RedHawk

"I...love...you" was nice but what I really wanted was to hear Teeter yell out as they drove away, "You take car of my bar!" Would have been great to see a shot of the pink bear sitting on her empty bunkhouse bed. If Jamie has double-cross plans he completely blew them by yelling all the secrets of the train station while she was right upstairs, or more likely listening at the top of the staircase. That said, I do think it's possible he will prove himself a Dutton and that he wants to save the ranch for his son and Tate. He did seem to believe his secretary was right, and I'd love for him not to be such an obvious fool. Still, he was an idiot to tell Beth those things with Market Equities temptress within earshot. That was all I could think of even while I was trying to enjoy the look on Beth's face when she understood what he was telling her about her precious father.

I've never heard that phrase before but I took it to indicate that Agnes and all the society people knew that despite Nathan's character (McAllister) being married, he was not "interested" in women (gay) so their reputations around him could not be compromised.

Oh I think she had a reason. I think she was paid to do it. I think the hotshot lawyers from out of town have done their research and found Beth's weak spots.

I'm assuming that Governor Dutton can now issue a pardon and release her from prison, although I thought she was convicted of a federal crime. (Really didn't care so wasn't paying much attention to her story.) If it requires a Presidential pardon, likely he'll make a call to Senator Lynelle who will call the President and it will happen in days. She's getting out of prison for sure and I hate that Lynelle will likely disappear off in Washington. Her relationship with John Dutton was much more interesting to me than his with Piper Perabo's wishy-washy character (ok, Googled and oh yeah, her name is Summer -- LOL). I don't expect this season to change my mind about her. Hoping Beth will take her out quickly. Maybe take along Monica for a double drop at the train station.

My first thought was that the secret site would be another colony established by Moclan men who found themselves attracted to Moclan women, and in a type of bride stealing, were fulfilling their desire to have Moclan wives. And some of the wives would be happy with their men. (There’s a Star Trek: The Next Generation story similar to that.) I didn’t mind the way this story unfolded though, and the torture of Topa showed us the intensity of the Moclan anti-female prejudice. Klyden really did have to overcome a lifetime of cultural conditioning as well as an induced self-hatred and shame that Bortus would not feel nor easily understand. I really hope we see more of Klyden’s evolving feelings and connection to his daughter.

I liked your whole post but this summed up my feelings perfectly. I really miss the S1 and S2 versions of this show. S3 has been tedious, bludgeoning me with Messages, and although the look is impressive I’m personally not a fan of extended space battles. I always thought the look of the show was impressive, so not sure if spending further millions was necessary. I was pleasantly surprised and engaged in S1 when episodes would get dramatic and serious, and that is what hooked me. Now it’s all serious with tiny bits of comedy, and I struggle through most episodes. Like the atom bomb, it would be a good deterrant. The Union would rather make peace than war, so Ed forced the Kaylons to sit down and listen to the message: “Our intention was never to destroy YOU. You attacked us unprovoked. So if you don’t cease hostilities, we WILL destroy you.” It’s the better way forward, to give the Kaylons a chance at peaceful coexistence. The plot holes however, argh! And the overall editing/pacing this season has been bad. The episodes run longer so yay more story BUT then they drag. One example was a shot of boots walking through a corridor, the buildup to the reveal that Admiral Ted Danson was on the Krill ship, having brought the weapon. A shot of boots that went on many seconds too long. Seconds really do matter. It did not build tension, was just tedious. I’ve noticed several times over several episodes that shots took too long and told us nothing.

The way Lazlo called out, "Room at the back!" was hilarious. I got the reference but didn't think about there being two "back" options. ;-) Toddler Colin Robinson is a great mix of creepy and cute. That curly blond mop! I also think there's something behind the wall. Maybe Lazlo put the old Colin body inside it, a la "Fall of the House of Usher". I'm betting the "Flip You" guys will find it when (as I'm sure they will) they come to fix the house. Speaking of household maintenance, where's Seanie? Surely he'd have had a word with Lazlo about the state of the yard and the house, like, property values and all. The Nadja doll slays me! She pops in with droll lines at perfect moments. I love how her hair mirrors Nadja's. That swan dive was awesomely graceful. I rewound it three times. The special effects are always fun, cheers to that team. The Count Chocula was just another of the little touches that make this show wonderful and often worth several rewatches.

