atlanticslide

It's not that people have no manners anymore; it's that different people have different beliefs about what constitutes "good manners". To me and in my general experience where I grew up and where I live, covering your mouth with a napkin and spitting food into it when you can't eat it is good manners.

I'm sorry, I think this is utterly ridiculous. She wasn't in uniform at the time, she wasn't overseas at the time, she wasn't in a situation in which spitting food out should have any more dire consequences than some people talking about it online. She may have been in the military but that doesn't mean the military should dictate all aspects of her life forever; she's a human being. Human beings occasionally act outside of the utmost standards of conduct, and this particular one is up for some debate. While you may think that spitting food into a napkin is a huge faux pas, I think turning away, putting a napkin over your mouth, and spitting the food into it in a way that no one will actually be able to see is perfectly polite. To be honest, I find the idea that she can't ever step a toe out of line even in the most mild action just because she once donned a military uniform rather offensive.

Ben was on Juliet Littman's podcast this week and she asked him about that conversation (among other things - definitely check it out, it was a fun interview). She asked if Olivia really sat down and went right into her cankles, or if she asked him at all about what was going on with him, and he said that he can't really remember exactly how the conversation went, just that he was really confused about why she was talking about her cankles. So my guess is that the way that scene was edited really was an accurate representation of the conversation and how ridiculous it was. As for the spitting out food scene, I'm surprised that no one else saw the bit with Ben telling her to "do your thing" - maybe it's because I watched the episode online a few days later, but that was in the version of the episode I saw. I thought it was no big deal - sometimes you taste something that you really can't handle even trying to choke down, and she spit it rather discretely into a napkin, not across the room onto the floor.

We never actually saw it happen, but that's what's implied, yeah - it was revealed at the end of the final episode last season in a flashback with German standing at the railing looking down at Olivia's body on the floor, and fingernail marks in the railing in front of him. I think it was a good move making him the killer - he was dull as dirt until that reveal. On the flip side, I liked Derek as a generally nice guy who behaved kind of badly, did coke, owned a nightclub, partied, etc - what you'd expect from a rich professional athlete - and I'm kind of finding him more boring already now that he's cleaning up his act ~for love~ or whatever. I'm so, so happy to have this silly, soapy show back. It's cheesy and the writing is a little sketchy and the acting really comes and goes, but I really love it, cheesiness and occasionally bad writing/acting and all. This episode did feel a bit like filler, getting things set up for the new season, but after being off the air for more than a year, I'm cool with them just catching up with the characters and setting the stage for what's going to come next. Ahsha going on about rigging the All Star vote as if it was the Biggest! Secret! EVER! was hilarious, and yeah, until you go start trying out for other teams, it really doesn't matter if you're banned from the league or not.

Susie was such a disappointment. I remember really liking her and thinking she seemed sweet and fun during her RR season, thought she got a bad rap from Kina (also a serious asshole) during Gauntlet II, and was happy to see her back on Gauntlet III. And then, man, what a turn for assholishness she took that season. Such a snake and so full of herself.

Yeah, I keep thinking the same (especially as I recently rewatched some clips from the Sydney RW season). Something just looks odd - she doesn't just look older, she looks a bit off. I keep thinking it's that she's SO so so skinny. I also think a lot of what she does - her facial expressions, the way she carries herself, the way she speaks to the camera - is done with a lot of affectation, like she's overly aware of how she might appear on camera, so much so that it makes her appear odd and off.

