cereality

Pairing Jana with Laura is just odd. IDK why they're doing it -- can a 28 yr old not interview alone and since she doesn't have a husband, she must be paired either with a 5yr old sister or Laura? I don't know if they get that that pairing of Jana and Laura and asking them how it is to work together and the role of forgiveness in their friendship makes them sound like a lesbian couple - perish the thought. And if these morons want to get married in places like airplane hangars that have 20 ft ceilings, I'm sorry but spend some of your TLC $$$ on a decorator John. Dumping decorating on Jana when it requires lifted platforms with ladders on top to even reach the ceiling and decorations need to be held up with chains bc streamers and rope aren't tough enough given the width of the building? I know she's not the one doing it bc there's a horde of teen/20 yr old brothers, but still. That's putting a bit more responsibility on her than her usual setting up the wedding arch/flowers/center pieces.

How did these kids turn out so grounded when they were raised by such delusional parents who act like irresponsible teenagers? Aspyn spoke the truth when she said her parents constantly think the grass is always greener and are always running to the next place bc they assume it’ll be better, when in life you have to figure out what you’re running from AND then try to stay where you are and make yourself happy there. She said what we were all thinking when Christine was touting the party line that they HAVE to move before 3 of the kids’ junior years or else they’d have to wait 5 years – and Aspyn was like – why can’t you wait 5 years? And anyone else totally baffled by Kody’s moaning about the Flagstaff rentals being SOOOO far away? One house is 8 miles from another, which is 11 miles from the 3rd. Uh – last I checked, none of the adults work so is spending 20 min/day or even an hr/day in the car in the middle of the day SUCH a big deal? I guess he could spin it as being about the kids bc they’re only available from 5-10 pm, but seriously – none of your wives work either. So why not just do a dinner rotation, where there’s a rotating nightly family dinner? Everyone who does not live in a home that’s hosting that night, drives; the kids can see each other for an hr – you can see all the kids. And then set up your wife schedule so that you DON’T stay with the wife hosting that night, so that you go home with a set of kids that weren’t the host family and bam you get extra evening time with them. Though truth be told – aside from the little kids that belong to Robyn and maybe Truly, I’m not getting the vibe that Gabe or Savannah or Ysabel or the other teens/preteens are going to care if they see Kody on Sunday and then he’s not at their home again until Thursday. I don’t know how involved he really is in their lives.

A normal person these days doesn’t have to have it figured out at 22, but a fundie who is looking to take a wife (who will be similarly uneducated and bring home no money) in 1-2 years and have the first of his many children 9 months after?? Yeah that kind of guy should be further along in his career goals than dancing for a Dixie Stampede audition one month and working for a brother in law next month. Unlike Law and Nathan, I think Trace is looking to marry soon. He has mentioned a gf/wife; his family is basically doing an infomercial for him and how great of a husband and family man he’ll be. I think he’s like Zach was – he wants to marry asap; as opposed to Law or Nathan who are ok being celibate for a while longer if it means they can travel and do what they want for a while. It’s not even the college education that’s the problem here, it’s the fact that Gil and Kelly have shortchanged their kids on K-12 – and all the networks that are built there. I know more than one person who ended up in engineering, often because they excelled in one class like shop or chemistry, physics or calculus and some teacher took notice and told them they could make a living at engineering. Each of these people had no parents or brothers or brothers in law in engineering – they didn’t know how to pursue such a thing and often weren’t even thinking about/couldn’t afford college. Yet one teacher was able to convince them to try – whether by starting in community college for pre reqs; or getting scholarships at a local u; or by getting a job and taking 1-2 courses per semester at night until they made enough money to drop the job entirely and finish school. Actually I know a few people who went into nursing that way too. Point is – the Bates have made their kids’ universe so small that there is no one except brothers and brothers in law to show them the way; and I don’t blame the bros and bros in law, I think they’re trying and they mean well but they only know the few fields they are in. So Trace will ultimately end up in whichever of his brother/brother in laws’ professions that he finds least bad – which I think for him will be construction. How sad to set up your kids’ lives so that if one of them dreams of being a dr. or a vet or whatever AND is willing to figure out loans/scholarships/jobs to put him/herself thru financially, it’ll STILL never happens because in all likelihood he/she doesn’t even have the basic chemistry and calculus you’d need to consider these roads, let alone the more complicated things like organic chem and differential equations.

