Panopticon

I also always thought Scarlett did a terrific job, kindly and thoughtfully. Plus I loved hearing about her pets and her family. Thank you, Scarlett, if you're reading. And while I'm at it-- thanks to all the contributors here for your snark and knowledge and compassion, especially during the depths of the pandemic. If we're heading toward the end of Primetimer forums, please always remember to have cows at your wedding.

I am SEVERELY grateful that this board can celebrate its reopening with Jill being a caricature of herself.

Would love to see Michelle’s reaction if one of her daughters in law had two uteruses.

lol! I had the same experience with that book: was interested in the retelling of the Greek mythological romances, was surprised by the… well, you know. It’s not well marked as far as content goes, which is a shame both for people who want that style and for people who don’t.

I thought that was a really interesting and thoughtful interview by Hilary. Honestly, it sounds to me like her decision to leave was driven in large part by the pandemic upheaval and the practical/psychological fallout from that. Which makes her not so different from huge swaths of the population across all walks of life.

I adore that episode! I watch it every Christmas. I love the moment when Daphne realizes that Martin isn't dying after all, as well as Frasier/Niles trying to teach Martin to hit the note.

Two mini-horses and counting. Good for them.

I’ve been trying to avoid pushing the new lol reaction because it’s creepy, but this pushed me over the edge.

Jill says in her book that the harps were bought with the advance from the J’slaves “Growing up Duggar” book. Which makes Jim Bob putting the harp on the invoice he served Jill extra special.

Peri has a portrait somewhere doing her aging for her. i wonder if we’ll meet adult Alice one of these years.

And Kaylee has definitely moved up the leaderboard for Jill‘s favorite child. She’s never going to be right at the top but I don’t think she’s right at the bottom anymore.

Regardless of what JD and Abbie‘s personal values may be, those are some really cute pictures.

I’m impressed, but then I’m pretty easily impressed by this kind of thing. The other day I was checking into a hotel, and three of us got into an elevator. You had to wave your card over the reader and push your floor button simultaneously. All three of us tried and failed. Finally, the first woman got it to work and she pushed her floor, my floor, and the other person‘s floor before her “validation” expired without asking either of us for a reminder. I told her how impressed I was since she probably hadn’t gone into the day thinking she was going to be playing number memory games.

And the fact that it’s not common enough knowledge that the level of pain can vary DRASTICALLY depending on where a pre-menopausal woman is in her menstrual cycle. “Oh it’s just a little discomfort, it doesn’t hurt that much.” How about a more honest “if it hurt there might be something we can do to make it not hurt so much.”

Thanksgiving is on Friday this year in my family too. I wasn’t the one who requested the change but I really appreciate it— it’s knocked the travel/work/etc. stress down several notches.

I love Bebe Neuwirth forever. I adored Lilith's comment about Frasier's show and the walk-in tub ads... because I have 70-something parents who watch reruns of OG Fraiser every night on Cozi TV, and, yes, ACCURATE. I also enjoyed Lilith's refusal to remember Alan. Honestly, this episode drove home for me how much I like Alan in general. I liked the moment where Freddy and David mirrored each other's body language as the party collapsed. Frasier's shot at Boston College felt very real. Freddy's line about working at Dunkin and the Vince Wilfork stuff felt more like trying too hard, but at least there's a real attempt to ground the show in Boston. But I just couldn't accept the premise. I never, ever, not once, through eleven years of OG Frasier, doubted that Frasier and Lilith loved each other. They even said they loved each other, quite casually! Sure, they weren't capable of being married to each other. But they had almost identical values, education, and humor. They were a united front for Freddy year in and year out, whether it was getting him into the best elementary school or letting him know he couldn't extort expensive gifts out of them by weeping about being a child of a failed marriage. I laughed quite a lot considering that I can't really say I liked the episode because I can't wrap my mind around Freddy not wanting his parents in the same room because they snark at each other.

I love this episode just for the duck boat bumping along in the opening skyline title screen. I giggled a lot and replayed it.

