cereality

Another snoozefest of an episode. All I noticed about the births is how "concerned" Zach & Whit were that the daughter didn't seem interested in the new kid, didn't care to hold her. Even at home they were like -- oh you HAVE to hold her, you HAVE to help; and then Kelly shrieked with praise when the daughter held the baby. Uh no she doesn't HAVE to help -- you chose to have another kid. And she's 3, freaking relax. But you know in their minds they're thinking NOOOO you're a little girl, why don't you love BABIES, you HAVE to love babies, I mean what if this girl turns out "weird" and doesn't want marriage or babies, how will she fulfill God's will for her life??? I also laughed in a recent episode when the girls' bedroom had a sign that something like "you can do amazing things" or something that effect. Lol yep, unless that amazing thing is going to med school or law school or being an investment banker on Wall Street or going away to college or traveling the world NOT on a mission trip, then nope, no amazing things for you -- we mean wife + mommy amazing things. As for Trace -- I have NO idea why he is looking to get married, unless he just fears being an "old maid" like Law and Nathan + he knows that most fundie guys (including his college buddies) marry by 23-24 and he doesn't want to be left behind and the only virgin left in his friend group. I mean all of his brothers in law came into the family at ages 22-25, but almost all were 22-23ish with only Brandon being "older" at 25. As a 23 yr old, he may be feeling the pressure to get this done in the next 12-18 mos. But he seems to have NO interest -- not only in Chaney but also in a gf generally. I mean he actually said -- we are long distance so we talk on the phone but when you get together you HAVE TO actually go DO STUFF to take the relationship to the next level and you HAVE TO come up with stuff to do whereas with the guys, I can just go play basketball. Uh if you don't WANT TO hang out with a girlfriend, maybe you just don't want a gf?? And let's be real these are fundie girls, they aren't expecting that you are wining and dining them or taking them skydiving every weekend!? You basically just have to hang out. I mean Kelton & Josie seemed like they mostly hung out in coffee shops; Z&W at Sonic -- i.e. TALKED. Though that may prove to be a problem for him as he seems to have nothing to say to her. I mean did he need to tell her that Z&W came up with the idea of how to ask her to court?? You hardly know her and your lack of interest is obvious to her, let your romantic action appear your own for right now even if it wasn't. It was like when Zach was courting that first girl (Sarah?) and when it broke up he said -- he was so uncomfortable even sitting next to her on the couch, didn't even know what to talk to her about. Except you can tell that he WANTED a gf and wife and he was heartbroken that he didn't feel comfortable sitting with her + pissed that his parents raised him so "isolated" from normal social interaction that here was a 21 year old man who couldn't handle talking to a girl. It's different with Trace as he seems uninterested. PLUS he wasn't raised like under G&K's thumbs as child #8 as Zach was as child #1. I mean G&K have modernized more than they'll admit since that break up 10ish years ago. They can call it "get to know you" or whatever BS but Tori, Josie, Carlin, Katie, and Alyssa were all talking to their boyfriends 24-7 so this isn't one of those -- oh mommy and daddy never let them talk to members of the opposite sex. He seems like he'll end up in a Brandon kind of marriage -- check the box on wife and kids. Except that works for Brandon bc he's just that kind of personality. He DOES love Michael, he just isn't a super expressive person on anything; Trace OTOH can be super expressive about hanging out with his buddies but just not with a gf.

That's the thing -- how many different ways do they want it? Literally 2 weekends ago they were posting teary videos re Layla's heart condition, how scary it was, how they were too emotional to even talk about the cardiologist visit. Ok great -- you're scared young parents (I'm not judging that -- anybody would be scared). Not 2 weeks later, vacation time mid pandemic!! I know views on this pandemic vary a lot and lots of people are saying -- once my state opens, that's it I'm not sitting home, masks unnecessary, it's just a fever. Fine but even the most -- eh this is NBD person -- will agree that if you're elderly or have health conditions, YOU have to protect yourself still even as places open up bc covid is still out there. So let's take a 3-4 month old with a newly diagnosed heart condition on vacation because OMG it's our anniversary, we can't NOT celebrate. I don't have kids but I think once there's kids parents sacrifice a lot and sometimes that means NOT going away if it isn't safe for your kid and your anniversary might just be a grocery store cake and small gift, if that. And who are their leg humpers -- other fundies? Huge fans? Bc someone DARED mention on Carlin's IG about social distancing and people JUMPED down that person's throat being like -- OMG go hide in your basement, don't you know they fly by PRIVATE PLANE. LOL people are SOOOO impressed by private planes, making it sound like E&C charter their corporate jet. This plane is the size of a small sedan so the baby is smooshed in there with her 2 uncles who BTW have NOT been social distancing. They used the whole lockdown time getting flight hours, so they were landing at various airports, having some interactions with people at hangars and airports and since Tenn. reopened, Law has definitely been posting videos of going to convenient stores etc. I mean this kid is JUST out of the newborn 3 mo window, where you don't even want them catching a cold bc it leads to a lot of testing; plus the heart issue!? But by all means let's go to a cabin who knows where and who knows how far from civilization because don't you know we got MARRIED LAST YEAR!?!? TBH they should have left her with Michael & Brandon. From what I can tell, they ARE distancing (including NOT inviting Law in for dinner one night but leaving him some dinner out on the porch), both working and studying from home, and just generally seem less stupid than anyone else in the family. She would've been in excellent, careful hands esp given her recent diagnosis and if you had said -- don't take her out not even to hang at the parents house or have Chad/Erin's kids breathing all over her -- they would've listened. And then the two idiot parents could have gone away, had sex 24-7, and most importantly gathered content for next week's YouTube video. They've been SUPER quiet on IG since posting that flight pic saying, guess where; you know it's to drum up "suspense" so that in their next video it can be -- let us show your our vacation and their salivating leghumpers will log in to watch.

