ILoveReading

If its the Nick meat suit that is keeping Lucifer bound then I can see Lucifer's plan being trying to figure a way out of that meat suit, which would mean he'd need a new vessel.. I think Lucifer will die or get sent back to the cage in finale but Lucifer Jr. will be grow up over the hiatus to look exactly like Mark Pellegrino.

The problem is that we haven't seen Mary have anything to do with her sons since The Raid. Mick's words seem to indicate neither of them had any contact.

I don't think Dean would be all that traumatized if Lucifer did kill off Mary. She hasn't really been a factor in this his life since she got back and so far its mostly been a negative experience.

This is where I'm at. No matter how bad the writing was, I always looked forward to Jensen's performance. Regarding Dean is a good example of him elevating mediocre writing. But even Jensen can't elevate wasn't isn't there. I've been here since day one. Through all the highs and lows so its not that easy to walk away without seeing through to its conclusion. But I'm no longer watching live, and I don't miss the fact that the show isn't on this week. With what I know about the rest of the season, I don't see it improving.

I wonder if they're still going to bring in those cosmic consequences. There was a spoiler column and the answer made it sound like they hadn't come into play, at least as far as episode 19.

For the first time in the show, I cant tell if Jensen is doing it because he's bored or if he's trying to show us Dean isn't into things. It seems like the couple Dean friendly writers we had were given the memo. Bring and Glynn's last episodes were a huge let down from their previous ones. Although Glynn did write Dean bumbling around the antique shop. Asa Fox is probably my favorite writing for Dean so far this season (I credit Jensen for making 12.11 a highlight. But Yockey's next ep is

It wouldn't surprise me if they swung all the blame onto Dean, using Sam's we're done line, and showing Dean (IIRC) being the one to call Ketch. I can easily seen the dialogue saying Sam wanted to leave and Dean insist they stay even though none of Sam's actions suggest he was ever remotely done with them. Dean these last 3 episodes looks very much like someone going through the motions.

Yes, he told Mary to leave and went to meet Mary and got caught up in a hunt. At the end of that episode he approached Mick and said "You guys are changing the world, and I want to be a part of that." Sam did want to join at that point. That was what I refering to when I said I didn't agree he didn't want to join. Sam has seemed gung ho in the episodes following, moving from case to case, and embracing their lore books, toys, and showing interest in Kendricks. When I said he contacted them behind Dean's back, it was a reference to Lotus not The Raid.

I would like to see Dean get to issue and I told you so. Or even Sam telling Dean, 'Dean, you were right I should have listened to you." That would be character growth for Sam. Dean sucking up people lying to him or not listening to him isn't character growth due to the fact that we've already seen it multiple times (and the writing default. As seen by the fact that Dean wasn't allowed to call Sam out on lying to him or ask about the colt. ) Its why I enjoyed the first half of the season. Dean speaking his mind so often and calling people out on their behavior and admitting he was hurt by it. It will never happen, but since the Brits are just douche bags and not world a world ending threat, after everything goes sideways, I'd like to see Dean tell everyone he's tired of cleaning up their mess and just walk away. I'd call that character growth.

Speaking of crazy crack theories, what if Misha isn't in episode 21 and 22 but Cas is. Dagon injures his vessel so he has to possess someone else until his vessel heals.