Such a weird episode. On the one hand, I also am having trouble believing this was all 100% real - it all just felt a bit too easy, too convenient, to perfect for TV. CM would know that Abe would see all of this eventually, so why be so blatant about the flirtation? Johnny was so, so ridiculously obvious about his machinations, so why would the rest of these guys - especially Abe, who hates Johnny and immediate cottoned on to what Vince was doing - play right into what Johnny wants? On the other hand, whatever, I was entertained. I have no idea if it was real or if CM and Abe went in there with a plan, I have no idea if their relationship is abusive or if Abe is abusive or if CM is plays the victim or whatever else. That one conversation, though was definitely creepy. Abe was handling it pretty well, especially when he calmly asked "why would you do something that you know would upset me?" but then immediately following that up with "so now what you're going to do is vote Thomas in tomorrow" was creepy and uncomfortable as hell. All of that said, I enjoyed the hell out of the Pit and Abe going nuts throughout, as well as the group of them all laughing afterwards about the ridiculous stuff he shouted. There are times that I want to like him, when it seems like he's pretty self aware and knows what he's doing and like this is all an act that he can turn on and off. But then there are times when he's just too bizarre, too crazy, too creepy in his behavior towards other people. But the Pit was so entertaining, and I loved how expert Mike was at it - I love how bizarrely mismatched Mike and Abe are as brothers, how completely calm and normal and mild-mannered Mike seems - as well as Thomas's (I think? I can't remember which twin is which) resigned commentary on his brother's poor performance, and Jenna's "see? Noodle arms." As for the CT comparisons, CT was definitely pretty nuts in a scary way his first few years on TRW and the Challenge, but I think he really has calmed down a lot over the last few years. The Adam fight was years ago, punching Davis was years ago, and those were certainly inexcusable events, but at judging at least from what we've seen on TV (because who knows what any of these people are actually like in their non-TV lives), it seems like he's come a long way from the mindlessly violent guy he was earlier on.

I agree. Him yelling into her voice so pointedly like that was seriously creepy and had shades of domestic abuse to me, but I don't blame him for being mad. I would be beside myself with anger if my significant other guilt-tripped me into turning down a great job and then turned around and took a great job themselves. That said, Brandon's an idiot for even turning down the Boston (was it Boston?) job to begin with, so he does hold a good bit of responsibility for that situation himself. He could've stood up for himself more, talked to Susan about why she was so insecure about him taking that job, worked out a compromise, but he just gave it up like a doof.

Yeah, I found all of that pretty strange, including the fact that Annalise would entertain the idea of helping this woman kill herself. Refusing treatment isn't the same as being able to end your life when you want when you have a terminal illness and I can understand the desire to do so, but I'd think the first step would be to stop treatment and check yourself out of the hospital. She went on this big speech about how "this isn't a life," so why is she going through it?

I'm getting the distinct feeling that Oliver may not be long for this world. There's just been too much "Connor is a changed man due to Oliver's love!" that makes me think they're building up to a something tragic.

No, definitely not - Asher wasn't involved in that and as far as we know he still doesn't know anything about Sam's murder. Plus, they cut up and disposed of Sam's body in Philly (or the surrounding area somewhere). My guess is that it's something from Asher's past that the DA has on him that will be revealed later.

"Juelia has a daughter at home." Yes, yes, we know.

I actually Nomi to be overall the least interesting of the group. I warmed up to her over the course of the season, but I agree with others that she didn't have a whole lot going on in the beginning. Right off the bat in the first few episodes, every other character has their own storyline going on and we can get a sense of who they are. We're dropped in the middle of things - Kala is about to marry someone she doesn't love, Lito is hiding his homosexuality for his career, Riley is mixed up with some shady drug dealers, Will is trying to be a good cop and juggling his morals with the cops vs. gangs culture of Chicago, Capheus is trying to kickstart his business and care for his ailing mother, Sun is struggling to have her voice in her family's business especially as things go south, Wolfgang is stealing diamonds and is in a conflict with his cousin, Nomi is... chilling with her girlfriend. Everything about her for the first couple of episodes is exposition. And while I have a pretty good sense of the individual personalities for the others, Nomi is just kind of a blank slate - she's nice and she's brave and she's nerdy and that's kind of it. I also just don't care for Nomi/Amanita. I think part of it is that I actually found Jamie Clayton to be the weakest actress of the bunch and didn't think she and Freema Agyeman had much chemistry. There were moments that I loved them - pretty much everything with Amanita breaking Nomi out of the hospital and later on when Nomi escaped the cops at Amanita's mother's house, I could totally see them as a couple fiercely in love and loyal to one another - but most of the rest of the time their relationship felt over the top and inauthentic. Just too perfect, too cutesy - the whole episode in which they decide to break into Metzger's apartment, between "what would Nacy Drew Do" and "we could totally be a crime-fighting duo!" it felt like bad fanfiction to me. Nomi on her own I mostly liked, and I liked her scenes with the other Sense8s, but in general she was the least interesting to me and the Nomi/Amanita relationship kind of dragged her down.

Okay, I'm officially over this storyline. I was on Juelia's side in all of this but I'm really over her and really over her repeating the same story over and over again. You went on one date with the guy. You knew him for less than a week. Get the fuck over it already. I'm really tired of her being spoken to and about like she's a martyred saint.