Nathan is the pilot, Law is in training though I guess he’s fine now bc he’s posting some new song on IG 24-7 and he was on the flight. Carlin and Evan are just ME ME ME. I mean last week they lamented about having to put off a 1st anniversary trip. Lol turns out they were lamenting putting it off for a whole FOUR days. The horrors. I guess they don’t realize in the real world with jobs often milestone trips don’t go on the actual milestone date and can be weeks or months later as people just don’t drop everything to celebrate themselves. Hope they enjoy their secluded cabin where they say they’ll cook for themselves. Sounds fun — not. Why not stay home in your cabin size home and cook there. Evan does talk about monetary pressure a lot but from the social media whores I know IRL who “vacation” a ton to give you the impression of a fabulous life, it’s cheap vacations that often aren’t what they seem. Bet they’re going away for 2-3 nights to the cheapest cabin they can afford and bet they even picked where they’re going based on cheap accommodations. They’ll just spend the whole time taking IG pics in “cute” ways to make the vacation look bigger than it was. Should’ve saved your money Evan, perish the thought had you waited another 6 mos or yr, you could be post pandemic and having a real vacation not a — well I have to SHOW ppl we went somewhere — vacation.

There are def boys who around 10-12 yrs old DO play 4 sports -- basically one a season. Sports ARE their social circle and where they hang out with other guys. It's possible he has friends from those teams and they hang out etc but IDK if that kind of thing would be shown on TM depending on those other parents. But let's hope Bentley is doing this because HE wants to not bc Mommy wants him to. She has the lethal combo of too much time on her hands + too much money. He expresses interest in or does marginally well at any sport and she's got him playing on multiple club teams and private coaching. I mean even after that session w that college wrestler when he said he was hungry and she told him to get a salad and got annoyed that he wanted chicken, she goes -- well maybe you should stop you have 2 more hrs of club practice later!? And there's been other episodes where Ryan has complained that it was ridiculous that Bentley couldn't come on a vacation with his parents -- not that R has any room to complain father of the yr that he is -- bc he had like 5 baseball games in a weekend bc he plays on multiple club teams. I mean maybe this kid wants to play sports for fun -- not be a mini professional athlete bc that's what mama wants. As for glory days -- I mean yeah they were cut short by getting pregnant at 16. But I believe she was an A student, popular, cheerleader and by looks of her parents' home, looks like she comes from a relatively well to do family so of course it was expected she'd go to college. And then she ends up with a GED, IDK if she ever even finished college but was there for like 6 yrs part time . . . . So now she NEEDS Bentley to turn out to be what she considers a perfect teen -- private school, straight As, captain of multiple sports teams, and probably expects a D1 college scholarship. She's going to be crushed if he turns 14-15 and decides he isn't interested/is burnt out from practices and games every day of his life starting in like 2nd grade and drops all the sports or drops down to one sport and isn't dying to be the school jock/team captain type that all the cheerleaders are swooning after.

Maci totally came across like a girl trying to relive her HS glory days. I mean she was a cheerleader, she wants her boy to be the popular state champ except Maci -- high school was 11 yrs ago and your son is FREAKING 11. I grew up with a lot of wrestlers and when they are that young, they do NOT cut weight -- they wrestle at whatever their natural weight is, often that means they're in a different weight class is back to back tournaments bc as they are putting on height, it is not at all unusual to gain 5 lbs in 2 weeks. It looked like Bentley was struggling a bit to stay at 75, great then he wrestles in 76-80. But obsessive parents like Maci -- who hire private coaches for their freaking 11 yr old -- always try to influence the kid into a different weight class bc there's likely a few more competitive kids in 76-80 and he's more likely to win in 70-75 also bc he'd be on of the heavier kids in 70-75 but maybe the lightest kid at 76-80. Ryan was right -- though he gets no say since he barely is a dad anyway -- this isn't for a college scholarship, get a grip and don't stunt the kid's growth so you can make him 5th grade state champ. I fear this continues bc the reason he wanted to go to that private school is bc of a top wrestling program. Now I'm sure it's a good school with good coaches who realize they're dealing with adolscent boys who need to grow BUT I fear it'll be Maci second guessing the coaches and telling Bentley -- nope doesn't matter what the coach says, you have to wrestle in X weight class bc the class above you is way too competitive, you want to repeat as state champ, don't you?? She's reliving her glory days. Wants him winning districts and states thru middle school bc that'll catch the eye of HS coaches as they keep an eye on who is coming up thru the ranks, which increases his chances of being varsity in HS blah blah . . . . And I'm sorry but what do Maci and Taylor even do all day besides folding t shirts for their co and collecting MTV checks? Benefit of the doubt if this is REALLY about eating clean and being healthy, then freaking COOK for him. I mean you yell at an 11 yr old for getting himself a muffin and chocolate milk for breakfast -- so why weren't you making him scrambled eggs and toast so he'd get some protein in? I mean Taylor even said he had no energy during the match but pulled it out -- uh it's bc you're restricting his food + not feeding him other healthy alternatives??

"When she was younger, I often wondered and imagined what kind of personality her future husband would be like." HAHAHAH. Translation = we knew she was loud and obnoxious and she wouldn't tone it down no matter what we tried, so Gil and I fretted and lost a lot of sleep and prayed a lot about what man would marry a girl who can't freaking shut up, is loud, must be the center of attention, and is dumb. In a cult where women are supposed to be the quiet followers . . . . Thankfully loud obnoxious Evan came along and it was a match made in heaven. You know G&K had to be freaking out when Carlin was trying to seal the deal around 18 and someone broke up with her. They really must've been thinking OMG no one will marry such an obnoxious girl . . . . I know I shouldn't but I do feel sad for them. The wedding and the first baby are REALLY the only time they get attention in that family. Which means by 22 the two biggest days in her life were behind her. I mean obviously as you get older there are fewer "big days" and not very much is as big as a wedding for those who've had one. But still in life there are graduations and promotions and raises and random holiday parties and BBQs that are still fun and feel good. For these two -- not so much. Once she became Evan's problem + gave them at least one grandkid, that's it G&K moved on. Must be hard for anyone but especially for two attention whores. I guess that's where social media and the weekly video about their scintillating lives fills the void.

