cereality

Both of them are big on IG videos too -- which only stay on their account for 24 hrs.

No masks at Topgolf for anyone in their party. His brother seemed to have like a gaiter around his neck but it was around his neck not on his face. The parties at the neighboring tees also weren't masked (though looks like maybe the company is social distancing bc they weren't RIGHT next to another party). But there were def masked people in the background -- I assume they were mostly Topgolf employees. I know everyone has different views on this but IDK a Topgolf type of place where you're using communal golf clubs that have been used by others wouldn't be high on my list. I'm sure the employees are wiping them down but still IDK all it takes is a slight mix up where some employee thinks someone else wiped down those clubs or oh I don't think anyone has used these ones in weeks, they're fine and now you're handling something just touched by others and in between hits you're touching hand to mouth as most people who go there order food and eat while they aren't hitting. I just looked it up -- the only Topgolf in Tenn is IN Nashville; so clearly they went into the metro area, close to the touristy parts of town for entertainment. And looking at their website it says that guests are required to wear a mask in the venue. Guess it isn't being enforced so the Stewarts took advantage.

At this point they have to be telling people, no? J&A maybe not -- it had just happened, so I can see them being the types who casually mention it once they arrive and are sitting down to dinner with J&A. But now having returned from there and calling up his parents and saying hey we're coming to Nashville, I'd imagine his parents would say -- sure but how come you're coming on a Tuesday, don't you have to work this week? At which point I imagine they're saying -- oh E's work said don't come back for 14 days so party-time. At that point you'd think some of the people who he's wanting to visit would give him some side eye and bow out. Maybe not his parents -- I feel like parents (even normal ones who believe in science which his fundie parents may not) end up in tough situations because they don't want to tell their baby not to come; his brother probably doesn't get a choice because he lives in his parents' home I think. But the sister and BIL they could easily just not stop by, not go golfing with them etc. and could be pretty clear about -- glad mom and dad want you to visit, but we're still social distancing and not going to public venues like Topgolf. At this point I think LOTS of people have moved on, whether it makes sense or not.

And they’re back in Nashville. Chilling at Topgolf with his parents, brother, sister and BIL complete w Layla crawling on the Topgolf grass/turf.

I was actually wondering about work bc he said while seated in the car before the test that he was off for 14 days -- no matter how the test went; so I wondered why he couldn't go back as soon as it was negative. I assume work (and the guideline writers which are ppl like your MD daughter) did NOT mean for that time to be used as a vacation. I wonder if they even told J&A before arriving or if it came up incidentally during the weekend. And forgetting the test even -- OMG is it necessary to get on a commercial flight right now?? With your baby who is higher risk?? And IDK if social distancing with J&A would even mean anything given that they stayed in the same house with them; but yeah Friday night there were pics of all 4 of them cozied up on the same couch watching a movie, lots of Joy and Carlin hugging pics etc. so yeah they weren't even trying to maintain some space.

Yikes — as much as I snark on them I’m glad it was negative. His exposure couldn’t be helped. He’s an electrician apprentice — if his program has decided it’s business as usual then he needs to go to work to provide. But after it turned out negative you’d think it’d put enough fear in them to lay low and stay home - not bc it’s required but bc why take the risks of car shopping or flying to Arkansas or being around another family including staying in their home all weekend when I’m fairly certain Austin has also been working outside the home as a contractor so he’s also having some interaction w people.

So looks like Carlin and Evan are headed to Arkansas to see Joy and Austin. They're in masks so I assume they're flying a commercial flight?

Was gonna make the same comment. While A&J are marginally better than the Bates clan in some ways, I’ve always had the vibe that they are seriously training their girls to be married at 19 and mommies at 20 just like Alyssa was and since Allie is oldest, the focus is on training her right now while Lexi and Zoey get to enjoy being little girls right now at 2-3 yrs old. If it was just Alyssa I’d be more inclined to blow it off bc honestly what has she ever seen in her home besides girls cooking, cleaning and being responsible for siblings by like age 7 and then being praised just for that — not for being smart at science or good at soccer or whatever. But I feel like they’re 100% raising their girls this way bc John does it too. He definitely has made posts praising Allie for being so helpful around the house and taking care of her sisters. Yeah John bc a girl should have no other interests besides helping mommy dry dishes or fold laundry. If this was just an effed up Bates thing I feel like A would go on about helpfulness while J like a regular dad would talk about how she’s spunky or smart or can out run or out-jump rope him or whatever.