Boring episode. Trace – lots of people struggle to figure out what they want to do, but interesting that he’s 22 and AFTER “college” is when he’s trying to figure it out. Don’t most people figure it out before or during college? Guess that “religious studies” or whatever degree from Crown didn’t help him much. I doubt Gil and Kelly see or want to see how much they have shortchanged him and all the kids with their ridiculous religious homeschooling led by Michaela or Erin or whoever was “teacher” for Trace. For most people if you struggle to decide what to do but you have 1-2 interests, you can pursue them and see which works out/gets you a job. For Trace and all fundies really, they can only pursue what they have seen older fundies pursue because they KNOW they have the same minimal education as those guys so if someone would hire them at x, then I can probably get hired too; if no one they know has ever pursued engineering or finance or whatever, well it’s because those heathens running the world won’t hire us so I shouldn’t even waste my time. And compared to other fundies like the Duggars, Trace is LUCKY because the guys around him have a number of occupations, all of which can make them a living. He knows a tree guy; a cop; a plumber; an electrician (in training); a fundie pilot; HVAC repair. So he KNOWS those are options and if he wants to pursue them, there are guys who can tell him how. If Zach hadn’t taken up a job at the city commissioner’s office out of high school and learned about sheriff training and pursued it, it wouldn’t be an option for any of his brothers either because I 100% believe none of them would ever have figured out that you can go into the sheriff’s office with a HS education, do reserve training and volunteer, and then move to full time and make it a profession with full benefits/insurance/pension etc. In contrast, the Duggar guys know of NO options beyond sweeping up at dad’s rental properties so they have no idea what to do with themselves – or how to pursue anything but that. Unsurprisingly they all seem to be riding the Chad horse – seems like every guy in that fam now expects Chad to hire them so they can make $$$$. Hope Chad has some amazing business generation skills bc the work he brings in is going to have to feed his own family as well as Trace and Jackson’s eventual families and likely a few of the younger bros too like Warden or Isaiah. I think right now it looks like Zach is being a better father to the younger guys than Gil – we’ve seen him be honest and realistic in directly telling them they need to plan for the future financially. Gil and Kelly seem to just take the – find a girl, get married, make babies, the Lord will provide – approach. It was interesting when Z said – go FT as a cop, you work one week on and one week off, in your off weeks, work with Chad and make $$$ -- get your financial stability as a cop and extra $ in construction BEFORE you get a girlfriend and get married. Trace asked if that’s how he and Whit planned it and Zach was very honest in saying – NO – I wish I had done it that way and talked about financial pressures that he has now with a wife and family that would’ve been easier if he was on more solid financial footing at wedding time. Way to go Gil. I don’t think you really gave Zach that fatherly advice or helped him make any plan. So the other boys (the ones who are willing to listen – so not Law and Nathan) are lucky to at least have Zach honestly telling them to make $$$ because they will need it later on. And agree with the others, Trace isn’t cut out to be a cop. He’s only 22 – an age when guys are fearless – and he mentioned a TON of times how dangerous the job is, how he doesn’t like approaching cars at traffic stops because anything can happen etc. I mean he’s not wrong and I don’t judge him, but with those fears day one – I don’t know if you can pull off a career as a cop. We never saw Zach say that kind of stuff even when he was starting out. I think he needs to pursue a trade school like his brothers in law.

Yes though I think it was on full display for him when he moved to Tenn to live in the trailer pre engagement. He didn't see it bc he didn't want to see it. He's moving to the trailer and she decides she needs to decorate but doesn't know HOW to make posters so she calls Erin to draw them and Erin's kids color them (and while he hadn't seen that that's what happened, as soon as he walked in and commented on the posters she was like -- oh yeah I can't do that, Erin drew them?!). She couldn't make his bed in the trailer, so Zach came to make the bed? If you brother -- a fundie male who is supposed to be incapable of home related tasks -- can make a bed, why can't you Ms. Housewife in Training? And then on the honeymoon, the night Bobby is cooking for her, she demonstrates that she has NO idea how to do anything in the kitchen? He grilled steaks and made green beans. If she can't grill -- that's fine, in a traditional home with Gil and 100 big brothers, I doubt any of the girls were every expected or encouraged to deal with cooking on a fire. Yet the girl couldn't handle GREEN BEANS?? He's prepped them, put them in the pan, is going out to check the steaks and asks her to watch/stir them and turn the flame down if they look done and she's all WAH IDK WHAT TO DO, HOW WILL I KNOW WHEN THEY"RE DONE???? He deals with it with minimal eyerolling (the newness of sex was pushing him thru) but she's like -- I've never seen green beans cooked that way; uh -- you don't know that vegetables are sautéed? And it still looks like she does little to NO cooking -- as Erin had to make dinner when she came to decorate. And clearly she doesn't do much in terms of keeping house. Not everyone has to be a decorator (not that Erin is either), but honestly they needed THAT much help putting Kade's room together? She couldn't make the crib bed and hang the pics with Kade's name on the wall? Even if she's never done it before -- she has 40 hrs/wk when Bobby's not home to figure it out. His parents OTOH saw that she was useless PLUS whiny and dependent on him and they have seem less than thrilled this whole time. They seemed MISERABLE when they moved him into the trailer; I assume they thought their son who they raised in a gated community and put thru college would get a first job and an apartment, not a trailer in rural Tenn. as he chased a country hick. With the engagement, when Tori did her constant "where are we going, OMG where we going, are we there, are you going to propose now, or now, or now, where's the ring, where's the ring, give me the ring" FOR HOURS, his dad seemed PISSED. At one point he goes "Tori do you understand what it means to be on a need to know basis" and of course she thought he was speaking some high falutin' Wall Street lingo and ignored him and continued begging Bobby for the ring. After the engagement, the dad again makes the comment of -- well not everyone marries into a situation where they get a few dozen inlaws -- acting like he looked down on the Bates' low class breeding methods. And even at the wedding, they didn't seem overjoyed like most parents would be. They -- esp his mom -- were NOT amused when Tori burst into giggles at the altar for a good 5 min (WTH?) and even afterwards his dad says something like -- well they're hitched.