They kept referring to it as a staycation so I assumed that's what it really was. That they punted the girls to one of his 5 siblings or his parents who all live on the same street, bought a bunch of cheez its and that was their weekend. But then after a while it occurred to me that the house they were in looked much nicer than their house; at one point they were eating takeout in a formal dining room -- which they don't have in their own house. So it looks like they got an AirBnB. They may have stayed in Orlando/their own local area but just rented a bigger house uncluttered with kids toys. They did go out for dinner one night -- seated indoors in a restaurant booth which made me cringe esp given Alyssa's recent heart surgery; even despite the fact that it was successful, she HAS had 2 heart surgeries + has some other more treatable heart rhythm issue that she told her parents about. But aside from that it did seem like they avoided being around people. Looked like daily bike rides and cheesecake factory takeout. I wonder if they went out to dinner that first night and then got a bit weirded out/nervous being in a restaurant and decided they'd spend the rest of the 2 days at home.

They "sexualize" - for lack of a better word - these little kid relationships in a way that isn't necessary. A kid can spend time with either parent. A girl can hang out with dad doing whatever and it's normal -- it can be anything from washing the car to catching fly balls to working on a project or schoolwork. But nooo for them, a dad can only hang out with a girl if it's something date-like like a tea party or out to dinner. I mean John takes the girls out on "dates" wearing a full suit and bringing them a corsage/flowers as they wear their best dress. It's pretty much prepping them to catch a guy in 12ish yrs. After all they will know how to act on a date at a Cheesecake Factory and how to make vapid conversation and respond to - you're so pretty - bc daddy taught them. Gag. Chad went on about how the 4 yr old boy is the MAN of the house when dad isn't home?? Uh? He's 4. God forbid lazy Erin step up and be the PARENT when Chad isn't around.

It's been such a snoozefest that I haven't watched recently but then caught 2 episodes back to back. A few thoughts -- Glad to see gender roles are live and well even in the next gen. I mean Bobby said he hopes he has a daughter one day and I thought -- wow how sweet and unlike their cult. And then he follows it up with -- because daddy daughter dates. And then cue Evan talking about how he looks forward to tea parties and make up/nails/hair. Uh -- I guess it'd shock these people to realize that there are some girls who never play dolls or dress up or tea party because from day one they are all about matchbox cars or construction equipment or whatever. Though if that happened, you know they'd outwardly say it's ok until the girl was age 4 or so and laugh it off as "tomboy" while internally being ridiculously worried bc OMG what if legos turn her lesbian. And then by age 4-5 it would be -- oh sorry the legos/cars/bouncing off the walls are for your brothers, why don't you be a good girl and help mommy with dinner? I believe that's what the Duggars did with Joy Anna who was into outdoor play with the brothers rather than chopping vegetables with her sisters and they forced her over into what was "appropriate" for a 10 yr old girl. And how disgusting that Zach was pouring the hot chocolate into the actual toy teapot and they drank from the toy cups?? I don't imagine those pots and cups get washed, I imagine they reside in a toy box with all kinds of trucks and dinosaurs that Bradley "forces" his sister to play with that likely have been driven all over all the floors in the house. WTH Zach. If you want to have a "real" not pretend tea party, you can give the child an actual cup from the KITCHEN. And I realize he was trying to be sweet but Bradley gets an outing + lunch with mom and the girl (no idea of her name) gets hot chocolate from crappy tea cups at home? He really couldn't take her out anywhere?? It didn't have to be a big outing. You know a girl can even go out bowling or go karts or throw the ball around in the park and it's ok . . . it won't hurt her chances of marrying and bearing children. Brandon and Michaela looked genuinely happy at his book signing. Good for them that they have made a life for themselves and aren't sitting around 24-7 lamenting their lack of a baby. Brandon wrote this book and I believe also does animation/cartoon drawing kind of stuff and I think some photography. Michaela has started her sewing business just for/by herself not as something that's shared with 37 other family members. They seem like they have created a nice life for themselves, though I'm sure Kelly and the sisters don't think so bc OMG -- no baby, I guess they HAVE to do writing and sewing to keep themselves from crying in their coffee 24-7 bc did I mention, no baby??

These 2 have been gushing about their upcoming anniversary on IG and now a 20 min video?? They are just SO young and so inexperienced at life. We get it, anniversaries are cool and a sentimental time. But to watch them gush and give you the behind the scenes of their wedding as they relive the best day of their lives legit makes me sad for them that they BOTH -- not just C -- talk like the wedding day is THE big day in your life and it's one day in your life and then it's over and there's nothing else and all you want to do is go back to that. Come on sure weddings are great. But lots of people have lots of fun days at graduations and traveling and countless other things where they experience LIFE, not just navel graze. Shows how little they've lived before rushing into marriage at 22 and 23. And BTW none of your behind the scenes is THAT special or different from the zillions of other people who get married yearly. You're still talking about that damn song and how nerve wracking it was -- FYI you didn't have to perform if you felt it would be nerve wracking!? They think they're so original and special when literally every person who has had a big wedding will say exactly what they said -- the day went fast; she was bawling we she gave her dad his gift; he had the biggest smile on his face all day; he's not a crier but he cried when he saw her; they didn't even get to taste the cake except for the 1 bite; they didn't eat at all and were starving and ate after the wedding . . . . E&C these are normal wedding things, even though you seem to think yours was the William & Kate wedding of the century . . . . And I especially love that the Mustang they drove away in was borrowed. They decided they couldn't afford to spend another $ and thus had no getaway car and then Carlin and Kelly run across a car show at the local mall. They approached the owners of the various cars to explain their plight until one owner decided they could borrow his car. He drove it to the venue on the day of, he keeps it pristine bc he's a collector. Cue to the shot at the very end of them eating plates of chicken + sides that Mama Bates had packed for them as they left the reception bc they hadn't eaten all day and were starving. IN THE BORROWED PRISTINE COLLECTIBLE CAR!? Nice respect . . . . You know they drove 10 min up the road to the local Marriott to get it on. They really had to eat in the car? They couldn't check in, eat in the room, and then get busy? If they couldn't wait for check in, they couldn't get to the hotel parking lot, get out and eat in the parking lot before entering the hotel??