When I mentioned that Gordon could have stopped by sickbay to visit Topa, I wasn't suggesting the beginning of a romantic relationship but that Gordon would show her he cares about her (in a brotherly way) and ease her embarrassment at being "turned down" when she made her feelings for him known.

I was telling Bortus and Kelly to close the door and lock the shuttle craft! They just left the door open. I hoped after the tense meetup with the Mocclans Bortus would reach and "click" it shut with some sort of remote, and stare right in their faces. Season 1 and 2 Orville would have had him do that. Of course Kelly fell trying to jump the ravine. She didn't get a run-and-go! She backed up like only a foot and a half and then jumped for it. I'm glad Klyden is back but still waiting for him to finally tell his daughter he was also born female. There's hope to see his character evolve more now that he's accepted her. Here for it. Topa is a "child" but she seems more mature (and apparently ages faster) than a typical Earth child, so she seems more like an older teenager. I would have preferred to see her return to the Orville and become part of the female Mocclan "underground railroad" for an episode or two. Gordon could have stopped by the sick bay and visited Topa as she was recovering, to round out that little plotline. Will she ever know that he stood up against the male Mocclans? Yes, while it's too soon for him to believably choose to reverse his sex change, I also feel like might happen eventually. In earlier seasons he was at times portrayed as the more "feminine" of the two, so maybe we can see him explore what "male" and "female" truly mean to him. I want the show to continue with this family's story. I also won't be surprised if Bortus finds himself attracted to Kelly, and she to him.

I think that Beth became promiscuous after the abortion when she stopped having sex with Rip. My feeling is that back in those days (~25 years ago) the Duttons were powerful and threw their weight around, but they weren't yet known as thugs.

Here to do some speculating about Season 5 (coming in November) if anyone wants to join me. I hope there will be a matchup between Summer and Governor Lynelle. In an earlier season Lynelle remarked to, I think it was the previous Attorney General, that some way she was handling things was how she "controlled" John. I do think she has more of a strong hand than he thinks she does. How will she react when she sees what I assume will be some relationship developing between John and Summer? Lynelle and John have clearly had a casual thing they both enjoy for a few years now, and they like and I guess respect each other. Lynelle is closer to John's age, maybe in her mid 50s, and knows a lot about his good and bad sides. Summer is basically wide-eyed and clueless. I'm not interested in her character and prefer that she serve several years in a prison in a faraway state, but I don't think that's Sheridan's plan. If he were good at writing women characters, and he is not, he would flesh out Lynelle and let us see her machinations that John is unaware of. And please, don't let the relationship between John and Summer turn into her having John do yoga and eat salad with fruit in it. Although, there's the potential for glorious comedy in a dinner table conversation between Beth and a Summer who thinks she belongs under John's roof and at his table. Oh please, show, let Beth get crossed a few times in S5 and not have a way to retaliate.

"If you've got nothing good to say, come sit by me!" ;-) I just finished Season 4. I could criticize discuss all day. The woman in Beth's office who stupidly opened the mystery box, even when Beth was telling her to stop? When the bomb exploded we got a shot from outside of cars colliding, saw smoke and debris through the windshield of a car interior, then there was a thump and her body landed on the car hood!