Chad says - don't break it. Cue Law handing heavy tools to Callie and Bradley or Carson, and Carson picks up some huge drill and slams it back down on the asphalt parking lot bc it's too heavy and Callie struggles holding on to her tool and puts it down a million times and barely gets it up the stairs. Uh yeah -- I don't think this is what Chad meant Erin. You couldn't unload them yourself or tell Law to do it himself and not give them to the little kids to slam around??

I realize that Erin thinks that she and Chad will be the next Chip and Joanna Gaines from HGTV, but I don’t think her style is all that – it just looks hodge podge. Spray painted black squares on a wall of a baby’s room?? Why?? Why would you use black anything for a baby, and why squares – just so they can compliment the square sign of Kade’s name? And it’s a rental apartment, they likely won’t live in it forever; hope those things peel off without damage, or else Chad will have to haul ass to Nashville to paint for them or they’re going to get charged a few hundred on the move-out. And then putting in child sized chairs for an infant, who isn’t going to walk or sit in chairs for quite a long time? And then bicycle book ends with law books/fake encyclopedias in them? Is she birthing a 50 year old man? And these people are newlyweds with minimal money and they need a guest bedroom but bc they don’t have an extra room for that, that must be in their kid’s room? If it was just Lawson, whatever, but there was clearly a bed and then another pull out mattress under the bed. I mean of course, when Kelly pawns off the little girls or Jeb and Jud or whoever for the week in the name of sisterly bonding, they’re going to need some place to sleep. Hope Bobby meant it when he said that others (namely his parents – bc they’ve said it) think having so many inlaws would be overwhelming, but he loves it. Though you know – the vibe I got from Bobby is that he isn’t head over heels for Tori (though I’m not getting that he hates her either, just that he’s more annoyed by her now than during the sweet courting phase), but that he’s VERY excited for Kade and does seem to like his brothers/sisters in law. When he walked in the door, we saw him look pretty happy to see everyone – he greeted Lawson in a very comfortable/friend/bro way (he’s probably gotten to know him well since he’s living with them PT) and then was talking to Callie/calling her sweetie. I think he was a fundie man who married ASAP because he REALLY desired a family ASAP. I think a lot of the ministry types are like that. They obviously marry young to have sex (check) but also they feel that in order to be an effective minster, counsel people on how to raise their families in faith, they too MUST have families to be taken seriously. Easy intro since Kelton could introduce her to one of Josie’s 50 sisters, Tori liked him, he was ok with her, she wanted to marry asap like him – BAM – done deal. And I’ve said it before – Chad and Erin’s marriage is like a lifelong second date, where you don’t know each other well so one party can’t read the other party at all and the other party wants to be polite and not saying what they’re thinking. Erin must be (willfully) blind not to see how much her 31 yr old husband had aged and is an OLD 31. I mean how does she not notice that Zach, John, and Brandon are about Chad’s age – all have jobs, and NONE of them look that old or stressed ever, let alone ALL THE TIME. But honestly does Chad have no balls or no voice? He honestly can’t say to his wife – no, I’m not making your sister a headboard, I don’t have the time or energy? Have one blowout fight about it – it will show her her headship means business; tell her sorry – she’s the one who has to go back to her sister and say no but she should know better to stop volunteering him ALL THE TIME. Or better yet – tell her you’ve been trying to launch a furniture business for years but between your daily business + helping taking care of the kids (which fundie men are NOT expected to do but Kelly raised such winners that they whine even though they are home 40 hrs a week so Chad comes home and takes care of kids, does laundry, feeds the damn goats; not saying a dad shouldn’t do these things but in fundie culture that is 100% the woman’s job and if she can’t take of just 3 kids and do some laundry daily, WTH kind of fundie wife is she), you have no time. Then tell her you are HAPPY to SELL her sister a headboard for $200 or $500 or whatever those kinds of handcrafted headboards go for. Then he actually gets something out of doing all this work and it’s side income. And citing more evidence that Kelly has done an AWESOME job raising housewives – Tori let it slip that ERIN cooked dinner while decorating. It was a (taco?) casserole so I’m guessing Erin put it together early in the day and then told Tori when to pop it in the oven, and it looks like Tori was in the kitchen setting out bowls of cheese, lettuce etc. so I guess she helped. But honestly Kelly if your daughters’ purpose is to serve their man and their family – teach them to cook 5 meals before moving out.