Gil is no where near as savvy as Jim Bob. Highly doubt he's been using the 10 seasons of BUB to buy rental properties and cell phone towers that will throw off revenue long after the show is history. Part of it is that UP likely doesn't pay like TLC, but part of it is likely also that he has no clue to do these things. He prob does qualify for some social security though. He was at Nabisco until Zach was around 10=12 -- and he took the job around when Kelly got pregnant w Zach; so likely he has contributed for 10 years in his career to qualify. I assume the plan is that as soon as the show goes off the air, the adult boys living in the house will suddenly have to contribute their earnings to G&K as room and board and said room and board will basically run the home financially. If this happens in the next 1-3 years, look for Lawson, Nathan, Trace, and Jackson to rush for the exits and suddenly decide now is the time to take a wife as they'll all be ages 21-30. So then that only leaves 7 kids at home, with Warden and Isaiah being 18 and 19 so THEY will then have to contribute their earnings. Plus look for Gil to get the tree biz up and running for real when the BUB contract doesn't renew. I imagine he'll have Warden, Isaiah, and whichever married sons need income working for the business full time, as a real business that seeks customers/contracts and bringing in money but because he'll remain owner, he'll make sure to give himself enough of a cut to make sure him and Kelly can run their household. That status quo could continue for years with 7 kids and eventually Warden, Isaiah, Ellie, and Addie would all leave to get married as they're close in age -- though he'd prob make sure to keep a few boys in the tree biz bc he needs income -- but then G&K are left with just Callie, Jeb and Jud who'd only be ages 13-15 by the time Warden was 21 so they'd be home for a while longer. But for people who've ran such a huge household on a budget for decades, 2 parents + 3 kids is nothing financially esp with Gil getting a % of the tree income that'll be brought in by the married off sons.

Kelly and Erin and even Tori/Josie do talk about Michael and her lack of kids as very much of a “yeah good luck with that” type of attitude. Alyssa to me always seems attitude-y as well but apparently she isn’t because she has called Michael in advance of her pregnancies to tell her so that she has time to process her thoughts/isn’t made to feel bad in front of everyone etc. I think they bent over backwards for Erin because she’s Kelly’s favorite daughter + she WAS actually getting pregnant but just kept losing the baby so they knew that’d be fixed. Given that Michael can’t get pregnant and they can’t figure why, you know Kelly/Erin just respect her less as a woman. Yet they “encourage” her to stay involved with the family they love having someone to pawn their kids off on, someone who will come cook or sew. I honestly wish Michael had more self-confidence – something that isn’t taught in fundie women. Enough self-confidence to do her own thing more; make her own friends at school and hang with them instead of subjecting herself to her mother and sisters multiple times per week, who treat her like the poor childless aunt and use her as a nanny/housewife. I know she loves kids, but there are OTHER kids out there even if not nieces and nephews. Hell she could coach a soccer team or some other kid extracurricular like that. Even the way they talk about her nursing school is such a back handed insult. It’s all – oh it’s SUCH a great career/calling . . . I mean you can practically hear the second part of their phrase “IF you can’t have the ULTIMATE job which is MOMMY, then I guess being a nurse is ok since she needs SOMETHING in her life since she isn’t #blessed with babies like I am.” The boys are a wildcard. I think some of them – Trace and Jackson especially – do look up to Zach and want what he has – a beautiful wife he met himself who isn’t fundie, a nice home, a nice living, a reasonable # of kids. But Trace is scared to actually go out there and make it happen; he doesn’t know what to do – follows around Z with the sheriffs office and Chad with contracting, neither of those is what he wants but he doesn’t know what he wants and doesn’t know how to find it. So I see him falling back into the – be a mama’s boy, get a fundie wife bc mama has told him that ANY woman would be lucky to bear his kids, and just take on whatever jobs his brothers in law can get him or his parents – wouldn’t be shocked to see him at that metals co soon where Chad and Bobby worked. Jackson – it’s too soon to tell whether he’ll step out and follow Z’s path or go down the path of least resistance. Nathan def has turned into a bitter 26 year old bc a girl dared turn him down and now has the nerve to be engaged. You can see it just in how he talks to his sisters. He went to Michael’s dress fitting and was going on about how certain dresses didn’t look good and same with Carlin or Tori going on and on about how they HAD to wear their hair down for the wedding bc that’s what guys like. Even Law who isn’t the most tactful person in the world was like -- the only correct answer is “you look great.” Yet Nathan STILL wouldn’t back off. And Law – IDK what his deal is, but I think he enjoys having money. It seems like he works for that relief org. now as he is always on site for every tornado. IDK how they pay – maybe that they only pay when he’s working. But reality is he lives at home, so even if he’s only working 10-12 weeks/yr, with no rent that money pays for his flight lessons (which he’s likely doing bc he’s realizing from Nate that once you have a full license yourself, you can get paid to give lessons/fly with beginners). Plus when he’s home for a while w/o an emergency to tend to and wants to get out of dodge, that money pays for him to grab an AirBnb in Nashville and some studio time. His only recurring costs are probably a cell phone and clothes and while he seems to like to look good, the clothes are mostly A&F, Gap etc. so it’s not like they’re terribly expensive esp at outlets. I think he realizes that tying himself down to a wife + 10 kids means that financial freedom as well as the ability to just pick up and go is gone. He’s 27 and still has his looks. Despite his family acting like he’s an old maid, he’s got time.