They view babies/kids as props to bestow status in their fundie society. A baby is a prop to be dressed up looking cute and carried around like a sack of potatoes the way that others carry around Versace bags or wear Louboutins. A baby is status in a society where you need to show the world -- you got a man to marry you, he can get it up, and you can carry a pregnancy and push. I mean I don't think they even want their kids to be smart esp the girls. With the babies like Carlin and Josie's (sorry can't remember all the baby names), it's hard to know what they're really like. But we've seen time and time again when these people do birthday messages to their kids (or on the show "birthday praises" given verbally) -- it's always this person loves the Lord, wants to love the Lord more/spread the gospel, or is sooo helpful. And for a girl child -- she had better be helpful. I mean it'd be one thing if G&K did this bc with 19 kids, they don't know them individually (they're slightly better than the Duggars but that doesn't say much). But we've def seen Erin, Alyssa, John, and Whit say these kinds of things -- like they'll go on about how their 2 yr old or 5 yr old daughter is soooo helpful at home and loves to do housework . . . . Like a little girl could have no other interests besides helping mommy fold laundry and clean up her brother's toys. But honestly they don't even want a smart (or witty or whatever) girl. What would they do with that? How would she catch a husband? They 100% believe you NEED to be dumb to flatter a man and then he falls in love with you. I mean remember the show Carlin put on when she and Evan and Gil went to go get the marriage license. OMG Evan you KNOW your social security # -- ALL of it -- OMG I could NEVER do that, it's soooo long, you're soooo smart. And dad wait your full name isn't GIL and mom wasn't born in Knox, OMG I didn't know that -- wait Evan you know your dad's name AND where your parents were born -- OMG you're a genius . . . . And then even at the wedding Gil goes on about how Carlin should praise Evan, it works for every guy -- tell him how smart he is and how hard working he is and he'll turn into super man. Basically you women are just here to suck the man's dick. I mean what on earth would they do if Layla or Allie or whoever wanted to be a dr or an engineer -- who would marry that?!

Layla's parents' behavior during this pandemic has been appalling. Many of the Bates really but AFAIK E&C are the only ones with a baby with a heart condition. I'm really trying not to judge what people are doing bc we all live in different places that were affected differently, personal risk tolerances differ. But IDK anyone who'd say that it's ok to have a high risk tolerance when you have a 4(?) mo old WITH A HEART CONDITION!?! C posted that dumb IG to brag about how HER MAN is SUCH a hard worker that he only slept 4 hrs the night before and STILL met his wife and baby girl out for shopping after work. Cue pic of Evan lying down on those benches they have near the fitting rooms of what I think was an Old Navy with Layla lying on top of him. Ok gross enough to lie down on those yourself even in regular times -- people put their feet up on them to try on shoes; ppl pile their shopping bags and purses that they may have put on the floor 2 seconds prior on them. But whatever he's a grown man, but to have his baby with a HEART CONDITION on him while he's lying down on a public bench?? Though I guess that's still better than last week's Stew Crew or Stew Fam or whatever the eff they call themselves video. They start off going to church -- a mega church we've seen before so I think some of the siblings have gotten married in that one -- one of those typical 2 tier southern churches that is like a high school auditorium. Didn't see the baby so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they left her with Michaela who lives 5 min up the road. I was too charitable too soon bc then they go on later in the video about how they have CHOIR practice at night and it's the minister's wife bday so there's a little church party so they're back WITH THE BABY. I assume that church thinks it's social distancing -- bc there seemed to be some space btwn Carlin and the next singer, but like 1 chair's worth of distance, no where near 6 ft. And then cue them eating cupcakes -- or resisting cupcakes bc the theme of the video was Keto -- from a communal buffet in the church lobby. And THEN they go out to dinner with the minister/his wife and a few other friends from church at Waffle House -- which I can't imagine has an outdoor dining thing going on!? I mean I guess they've missed the memos that one of the first super spreader events in Wash State was a church choir -- on the theory that people are projecting voices indoors and then that gets carried around the entire room; and indoor restaurants with a dozen or even half dozen others!? And then today Kelly is posting pics with all the grandbabies bc apparently G&K had them all over a few days ago -- bc Law was posting videos carrying them around. And there's Layla with all the other kids!? I know they're saying this isn't as big a deal for kids etc. BUT they're also saying that for cardiac conditions they just don't know yet in terms of cardiac effects beyond just a fever or whatever. I mean many/most of the Bates seem like they've decided the pandemic is over and that it never really even happened -- though I've heard that's the view in Tenn generally, maybe outside of the big cities like Nashville. I mean Josie bragged about her man taking them on an ice cream date last night -- cue sitting indoors in a fro yo shop where you serve yourself from the machines and then help yourself to communal topping touched by 8000 other ppl (though maybe the biz isn't self serve anymore - though in rural Tenn who knows); but do you REALLY need to sit indoors and have daddy and daughter sharing a spoon and coo about how cute it is?? But then maybe it's fine for Josie's kid, but does that make it fine for E&C's kid? And they really need to get together with John and Abbie? NW Arkansas also has a growing number of cases -- should anyone be traveling to/from there??