Dammit. I kinda like JJ. How did this happen? He was just so calm and articulate and made Joe look like such a fool, it was a thing of beauty. "Nyah nyah nyah!" "My little brother does things like that." "Well... I've got a little sister! And she's smarter than you!" Hilarious. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I really don't find Samantha attractive at all. Hearing her actually speak hasn't made her look much better than when she was on The Bachelor. Wow, what the fuck, Ashley S? Her meltdown over Dan is even more ridiculous than Juelia's over Joe. You knew him for literally (also, sidebar, stop saying "literally" so damn much, Ashley) like 4 days and you were falling in love with him? Losing him feels like death? Oh lord.

I thought she said something like "these are some of the guys who might be there," and assumed she was going through photos of guys from recent bachelorette seasons.

I wouldn't say that the rules need to be changed for her or whatever, but just be a decent person. Yes, it was her decision to go on the show, and whatever her reasons for doing so, your husband committing suicide (and did she say that he actually did it in front of her?) is a horrible thing to experience and I can see how that would have a serious effect on you even when you may get to the point where you think you're moving past it. You shouldn't toy with anyone's emotions, and Joe would be a dick whether this was Juelia or Jade or Carly or anyone, but I think it'd be easier to write off in the latter cases and easier for them to shrug it off. But I think you especially shouldn't toy with the emotions of someone who's lost a spouse. Be a decent person and just be honest with her.

I think Joe is complete douche and his behavior is vile. One of the other guys said it - if you're going to play someone, don't make it the single mom. More than the single mom thing, though, don't play a widow whose husband committed suicide. Everyone deserves kindness, but especially someone who's been through something like that. That said, dial it back a little, Juelia. You went on one date, you weren't married to him. He played her, and it was a dick move, but she's spending just a little too much time and energy freaking out over it. Frankly out of everyone I think Joe treated Jonathan the worst, and on a show like this at a certain point I think you have to cut your losses and move on to the next guy. Still, Joe is the one in the wrong here. If he'd just told Juelia the truth from jump, especially considering Juelia is friends with Samantha (who still doesn't seem to have much personality) and considering she didn't have any strong feelings for anyone else, I wonder if Juelia would have played along and given him the rose. Did I hear JJ right that he's been unemployed for three years? Ouch. Megan seems nice enough but I can't take how dumb she is.

I think the prolonged Lucy killer/coverup storyline could be interesting if done well, and in some respects I think they've done a good job with it - I like that Bobby is becoming more aggressive, having more outbursts, and that Cindy, at least, seems to have suddenly realized that he really may be dangerous and not this sweet little boy they've all been protecting. I've also liked Jane's slow realization that she made a huge, huge mistake that's going to affect her family as well as several other innocent people. By having Bobby be the killer they really have set the storyline up to have a long-lasting affect. It would be interesting to see this secret really tear the family apart, send Jane and/or Ian into a downward spiral and maybe breakup their marriage. That said, it's very frustrating to watch innocent people go to prison, and if Jake Wood is going on hiatus for a year I suspect Max is going to be in jail for that period, and that it'll be at least that long before the Bobby secret is revealed to everyone, which is annoying. It's also annoying to watch the same set of scenes over and over again each episode - Ian/Jane/Cindy worry, Bobby overheares something incriminating and wonders what's going on, someone reassures him, Ian acts like everything's cool while Jane looks like she wants to vomit, Jane almost confesses the truth, something comes up to stop her from doing so, repeat again next episode. I'm also still boggling at how Bobby hasn't been able to figure things out yet. I could have sworn it was mentioned that he was eight when he killed Lucy, which would make slightly more sense, but Ian just said this week that Bobby's 12 - he's 12 years old and can't put two and two together, that he hit his sister over the head with a music box hard enough to knock her out, and the next day she was found murdered? And now his family is freaking out and having secretive conversations and no one seems that angry at Max? Also, Ian and Jane letting Max potentially go to prison for the rest of his life to cover up something their kid did is so vile. But what I really don't get is, has no one called Lauren to tell her her dad has been arrested? Isn't she with Peter? Don't they both - or at least Peter - know that Bobby is the real killer? Ian and Jane may be willing to let him be falsely accused and possibly convicted, but why on earth aren't Peter and Lauren doing anything to stop this?