I'm actually surprised that the family social distanced at all. Seems like they did for a while though now they've stopped; I think Tenn. has reopened to some extent. Carlin/Evan and Josie/Kelton always post on IG re their daily family walks with their kids; Carlin/Evan posted early on about going to Costco to stock up; and one time Carlin/Evan went to a Sonic drive in and ran into Zach/Whit and lamented how they haven't seen anyone and there's no place to go so of course everyone had the Sonic idea. Law still mows his siblings lawns and posted one time after he was done mowing that Michaela left him a homemade dinner -- on her porch where he ate alone. And bc this is the Bates, I think someone had a baby in the interim (Tori?) and Kelly was posting how sad it was that she hasn't met that baby; nor do any of the sisters have pics with that baby. I think Law and Nathan were the wildcards bc they were still flying around; at one time it looked like they were in a rental apartment but I assume that's when they had flown to Mississippi or someplace and had to stay there for the night. I assume when they came back to town each time, they were in the main house with everyone. So maybe the married couples focused on this more than G&K, who are above all rules anyway. I was actually surprised that this -- rules don't apply to us, what do mere mortals/doctors know -- family was actually social distancing at all, at least the married couples. I figured Carlin/Evan were doing it because they have a baby whose had some cardiac issues. Kelton/Josie bc K was still going to work so I assume no one wants to hang with them; probably the same with Zach. Tori/Bobby were probably told by the hospital that their baby is to have no visitors for months. And Michael's in nursing school which I'm sure has been totally upended/maybe online right now, so maybe she believes in medicine a tiny bit?? But now that things are opening up, yeah the Bates are out there. Looks like they brought Bradley -- whose dad is out and about -- to Carson's birthday outing. Law has gone places with Katie and Isiah, though I guess he lives with them even though he comes and goes? Clearly they've relaxed.

Michael and Alyssa (and Zach) are likely doers because they had no choice. Gil and Kelly can sit there with the whole -- oh God will provide for our dinner table -- but Michael and Alyssa were the ones who actually had to DO IT and get dinner on the table. They probably learned by age 10 if not earlier that if you don't start chopping vegetables or prepping the meat by 4 pm, you won't be able to get dinner on the table for 20 people by 5:30 pm and that's when mama and daddy start to get cranky when dinner isn't on the table yet. I mean by the time Alyssa was 10 (and Michael was 15), I'm sure they were 100% responsible for meals -- they had 14 freaking children. They were putting dinner on the table for 16 ppl as pre teens. They are used to working HARD. It's interesting you mention Michael's wedding, I had totally forgotten. You're right she wasn't a total pushover. I wonder if some of that comes from her fundie beliefs too. You are under mom and dad's control until you become a WIFE and that's what makes you a WOMAN under your husband's control; so the wedding is for you and your husband -- and like most husbands Brandon deferred to Michael on it and thus she was like -- nope this is how WE want it, even if mom and Erin think otherwise. I don't recall much of it, but I do remember her being insistent on one particular church and worrying whether that church was available on that date; Erin tried to convince her other churches were fine and she was like nope -- it's THIS church. I also remember being surprised that she served real food. I know the Bates weddings aren't as pathetic as the Duggars, but they've gotten bigger lately with the social media savvy daughters. The older kids did punch and cake receptions (as did Tori bc she didn't give a $hit and clarified she'd do whatever Kelly wanted that was quick bc she just wanted to hit the motel bed w Bobby), as I expect they wanted all of the limited $$ to go into the wedding grandeur (ahem Erin) and that's what their parents had always seen and recommended. Michael OTOH worked out an agreement with the family she nannied for which owns a restaurant in town to provide chicken and sides for dinner. And then later when Erin and Carlin tried to redecorate her Chicago apt -- Kelly was the one appeasing her saying "it's just furniture, if you don't like it, they'll move it back" and Brandon when he came home was quick to say "well do YOU like it" -- as opposed to your sisters? I think she takes the fundie WIFE, this is MY marriage and MY home thing seriously. I think you're right -- Alyssa (and Josie) think they can keep a better home than Kelly (they do); Michael thinks she can be a better mom and just run a better/more disciplined household (unfortunately she hasn't had a chance but just seeing her with her siblings, cooking, sewing -- yeah she does the fundie wife things MUCH better); and Zach thinks he can work harder and provide better than Gil (he does). Alyssa has a lot of Mama Jane in her. Mama Jane doesn't even hide her annoyance when all 18 grandkids descend and act like animals and start to destroy her house. I mean even the older ones do it and G&K just laugh along. Like at a 4th of July gathering 1-2 yrs ago, she told them only one person in the hammock at a time -- Erin, Law, and Tori -- grown ass adults -- all climb in at once, break it, and walk away laughing and tell Mama Jane she's over reacting!? WTF -- she's an older lady likely on a fixed budget, buy her a new hammock and install it before you go. Likewise Alyssa barely hid her annoyance at Ally's 1st birthday when her older siblings were helping to prep and acting like they had never had fresh fruit before (likely something Gil doesn't spring for as it's pricey) doing the -- chop a strawberry, eat a strawberry, go back to chopping with the same hands that touched my mouth, who cares if it's unhygienic + results in a half tray of fruit salad. And this was people like Law/Nathan/Erin!? While Jeb/Jud ran around trying to destroy her house. She must've said something off camera though bc since then we see G&K visit alone; she often invites down 1-2 older boys alone like Trace or Isiah; and on the rare instance that G&K come with younger kids, they only bring 2-3 of them and now Gil is seen following them very closely around her house + being like -- I'm going to take them to the park/beach/Home Depot etc. to get them out of Alyssa's hair. Gil seems to get it/care more than Kelly when Alyssa is pissed. Even Michael who LOVES kids and clearly enjoys doing projects with her younger siblings and nieces/nephews is still very much a mom -- telling them no, telling them how they'll do x or y. Like with caramel apples, she was very clear that she and Brandon would handle the caramel, while it was drying - no one was to touch it and they would be outside playing with leaves etc. She was not going to have kids hands in caramel running off touching her couch and then laugh it off.