It's like Lee's death threw the family even more out of balance and look where we are now. Jaime was probably afraid to bury him on the property because he'd haunt him. Can't believe Jaime doesn't have nightmares about murdering the reporter. I guess he really is a cold-hearted killer, glad he took bio-dad out. And speaking of, what Beth doesn't know is getting convoluted and causing complications that aren't necessary. Like, she thought the prisoner was saying Jaime ordered the hit, right? She never learned that it was Jaime's dad until Jaime told her. But John knew (I think), and could have shared that with her. Also, Beth doesn't know about the murdered reporter but John does, so actually John already owned Jaime. But -- Jaime knows where the so many bodies have been tossed. He could get an immunity deal for killing his father (the guy murdered his mother and Jaime could claim bio dad threatened his girlfriend and child) then turn over Rip and John for all the murders, and watch Beth cry about it with a smirk of satisfaction. (I keeping having this image of a crane hauling up half-decomposed bodies and skeletons.) I did like that John wanted Jaime to still be alive, and admitted that he loved him. I think Beth's remark to Silver Hair about the 1st Amendment referred to freedom of the press and that the reporter she contacted would not reveal her as his source. I can't believe Rip lets the bunnies continue visiting. That's just not who he is. John said get rid of them and Rip threw them out. Teeter got her job back but there is no reason the barrel racers should be "visiting"! Stupid and pointless writing. Yes, Mia stuck with Jimmy throughout his rehab but she also goaded him into breaking his promise to John and getting hurt again! Then she gave him an ultimatum and he took her at her word. Why was she even sticking around after being told to leave! She had no idea when or if he would return. She deserved to bawl over him. I also was looking forward to more of the Rainwater and John Dutton teamup and it basically went nowhere. The both want to control the land, and they should find a way to fight together. Kayce and Tate are the natural bridge between the cultures. The one way this show can redeem itself for me is for clever Harvard lawyer Jaime to get ruthless, unleash the killer mentality within himself, and finally push Beth to the wall. I'd love to see her show fear and have no comeback. I agree that it's some sort of church paperwork not a legally valid marriage because Rip made it clear that he is a non-person. So yeah, how does he drive legally, which he does all the time. When he and John were the big heroes in the diner, it occurred to me that somehow his lack of legal identity would come out but nah, show won't go there. When the judge read out that list of Summer's 47 previous counts I wanted John to get up and walk out of the courthouse. Why is he so stuck on her? Well, yeah, I know. Also, he said to Lynelle in a previous season "I'm 63", so likely 65 at least by the end of S4, not in his 70s. Beth is younger than Lee, who was said to be 38 in S1 (or maybe that as Jaime), so she's now supposed to be ~40 but yeah, heavy drinking and smoking will put The Age on you. YES! She withheld that info and made it seem like Jaime ordered the hits but from the diner meetup between Randall and John, it seemed John already knew it was Randall??? Or did he just realize Jaime had found Randall and taken up with him. Still confused about that. Yikes. I get that Rip had only one thing to give her, and he loved his mamma, and maybe the ring symbolized when his parents loved each other but I won't buy a ring in estate jewelry sale because I feel like I don't know the backstory, whether is was happy or sad. If Rip told her he dug his mother up to retrieve it, Beth would probably laugh, toss back her drink, and say "Bravo, baby". I can swallow a lot to keep enjoying this show, but I just can't with the hysterectomy story. The forced sterilization of Native American women really did happen, and Sheridan wanted to put it in there, but I doubt it went beyond tying their tubes. I do think Jaime was angry at Beth for getting pregnant and didn't care if she couldn't have children in the future, but she went to him to help her get an abortion. Did Beth fill out any paperwork using her real name? I have wondered if the woman at the clinic knew they were brother and sister or if she thought "Jaime Dutton of The Yellowstone" got some girl pregnant and wanted to keep it quiet. Even more reason to tell the pregnant girl what was going to happen.

Rip was enjoying that card game so much, and even called Carter "son". It was an offhand thing, but sounded a lot better than "boy". I liked that we're not sure if John was wrong about Riggins and the motive for the attack and truly hadn't (yet) realized that Randall was the top player or if he just was throwing Beth off the scent. I'm sure it will fall into place now. But the scene in the diner was indeed confusing because it's not clear who called who to come to that meeting. I think he did lie to Beth, and Beth is keeping some of her cards hidden from him, so look what happened. If both laid all their cards on the table they could strategize together. Another interesting ambiguity. It was hard to tell if he was annoyed with Beth not sharing her pain with him, or if he understood she needed space. With his intense dislike of Walker in the mix, plus knowledge that Beth screwed Walker (I think Rip knew), I'm leaning toward Rip being none too happy about their little convo. When John made a remark about his men wearing the brand I wanted Beth to point to her facial scar and then her burned back and say, "I wear your brand, too, daddy!" Not happy that John saving Summer from 30 years (?!) in prison will likely set them up as a couple. I hoped to see Summer as a smart and intriguing partner to Beth (because they both want to preserve the land), not an annoying, 20-years-too-young sex partner for John. I guess in his case opposites attract. Ugh. I thought the same thing, what if it storms? But Kayce is a Navy Seal so I guess he'll survive.