I'm positive the girls are more comfortable with John's side of the family, after all they live on the same street and see them daily not merely 6x/yr. But I know after the 2nd surgery, they sent the girls to stay with his parents for a week even though Alyssa only gets kept in the hospital for a day or 2 after this. Given the incisions that are made in both legs, the neck etc. it's just hard/painful for her to move which isn't conducive to taking care of young kids or really even having them home when a 1 yr old will insist on jumping on mommy or only mommy can give her dinner or whatever. So then John can focus on Alyssa with his parents/siblings focusing on the kids. G&K staying wouldn't have been for the grandkids, it would have been for THEIR kid. But I think @3 is enough is right. K knows if she stays, she will be expected to help J&A. They can't just sit in the hotel all day and then stop by to "fellowship." As much difficulty as Alyssa had with pain and even moving after the first surgery that she had John rolling her over in bed -- that means G&K would be left to deal with EVERYTHING else. As in figure out all the meals -- grocery shop for them (though I guess Alyssa could have stocked up in advance), make meals, serve them, and clean up the kitchen after and do that 3 times/day for days on end. IDK how much of that Kelly did in her own house once Michaela was like age 10 or so. I mean sure we do see her in the kitchen on UPTv lamenting how she's lost all her help now that the girls went to college/married so now she has the boys helping but IDK I think it's for cameras only. I have no doubt that 14 year old Addallee does a lot of the day to day cooking. I mean even at Carlin's (I think?) baby shower she was like -- omg where is Michaela the subs I ordered didn't arrive, what do I do?? She was throwing a party but couldn't handle a takeout order let alone cooking for her daughter for a week. Frankly if she wanted to stay she would've been better off bringing Addallee or Michaela or someone to actually do the work. I think they probably just decided that it was "easier" to be there on the surgery day. After all no one expects anyone to do anything that day -- it was like 10+ hrs that they sat around during the surgery + while Alyssa was in recovery. Then they could see her, satisfy themselves that she's fine, take pics (bc they did post hospital pics), and leave. G&K are pretty worthless. It really is all about the meaningless wedding showers, coordinating with boyfriends re over the top courtship and engagement asks, baby showers, gender reveals, I Love You day, etc. The "fun" stuff. Not that K even does the work for that -- oh Erin LOVES to decorate, Michaela LOVES to cook or at least coordinate the food -- while K stands there and takes credit and social media pics. And then when it's something tough like Alyssa's surgery, Carlin's kid's heart issue, Michaela's inability to get pregnant it's -- oh well pray about it. And no doubt at some level she's blaming some of the them bc of how they are "choosing" to live -- i.e. well Alyssa has gone too far wearing tank tops/pants; Carlin conceived the baby on a honeymoon where she was in shorts/tank tops with a husband in a tank top and shorts (bc while the Bates boys wear shorts now I think fundies are against it overall); Michalea has been honest re wavering in her faith when they weren't getting pregnant. You know Kelly is like -- well they need to be more Godly, what did they think would happen when they started living this way?? I feel like the only empathy we've seen for her is for Erin's miscarriages and I imagine that's bc Erin is a mini Kelly + they don't want to piss of Erin's husband whose their bitch + Erin's problem was figured out so they were able to say -- see she kept in faith and God sent the answer to Dr. Vick and now there's a baby yearly. I feel like if Erin had remained childless like Michaela, Kelly would def have pulled away and viewed her as "less than" and someone who just wasn't living life "right."

The more we see of G&K the more unimpressed I am. Seems that they are only interested in kids when they're young enough to be carried around -- so up until age 3 -- then again when it's courtship and wedding time and then again for the girls when it's time to push out at least the first kid. Alyssa was only 24 when the cardiac issues started. I realize that's over 18 but for many people you're still pretty young, just starting out in life, and kind of reliant on your parents even if for advice and emotional support -- esp the people who are still in med/law/grad school at that age. It's different bc she DOES have a husband and has 3 kids so she is more "independent" than someone who has been in school for years but that doesn't mean that she can't use additional support beyond her husband. I mean 50-55 year old parents can't step up for a 24 year old kid? It's not like they're 80+ and it's hard for them to travel, so their 50+ year old "child" has to deal with it. I mean it's not like these people have any kinds of jobs, nor do they really raise the younger kids. G&K had to fly home same day -- why exactly? At the time Alyssa's surgery happened, Carlin and Katie were home -- they could've made sure the kids who are Jackson and younger were fed. If they couldn't, guess what 13 year old Addallee along with Ellie and Callie could've fed Jeb/Jud as well as teenage Jackson/Isiah/Warden. Or Jackson/Law etc. could've stepped up and just ordered pizza nightly. Hell let Michaela know and she'll bring over a few huge casseroles and take over Kelly's house for a week in addition to going to school. Thank goodness Alyssa is married and to a guy like John -- may not be the most educated but he's been with her every step of they way. I'd venture to guess Chad, Brandon, and Kelton are the same -- they adore their wives and would be worried sick and would do whatever they needed to do, whether G&K showed up or not. Evan and Bobby -- eh I'm sure they'd step up too -- but IDK they seem more like complainers; when Carlin had to go to the hospital and then Layla was at the children's hospital and G&K were in California and for whatever reason Carlin's 76 siblings didn't step in, Evan was quick to call his parents and brother to drive over from Nashville.