Looks like Crowley is in the finale

I'm not really sure he doesn't have that, though. Mary was his most cherished memory from his childhood. So while he might have been thrilled to have her back its mostly been a negative experience for him. He found out everything he believed was false and she wasn't the mom he thought she was and she also rejected him. Given Dean's abandonment issues that probably had to hurt the most. This is probably just a production inconsistency, but I went back and checked the scene where Amara finds the photo. She found it chest of what looked like important things, kind of like the one we saw Sam had during Into The Mystic. It was in a frame. When Ketch found it, it was just in a drawer with cough drops and other photos. No frame. It also seems like Dean has stopped making an effort with Mary. Sam asks him if he's heard from her lately, which also means she's not keeping in touch with them. As for Sam, in The Raid when Dean told him to pick a side, I believe what Dean was really saying was "pick my side" but Sam chose Britain. Then lied to Dean for weeks about. Dean's face at the end of ep 15 didn't really covey he was thrilled. He probably knew he had to go along to keep the peace, because he knew Sam wouldn't listen to what he had to say. Sam's enthusiasm for everything BMoL's in ep 16 probably just reinforced that thinking. As for the hunt, he really doesn't have that either. I'm sure he doesn't mind being handed a case but right how he's the BMoL's lap dog along with Sam. They aren't doing anything on their own anymore and their reporting in like good little soliders. Other then John, Dean's always struck me as a leader, no a follower. So I don't see him liking working for the Brits and being at their beck and call. As for the hunts themselves he's become more of hindrance than an asset. If he doesn't get lost on the way there, he's either dropping his weapon or getting beat up by monsters he should be able to take out easily. It would be better for all at this point if he stayed home. So, in theory Dean may seem to have it all, but he really seems to have nothing at this point.

Things that would be shocking and distrubing Making Mary choose between her two sons. Dean having to make a choice and choosing some one other than Sam Dean having to kill a loved one. The bunker blowing up with everyone in it and the fate of every character left up in the air.

I'm just going to head canon he wasn't engaged in the hunt because he doesn't want to be working for the Brits. But he can't walk away because he wouldn't leave Sam out there alone. (Although Dean who seems to have lost all this skills. He's more of a hindrance than a help these day). Dean doesn't seem particular happy go lucky, or unburdened. He seems very much like some just going through the motions. ValiumDean is a good description. As I said I don't know if its Dean whose disengaged or Jensen.

I wonder if it might be Cas. He might have been tasked with killing the nephilim and his mother before the birth. That one part in the promo he looks surprised to see Sam and Dean.

I'm still wondering if Jensen's mention of the end of s1 was foreshadowing and all the main characters, Sam, Dean, Cas and Crowley are in peril. Maybe the British Men of Letters or Lucifer blows up the bunker.

Saw this on tumblr Not sure where it came from

Wasn't the waitresses name Carmen? The name of Dean's dream girl in What is and What Should Never Be Or Dean didn't survive the confrontation with Amara and he's in The Empty. If The Empty is your own personal hell, Dean getting his mom back only to have her reject him, Sam not needing him anymore, being ineffective, having to answer to someone he doesn't like would all fit things in Dean's personal hell.

Head canon accepted.

But that wouldn't explain all the eps previous to this one. He didn't have the colt when he got lost on the way to hunts or wandered aimlessly in the woods or got taken down easily by a werewolf. I don't Dean's held his own in an episode since 11. He's was a better hunter with no memory. If the show is going down the downward spiral route (doubtful) they really need to move that arc forward by giving us Dean's POV. Because as it stands right now, its too subtle with none of the usual red flags to indicate Dean's mental state. I think its mostly a matter of writers not having an actual arc, emotional or physical and they're just not not sure what to do with the character.

The thing I noticed is that Cas is fighting, Sam is firing a gun and Dean.... appears to be lying on the ground. @catrox14 There was a spoiler that Cas was more powerful than he was supposed to be. I wonder if through his time in heaven Sam got promoted to arch angel.