I'll join your team. During the family meetings, she seemed happy to see and Nick and to have him there, but when Shawn walked up she genuinely seemed to light up, and she really did seem relieved to finally be able to tell him her feelings and be done with it all in the end. I also liked her "waking up today was like Christmas morning!" Will they break up in 6 months? Maybe - this is a crazy way to meet someone and start a relationship and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it doesn't last. But I do think they have genuine feelings for one another. Chris/Whitney, for example, just never seemed to really be that into one another - it felt like going through the motions, like he picked her because there was no one else he liked better out of the group. Whether they last or not, Kaitlyn/Shawn seem much more genuinely into one another, and all of the issues with her telling him early on that he was the one suggest that even if they do eventually break up, they're not just going through the motions right now.

Yeah, but by the same token, the men/women who compete sign up for this knowing that that's a potential outcome, so they're not exactly hapless victims of egomaniacal assholes. Everyone knows what they're getting into here, Nick probably most of all considering, as he's reminded us twenty or thirty times this season, that he's done this before. That said, when he was nervously revving up to propose while Kaitlyn watched him awkwardly and then had to stop him as he reached for the ring - that was just painful. I really didn't like Nick this season but still, ouch.

Glad to see the back of Honora. Even if she was faking everything or whatever and did it all for the screentime, she's still a huge asshole - coming into a situation like this with two people who really do want to take on this challenge and make it through and trying to sabotage their efforts just so that you can be on TV is a dick move. I'm still loving the all women team. I can see how serious hunger could heighten your emotions and make you feel anxious and paranoid even if you're not actually being excluded from things, and I'm glad they were able to all sit down and talk about it. I hope things go okay when they merge groups - on the one hand, I do think it'd be pretty shitty for them to just pop into Luke and Chris's camp and expect to join up without asking if the guys want to. On the other hand, none of them own this land, so if the women wanted to set up camp next door to Camp Bromance, they have every right to. The Alpha Male team is amusing. I liked EJ's monologue about how they need to respect what they hunt and be thankful, nice callback to Laura telling him the same during their Amazon episode. I'm not sure if the Shane/Alana/Danielle feud is down to editing, Alana/Danielle being jerks, or Shane just getting off on the wrong foot with them and the two of them then picking fights in response, but I do think there's a lesson in here for Shane: don't tell someone at your first meeting that you're almost a sociopath. That would put me on serious guard, so while it does seem like Alana/Danielle are acting like jerks and Shane hasn't done much wrong, if I were them I'd be really wary of him too. They also keep saying that Shane has mood swings, which we really haven't see any evidence of, so either they're leaving a lot on the editing room floor (definitely possible) or the two of them are just making things up (also possible).

I think that's really, really, really unlikely. Black people aren't a different species from white people, and no, to someone else's point earlier in the thread, white people do not "reflect the sun" while black people absorb it. Skin tones aren't like car paint. People with lighter skin are actually much, much more likely to have issues with the sun due to burning more easily. It's much more likely that everyone comes into this having consumed different diets and going through different workouts and training regimens beforehand and perhaps Hakim didn't deal well with the change in diet or sudden lack of readily available water or had a delayed reaction to something he ate just before filming started, or he overexerted himself and his body wasn't used to doing so much work with so little hydration.

I know she's not to everyone's tastes, but I still like Kaitlyn. Hell, I still like Shawn too (kinda). I'm enjoying this season. I think Kaitlyn seems like a decent person who'd be fun to hang out with. I have no idea if she's on the show for "the right reasons" but considering how few of these couples actually stay together, I don't really care if she's there to meet her husband or if she's there to make out with a bunch of dudes. I do think she's really not good at pretending to be interested in some of them, but even that is kind of refreshing to me - this is such a weird, weird way to date/fall in love/start a relationship, so I can't blame anyone for not adhering perfectly to the TV show script, and in fact I find it kind of interesting and different to see how she's (consciously and unconsciously) made it pretty clear who she's interested in. So yeah. Considering how different this season has been from others, I get why people aren't enjoying it, but to me it definitely hasn't been a trainwreck.

Seriously though, I think Ashley (I? The Kardasian one, not the crazy one) pretty much said as much when she appeared on Jimmy Kimmel after her final episode last season - if I recall correctly, she said something along the lines of when you're in that environment and there's this one person that you're pushed so hard to fixate on, you get very wrapped up in the melodrama of it all. Add to that all of the alcohol they're consuming and the lack of any real outlets for any of this and I can see how emotions run high and people get attached when in other circumstances they might not.