IDK why they're posting these incredibly personal videos re how hard the surgery was on her esp the first one esp when it seems like there is (rightly) some PTSD about it esp for John. I feel bad for them and then also find myself thinking OMG go to a major metro area cardiac hospital like Miami that has a ton of experience in these things; I'm not saying it would be easier on her there but this is the kind of thing where she needs people who are as experienced as possible not ppl saying -- hmm I've never seen a neck catheter act like that before; even John sarcastically responded to that -- "or so he says . . .". And WTH are Gil and Kelly soooo busy with that they couldn't be there for more than 12 hrs the day of? The son in law has all the stress on him, presumably his parents weren't there bc they had all the kids including a 1 yr old, and her 2 jobless parents -- who also don't raise their other kids -- can't stay for a few days? It was a 6 hr surgery and she said by the time she came out of it Gil had left bc he needed to catch a flight out for some prescheduled obligations. So I thought -- ok oh Kelly was staying a few days. Well John left the hospital after she was put into a room to take Allie out for her daddy daughter date bc it was her birthday (eyeroll - on the necessity of a date though I do get what he said that he didn't want her to remember it as a bad day) and then Alyssa had some complications while he was gone, and Kelly called John who had just finished up and dropped off Allie and said he needed to get back ASAP bc of complications and bc Kelly had to leave in an hr or 2 anyway. Seriously -- they couldn't be there to help John and to help Alyssa when she first got home bc she said she couldn't move around much, John would have to help her roll over?! Parents of the year there. Seems like for her surgeries they've just swooped in for the photo opps. I know Alyssa is a private person so maybe she doesn't want them there 24-7 but you'd think as parents THEY'D want to be there when their 24 year old child needs heart surgery. Just be around for a week after. Stay in a hotel. You don't have to be in A&J's face 24-7 but you can come and go and jump in to help when John needs a break, needs to go see the kids etc. Seems like once they marry, they really are their spouse's problem. On the predictable fundie talk they were refreshingly honest esp John. He did say that he questioned why it was happening to them, they were good people, they help others and then his conclusion was God saying -- well why can't it happen to YOU? Do you think you're special? Look at the things that happen around the world. I think all the Bates kids -- and prob all fundies -- are raised to believe that if they obey their parents and God, don't kiss or have sex before marriage, and then get married and have kids and teach them religion, life is "guaranteed" perfect. And now we see the Bates kids like normal people "struggle" with failed courtships, not being able to get pregnant in Michaela's case, Layla's heart condition etc. I feel like John -- not being raised by the Bates -- was especially mature in his "you're not special, why can't it happen to you" conclusion; I expect that Michaela and Brandon probably are as well bc they seem thoughtful. I wonder OTOH if Carlin, Trace, Nathan question their faith and/or blame G&K for "promising" this perfect life if they just played by the rules; I mean we know Zach blamed G&K and then found his own girl to marry and started setting up life his own way when he realized that G&K were full of $hit.

I assume the problem for which she had 2 ablations is solved since the last one was around Aug-Sept and it's been more than 6 mos. She did say in a recent episode though that she was having a-fib or a similar heart rate issue but that was more likely to be solved with medication. And on a different note -- damn daddy daughter dates are a special kind of creepy. Watched the one with John and Allie for her 5th birthday. They acted like it was a prom. With Alyssa having her pick out dresses, jewelry and shoes the day before and telling a freaking FIVE year old that she couldn't wear certain tacky crappy 5 year old jewelry bc it doesn't match her dress!? Uh she's FIVE who cares if she wears a blue bracelet with a pink dress. Meanwhile she's curling the kid's hair as John is steam ironing his shirt in the kitchen and tying a tie and putting on a full suit. I mean we wouldn't want to go wrinkled or open collar on a date with a FIVE year old DAUGHTER. And then Alyssa sat lamenting about how for her 4th bday, Alyssa was in the hospital, but the kid and John STILL went on a date (despite John saying in the prior video how stressed and tired he had been with no sleep leading up to the surgery) that day and wait for it -- she had a friend come over and get her dressed and curl her hair!? And then this "date" -- the only food choices were fast food in the car in part bc of Covid in part bc she's 5 so I hardly think you're taking her to a Michelin star restaurant even if one is open. So like a 5 yr old she chose -- smoothies from McDs, food from Chick Fil A, topped off with a shake from Chick Fil A. And then they go park in an empty parking lot facing a "lake" (looked like one of those Florida retention ponds they have all over the place) climbed into the back of the SUV to what can only be described as a make out spot -- bc Alyssa wanted it to look special so she put in pillows and blankets -- to eat. And like a 5 yr old she farted, giggled uncontrollably, and as John sat there and explained the significance of a Pandora bracelet which will allow him to add a charm yearly, she practically broke the bracelet as she yanked it in every which direction to pull it out of its packaging. And then they played hide and seek, which wasn't weird at all to do beside an abandoned parking lot where anyone can drive by and scoop up your child as you're not watching or the kid can fall into the retention pond and then daddy is seeking said kid running in a suit, tie and dress shoes in 90 degree Orlando weather in May. What is wrong with these people?? I realize they (or at least Alyssa) are so under exposed they wouldn't know it but climbing into the back seat of the car with it being decked out to make it "special" -- yeah there's undertones of high school kids doing that when they want to make out or go all the way but can't risk doing it at home bc they'd be caught. What would be so wrong with -- hey kid it's your birthday, let's go get food just you and me -- and make that a yearly tradition if you want her to remember something she did with daddy. And then you take her out wearing jeans and a t shirt and flip flops or whatever your normally wear. And then you eat in the car this yr or in a restaurant in following years -- and talk about whatever the kid wants to talk about without trying to get deep and meaningful!? And if this is what "dates" look like with John who is relatively normal as far as fundies and attention whores go -- can't wait to see what Evan's dates will be like in 3-4 years.