Agreed @RebeccatheWriter. Zach and Alyssa especially seem to want a better and nicer life that what they grew up in. Makes sense because they didn't grow up on the compound that today's kids/teens are living in; they mostly grew up in a 2 bedroom, 800 sqft home with 8 kids + 2 adults. I think Zach also decided his parents are full of $hit when he was the good son who did everything that was asked, prayed, etc. and his courtship still didn't work out. I think that's when he realized his parents don't know it all and there is a whole world out there that is still Godly (esp in eastern rural Tenn) but still lives, has nice things etc. So I think the nice house with a "limited" # of kids -- like 4 or 6 or whatever -- was a priority for him. And while Alyssa has that tiny little rental home, she is apparently fastidious about her house to the point where when they visit, Gil and Kelly actually monitor their other kids to make sure they don't destroy anything bc Alyssa will be pissed. Michael IDK about. I think she does truly believe in the fundie life 100%. I think she would be happy to sacrifice her life to have 12 kids even in a 2 bedroom home; IDK if the nicer things matter to her as much as the traditional views in which she was raised. Alas life didn't work out that way (though maybe she also now questions in her heart of hearts her parents' obsession that if you're Godly life will be exactly how you want), so I think now she'd just be happy with 1 or 2 kids which necessarily gives them a nicer life since they won't have to worry about providing for 15 kids. And then Carlin and Josie got caught up in the insta influencer world -- and Tori is their hanger oner (maybe IDK much about her) -- so that's when they discovered the nice houses, better clothes etc. since they need to photograph their lives well. Honestly I think the only ones ok with their parents lives would be Erin, Trace, Warden/Jax/Isiah because life was pretty easy for them -- didn't do much, didn't have much responsibility, in Erin's case it's the man's problem to figure out how to make $$$ and provide housing for 14 kids, and in the boys' cases they'd have a woman and daughters doing all the cooking/cleaning etc. so it'd be just like living with mom and dad except they'd go to their manual labor jobs. Law and Nathan may fall in there as well though for them I think they want their own jobs and lives that aren't tree work, but if a woman wanted to settle down with them, I see them having no problem settling into the fundie life; I don't see their aversion to fundie and tree work as exceeding their love for being pilots/being on the road etc; it's just something to do for now bc it gets them off the compound since they have no responsibilities to their own wives/kids etc.

Watching that video all I could think was OMG her parents are SO young, which I realize is unfair. Any parent would be freaking out whether they had their kid at 21 or 35 and it was actually much more common a few decades ago to get married at 22, baby by 24 even though it isn't common anymore at least not in my circles in the northeast. But at 22 and 24 Carlin and Evan are young parents -- esp in terms of maturity and exposure to the world esp Carlin. I will say even though it seems like they shot this video just after the incident, they were better "prepared." Had the requisite talk re God, talked about how Mama Bates and Law had texted them Bible verses and read them on camera etc. When Carlin had to suddenly go to the hospital with what turned out to be meningitis (I think?) and at that same time Erin had to rush Layla to the hospital bc she turned blue in the face, that video was a lot more "raw" with Carlin (understandably) crying "why us," "why does this keep happening?" I fully expected Evan to go into fundie mode and start talking Bible verses and lead her in prayer and he was equally like -- I don't know . . . . So it looks like that incident of being brought to the hospital by Erin is where they discovered Layla had a messed up EKG. Then Evan and Carlin had to take her to the cardiologist who discovered the hole in the heart which they say is minor and nothing needs to be done with it now/just watching. As much as I snark on these people, I hope it's the type of hole that kids get at birth that just closes on its own in a few years and nothing ever needs to be fixed. But obviously it's something that's "bad enough" or "scary enough" to the parents that they purchased an oxygen monitor for Layla which she was wearing when this incident happened. I'm just shocked E and C didn't film the cardiologist visit as they said on this video it was too overwhelming . . . . I also hope they slow the baby train because of this. She's a honeymoon baby and they haven't even hit anniversary #1 yet and clearly even if nothing needs to be done, this situation is a LOT. They should just focus on Layla for a year or two and THEN when things seem stable, have another kid -- at which time they'll only be like 24 and 26 so it's not like there aren't tons of childbearing years left. Why take on the stress of a baby who -- even if she is fine -- probably needs to be monitored by a cardiologist periodically for the next few years and you're dragging yourself to those appointments 9 mos pregnant or with a newborn in tow?? Plus Evan is still a student/apprentice in electrician school and he does talk about the financial stresses of being a newlywed with a child. And now it's a child who needs not only regular care but also some cardiac monitoring which I'm sure comes with its own premiums etc. and he can't get by with cheapo/no insurance. Might as well wait on kid #2 until he's a full earning electrician with a co. with good benefits.