I agree with the posters above who say that Chad seems different. I think he is over it — his wife, his grifting inlaws, his loud sisters in law, all of it. He’d never locate his balls and demand a move back to Okla because it would be too obvious that he was doing it to say — I’m over YOUR family, time for my fam now. But I wish he’d demand a move to someplace close like Nashville. He’s the sole breadwinner, what’s she gonna do if he determines that as Carlin said, there’s much more construction industry there than here?? Sure it’ll put him in range of his screaming sisters in law in Nashville, but he can draw some lines before moving (and actually hold those lines) that Erin can see her sisters and nieces/nephews as much as she wants all week long but he won’t participate in an activity with them more than 1x/month and won’t be doing projects for them. They’ve been married for what 6-7 yrs?? Do fundie couples have to live as a polite couple on a second date for the rest of their lives? Bc 6 yrs into a marriage, most spouses (even those from arranged marriage cultures where you hardly know each other when you get married) are VERY comfortable with each other. Comfortable enough to say — ha — no way I’m building your sister a house with windows and electrical to hang a chandelier so she can get married in it, you guys need to find a contractor w free time to take on that job, I have no time and can’t take time away from paying gigs for that since you know those put food on OUR table. I feel like Zach and Whit would have zero problems having this convo and maybe John/Alyssa as well; the rest of the husbands are smiling doofuses who apparently will resentfully go along with what a wife wants rather than opening their mouths. And btw Michael has said she’d adopt. I assume this comes from her true love of kids plus being close with at least one (or maybe both) of Kelly’s adopted sisters. We saw her at her aunts wedding and by the way they spoke you could tell they know each other well, talk off camera frequently etc. Plus IIRC that aunt is African American as is her husband. Michael - unlike the rest of these people - I think genuinely would not have a problem with a black or Asian baby; often you have to be open to that in adoption as white babies are very hard to come by in private adoption and sometimes the fees etc make that a non starter. Michael - unlike most fundies - I think genuinely believes that everyone is Gods child, deserves love etc. Brandon OTOH is likely the hold up. He’s fundie thru and thru and is likely saying no to adoption bc as we’ve seen, he’s ok without kids and he’d probably rather not have kids than (heaven forbid for fundies) have a baby of a different race.

Had missed the last few episodes so caught up on a few tonight. Thoughts — Way to go on the wife training Kelly as yet another one of your daughters tells her husband she doesn’t know how to cook anything. They’re put on this earth to service their men and kids and you can’t make sure they walk out of your home knowing how to make 5 meals? Josie raved about how Kelton makes the best breakfasts but I have a feeling he can cook at least a handful of things. He grew up the oldest child in a single working dad home plus he went off to college where he and Bobby shared an apartment. I’m sure he and Bobby were eating a lot of hot pockets and chipotle, but I imagine they figured out how to grill an occasional steak or burger or boil some pasta; in fact we saw Bobby make steaks and green beans for clueless Tori on their honeymoon. Interesting that when Alyssa visits and they take all the grandkids to play, Brandon and Michael come as well. Brandon seemed fine - looked like he was having a good time, taking pics of the kids, fairly animated telling Kelly about his book. Michael OTOH was cuddling someone’s infant but looking and acting like her heart was breaking. I’m no fan of Kelly but to give her credit, she DID ask how Michael was and what was new and didn’t imply that nothing could be new since she has no kids. Michael was the one who diminished her own self saying - I’m making blankets, running the online store and that’s about it. I can only imagine her self esteem right now; she probably views herself as worthless as a fundie woman who hasn’t made a baby. Though interesting when Kelly asked Michael if they’d consider moving to Knox, Michael said the right words but her reaction said OH HELL NO. Can’t say I blame her. A daughter with no kids would likely be expected to spend all day at the house cooking for Kelly’s brood, chasing Jeb and Jud, and constantly being available to help Erin and Whit with their kids. And while I know she loves babies, I think it’s one thing to cuddle a niece for 2 days when she visits once in 3 months, but being around family babies daily could push her off the edge as she contemplates why it happened for her sisters but not her. Chad continues to look like oldest 31 year old ever. Despite his fake laugh and agreement re how quick the project will be, he did NOT seem amused at being volunteered to build some kind of stage set for Carlin’s wedding that involves windows and chandeliers. And when Erin was gushing about how she soaks in the time she spends with Addie, Ellie, Callie bc soon they’ll be married and living in different states, normally agreeable and family minded Chad barely looked up or had any expression. He looks EXHAUSTED - which he probably is by a manual labor business and the financial stresses of a family of 5. Too bad the wife is too self absorbed to notice. And LOL at Nathan for saying — girls want to date James Bond, they don’t want to marry him, they want to marry stable family men like Chad, John, Zach, and Trace. Nice of him to put in a plug for his bro who may be wife hunting, but LOL he thinks he and Law aren’t married bc they’re off living James Bond’s life?? I mean Law’s been trying to make it in Nashville for 5+ yrs, and while Nathan has some more skills with flying planes and helicopters — come on — having something to do all day doesn’t make you James Bond.