Interesting that it's a Bobby post instead of Tori. Usually gushing on social media is the fundie mom's job, but I suppose he figured it'd take her a year to get around to posting the pics and he wanted to share so he did it. Even when we see them in the red couch interviews, he DOES seem very happy about his son -- and now likely both sons. The rest of his life -- not so much -- he always comes across like he's just enduring an annoying wife, a job that he doesn't really want but at least he gets to work with BFF Kelton, a life in East Tenn that I don't think he really wants but at least there's Kelton . . . . He's aged a bit and he's only 25 and only married 2.5 years. He just doesn't have that fresh faced look he had when he came onto the Bates scene which had to be like 3-3.5 yrs ago max.

Yeah that was my question. Wow that's a lot of siblings -- even being one of 6 kids from the one family is a lot. No wonder everyone has so much opinion since it seems like most/all of them also live in Tampa, see each other continuously, she works for dad's business. Not blaming Chuck, she probably doesn't have too many skills/experience to get a decently paying job, as I get the sense it's one of those families where women don't work/hold a 'minor' job while they raise the kids, while the men are expected to bring home the $$$. So this allows dad to give her a reasonable lifestyle making sure she and her daughter don't starve, and likely he pays her more than she'd make for some competing property manager who'd pay market value because he's not worried about her loser husband bringing home no money for like 3+ years now. Laughed when Andrei said it was Chuck's obligation to pay for his daughter's wedding, just like he will one day pay for Eleanor's wedding. You sure about that Andrei? I mean the way this is going I can see him STILL making excuses 25 years from now about how he doesn't want to drive trucks or work for a contractor and he'll only take the perfect handyman job. And IDK how old Chuck is but he doesn't seem super old - maybe in his 50s? So at that age he'll only be 75ish and will STILL be expected to foot the bill for his granddaughter's wedding. I'm sure it was for camera but it's interesting that Andrei freaked out that they all HAD to go to Moldova in a month for the wedding. He said -- you're all invited. It's an invitation, not a summons. If some/all of the siblings don't want to go, can't go, etc., does it really matter to Andrei? The wedding is for him and his side of the family, and let's be real it's not like any of his BILs/SILs are his friends so this isn't about -- oh but I want my parents to meet my closest friends and relatives from the US. I mean I can see some "insistence" that the parents go so Chuck can walk her down the aisle, the moms can meet etc. but otherwise -- whatever -- if 1-2 siblings wants a vacation bc they want to see another part of the world, maybe a single sibling looking to travel, great; if not, whatever.

How many siblings does Libby have? I knew there were 2 sisters but I never realized there were brothers. I always figured the guys hanging around were brothers in law, but today the name line showed that the 2 guys sitting next to the dad at the birthday were brothers. Andrei is an ass and I'll never defend him, but Libby's sisters are a piece of work too. In the commercial for next week the sisters are going on about how they never want to go to Moldova, it's the most dangerous place on earth. Uh it's an Eastern European country -- while it's poorer than say Denmark where one of the brothers in law is from, it's not an unsafe, terror, violent crime type of country either. Do they think they're being asked to attend a wedding in Syria? Her family strikes me as a very 'Murica kind of family -- yet it's interesting that at least 2 of the sisters couldn't seal the deal with down home American guys and had to bring in "foreigners."

I think Alyssa and Kelly definitely are that stupid. Alyssa has said in videos in the last few months that she'd love to have a John Elliot Jr and it's John who has said -- no I don't need a Jr. I'm sure it's a combo of stupid + drs don't know everything + God will protect her + God has now given a cardiologist that understands her problem so NBD + if God means for her to have sons, no dr. can stop her. Hopefully JOHN falls in the category of not being super educated but also not being stupid. He seems shaken by this whole thing, and I think he genuinely loves her. While he loves his kids, when I watched the video of their recent pandemic trip, it was very clear that he loves and wants to spend time with HER and did not get married just so he could have kids. I mean he was giddy about a relatively crappy vacation -- an AirBnb, sex with his wife, cheez-its, cheesecake factory takeout, and 4 days of playing pool and darts. But it just suggested how much he wants to just hang out with her. He even made a side comment about -- oh we just don't to talk much at home because we're always training (eyeroll) little people; he was genuinely sad to leave and Alyssa was the one who made it sound better by saying -- yeah but we miss the kids SO much and John was the one who half hardheartedly was like uh yeah we miss them. Seems like he'd be perfectly happy with just the 3 girls, in 16 yrs the youngest will be 18 and J&A would only be 46 and 41 leaving then YEARS to hang out at still relatively "young" ages. I don't think he is one of those people who is interested in being 46 and walking 22 yr old Allie down the aisle and then toting around his 2 yr old at the reception, the way Gil was doing with Jeb and Jud during his/Erin/Zach's weddings. I'm sure he's glad to have a family but I feel like it's more of a "if we want a family later, we have to raise kids now" type of obligation; as opposed to say a Brandon who if they could would LOVE to have kids ranging from newborn to age 20 by the time he's 50. I think him and Michaela are just fulfilled by being around children -- whether that means teaching or wiping noses or playing -- in a way that John isn't.

