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My inner horror geek default.

Because Sam and Dean are individuals and Mary's deal affected them in very different ways and Sam is capable of speaking up for himself. One of the biggest disappointments about this season is a lack of a scene that between Dean and Mary that is about Dean. He's talked to Mary about John, Sam, and technology but we haven't had a Dean/Mary scene where they focus on their relationship. When I said I wanted Dean to talk about how the deal affected him also, was mostly because of the 2nd line where he starts talking about yellow eyes. It could go either way, and I was simply expressing hope the topic of conversation stays on Dean.

Exactly. Mary just accepted the apology like it was her due. Dean did nothing wrong and and nothing he said wasn't true. Also, just wanted to say that your nicknames for Lady Toni always make me smile.

No, the end ruined the opening speech for me. What's the point of speaking your mind if your just going to take it back. We can agree to disagree on this. Which is what I said in my original post that I hope he doesn't. But it was ignored with Mary focusing on Dean's "be a mom line." and Dean later apologizing and basically saying that he was upset for her not singing hey jude and making soup. The "I never was a child" seemed to be lost on Mary. They have a good opening if that line is accurate I was just expressing hope they would take it.

No, I didn't miss that line, and its follow up line, not sure if you saw this one Dean could easily turn the conversation to what happened to Sam and Sam alone I find the show tends to gloss over things that happen to Dean, as no big deal or ignore them all together. When I say I want Dean talk about how he was effected I want him to tell Mary about he was forced to grow up over night, how he was suddenly responsible for Sam while their father became obsessed. Mary knows her deal effected Sam but she's never acknowledged that Dean suffered because of it too, and I want Dean to be able to express this. I've always wanted Dean to have that 'Sacrifice' moment where he gets to unload 30+ years of grief, pain and guilt and then not apologize for saying it.

If Dean is talking about that night, I hope its about how that deal also affected him, something Mary seems oblivious too.

Not sure if these mean anything but its Adam and David's response to the Producer Preview

Its possible Mick went back to his bosses and informed them about the werewolf cure working, and mentioned that Sam and Dean might have a point in that no all monsters should be eliminated. It's too fast but these writers usually have major pacing problems. Unless Dean and Sam stop Kelly Kline from being killed and that scene where she's saying all American Hunters must assimilate is at the end of the episode. There is one pic where it looks like Dean is sitting in the Impala. I was hoping it would be Dean checking up on Claire or following one of the Brits. They shouldn't trust that they'll leave her alone.

Sam did get the official spiel in The Raid. He got even more with a tour of the their operations and got too see first hand how they operate, and heard them flat out state their goals to get rid of all monsters, starting with Vampires. Sam and Dean never stated any terms to Mick and Co. Sam just told Mick he was in that he would work on Dean. At that point all indications are that Sam agreed with what they were doing and how they were doing it It was Dean who added if things aren't good we bail condition. No one in the BMoL's had any idea about about condition. They still don't because at the end they told Mick they were giving him another chance. From the Brits perspective the Winchesters are still following orders, where they go out on missions assigned to them by Mick's boss. Unless Mick, brings up what happened in this case to his superiors they would have no reason to think that Sam and Dean were going to bail, and that everything wasn't as before. As for US hunters, they seem to have networks where they share info and meet up and exchange stories but there is no formal organization of US hunters. They all seem to operate and hunt according to their own set of rules and moral codes. If I recall correctly, Toni talked about how they came over because they felt the American Hunters were failing on the job and they needed to take over. If they were willing to operate within Sam and Dean's rules there would have been no reason to kidnap and torture Sam.

I wonder if the Brits are going after Max and Alicia since they're a witches.

Was it definitive that it was Cas he was talking too. I saw something on Tumblr that Misha wasn't in this episode. But that could be wrong.