I have always felt bad for Brandon and Michael but I have also always wondered if they aren’t on the same page? We can all see that Michael desperately wants a child – probably many children but at this point I think she’d feel blessed to just have 1 to love and raise; and unlike Erin I think she wants kids bc of a deep love of kids, not just bc she needs to fulfill her Godly duty on earth while producing the perfect Instagram pics daily of cute kids like Erin. Brandon – I think he likes kids a lot too and likely does want some, but IDK if he NEEDS a kid. Seems like if he didn’t have kids, he’d be ok being Uncle Brandon to the thousands of Bates and Keilen younger inlaw/nieces/nephews and if somehow that role wasn’t enough (like say if they stay in Chicago long term and he only gets to be Uncle Brandon once every month or 2), then I could see him taking on some kid related role thru church like Sunday school for little kids. I think he’d have a perfectly fulfilled life – waking up; saying the required sweet things to his wife; eating the breakfast she made; going off to work; coming home; saying more required sweet things; eating his wife’s dinner; drawing or reading after dinner until bedtime when he will have sex with his wife as scheduled 1x/week or 1x/month or whatever. OTOH I can see Michael spiraling into depression if it continues like this for life and she has no child of her own. But I will say – I think Michael took the fundie training WAY MORE TO HEART than her sisters. Erin, Alyssa, Tori, Josie and Carlin all have their men wrapped around their fingers – much like Kelly; they all get their way whether by being loud and shrill (Tori/Carlin) or weepy (Erin) or just point blank demanding (Alyssa/Josie). I mean Erin was a 24-7 emotional mess before Carson – and likely in her own “subtle” Kelly-esque way was demanding to Chad that they would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to have babies. Chad was dancing to Erin’s tune to make sure she was happy. Luckily they only needed the Heparin, but I have ZERO doubt that if they needed something more like IVF, God would have laid it on Chad’s heart instantly that IVF is 100% allowed and to go for it. OTOH – Michael plays the traditional fundie wife role where she defers to her headship. In her case, her headship doesn’t agree or disagree – he thinks kids would be nice, but if not, eh it’s ok. He doesn’t see (or doesn’t want to see) her pain and instead tells her – in God’s time, pray harder etc. And she being fundie – unlike Erin – can’t seem to bear to put her foot down and say – if we aren’t pregnant in 6 mos, that’s it, we are going to the dr. and asking for conception to be done outside the body; that’s likely doable if they’re telling the truth and her eggs and his sperm are fine but are having trouble meeting naturally due to blockages etc. Beyond the physical issues, I think their fertility issues may be dragging on and on bc they don’t act like a married couple, they act like they are polite strangers on a second date who can’t say directly what they want.

Jackson is FIFTEEN?? So IRL he’d be a sophomore or junior in high school?? I would never have guessed that because he comes across like an 11 or 12 year old sixth grader in behavior and in looks. I mean IRL, even at the lowly public schools that he was criticizing because they’d have him waking up at 6 am – a sophomore would not be the kid telling you that 2x10 = 20. A sophomore would be in advanced algebra/precalc if he was an advanced kind of kid or even just basic algebra if he wasn’t an academic star. An elementary schooler is the one who’d be doing simple multiplication with you. But JB and Michelle ain’t into book learnin’ so whatever. But how could they not notice that something may be off with him physically? I mean maybe he’s fine – lots of boys are small, late bloomers etc. But this isn’t exactly their first son. He’s got like 10 older bros – all of whom looked like teen boys/young men by 15 and then started looking like tubby 35 year old men by age 18-20. This isn’t exactly a family where late puberty is an issue. I mean maybe he’s just destined to be short – but there are shorter guys in the family too – Josiah; some combo of Jason/James/Justin (can’t tell them apart) – even they didn’t look like little boys a year or two ago when they were Jackson’s age. You’d think a drs. visit would be in order just to make sure everything is fine and he’s just a late bloomer. But then JB and Michelle don’t believe in drs. esp for something that doesn’t involve birthing; probably don’t want to pay the copay esp for an issue with a boy – I mean it’s not like it’s a girl who heaven forbid may not be able to have children in a few years; and likely wouldn’t allow an exam anyway bc a guy’s exam when it comes to puberty involves looking . . . down below . . . . I do wonder if there’s some malnutrition at play with him. From what we’ve seen this family fends for itself. We’ve seen JB eating cold vegetables straight out of the can; kids mixing oatmeal packets into cold water etc. The vast majority of the family cooks are married off, and while Jana and Johannah are still around – with way fewer people in the house, I bet Jana is taking the foot of the gas with the housework. Maybe they just make dinner for the family nightly but that’s it. It’s possible what you do for breakfast or lunch is up to you – or up to the whims of the mother of the year if once a week she wants to make brunch or something. I can see an immature kid like Jackson and the ones younger than him struggling with that kind of set up – not knowing what to eat, just snacking on whatever all day, until he gets his heaping helping of TTC at night. It may be really obvious on him though bc he’s a boy and teen boys need to consume a TON of calories when they are in growth spurts to put on adult height; the rest of the younger ones are girls and it doesn’t much matter if they’re malnourished bc JB and Michelle want them cute and petite for marriage purposes. His older bros are no longer subject to this because all of them have “graduated” high school and are “working” – which means they’re out of the house for some part of the day and presumably JB pays them something, so I’m guessing there’s a lot of burgers and subs being bought daily. Yet Jackson at home by himself with all girls just may not be getting enough calories – I mean it’s not like his parents would notice.