It'd be nice if Gil meant it as -- "these girls need a mother -- i.e. please don't take the risk of more babies." But even if he DID mean it that way, I can see Kelly in Alyssa's ear talking about how much they need to try for John Elliott Jr. Especially since Alyssa has now said that the earlier, more "difficult" cardiac problem that she had has been solved thru the 2 surgical procedures and the current problem is more like AFib which is typically handled by meds. Unless those are the types of meds where you can't get pregnant (I have no idea), I can see Kelly saying at some point esp as more time goes by -- see you were healed by God so you owe it to God and John to do what you were put on this earth to do. While I'm not a fan of Gil, I do think he is a bit more human with his daughters and cares for them (sons OTOH he wants off his payroll ASAP). He and Alyssa are close and I can see him thinking he doesn't want her taking a risk. A few seasons ago he took Addie/Ellie/Callie out to lunch and either Addie or Ellie said something like they don't want to grow up because they you can't play, you "have to" go to college, and then you have to get married and leave home. Gil instinctively in that dad way says -- you never have to leave home, you can stay with dad forever if you want to. Kelly OTOH would have started lecturing a 10 year old girl about how her Godly purpose is to be a wife and mother and of course she wants that and if she feels she doesn't want that at the ripe old age of 10, there's something wrong with her and she had better start praying for guidance. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the sons seeking out apprenticeshps in the trades, but I think it should be the SONS seeking it out. OTOH the parents -- esp Kelly -- have decided that after leaving Zach, Nathan, and Law out there on their own to figure out a living, they now have enough "options" in the family to force each of the sons in law to provide jobs to the remaining sons -- Trace/Jackson/Warden/Isiah and eventually Jeb and Jud. Whether sons want it or not be damned. And no -- no one is allowed to do this the RIGHT way, with an actual trade school and license. So they will half ass it and become a contractor, electrician or plumber by working for one of their brothers in law. Honestly I think they'll all end up with Chad and maybe Evan if he ever opens his own shop -- if Chad can ever turn a profit after this recession; they're local + Chad has no backbone. John is in Fla. with a real business with his brothers, so I don't see that company hiring John's brother in law just bc John asks unless the BIL LEGIT has a license, as John's business does real HVAC work for car dealerships, restaurants etc. -- accounts they can't afford to lose. And Kelton while local just doesn't play ball with the Bates. Plus he has 2 (I believe) brothers of his own who are high school/young college age who've gotten their plumbing licenses while in HS; you know when Kelton's business grows and he's in a position to hire, he's hiring his brothers not Warden just bc Kelly says so.

So she has a hole in her heart. I’m sure it’s super scary for any parent but I honestly don’t get why these 2 film this?? ESP in the first part of the video, seems like the incident has just happened, they’re freaked out and upset (understandably) so the first impulse is to film it?? Are they trying to be YouTube stars? Are they already making $ off YouTube?

Yikes. I too went to Penn. He must be a rare breed over there as I doubt it's changed THAT much since I was there in the last decade. Will have to look him up. Do we know his last name?

What are the details on Eric? Which ivy did he go to? Looking really quickly at her insta it looks like they met/made it official bf/gf at the end of January and just 3 mos later, engaged. Sounds par for the course for a fundie relationship; they'll wedding plan for 3 mos and be married by this fall -- pandemic notwithstanding. See Bates boys you only have to hold onto a girl for 3 short months and you too could be married; all you need is to act like you have some ambition/life goals/money making ability and make your meddling mother and sisters appear normal for 3 mos -- or more easily conduct the courtship in HER hometown -- and you too could be set.

So I guess Erin is "ok" with 4 kids in a 2 bedroom house because Gil let it be known that they had EIGHT kids in a 2 bedroom, 800 sqft house. I assume it was boys camping in the living room and girls in a bedroom; or a girls and boys bedroom with G&K sleeping in the living room making a new blessing. I love that now the need from a new house stems not from -- we're packed like sardines -- but oh Carson is a BOY and you really don't want a BOY sharing a room with girls for so long so by the time he's 5 or so he needs his own room; he and his royal dick need their own rooms, the girls -- eh whatever, that's what servants quarters are for. Chad said a few seasons ago he doesn't believe in taking a mortgage so he will buy a falling down house in cash and fix that up. Yet the falling down houses they showed, OMG they will actually fall over in a swift breeze. It's possible they are changing their minds on the no mortgage stance -- Erin because she is being lapped by her siblings -- and Chad because he may be losing his mind with 6 people in 2 rooms. Yet no way anyone is giving him a mortgage as a new business owner of a construction business that let's be real is not going to pull in any real jobs for months/if not years. With 14%+ unemployment, I'm pretty sure people are deciding their closed concept house with the unrenovated kitchen is just fine. And sorry Chad doing "German schmear" for your sister in law who likely is paying you squat because your wife volunteered you is not a job as far as a lender is concerned. From the prior episode -- believe me I'm not fan of Lawson, but my goodness the rudeness of 11 year old Callie as she says with an attitude "he [Lawson] is 27 with no girlfriend, it's very odd." Guess G&K don't put the younger kids in their place? I'm sure she gets the attitude by seeing how Erin, Tori, Josie, and Carlin speak, but come on they are adults -- she's a child and freaking rude to speak like that about her 16+ yr older brother. Plus Callie there are a LOT of you -- you realize statistically it's possible some of you will be old maids; someone will end up divorced; someone will end up childless; someone may end up [gasp] gay. And re G&K's visit with Alyssa and John when they were talking about her heart problem, I love that Gil's first reaction was -- those girls need a mother. Uh does she have any value to you but for the fact that she pushed out children?? As much as I think women are NOT put on this earth to have babies, man Brandon and Michaela would be great parents. It wouldn't even be about showing off a pregnancy or a cute baby, I think they'd be good with and interested in every stage -- including the annoying stages. I wish they'd adopt. Michela actually seems like she interacts with and is somewhat close with Kelly's adopted African American sisters; I could see her being totally ok with an African American baby. I imagine the reluctance is with Brandon -- given his fundie affiliation, probably has never been around anyone non white etc. But IDK his own brother married a woman who has kids so he has 2 steps kids that are probably kindergarten/first grade age. I realize that bro is probably not fundie, but maybe things like that make Brandon slowly see the light you CAN have happiness if you want kids, even if you're not able to make your own for some reason.

In one of their recent YouTube videos (this year), they were asked about more kids and directly said they were sorting out Alyssa's health. But then Alyssa was the one who said they need a John Jr., and oddly John said "I don't need a jr." Seems like John could be convinced that 3 is enough and it's ok to have 3 girls and be done, whereas Alyssa is more about "giving John a boy." Could be that John is scared for her health but could also be that as the sole breadwinner in that tiny 3 bedroom home where they are kind of already on top of each other, he's thinking of the practical considerations of having more kids. And let's be real if they have another and it's not a boy, I see Alyssa wanting a fifth; or if it is a boy, I can see her being all --oh but he needs a brother, we need a fifth or sixth to get that done. And let's be real, she's stubborn. Over the years in those hokey "how well do you know your spouse games" they play, she's always said she wants/expects 6 kids. I can see her being like -- nope what do these drs. know, I can go for 6.