@RebeccatheWriter - the lack of research vibe is the same vibe in Alyssa and John's video too. I realize her situation was scary but it went on over 4 mos to the first surgery and then the second one was 3-4 months later and in that time she WAS posting on IG, started her Youtube channel, hawking products on IG, went to I Love You day, was going to church, several brothers visited etc -- so she WAS doing stuff. Plus if she couldn't research, then there's John too. Yet in their video John is all like -- OMG the drs. used SUCH big words, it's so hard to understand any of it. And they talk about how they were being sent to random drs. who didn't know what was going on so they'd send them to another subspecialist and they spent their time praying that they'd find the right dr who'd make the diagnosis and come up with a treatment. Uh in these days of google -- could've researched and found the closest top academic health center + done basic research re the conditions and had questions to ask. Unfortunately in healthcare nowadays you are expected to advocate a bit esp since drs. tend to be busy, so if you don't ask questions then often drs. don't sit down and really explain things and then they felt punted from dr. to dr. randomly but not really knowing why. E&C are the same -- they have plenty of time for weekly YT videos and non stop photo shoots and dressing up their kid and cooing about what a cute baby they made, but otherwise, how much have they really researched and looked into. Part of me is like maybe it's just that their educations are SOOO subpar that maybe the reading comprehension just isn't there? And it's not like the husbands are geniuses either -- maybe they're marginally better but IDK when John was talking about big words?? I also wonder if there are some heart conditions in the family that they just don't know about? Alyssa in her video talked about how she never went to the dr when she was younger, she went 1x when she was a kid for an allergic reaction, she has never had needles (does that mean the Bates don't vaccinate??) . . . . Granted an adult can totally develop an arrhythmia out of no where and kids can be born with a hole in the heart that closes over 1-2 yrs, but with 2 members on the same side of the family having heart issues close in time -- maybe there are some recessive cardiac issues? Would they even know if a few of there kids were walking around with heart murmurs etc. Not that that type of thing is problematic for 99% of people but it's the kind of thing people know about from yearly checkups on their kids until at least high school so that if later in life (or in Alyssa's case age 24) something pops up, they can give drs. some background. I mean for their sake I hope not and I hope everyone is 100% but with this family, I feel like they wouldn't focus on anything preventative unless it had to do with reproductive parts -- like how all the girls were on high alert/checked for whatever clotting disorder Erin has that causes miscarriages.

John and Alyssa posted part 1 of a video re her heart condition which they clearly made on their anniversary trip. IDK why they, E&C etc. are suddenly so big on YouTube videos -- are they all looking for YT sponsorships? My one bit of mean snark -- they both come across so uneducated/dumb. John goes on about how the drs use such big words that they don't know what is going on. They really strike me as the types that just were going on what drs where saying without even being able to ask questions bc they just have no critical thinking skills. But I know what I said just then IS mean and unnecessary bc that IS what all of us non doctors are like at various levels and the average American DOES do just what the dr says without really understanding. I really feel for them -- a sudden heart condition comes on in Jan 2019 and they really don't get answers until like Apr 2019 bc they'd go to the ER and her heart wouldn't be doing that exact rhythm so there's nothing they could to help; they'd send her to a cardiologist and then it'd take 2 wks to get an appt; then that dr would do tests and 2 weeks later say hmm this isn't my specialty; go see a cardiac electrophysiologist then it takes 3 weeks to get that appt etc. And in the meantime she is feeling crappy; her heart rate will jump to the 200s and then down to the 40s leaving her wiped out/on the verge of passing out - and in fact the first time it happened was while w driving w all the kids and she had to pull off the road; they're scared; they have 3 kids including a 1 yr old at the time; John takes days/weeks off but also has to return to work bc he makes the $; so now she's scared and alone with 3 very young kids; so she spends 8 hr days sitting at her MIL's house with the kids or having their niece spend 8 hrs a day at their home just so there's another adult around who can keep an eye on her and the kids. It's interesting how enmeshed she is with John's family. I know it's just convenience of living in the same neighborhood but with 67 members in her own family, they seriously couldn't dispatch a sibling to go live with them or Kelly couldn't go -- though maybe that wouldn't help as Alyssa would have to cook and clean for Kelly. Michaela is likely the only one who'd even want to go and I'm guessing this was during the school semester; all the other married girls wouldn't do it. Carlin was single at the time but married that May so no way she'd tear herself away from her wedding planning + fiance plus she's an annoying loud liability more than a help and Katie -- who knows how close she is w Alyssa + IDK if G&K want to let their only single girl go bc then who cooks and cleans at their house?? Maybe it's just bc I've lived in east coast big cities but instead of going from random dr to random dr hoping for answers, I wish they had showed up instantly at U Florida's cardiology practice or hell even made the calls to get an appointment at U of Miami which has a great cardiology division, left the girls with the MIL, and made the 3 hr drive. Academic health systems see really complex things so they're more likely to be able to figure stuff out-- yet I think they just didn't know what to do and instead predictably said they turned to praying for answers and just trusting that whatever practices that their local hospitals sent them to would eventually figure it out. Also interesting that Alyssa mentioned she has some 2nd cousin who is "in cardiology" (didn't say if she was a nurse/dr/what) who was the one who finally said -- you need an electrophysiologist who specializes in x, I will find you someone in your area and in fact THAT dr is the one who worked with them on meds/surgeries. Interesting that there ARE some educated ppl in the family. I shouldn't be shocked though -- only G&K went fundie so nothing prevented their family members from going to nursing school or med school. Also funny that the dr she ended up working with for the 2 surgeries is Indian -- I mean NBD to me but for all the -- Lord only loves Christians etc attitude, funny that her problem was finally remedied by a Indian Hindu dr. I wouldn't be surprised if this has scared John into wanting NO more kids bc he doesn't want Alyssa to go thru pregnancy. Even talking about it 9+ mos after the fact, he was teary and said it's hard to talk about and 2019 was the worst year of his life. And he said that when they wheeled her away and told him he had to stay in the waiting room, he basically went back to the room and cried for an hour. His reactions and care for her are very genuine and not in a OMG LOOK AT ME I'm a loving husband I CRIED kind of way; even now he seems a bit shaken. I think they likely WILL have more kids but it'd be great if he exercised his headship and put a stop to it and kept on using whatever protection they've been using for 2+ yrs since Zoey's birth.

