Temperance

The pillow is upside down.

Which fansites are these? I thought the fans were endlessly loyal. I have no real knowledge of why they turned on Jessa and Joy if true they've turned, but I would guess it has to do with Jessa's housekeeping and maybe the rumors about Joy? It's stupid to turn on Joy over rumors. They have no idea what JimBob and Michelle had paid or not. My guess is with so many kids they probably got quite a bit of help from JB's parents (Mary) or maybe even Michelle's father when he lived with them. I'm annoyed that they blame the girls for losing the way. It says a lot about their fans they're worried more about the girls turning out too wild than Josh (who freeloaded a lot of stuff during the early years of 19K&C) or Michelle and JB after Joshgate I. I know they're probably biblical christian patriarchs...

Jill is more likely to see her daughters copying her mannerisms as a) a successful result of her coaching them or b) imitation, which is the highest form of flattery.

I'm pretty sure they had three? Although the only one I've ever seen is Jeremy. He's their baby.

How far along is Jill? She looks really skinny for a pregnant lady, especially an older lady pregnant with #13. It's hard to tell how much that Christmas concert actually cost. I'm hoping it was about ten bucks or less for the two of them.

I don't see why they need to hide. It would be good for ratings and their reputations to tell the truth no matter what that is. I too think she got pregnant right after she got married, but it doesn't matter too much either way. I think lying about this would ten times worse than just admitting if anything happened, because they've lied before and it came out. I think the more they lie, the more they damage their reputation.

I think it's two people, because the shoe faces in the wrong direction from the red shirt. Then I noticed for the first time they're in a church or room of a church (probably not where the service is held). I'm sure many people are more observant and saw it says Proudly with Jesus, People help(?) Each Other, People Change the World before I noticed it.

I googled Sarah Reith. I remember she was on the Duggars show, wearing frumpy clothes and very thick eyebrows. (no judgement, just observation) Now her clothes look modern, she wears make-up and her brows are different. She looks good. According to the web, she and one of her sisters are around thirty. She has a band with her siblings (three of them all grown up). She seems to be having fun. She doesn't seem to be nannying. She and her sisters seem very independent for their beliefs, but good for them! They do seem like a country song come to life, but not necessarily a fundie one.

It makes me feel that my gut feeling/prediction is right. I tend to think as it stands that when they are old enough some of Jill R's kids will revolt and escape. Most of the other fundies we've seen have enough money that the kids worry about being able to provide for themselves in the real world. Lack of exposure to the real world and the way they've been raised will stop some of them from leaving, but I doubt it will stop all of them.

Her journaling is a long passage from a song, and a bible verse. She cites them correctly. These are quotes not her words. I have to admit I have kept quotes I like to inspire me around. I've even had a therapist or two recommend it. I'm not sure I would journal it though for the whole internet to see. Death was Arrested is too religious for my taste, but it has a modern pop/country sound and it sound okay. (Googled it so I could hear it.) I don't remember the rules Duggars had about music, but it has drums (starts without the drums but builds to the drums) and I seem to recall them not listening to music with drums, so there's that.

Good Strategy! Show a picture of Derick that is him, but looks nothing like he does now.

A friend of mine was a nanny in a nanny service who was told to wrap presents (that was fine there was one kid and this was while she was doing homework or what not). Anyway the lady went through nannies like toliet paper so she decided she and my friend were a bad fit. One of her complaints about the friend was the way she used tape to wrap gifts. I forget if the mother thought she used too much or too little, but probably she if told her how much to use friend would have used that much. My friend's friends think she wraps gift fine. Jill and Derick seem like last minute gifters to me so I'm surprised to see all those presents under the tree.

No they haven't issued a statement yet. I have also wondered about that. I now think that there is no new courtship for the new season of counting on and they are encouraging speculation to drive interest in the family. I have noticed the speculation is running rampant and they are selling to story to a lot of people who may not care about the family too much. There seems to be more press and interest for this than for anything else during the last year.

Chad was 26 1/2 and he is four years older than Erin. He is currently 30 and she is 26. John is five years older than Alyssa. John was 24 when they got married and she was 19. You are right about the increased pressure for young women/girls to get married younger than their brothers, but it's something I don't like about fundies.

@Churchhoney Thank you! I didn't know that Gothard didn't have his own churches. Or his movement was spread out like that. I assumed that people who followed Gothard, went to churches where everyone followed Gothard and talked about it openly/ the church was overtly connected to IBLP. Excuse my ignorance.

Lawson is 25. It seems unfair (to say the least) that he gets to continue to explore his options while his sisters are courting as teens, with some expectation that these courtships will lead to marriage then to babies.

Except this church is a Baptist church. It's not a Gothard/IBLP church.

I can't see TLC filming for many reasons. The most likely way I could see this footage making it to TLC is if somebody found someone to court and started courting. Even then most likely JB or Michelle or one of the kids would film it and sell to TLC. But on the other hand they would to be sure this courtship was going to pan out. I have never heard of the other speakers. Since they live in faraway states, it's probable the Duggars don't know 'em either. One of them (Texas) is a young associate pastor and I was able to google his church. I notice his church's website doesn't mention Gothard or IBLP for that matter. Is this normal? One more weird thing usually your biggest speaker/s goes last at conference, but it appears the Duggars go first.

Agreed, @BitterApple except Kelly Bates and JB Duggar have both hit a snag when it comes to marrying off their boys. Kelly has six girls courting or married, but only one son married with three others in their twenties. I don't get the sense Kelly is chill at all. I think she will be in full fledged panic/pressure mode if anyone was to tell her they were going to stop having kids.

Recent events in Alabama make me question how much "fundie lite" would be an improvement.

No one's ever been sure he did see her. Or really notice her. She was across his street mowing the lawn in her bikini, and he got divorced but it seems unlikely those two things are connected. He doesn't seem to have acknowledged her at all. Or that's always been left out of the story.

They've exhausted the American dating pool and want to see if they can find mates for the lonely Js downunder.

They cherry-pick the Old Testament, except they didn't pick what they believe Bill Gothard did. A lot of things like the pork come down to Because Jesus And Gothard. Gothard didn't like pork because he ripped Orthadox Judaism and meat is expensive to feed 20 people.

Nevermind.

I agree with you about Jinger and the bikini. I think Michelle wasn't particularly jealous now that she is in her fifties and was plenty fertile at Jill's age. I hope that's true. Especially considering Michelle had at least one kid and was married awhile too when she was 23 (the age Jill got married). I think Jill would have a baby right anyway if the family was more mainstream and allowed the kids more freedom. Jill had baby fever when she got married. She had that wedding shower with lots of babies present, she joked to JB before she wed she would have as many kids as he and Michelle if not more, and she was training to be a midwife etc. Jessa fell in love with motherhood after her oldest was born. I think she would have put it off longer if she could.