Pretty standard wedding episode. I was just reminded of how young Bobby and Kelton are. Bobby referenced college like 8 times in that speech — being roommates, how they had rivalries in sports etc. I mean I get that lots of people get married right out of college esp down south but it is clear they haven’t lived much life post college yet and they’re just rushing to grow up (i.e. hook up). In Bobby’s defense he said that Kelton said that losing Josie “hurt as bad as anything has ever hurt” — so he didn’t say it was the worst thing ever. I got the point that it showed that Kelton was SUCH a good guy that he still was happy for Bobby and Tori but yeah awkward to mention a parent required break up — and then cut away to the groom looking somber and Gil looking sheepish. Heart breaking to see how Kelton cried when his dad walked down the aisle. He said he’d been emotional all day and then lost it when he saw his dad walking alone. Bobby was great sitting his down in the guest chairs for a minute and consoling him, knowing Kelton had to go up there and was obviously thinking about his mom. Even when Josie walked down the aisle, I’m sure some of it was — I’m the luckiest guy in the world tears — but a lot of it looked like all the emotion from earlier. He’s usually a grinning ear to ear kind of guy who didn’t even crack a smile during any part of the vows and just looked somber. Poor kid (bc a kid is what he is despite being someone’s husband). I honestly wish he and Josie had waited on pregnancy. Can he really handle it??

I mean I’m not at all surprised because if a 23 yr old and 19 yr old have unprotected sex nightly, of course they’re going to get pregnant ASAP. I mean this was a honeymoon or within the first weeks of marriage baby. They’re both kool aid drinkers so of course they wanted a family asap - and now their kid grows up with Bobby’s kid. Their friendship seems so tight that I bet Bobby and Tori having a baby before their first anniversary reinforced to Kelton that that’s the way to do it. I guess Kelton isn’t freaked out by his wife birthing a child?? I mean he was only 13 when his mom had his sister - it’s only been 10 yrs. Normal people would put off the childbearing decision given the trauma he’s faced since he knows his 19 year old wife has years to produce kids; normal guys would put it off and then around 30 agree to 1-2 kids delivered in a very controlled health system setting. But I bet it’s different for fundies, which he is. They believe this is a woman’s greatest calling and who are they to say no?!

So can someone tell what JD’s and Abby’s courting standards were? Walked away during that part. They seem physically closer than any other couple so I’m guessing they said hand holding and hugs were ok the whole time but not kissing (that they’ll admit to)? He looks elated to be with her — is it possible that he looks younger and “hotter”? Not truly hot but hot for an average balding pudgy guy. Maybe it’s just his happiness makes him look better? She has the most deadpan manner of speaking . . . but they’re both socially awkward together so it works.

What Kelly wants, Kelly gets by any means necessary including guilt. She’s always depended on her older daughters to raise the younger kids, though she’s not entirely checked out like Michelle Duggar. But still she went from having 6 older daughters to watch and entertain Jeb, Jud and Callie to just Katie. Carlin’s pretty much out as she’ll be married in 3 mos. I imagine Addy (or Ellie?) is 12-13ish now and has to step up. And in that house it’s not gender role rigid as the Duggars so I imagine Law, Nathan, Trace, Jackson, Isiah and Warden help if they’re around. But my strong sense is that the guys are welcome to come and go as they please and their help isn’t “required” as it was from the girls. So yeah I bet Kelly is looking to pawn off the 3 younger kids to Erin or Josie when she can - I doubt she cares if Josie is interested or not.