These 2 continue to be the brightest lights in the harbor. I was definitely giving them side eye when they HAD to go on vacation bc ANNIVERSARY and it's NBD bc we have our own house, we'll socially distance, we won't see a single person except the 15 ppl in the house. At that time I was like ok maybe the house is set apart from others, you have your own section of the beach, and you eat at home but seriously Law/Trace/Jackson/Warden/Isiah won't be hitting up convenience stores for junk food? None of the little kids will go out to ice cream even once . . . seemed unlikely. Well fast forward, they posted a video and Evan goes -- well C and I were dressing up to go take beach photos (bc I mean you MUST have a weekly photo shoot anywhere you are) but then C's brothers biked into town for ice cream so we thought we'd go meet them. So off they go -- fortunately leaving the sleeping baby with Addalee. Tiny ice cream shop indoors -- not like a roadside outdoor ice cream stand on a boardwalk, you can see other customers in there so not some place that's SO empty that it's just their family, and even the employees serving ice cream aren't in masks -- bc Florida. Best part though was they get there, Trace and Warden are standing outside with their ice cream, and Trace says his flavor is really good and invites E&C multiple times to try it. Carlin seems grossed out and says no multiple times and says 'you licked on it, I can't' -- IDK if it's pandemic related or just generally grossed out, but good. Trace goes --" just try it, it's ok, I don't have nothing . . ." and Evan proceeds to put his mouth on Trace's cone. Uh idiots we're in the middle of a pandemic. You want to go away on vacation and go to businesses that are open, not wear masks -- no one can stop you, that's up to your judgment and risk aversion. But maybe just maybe you can refrain from licking the same food? If not for yourself maybe for the fact that you have a 4 month old WITH A HEART CONDITION sleeping at the beach house and you don't strike me like the types who'll go home and wash your face and use mouth wash before you pick up and kiss the baby.

Well good luck Esther Keyes whoever you are. Nathan doesn't strike me as a particularly nice guy. I think the chip on his shoulder has grown into a boulder since Ashley dared have the nerve to turn him down. You can see it in the way he talks to his sisters or talks about women generally. I mean I think he directly told Michaela that a particular wedding dress didn't look great and then told Tori (or maybe Carlin) that she HAD to wear her hair down for her wedding bc that's what guys like and then proceeded to argue with her about it!? Even Lawson seemed "surprised" at both of those things and it's not like he doesn't have the fundie man superiority complex in him but even he said -- uh you ALWAYS tell a woman she looks beautiful and whichever dress she wants is great, what are you doing?? Hopefully she's fundie or VERY conservative christian and not particularly well to do, so she thinks Nathan is husband material. If she is fundie lite and/or more well to do like Chaney, I can see it falling apart as she (or her parents) realizes he's a douchebag. I think it'll work out though -- if I'm looking at the right Esther Keyes on social media, she appears to have 6+ siblings, has older brothers who seem like cowboy hat toting mullet wearing loser types, and lives in the middle of nowhere Pa so likely she'll be ok in Rocky Top with a family of wannabe cowboy brothers in law and a rude husband.

Interesting how quickly they start obsessing about the females in the family being feminine. Whit posted some video of the baby laughing -- the 7 mo old is wearing a freaking bracelet. We're taking a baby sized charm bracelet complete with charms hanging off of it. And Josie and Carlin always post pics of their daughters in bracelets too. These girls are all between 4-10 months old. How do they not just eat the bracelets? Let's be real this is the Bates so you know they are cheap Walmart/Target/Claire's bracelets made with who knows what chemicals and paint, yet they're ok with their kids sucking on these?? And more importantly how do they not fear one of these things breaking in their kid's mouth? All of this to make their daughters look more lady like bc let's be real at that age no one can tell a boy from a girl from a distance unless you have them in pink dresses all the time. Relax ladies -- just bc she looks like a hairless blob now like 99.99% of babies on earth doesn't mean she won't marry or have 11 kids of her own.