That whole scene was gold, best of the season (so far) for me. Beth's dinnertime behavior has been outrageous for so long. John has just given up and waits for her to stomp off so he can finish his meal in peace. Turns out every time she was just begging not to have to sit at THAT table. Good for Rip for always calling her out and also always being honest when he doesn't know the meaning of a word or understand what she is saying. And she never makes him feel less for it. John gave Carter permission to eat the cake with the steak but he didn't mean on top of it! There were plenty of clean plates within reach. John also looked disgusted but chose not to say anything because he suggested it. ;-) Let the boy enjoy his fine first meal in the big house. Carter: "Are we still talking about the salad?" He really held his own in that conversation. And "Why don't you just ask her?" Carter is sharp. And plainspoken Rip: "The salad has fruit in it. I don't want that." The table has always been formally set with all the extra places, however, a proper table setting uses only the utensils that will be needed with the meal. Not serving oysters? Then there should not be oyster forks, or spoons, or whatever. My thinking is that the tableware was purchased by Evelyn who may have been "new money" so used it to show off her expensive taste without knowing the etiquette rules. Also, I'm sure she wanted to raise her children with some culture and proper table manners so they didn't act like they were raised in a bunkhouse when they went out into the world. John keeps the table set the way she did it. Beth pointing out the ridiculousness of the oyster spoons is her way of still being annoyed at her mother's over-formality and angry that John keeps Evelyn's ghost hovering over her/them. It's always intriguing to me that John drinks wine with dinner. Would like to see his wine cellar. A scene with Gator making biscuits would be the best thing ever. I want Silverhair [the character name "Caroline Warner" just doesn't stick, does it?] and her assistant Ellis to get the best of Beth for a while so we can see Beth come roaring back in some surprising, clever fashion. I hope she makes a true alliance with Summer, would be fun to see Summer evolve and show Beth she has grit and a brain, and for Beth to respect her for it.

That scene was indeed beautiful and worth watching the episode, as was John "asking" Rip to move into the big house and Rip trying to wiggle out and looking so uncomfortable thinking about banging Beth two doors away from her dad's bedroom. Carter will be happy though. Speaking of Carter, I was so glad when he said he'd take his chances with a foster home. I hate that Rip and Beth think it's ok for him to wear the same clothes day in and day out and make him sleep in the barn weeks after the incident in the clothing store. He seems to have been a decent kid stuck in horrible circumstances, not a juvenile delinquent with a long record. He acted out but apologized for it, works hard, does what he's told, and learns quickly. I'm tired of seeing the same stains on his worn-out t-shirt, which seems to be all he has, and I hope that backpack held a couple pairs of underwear and socks because it's looks like he isn't even allowed to wash his clothes since we see him sleeping in them. Withholding basic items like clean clothing is abuse. I guess he is allowed to use the bunkhouse toilet and shower because a 14-year-old is going to stink after that work. Couldn't Beth have given him a couple of clean shirts and a pair of cotton pants to sleep in at least? This continuing cruel treatment of his character in the effort to break him down and then "make him a man" is stupid and one of the many things now turning me off this show. I'd love to know more, too. The first time he appeared some episodes ago I was just glad for an answer to my question of how the heck meals magically appeared on the table. Seriously. And it was like if she insisted enough that it was "love at first sight" then he'd dump Monica that very day. Such immature thinking but I'm getting the impression that Kayce feels the attraction, too, and denies it and it will cause a crisis. I think Monica will be gone early in S5; in fact I'm hoping for it.

I can only hope something happens to Monica and Tate. I liked Tate in early seasons but now even John doesn't seem interested in him. Kayce's found his home so he can experience a week of happiness and then lose them in dramatic fashion. Maybe moving out to the dream house on the reservation (which I submit as further proof of the fan theory that they're both actually dead and Kayce sees them in some sort of PTSD hallucinations) is a way to minimize Monica and Tate being on the show. If Tate goes back to the ranch there will be a plot involving Tate the golden heir and Carter the indentured servant. I was ok with inconsistent and implausible, but some things are getting harder to overlook. The Beth-John relationship is for sure unhealthy. I found the scene in the bedroom interesting and a good one. Where until now she has mostly been the vicious defender, since he got shot she has evolved more into also being his caregiver as she sees him aging and growing tired and as he admits, lonely. That's a typical life transition as we mature and our parents age or get ill. All of his children, bio as well as adopted, are damaged and he damaged them. I liked his realization last season that he had done some terrible things "all for nothing". Could have been an interesting road ahead for John Dutton after that, if Sheridan wasn't so committed to a specific hyper-masculine no-growth narrative. In Season 2 when the Governor visits him at the ranch he says he is 63. So he's supposed to be ~65 in S4 I guess. I think she had reason! Avery was smilin' at Kayce and Kayce was smilin' right back. There was chemistry between them before, and there's chemistry between them now. Monica was standing behind him so she couldn't see Kayce's face but I think even his body language gave it away. LOL! It's already happening. I'm just now watching the series, bingeing during the heat wave, and this season, at least up to this episode, has been a major letdown. And yes, Teeter took the brand, which I've always thought then ties you pretty close to the ranch because you know secrets that could bring the whole place down. Like, Walker can't just take off and keep working on his music career in Bozeman or Helena. He knows too much, including the location of the "train station". So Rip is just going to trust Teeter to keep her mouth shut, I guess. Maybe some branded men have been allowed to leave on good terms in the past, but I don't recall seeing that. [ETA: There's Jimmy, of course, but it's not like he left and went somewhere of his own choosing.] Having just finished the episode, I imagine Laramie will take Teeter along with her on the road, at least until she can get another job. Why doesn't she just ask Walker to go with her as well? Rip saying he can't leave would sure make her suspicious. That could lead to something interesting but I doubt Sheridan thinks that way. Could come back around later.