So the Brits are ordering the death of other Hunters for not obeying. Not sure why Dabb still thinks these are the good guys. Hopefully tearing asunder means Sam and Dean end their relationship with them

Its true there is no defining definition of what makes a monster on this show, but I think its pretty clear that the British Men of Letters define monster as the typical definition of vampire, werewolf, siren, etc. Sam isn't that naive. Even if they don't IMO, there was zero grey area with the Vampires. It was Mick's exact statement. We're going to eliminate every last one. They were eliminating by vampires, tracking nests, waiting them out and then rolling in an exterminating them all. Sam seemed okay with that otherwise he would have brought up there being good vampires. He didn't mention there was a cure for newly minted ones or talk about someone like Alex who was held as a blood slave and then turned against their will. To use your example, if there are two commanders planning a strike against a nazi bunker and one commander knows there are resistance fighters inside and says nothing and just lets the other one blow it up. Which is also why I have said repeatedly that I don't agree with Dean working for them either and why I didn't see the end of episode 15 as character growth, and why I said this... Sam and Dean giving Mick a second chance is one thing but he's still an employee of the Brits but both are still working for the them. They're overall policy hasn't changed which means there will be multiple Hannah's out there. Why bother making them get so upset about one when its going to keep happening. Threatening to quit is an empty threat at this point.

So it seems its similar to s6 when they aired episode 21 and 22 on the same night.

I'd have to disagree on the first part because there is a lot of evidence that the Brits had a sketchy moral code even before the events of this episode. In The Raid, Mick tells Sam they're planning on eliminating every last vampire in America. Mary tells Sam that they're planning a world without monsters. Sam doesn't object to this and at the end agrees to sign up. He shouldn't need a case to remind him there are good monsters out there since he's usually the one championing them. He sees a hunter being lead off in chains to be tortured and his response is "good." At this point Sam knows its not just rogue Lady Toni who torturing humans. Its something the organization seems to condone. That should be a read flag. Also Mick says they're having trouble recruiting top notch American Hunters- why? If no other hunter wants anything to do with them, its another anvil. It's like when Mary called Sam to the compound. She tells him she's not trying to recruit him. Mary might even believe that, but her action and words suggest otherwise. She continues to defend the British Men of Letters, points out their toys and gadget and takes him on a tour. In that case actions don't match words and it seems very much like she is trying to recruit Sam. As for being on the same page with morality, they're still showing contradictory view points. After The Raid Sam was impressed by what he saw (for whatever reason), and agreed to sign up. He even tells them their changing the world. Mary even tells him they're goal is a world without monsters. Sam knows that they aren't just going to stop at vampires. That eventually they're going to move on to types of monsters. He's not naive. When Sam signed up he lied to Dean about it and took away Dean's choice about working for them for weeks. He's already doing sketchy things to justify working with them. Despite the words, the actions don't match. Even after Sam says it, Mick is still part of the conversation. Sam reads the books and starts questioning Mick about their experiments. Those aren't the actions of someone who is done. Mick may have earned a 2nd chance but he's one guy. Sam or Dean can't be naive enough to think that he's going to go back and suddenly work to his bosses and start to get them to change. So in the end, despite the words their position really didn't change. Both Sam and Dean are still working for them. ETA: Or what @Myrelle said just so much more eloquently I agree with this. It would have been better the show took this route. I'm hoping Dean is still maintaining his skepticism, but if both brothers are still working for them, then at some point skepticism isn't enough. Because actions speak louder then words and if he continues to work for them, then it shows both brothers being okay with their methods

My issue with that line isn't whether or not Sam is angry its the 2nd part where he says were done. I thought the line was out of place because I knew it would be false. Because its a tv show and the current story line is the brothers working with the BMoL.s. No matter what happened this episode they weren't going to be done, so I felt it was empty words that ultimately were going to be proven false. They were. Actions speak so much louder than words and they didn't' send Mick away after the line was spoken, they continued to work with him. So "we're done" doesn't work for me when obviously they weren't and didn't seem to have an real intention of walking away. IMO, a better line would have been something along the line of "We're not just angry and you have five seconds to give us a reason why we shouldn't just leave you behind right now?"

Going by the pictures it seems that the Brits find a lead on Kelly Kline and order the Winchesters to take her out. Mick meets with Sam and Eileen (not sure if she' working for them or not) and Mick hands Sam the colt and says he's going to tag along. Probably because he got in trouble for letting Claire go. Sam, Eileen, Mick and unnamed guy find and confront Dagon over Kelly. Since we see Dean putting Kelly in the Impala I'm guessing Dagon either gets away or Sam kills her. In between we get scenes of Ketch/Mary and Lucifer/Crowley since Jared and Jensen seemed to have only filmed 3 days this ep. Dean...probably ends up driving up after the situation is under control and thanks the BMoLs for looking out for Sam since he got lost (again).