Lol! I wish she’d go with Frasier since the (fictional) Frasier who comes to mind for most people is all about higher education, social drinking, and serial monogamy. We would have so much fun snarking on a Fundie Frasier. Pour the sherry!

I loved this one. I could watch a whole season of Tendi, T’Lyn, and Mariner stuck on Orion for some reason.

After 3 1/2 years of avoiding any kind of illness, I finally managed to get Covid last month. (0/10 stars, do not recommend.) So I’ll be waiting a bit to get my booster. Hopefully by the time I’m ready the supply chain issues will have sorted themselves out at least.

I didn’t love the trailer. I think the best source material is disproportionately in the Herriot stories set pre-WWII, and I can’t think of one story featuring kids/parenthood that I especially liked. (Though his real life son’s memoir was excellent!) But this show does go its own way with its own interpretations, so hopefully I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I genuinely don’t get how those topics are remotely comparable. It’s a book about a family that operated under the rules of Gothardism and the negative fallout of that ministry. So it touched on Gothard’s behavior toward young women, how Jill was a victim of that same behavior from her brother, how Jill was used by her father to protect her brother, and how Gothard himself interacted with the family (including not “choosing” Jill and Jill later realizing how dangerous the situation was). It’s not a book about Twitter wars or gender identity, nor is it a book about Derick’s journey except as it pertains to his support of Jill and the complications that arose from having Duggars as in-laws. I get the argument that she could have left out the line about Gothard and Jana, although as I said above I do think that the line was important to Jill’s story. But I just don’t understand how Derick’s social media hijinks are as relevant to the story of Jill’s awakening as Gothard’s fixation on the Duggar sisters and the prevalence of abuse in his religion.

While poor Jana is definitely collateral damage with respect to the Gothard issue, I think that Jill-- and for that matter, Jinger-- was basically in an impossible position with respect to Gothard and his wandering hands. Jinger's book was about her religious journey away from Gothardism, which she now views as dangerous. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, thereby opening herself to criticism that she really still supports that breed of damaging religion because she's silent on the matter? Or does she mention it and bring up the old rumors about Jana? Jill's book was about the personal cost of having been part of the family that best advertised Gothardism, including the way she was sacrificed to protect her sexually abusive brother. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, which so strongly underlines her thesis, or does she mention it and bring up old rumors about Jana? Sometimes a part of a story is even more conspicuous by its absence than by its presence. If Jill's story begins "my family was a public advertisement for this disgusting man's power trip," could she fail to explain why he was disgusting? If she explained why he was disgusting, could she fail to explain whether she and her sisters-- who were the public face of the entire movement for years-- were part of Gothard's infamous group of "girls," and if not, why not? If she left that out entirely, would that give rise to even more speculation? It wouldn't be the first time. Plenty of public stories about Josh molesting four of his then-five sisters included speculation about the fifth. Why did he leave Jana alone? Was it because she was Gothard's girl? Jill didn't spill any new information. That Jana was one of Gothard's favorites was out there. That Gothard sexually abused some but not all of his favorites was out there. I agree that Jana's experience with Gothard is not Jill's story to tell. I agree that that passage in the book is not fair to Jana. I would fully understand Jana being furious with Jill over that passage. But I'm not entirely sure that Jill could have told her own story about seeing her own life as a Gothard foot soldier in a new light without that context.

Jill basically didn’t mention the majority of her siblings absent the occasional name check. The named siblings who actually *do* things in the book are limited to Josh, Jessa, and maybe Jana/Jinger/John if you squint. All adults. All portrayed positively or neutrally with the obvious exception of Josh. Jill mentioned in passing that Jenni was her buddy and she loved her. That’s it. That was public information anyway, and if it’s embarrassing to Jennifer she can lay it at her parents’ feet for making her a public figure. I don’t think the younger girls should get veto power over Jill discussing their parents’ actions honestly.

I'm surprised Jim Bob allowed that.