Haven’t watched this season that closely but random thoughts: The Evan and Carlin engagement was like the Bachelor, where they nervously rode in the limo to the engagement. I don’t get the point. I know a lot of regular couples get engaged on trips, but for people I know in real life – they didn’t 100% know they’d get engaged on the trip, nor did they know what day, etc. I realize it’s not that easy for the fundies bc if you are taking your first and only vacation ever with your gf and you’re bringing her and your parents and the trip is 2 days and engagement hasn’t happened for 1.85 days and you’re leaving in 3 hrs, well you know what happens next . . . . But the way he was saying that it was only fair that she be nervous in the limo bc he was nervous, I was like – damn – screw the family and ask her now, in the limo. Shun the tacky set up her sister and mother came up with it. So what if it isn’t how she dreams with you “dancing” with her – most people WANT to live in real life, not in the fantasy they came up with at 5 years old. Evan has kind of grown on me. He doesn’t seem as loud or shrill as he did when he first appeared and in talking pre engagement with his brothers, he seemed like a planner/thoughtful. Maybe this is how he really is? I can see her tiring of Carlin, like Bobby has tired of Tori. Carlin – while loud, shrill and not my favorite – is at least always nice to Evan. In contrast – see Tori. WTF is up with that girl?? She is just downright rude to Bobby and Bobby seems over it. When Evan comes in and sings his little ditty and presents Carlin with the $29 suitcase, Tori is SCREAMING how it was the best suprirse ever, even in her TH with Bobby. Bobby looks annoyed and sarcastically says “way to go Evan.” Reality is Bobby proposed to you not even a year ago, made you the center of attention, whisking you away in front of your whole class, driving you to Ashville or wherever with you asking every 7 seconds for the ring. And now merely one year later, it’s all forgotten and what your sister got 2 seconds ago is better?? To say nothing of her at the ultrasound place screaming about how the baby MUST have hair but he may not bc Bobby was bald. Bobby after a while seemed PISSED. At one point Bobby even said – I think I was an adorable baby but apparently an adorable baby can’t be bald. When she screamed the same thing to the receptionist, even tactless Kelly said “TORI! Sorry Bobby we tried to teach her tact” as Bobby said – “it didn’t stick, it wasn’t sticky tact . . . .” Gotta love fundies. They are SOOOO sure they’ve raised their kids to be Godly that they must constantly obsess about their kids getting it on. I mean Kelly needed to tell her 23-24 yr old soon to be son in law that the only reason he’s allowed on a bike ride with his soon to be fiancé is bc there are people on the street who can chaperone them? And then when Evan and Carlin are 10 min late, his dad jokingly goes – maybe they ran off and got married?! Uh – your son is 10 min late and you’re really wondering whether he can keep it in his pants??? I guess Apple is now a sponsor? As we were treated to multiple scenes of Gil saying “Siri call Carlin” “Siri call Evan.” Interesting that Kelton keeps mentioning he wants a small apartment, on budget. He makes good money and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Sounds like he’ll treat Josie well – i.e. he’d be ok even in a trailer but he wants her to have what she wants and ultimately he was leaning towards the 2 bed even though it’s bigger that what they sought bc she loved it (though I thought she wanted to avoid sibling sleepovers?! Not gonna happen w a 2 bed Josie) and it’s close to her work. But it also sounds like they’ll live well bc he’s not going to be wasting $$ -- he may be considering 1-2 yrs in a reasonable apt until he has a down payment ready to go.

Oh totally agree it’s an Evan decision. Mother and daughter aren’t even subtle about these things. When he went to South Carolina w them earlier this yr — Kelly was screaming in her shrill voice — Evan buddy the beach is a great place to propose. Same thing she did with Bobby, Brandon etc — clearly announce the desperation. And girlfriend was no better — announcing she had switched from regular college to online classes like a year ago so she could finish school and get married faster. A normal woman would’ve been pissed to leave school a year early and then it turns out you’re not getting married for 1.5 yrs anyway. But fundies that what they’re supposed to do - sit around waiting for the wedding night. I imagine the delay is bc it suddenly occurred to Evan that he’d have to provide and being a lifetime receptionist wouldn’t cut it. He hurriedly took up electrician training but sometimes trade school plus apprenticeship can take 1+ yr before you get a real paying job. Guess Carlin has to wait . . . .

So Carlin and Evan aren’t getting married until May 25 2019? How incredibly slow and “normal” of them? He says he fell in love with her in Sept 2016. So courting in the spring of 2017. Engaged in the fall of 2018 and married 6-7 months later? How normal?! Wonder why Carlin and Kelly haven’t been able to hurry this along.

WTH did they get this pastor -- not Abby's dad -- but he first guy?? Dorky jokes about how they'd shake hands at the end etc. The remote control plane/drone to fly in her ring was dumb though at least it was quick and not a prank that dragged on. Actually IDK if it's editing but the entire wedding/vows seemed quick, which is very unlike the Duggars. The vows were meh. Way too long. Interesting how his specifically mentioned being faithful and keeping his eyes only for her -- seems like it was a way to say "I'm NOT Josh." Hers were the typical fundie spelling out promises that don't need to be said -- I'll take your name; I'll live where you live. Uh yeah you're fundie, we know. That kiss was a bit much -- one kiss on the hand + the main event would've been enough. I know he was feeling it that day knowing he was like an hr away from being able to get it on, but IDK that kissing all over the body was necessary. WTH is up with Austin. He looks MISERABLE. Weddings are a happy occasion. Even if you're not super close to a couple, most people attending a wedding still feel some happiness just seeing someone else's dream come true. Austin looks downright pissed. Regretting his own marriage? Fight with Joy 2 min before the ceremony??

JD looks so genuinely happy. Kind of surprised that their courtship standards included no hand holding and no kissing bc they look really physically comfortable with each other. Being in love seems to make JD look several years younger -- and for that matter it looks like marriage suits Joe as well. And for once we don't have a fundie saying -- what I'm looking forward to most is the first kiss, hardy har har. JD actually said he was waiting to see Abby walk down the aisle and Abby said she was looking forward to walking to JD up the aisle and then the two of them flying away. Wonder if it was hot in the church - JD looks thrilled and not nervous up there yet light appears to be bouncing off his forehead; wonder if he was sweaty or maybe just needed a touch of make up. The shot of them standing at the altar right before Abby walked up showed Joe looking almost "proudly" at JD and checking out the groom's expression and Jana smiling but IDK she looks a touch sad to me. She looked a touch sad in the TH earlier too when she said she wondered if he'd ever marry -- I have to imagine she is saying that about him bc she has also thought that about herself at some point. It was her and her twin together and now she's left behind as he moves onto "normal" "adult" life.