Looking at the confrontation Mary being back isn't the result of Dean making a deal or some kind of arrangement. Amara took it upon herself. Dean didn't ask for it. He was thrown for as much as a loop as Mary was. She was as much a stranger to her sons as they were to her. We saw Sam and Dean make an effort. Mary tried for a week and then took off. As I said, I understand needing space but her efforts to stay connected were superficial like texting (which she took a week to respond. Landlines still do exist so no charger isn't an excuse). We know she went to great lengths to reconnect to her past. She even risked a border crossing to touch base with someone she hadn't seen in years. Asa would have been as much a stranger to her as Sam and Dean. A kid she barely knew, but she can put the effort in for him. Their POV's might be different but its as hard on Sam and Dean as it is on Mary. I think this is what Dean is very much pointing out. Also true. Mary told them at the end of The Foundry this is what she needed. "I just need a little time." Sam and Dean were hurt but they didn't try to stop her or guilt trip her into staying. They tried to make effort. It is true, though. Mary herself said she needed to get away to clear her head because every moment with her in the bunker reminded her of the time she lost with John and the memories of her little boys. Not sure how that is anything other than her needing space from grown Sam and Dean. This is probably the part of the speech that is the most open to interpretation. Mary seemed to think Dean was saying, cook, clean and tuck me in. But I personally think that Dean pointing out he was never a child showed he didn't have that and wasn't really asking for that. Just that Mary be their mom by being around them. Not in clingy way, but just be part of our lives way. That's my biggest issue, is that Mary didn't even try. It does seem very much like that because Mary's actions support it being like that. She would be too tired to go on hunting trips with her sons but was at the British Men of Letters beck and call. Protecting the colt and her relationship with the men of letters took priority over her sons and she was willing to let Cas die over it. She joined at the end of ep 9 (I think) so its not just a lie about the mission, she was lying to them for weeks/months. (or however long that was show wise). When she showed up it was to confess and justify her actions. The Brits had kidnapped and tortured Sam, where about to start in on Dean. They weren't nice people from the start. Even reaching out to them in The Raid seemed more about pimping the Brits and recruting them. TL:DR- I don't think Dean's speech was just about calling Mary on her "shit." I think he pointed out some hard uncomfortable truths Mary didn't want to hear.

I don't think this paints Mary in the best light. Its sending a message that if Dean doesn't adjust his behavior to Mary's standards he can't have relationship with her. That Dean has to make all the effort Its no better than the way John treated him and just reinforces Dean's self esteem issues. If he doesn't "play his part" Mary will leave. Even when he tried she still ditched him. Yes, Mary is a grown woman who doesn't need permission. If she doesn't feel connected to her sons because she doesn't know them and they're strangers I can understand that, but at this point in the season I can't feel sympathy because Mary has made no effort to get to know her children. Her showing up at the bunker was about defending her decision to work with the BMoLs. Not about her sons. Same with her reaching out, felt more like a recruitment drive. If Mary doesn't want to get to know Sam and Dean because she can't see them as her sons and can't make the leap. Again understandable because not everyone can reconnect, but then Mary owes it to her sons to be honest with them on this point and stop using her sons as an excuse for her actions and own them. "I'm working with the British Men of Letters because I want too."

Even this this was the writers attention, Sam still had focus in the first half. He wasn't a helpless victim in ep 1 and 2. He got to brag about being tortured by the devil and almost saved himself. Dean didn't end up saving Sam. Mick did. There was American Nightmare which focused heavily on Sam. In both Asa Fox and Rock never dies he played just as much a role as Dean did, and in LOTUS at least Sam got to hold the Egg. Dean, basically spun his wheels in ep 1 and 2. Mary saved him and Cas and Cas found the lead that led to Sam. Dean ended up getting himself captured. He literally disappeared in AN, and didn't factor into LOTUS much. So while there was part of the first half I liked and enjoyed, Im don't see it as focus on Dean, but more balanced between the two.

This is reminding me a lot of s2 of Dark Angel. I wasn't online a lot back then or in any fandom. I never watched Days of Our Lives or smallvile so it was also really the first time I saw Jensen. So I don't think it was just "Alec" bias when I noticed a sharp decline in focus, screen time and in Alec's character abilities. Then it came out that behind the scenes politics very much played a role in this. I think the problem is Dabb. For some reason he has zero interest in Dean as a character. I think that it dates back even further than this season. I think he was in charge most of last year, unofficially. Despite the premier focusing heavily on Dean/Amara all Dabb could talk about at comic con was Sam's visions. Not to mention no follow up with Death. Form and Void, Devil in the Details, 11.17, all followed the patter of episodes we've been seeing since 12.12. With Dean removed from majority of the action. The Dean/Amara had connection had very little development. From the sounds of it, Jensen, Jared, Mark and Misha had a say in how the finale went down, and I believe that Dabb half-assed it because of his disinterest in the Amara storyline.