It's interesting how certain of their daughters -- esp Alyssa and Josie -- act a bit uppity and better than the rest, and yet their special date nights/anniversary dinners are a family seafood place and even there they are so unexposed to the world that they act all shocked at things like shrimp which can be bought in gigantic frozen bags from stores like Costco. And that scene with Josie and Kelton had be to be shot at like 4 pm on a Tuesday. Not only did they have a booth and a server making SUCH a big deal of the anniversary couple with dessert etc -- which is possible with a camera crew and a restaurant being comped -- but there were literally no other diners anywhere in the camera shot; not even one table in the background had a guest there. Alyssa is the same re being sooo much better than her family but then routinely posts pics of her and John's special date nights at Cheesecake Factory. Though I guess in this family where you marry young often to men with no marketable abilities, being married to a tradesmen who can take you to Cheesecake Factory or Chesapeake many times a year and on coffee dates weekly like Kelton IS a big deal. For as much as they act like the perfect couple, you never see Chad and Erin or even Zach and Whit going out; and let's be real if they DID go out, they absolutely would brag about it on social media. Evan for all his obnoxiousness has been legit honest about this. He and Carlin seem to go out but it's always things like fast food or Waffle House and in one of their videos he openly said -- I'm a newlywed and a new father AND I'm still in trade school, budget is definitely a concern. I wonder if it pissed Carlin off that he was so blunt. I mean as much as this family and all fundies used to be about buy used and save the difference, now in social media world they want to portray themselves as influencers and that does not mean showing you have budget issues even if you do. And on a different note it was Alyssa's first child's birthday and the gushy birthday messages on IG from John and Alyssa were cringe worthy -- all going on about how she's so helpful around the house and with her sisters. Because yes what else should a 5 year old girl be besides helpful with housekeeping and caretaking -- I mean gotta teach her young because if she's anything like her mother, she only has 14 years until she fulfills her only destiny as wife and mom.

Seeing Chaney's family, I too am left with the impression that on top of Chaney not being head over heels for Trace (at least it didn't seem like she wants him than anything more than a family friend who visits 1x/yr), her dad is the one who talked the real truth to her about life and that's what sparked the break up. Just from the one scene we saw with Chaney's dad and Trace, he seemed to have NO problem being direct -- and did not care that cameras were there -- as he said "remember what we talked about -- Texas -- I'm not raising them to leave." And then in the interview Trace spins it as -- he's a Godly man who wants his kids to go where God leads, whether that's Tx or Tenn or someplace else. Uh no -- Trace he explicitly said TEXAS, not where the Lord leads, which is what your phony family says. Someone being this direct likely had NO problem on an earlier visit asking Trace exactly what he does for a living, what he intends to do for a living, and how he will provide for a family. And her dad didn't strike me as a dumb guy or a guy who is removed from reality like G&K. He likely took 2 seconds to figure out that Trace is not a licensed tradesmen and does not intend to be; he's a guy with a religious studies type degree from a non accredited school and he makes $$ when his BIL gets a big construction job and needs a few more guys to help. And when his BIL doesn't have said jobs, Trace sits home -- unless Daddy has a tree job needing a few guys but it seems Daddy doesn't pay. This isn't the kind of thing that screams employability. While your BIL will hire you because he needs a guy, if he were to move to Texas, an actual contractor would require Trace to have some kind of training beyond -- oh I worked for my BIL. And then dad meets Gil who seems just as much a grifter with a TV show. Would not be surprised AT ALL if Dad expressed his concerns to Chaney directly about how life would look with a guy who makes maybe 20k/yr if we're being generous, likely has no health insurance etc. I mean this is a girl who is used to $$$ -- that house; the restaurant they went to looked very nice and clearly it wasn't her first time there as she was tell Trace about what to try. I'm not trying to say that she is a spoiled brat or anything but it'd be one thing for her to marry a young guy and live in a newish rental apartment, and then move up from there to a small house that can be a renovated, and/or then eventually to a forever home -- kind of the way Kelton went from a rental to a house they're making their own. It's another thing to get with a guy knowing that a 2 bed is probably it and oh BTW you'll be living there with your 5-10 kids.

Chaney is from Texas though not rural Tx, a suburb 30 min from Dallas; given how she lives and the type of restaurant they went out to, I'm sure she's also shopping at Nordstrom etc. as Dallas women tend to love shopping and she/her family don't strike me as the thrift store or Walmart types. I do agree with you though -- a girl from a major metro area like Ashley from NYC or suburbs of a metro area (Chaney) will just have a different outlook on life and lifestyle than someone born and raised in a small town. I hope Katie isn't expecting Travis to move to rural Tenn. He's from southern NJ right outside Phila. and also lives in a a $$$$ home -- though IDK maybe he has a Bobby type of personality as he left his cushy gated community in Fla. for this. If these boys have any hope of a gf sticking around, they need a small town southern girl. And yeah I don't get all the fake shock that happens that a BOY could move away. Uh didn't you compel Bobby, Evan, Brandon, and Chad to move away from their families and move to you and make the Bates grandparents/uncles/aunts the #1 family? Guess it doesn't feel so good when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? I have to imagine Law just isn't interested for whatever reason. There's no way he's had NO female interest given his looks. Maybe it's something deep. Or maybe he just likes that he can pick up and go anytime he wants to do flight training or there's a tornado or he wants to record some songs; as a single guy he pulls in enough money probably from his disaster relief stints that he can get by and spend that fun money on clothes, cell phone, and wks here and there in Nashville and flight lessons. Once there's a wife and an army of kids, he's not going anywhere and maybe he dreads that.