Finally fast forwarded through most of this. Have to admit Glynn disappointed me. Another promising ep ruined in the last 10 minutes. I'm not sure whats worse. Dean wondering around the corn-field and not being included or being in the action of being in the action and written just as ineffective. Dean should be able to handle a werewolf. I know they needed him alive, but the brothers should be able to handle one werewolf. I did not like Dean givng Mick another chance. Why isn't he more suspicious of him? I hope we get a throw away line that Dean checked up on Claire because how do we know that Mick didn't give Ketch an order to take her out? Or that cure even worked? Why is no one questioning that the Brits seem to be conducting experiments on monsters? Doesn't that make them no better than Crowley? Jensen did a nice job conveying Dean's discomfort with working for the Brits. (If the brothers aren't looking for their own cases, and standing around waiting to be handed them and taking everything given to them at face value than IMO, they are very much working for them, not with them.) but in the end, he caved far too quickly again. I didn't believe Sam when he said he was done. I think all the shiny toys, lore book, and hunter hogwarts are too big of an appeal to him. You can see his enthusiasm at working for these guys to the point that i dont' think the death of a werewolf would have been enough to permanently deter Sam. If not for Claire I believe he would have found another reason to give Mick another chance. It was nice to see that Dean was on to Mick the whole time, but again it was ruined in the end. Plus, I don't think Dean being written as smart and capable (although capable these days is debatable) is something that should a reason to get excited because it should be automatic. And not something that pops up now and again. Smart and/or capable Dean seems to be rare these days. Another episode that won't make my rewatch list.

I remember reading on Tumblr that Misha all but confirmed he's already signed for s13 in one of his con meet and greets. So if they kill him off, I don't see it being permanent.

This might belong more in the unpopular opinion thread but I find Sam is the far more stubborn brother once he makes up his mind. He very rarely will consider another's point of view. Ruby, going into the cage, and now the Brits this season. Sam decided they were all good ideas and wouldn't listen to anyone telling him otherwise. The problem with this if the Brits are truly as efficient as the show is trying to make them out to be, they've just basically made Sam and Dean irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and how ineffective they've actually been. Because the Brits have taken out more monsters in months then the boys have in decades. Sam and Dean are now just employees and 2nd fiddle to the almighty British Men of Letters machine. If the Brits are finding them because they are drawing attention why aren't Sam and Dean seeing dozens of newspaper articles about multiple bodies drained of blood.

Dean has also done this is the past. This isn't new. Freaks and Geeks was pretty similar to this episode, and Dean felt the same protectiveness toward Krissy and he doesn't want her to hunt, telling her she was going to her Aunts. Dean didn't just agree to keep the peace with Krissy he was willing to listen to her view point even if he didn't agree that she would stay out of hunting. He mentions this to Sam at the end of the ep that he didn't believe it was possible to get out. He will listen and back down if he thinks the other person is making a reasonable point. So again, this is Dean going by whats in front of him, and listening to Claire, just like he did Krissy, But I don't see it as character growth when he's been shown to listen in the past.

I wonder if Ketch's tattoo means something. I've seen spec for everything that he's ancient and the tattoo is keeping him alive to it being a symbol that he belongs to Supernatural's version of the League of Assassins.

I'm starting to wonder if the British Men of Letters "old men" are witches. A lot of their cures, and toys seem like they could easily be things derived from a witches spell book.

I wonder if the thing that's going to be revisted in s13 is Hunter's Hogwarts. I have this feeling that if Sam doesn't die in the cliff hanger he will probably spend Hiatus there. Its why I'm not sure I believed Sam when he said they were done. He seems to enamored of the toys, lore books, and people who share his interests, the possibility of going to Kendricks and seemingly the only way he can connect with his mom, that I don't see him giving it up because he disagreed with how they treated a werewolf.