Not surprised re Trace's shirt, aren't him and Law both rent a cops? I know Zach is a cop too but he went to an actual police academy. IDK what Trace and Law do but they do take pics in uniform sometimes, we've never heard they went to an academy and Trace has expressed reluctance about being a cop for real as it's too scary. In that cheesy Evan and Carlin video where Law and Nathan flew them down to FL, Law falls down for some reason and when he's laying on the ground, you can see a badge on his waist. Reminded me of being on "safety patrol" in like 5th grade -- the "big kids" who'd "monitor" the hallways to make sure the 1st graders didn't run or the 2nd graders stayed on the sidewalk on the way to the playground or whatever. Kids would proudly wear their "badges" all day. Normal kids enjoy that additional responsibility and "authority" at 10, not at 27 -- where people who seek it can have real responsibility and authority say by going to a police academy or military bootcamp etc. Law has been posting non stop IG videos in the last few weeks. Started off with George Floyd, then fundie speak about all of God's children, and then drifting towards blue lives matter. Erin also posted some church service thing re praying for blue lives. Fine your views are your views but super rich for these people to have views when I imagine in their part of the country and given the isolated family only life they live, they NEVER interact with anyone but white christians. What do they know about what it's like to be black/hispanic/jewish/muslim/asian/whatever in America? They don't even know it in a cursory way as in -- oh I have a black/muslim/whatever coworker. Sure they have 2 black aunts and we've seen one of them marry her high school sweetheart -- a black man (IDK if the other is married and to who), but how much do they really interact with her and how much do they really know about their aunt and uncle's life? Michael is the only one who seems close to that aunt as she has made references before to talking to that aunt on the phone etc.

It's interesting how much these idiots go on vacation -- what are they so stressed from, given that they don't do much? Also interesting that Evan and Carlin just could NOT bear the fact that they had to miss out on a first anniversary trip bc of covid so then they just had to jump on the Bates vacation a mere 4 days later. I know the views on covid/staying home/getting on with life vary but honestly what changed in 4 days -- you could've just gone on your trip if you were going to travel 4 days later anyway. This vacation included none of the other married couples besides John and Alyssa and even they stayed the weekend, not the entire week like Evan and Carlin. I imagine Kelton and Brandon begged off when the idea was even floated citing work, but let's be real they're probably pretty happy about not having to see the inlaws for the last 2-3 mos. Bobby likely begged off when he knew bff Kelton wouldn't go. Zach probably legit had work given that he's a cop. I'm kind of surprised that Chad and Erin didn't go; no way he's busy now as pandemic + recession isn't conducive to people remodeling their kitchen + his entire work force of Jackson/Warden/Isaiah/Trace went so clearly he doesn't need them right now. Though I wouldn't be shocked if there's some $ worries right now -- how much work could Chad possibly have + they have 4 kids. While I imagine UP covers a lot of costs for these trips, given that they weren't going to restaurants etc. as much bc they aren't open fully so they're not getting product placement comped meals, I'm betting G&K would expect the married ones to chip in for groceries etc. But given the fact that none of the married couples attended and it really was a vacation for the ones living in the Bates home, the idiot couple who was crying about the child with the heart issue could easily NOT have attended if it wasn't always about THEM. I know Kelly made a big show of oh we're socially distant from other people in our own house. Yeah but on the way to the plane, E&C stop at a convenient store for snacks -- were they masked/gloved/sanitizing, IDK. Then you've got the baby in the house with like 18 other ppl including uncles who've been out in the world due to work/flight lessons -- Nathan; Law; John; and I honestly find it very hard to believe that with that many people they ALL sat home or on the beach 24-7. Trace/Law/Nathan/Warden/Isiah/Jackson really weren't going to convenient stores daily to pick up whatever soda or snack they wanted? Jeb/Jud/Callie/Alyssa's kids etc never went out to ice cream even once? Come on. I know people vary on this and many are saying move on with your life, but even the most relaxed people on this issue are STILL saying -- yeah protect young kids, those with health issues, and elderly. Ok and let's talk about the private plane that the leghumpers swoon about. OMG E&C flew with their child in the jalopy of planes with a pilot who legit was using an ipad to do the pre flight check that was telling him -- hmm ok well this model should have 3 bolts right here, let's see if they're here; ok next step check the oil -- hmm Evan grab the oil bottles from the trunk and let's fill this sucker up like we're greasing a bicycle chain . . . . I'm sorry they may be licensed but these 2 pilots do NOT seem experienced and it appears they've bought this plane built in the 1950s bc they were talking about painting it, as if that helps the safety. What exactly would they have done if said plane WAS missing a bolt or some gauge didn't seem right? That hangar looked pretty empty to me and it's rare you can get a mechanic RIGHT THAT SECOND to fix your problem. I fear they'd be like -- eh it's just one bolt and it's not that long of a flight plus FAMILY VACATION, it's fine. I love Nathan being like -- oooh the baby is a lap baby bc she's a little bitty baby. No Nathan the baby is a lap baby bc I've been in Kias that are more spacious than your plane so if you put in a car seat only one of her parents can fly with her. The leghumpers completely ignored the condition of that plane and instead were like -- oooh Nathan's phone has a pic of a girl on the screen, OMG courtship . . . . Where did this fundie pilot trend come from? Is it bc they can fly to missions and preach and give some lessons for $ so they don't have to work a 9-5? Bc I feel like they're playing with fire looking at that plane + the most experienced family pilot (Nathan). If they REALLY want to be pilots, is there something wrong with actual flight school + a job for say Delta where you work your way up in terms of planes and have constant training requirements and flight simulations that you must do? I mean perish the thought though then you do have to fly daily and be away from mommy and daddy bc Delta is paying you to fly to Spokane, but even that kind of job for a few yrs is a safer way to learn and get experienced than what the Duggars and Bates are doing.