Robert Ellis Smith IV has arrived on 11/9. Bit early no, they seemed to suggest a Thanksgiving baby? Tori has fulfilled her purpose - in under 11 mos of marriage. There's got to be fundie envy -- some want to vacation on a first anniversary, Tori got to push out a kid and breastfeed - praise the Lord!

Is there something about sex that makes people – esp males of the fundie persuasion – look younger? Is it just the glow and happiness? Was looking at some of their pics and Kelton is already young looking, but in some of his honeymoon pics he seriously looks like a high school sophomore. This has been true for even for ugly, pudgy, balding fundie men – like Joe Duggar – on their honeymoon, they suddenly looked younger! Then of course they return to normal life and go back to their usual selves or even if they were good looking before, they start aging in dog years (i.e. Chad) as they use their minimal employability to provide for the 37 kids that they must receive yearly as the lord’s blessings. How nice would it be if Kelton and Josie came back to Knox, and just enjoyed married life for 5 years – work; travel as much as possible on any whim that strikes; sleeping in on weekends; hiking/biking/whatever hobbies AND then considered children and had a normal number of them like 1-4 and called it quits. This is totally doable since they married SO young – 5 yrs from now they’d still only be 24 and 27, which are still easy child bearing ages. But who are we kidding, every time I’ve wished that some fundie would find some normalcy, I’ve been disappointed. And while he appears normal, Kelton is fundie thru and thru – of the homeschooled with pamphlets followed by unaccredited Christian college variety. It’s quite possible that Josie is already pregnant or will be in the next 2 mos like most of her sisters have been. And while Josie acts like Alyssa – too good for the life and family she was born into – Alyssa still walks the walk with a yearly pregnancy and I can’t imagine Josie being too different.

I assume Knoxville, no? It's where Kelton's uncle's plumbing business is and also where they both grew up? Maybe they're having thoughts of Nashville bc of bff Bobby, but IDK that may not be immediately upon marriage.

Kelton and Josie look great and have always seemed very much like they adore each other; we know from the show they are emotionally close, but can see their physical connection too. TMI but they're one of the rare fundie couples where I bet the wedding night/honeymoon wasn't THAT awkward bc they seem to have chemistry, as opposed to other fundies who were practically doing it with a near stranger. I'm sure this is just my exhaustion speaking but I'm kinda jealous. She's 19, has a man for life, who will provide for her financially, her life is set and they will live the traditional path -- kids; going to the grandparents' homes all the time etc.; Josie will be done working in a hot second or will drop down to super part time/doing hair for fundie brides or giving haircuts at home or something; cheesy family outings with her, Kelton, and their kids. IDK -- it seems tempting when you're 30 something, did all the "right" things with ivy league degrees etc. and your life is work, deadlines, bills, 401ks, and NYC hecticness. But then again if she's pregnant in 2 months or 2 years or anytime before age 25 (which she mostly certainly will be), I will most certainly NOT be jealous because they will not have taken the time to just be themselves, get to know each other, travel, and really take advantage of starting a marriage so young. I don't see them using BC. I mean MAYBE - if Kelton (understandably) is scarred by what happened to his mother and in that case only agrees to 2 children delivered in a super controlled environment like a hospital c-section done by the best MD at the top health system in Tennessee; that's how I think many normal people would feel after what he/his family went thru. Yet IDK he and his family ARE fundie -- so it very much could be a "trust in God" and pray about it thing. While they act/dress normal, have jobs, don't talk 24-7 about getting to kiss -- as opposed to Duggar weddings -- the Balkas are fundie. He and his siblings were homeschooled used one of those booklet curriculums(a)? He went to PCC bc that was his mom's alma mater and it seems like the college age siblings are/will be going there. So they may end up like John and Alyssa where Alyssa says, she doesn't want a ton of kids; says 6 max etc.; John does the "right" thing by saying -- I want however many you want. And yet they STILL have a kid per year for the first few years of marriage suggesting that those kind of "limits" are all talk and no one is doing anything like taking a pill, putting on a condom, or even rhythm or pulling out.

They haven’t announced yet but given the late Sept engagement, my bet is a 3 mo engagement which makes it a Christmas wedding. This family doesn’t wait. IDK too many people who want to get married in Jan/Feb (though these people would get hitched on a random Tuesday in Jan if it meant getting it on that day), so the next “popular” wedding time ends up being spring. No way Carlin can wait another 6 months. They seem to like Christmas weddings. Zach and Tori both did that. I also think they’re on a budget and Christmas time is cheaper — vendors/caterers aren’t particularly busy after the early Dec business holiday party rush ends (which may not even be significant in BFE), I bet you can get some good discounts.