bastard. I wouldn't have listened to her either. No to mention, going forward, how has she treated him differently. Jon asked her to address her concerns with him privately so they could appear as a united front in front of others, and Sansa retorted by calling him Joffery. 3) Sansa is the Lady of Winterfell. She is the example others will follow. If she is openly hostile and questions Jon, it undermines his authority, and others will feel free to question his motives and act hostile toward him. ALL OF THIS! I think this also....I don't think people will really care all that much about them being related other than the fact that the North may not want a legit Targ as Warden of the North In fact I remember Cersei telling Tyrion that she remembered people saying that when it came to the Targ's it was a flip of the coin whether or not they would be mad and that she wonder if Joffery's insanity was her and Jaime penance for sleeping together. One last thing. Jon was King of the North......what did all of ya'll expect him to do..... "You want me to bend the knee? I'm sorry your going to have to wait for me to send a raven to the North to ask my sister and the Lord and Ladies of the North if its okay because Im not trusted to do what is right for me people." Jon was KotN, he didn't have to ask permission to do a damn thing he did. He did what he absolutely thought was necessary not just to save the North, but all of Westeros. He is not going to stop and waste time, trying to smooth hurt feelings. That is not his nature.

yes, or a counsel consisting of all the wardens with a few extra people

She was going to do just that, burn KL to the ground...... until Tyrion told her that would leave her as nothing but the Queen of Ashes.....

I think in the promo, when we see them in the Crypts, is him telling her. Something Kit Harrington said, made it sound like Jon was quick to tell her right away. It sounds like Sansa and Arya are going to be some of the last people to know before its completely outed. Which, IMO, I think Sam will out it deliberately to show people that there is another option for the throne. TBH, to give Tyrion a little credit, even Jaime believed that Cersei was telling the truth about helping the North and he knows Cersei better than anyone. Though he is blinded by his love for her.

Its not. People die in war. However, she made a big deal about breaking the wheel and being different.....but right now she is just more of the same.

I honestly think that the best option for Westeros is a counsel, not a ruler.

IDK.....all the talk about how she is more Tully than Stark, and her being Caitlyn's daughter, makes me think she'll end up in the River Lands.

Tarly's were bannerman to the Tyrells, who already forfeited rights to their lands and titles if Cersei won, Tarly was reminded that he also swore alliagience to the crown, so he was given a choice follow the Tyrells who were wanted for treason or honor his oath to the crown. Your right Cersei didn't execute Ned, her son did. Cersei was smart enough to know that throwing Ned into a cell would be enough. Joffery didn't listen to her.

I hope Jon remembers the advice he gave Theon. Jon is a Stark and a Targaeryen, he doesn't have to choose.

IDK....did you see Jon's face when Sam asked him if Dany would have bent the knee if the situation was reversed? Jon is in love with Dany, so he wants to believe she would do the right thing.....but I think he can't quite forget that Dany took his ship and weapons away from him, and refused to let him leave when he didn't initially bend the knee after she demanded it. Even though she said she would fight with the North, I think deep down, Jon wonders if she wouldn't turn on him the minute, the war was over. Dany's army would be in perfect position to destroy the North after the AotD was gone, and they would have had time to acclimate to the North. Im not saying she would, just that he might be wondering if she would have if he had not bent the knee. Jon loves Dany and he wants to believe she would do the right thing, but I think part of him doubts what kind of person she really is.

The thing is, they knew from the very beginning that was why he went. They knew it was possible that he would bend the knee to get Dragonglass and an army to defeat the white walkers. This wasn't news. Sansa openly snarled at him about it until he said he was leaving her in charge. Then it was, well in that case..... Then while he was gone, she didn't continue to support him in front of the Lord and Ladies of the North. Arya even called her on that. Now that he is back, she is back to being nasty to him in front of others. She is the Lady of Winterfell, and therefore should lead by example. If she lashes out, publicly, then others will think it is okay too. There is a difference between allowed to respectfully disagree with someone, and openly being hostile. Sansa is openly hostile and Jon called her on it, she told him he was like Joffery. She is arrogant, a bit kill crazy, and thinks it her way or no way. That doesn't make her selfish. The thing is, JON LEFT TO MAKE ALLIES with Dany. To bring dragon glass and hopefully an army. Which he stated publicly to everyone in the Great Hall. Therefore Sansa's argument is invalid, because she knew all along this was a possibility. I can agree with this. I think she knew she would have to try to get along with Sansa and as soon as Sansa slammed her down, she was like 'Alright...I got you, it'll be like that I see.' Dragons eat whatever they want....which can include you. The difference is, is that Janos swore an oath to the Night's Watch to obey the Night's Commander and broke that oath knowing that the penalty was death. Randyll Tarly swore no alliagance to Dany, so therefore committed no treason. Tarly had sworn alliagance to the crown, which is on Cersei's head. If he had not gone to battle against Dany, then it would have been treason. Dany could have listened to Tyrion, she could have done anything other then what she did. Her actions have consequences, whether she likes it or not. That day she gained new followers by the Tarly soldiers, not because they revere her, but because they fear her. Jesus, even Cersei had the sense to through Ned in prison for a few days instead of lobbing his head off right away. A few days in a cell, like Tyrion suggested, probably would have gotten him to change his tune. Gendry and Arya are 5 years apart. Right now she is 18, and he is 22. Hardly child bride material. Bonus point* as for the Auntie and Nephew bumping uglies. I don't think the masses will care. They will care that Jon is a legit Targ, but not about incest IMO. Targs were rulers for 300 years before Roberts rebellion. Even that aside. The family trees in alot of the great house, don't fork at all the branches. The Targs, Lannisters, and Baratheons intermarried so much, they might as well be one tree. Including 2 instances of Niece/Nephew Aunt/Uncle marriages.