Yes, I was also imagining that once replicators became common it would have made eating animal flesh repugnant to most humans, and over time to all. As the quotes above showed, the practice eventually was outlawed. Gordon feels anger and shame at needing to eat animal flesh to survive. I do recall an episode of TNG where Riker has acquired a few eggs on a space station and cooks them (scrambled I think) for Troi, Worf, and Geordi. IIRC for some reason only Worf enjoyed the dish.

Isaac gaining and then losing his emotions is also reminiscent of the plot of "Flowers for Algernon" a classic science fiction short story by Daniel Keyes.

I recall that he said he had to "eat animals" or "small animals" as if he were revolted, horrified, and maybe even embarrassed. So I assume that by the time of The Orville, the killing and eating of animal flesh has long been considered a disgusting action of the ancestors although some may feel it was understandable prior to the 20th century.

Kinda late on these comments but I just started watching last week and have really enjoyed it as pure escapism. So much doesn't make sense but I just sit back and take the (many) good parts. I'm at the end of S3 and Beth has at least twice in the series made clear to her father that the minute he's gone she is selling her share and moving back to Salt Lake City or wherever. She only fights so hard for the ranch because he loves it and she loves him. Jamie was salivating at the thought of his share of $500 million. He would fly off in a heartbeat, change his phone number, and never look back. Exactly. And I'm loving it. I was certain to the point of feeling dread in the pit of my stomach that Tate was going to be on that plane. There was a lot of foreshadowing and then nothing happened, so I'm thinking less that it was a fakeout and more that Sheridan changed his mind. Kinda hoped it would go there even though I love Tate and the actor who plays him does a great job.

In the headshot we saw onscreen when Jamie was looking up his bio father, young Will Patton looked just like he did when he was the villain in "Desperately Seeking Susan". I always think of him in bad guy roles. Was fun to see him pop up here.

I liked this episode more than the others so far this season, and it had some excellent acting (and singing!) on display. My main dislike was that I wish Klyden's part in the story had gone in another direction or his being born female been taken more into account. Splitting the focus between Klyden's inner struggle as well as Topa's could have made a much stronger episode. When will someone tell Topa that Klyden was also born female and underwent the surgery that he was told "fixed" something very wrong with him? I was looking for that secret to be revealed to Topa and perhaps lead to deep conversation and developments between Topa and Klyden. I also think Klyden is subconsciously "jealous" (as well as fearful, confused, stunned, ashamed) that Topa wants to reverse the surgery and live as a female. He was brainwashed by his family and society into hating females, and thus his true self. He talked of his pain on discovering he had been born "deformed", pain that's clearly unresolved and affected his behavior from the moment Topa was hatched. I understand writing Klyden the way it was done, but I thought it was somewhat heavy-handed and predictable. I hope that one day Klyden will reappear and there will be a whole story about how he sought out the female Moclans and came to understand and grow more comfortable with his suppressed self, then expresses sympathy, acceptance, and love for his child, and understand Bortus' actions and forgive him. I didn't expect all that to happen in this episode, and his actions were believable and in line with the character, but I wish we'd seen more deeply into his feelings and internal struggle. I'll miss Klyden, he and Bortus were so fun to watch as a couple.

The Orville has always made me think of The Rolling Stones logo.

Bortus' stoic response seems to have given many of us a giggle but for me the "If you pull it and it doesn't pop out right away you're doing it wrong" joke fell flat -- both times. And I hope the "Hey, will you open this jar of pickles" line -- which Ed pulled out in the last episode -- is never uttered again. It doesn't need to be a thing.