atlanticslide

I think it'd be a fun setup to just make it a rotating cast of hosts and have each season be hosted by a different former lead or pair of leads.

I won't miss Chris Harrison at all. He brought nothing to the show, and it felt even more evident after last night.

I remember finding them uncomfortable at the time, and when I rewatched these seasons recently, it was worse than I remembered. All three of Johnny, Evan, Kenny have a lot of funny moments and interviews, but I just don't know what TPTB were thinking using soundbite after soundbite of them being so horribly misogynistic. Like, how many times did they think we really needed to see one of JEK calling a female castmember fat, gross, whore, dumb, bitch who should get drowned or thrown off a cliff or buried by rocks or whatever else. Which is maybe why I view it worse now - it's not just that JEK were horrible, but that the editors and whoever else in production chose to constantly air so many of the disgusting things they said just makes TPTB look shitty too.

I can see why some felt like the Travis/Vic fight went on too long, but the length and passion of it really worked for me. It felt very realistic in the way that real arguments between friends or family members go, kind sprawling and unfocused and jumping from one topic to another basically until they get interrupted and have some time to cool down. Overall I really loved this episode. Loved the tight focus on one main storyline instead of a couple of minutes devoted to 6 different storylines, and I loved the added complexity to the backstory with Michael, that "Michael's captain" wasn't just his captain, he was both Michael and Travis's best friend. I liked Theo a lot and hope he sticks around somehow.

I've been wondering if the lack of fires and the generally lowkey recuses this season are due to COVID and fires/other big action sequences being harder to film safely? On the other hand. 9-1-1 has done several fires and other big rescues this season, so I don't know. This episode definitely felt like filler, with just one too many storylines going on. I love the stuff with Travis and Vic and can't wait for next week, and was surprised at how light it was this week until the trailer for next week made it seem like that's going to be a bigger episode. The Jack stuff and Maya stuff were both pretty lowkey but still compelling. The Andy/Sullivan stuff, meh. That's the storyline I think they could've dropped for this one to give everything else a little more space to breathe. Agreed that the opening scene with them in bed was totally pointless.

The thing is, we don't actually know that that's essentially what happened with Matt and Rachel. None of us were there once the cameras stopped rolling so we don't actually know how things went down. And regardless, I don't really see the point in this kind of thought experiment. Much as we might like to think so considering the nature of this show, this wasn't actually our relationship. What I or anyone else might have done in the same situation is irrelevant; everyone is allowed to draw their own lines in their own relationships and make up their own minds about what they will or won't accept, when they're willing to work on repairing things and when they want to bail on it. It's a bummer for Rachael, but Matt's under no obligation to stick it out or leave any doors open.

I actually wonder how things might have been different for him if he'd started his Bachelor(ette) career as one of the group on a B'ette season. I have to imagine that being one of the group is a really different experience than being the lead and he may have been more comfortable, and thus less stiff and reserved, if he wasn't the lead.

I could swear I heard or read somewhere that these kinds of parties were actually banned by the sorority/fraternity system, which, if true, makes it hard to really buy that they had no idea what the implications were or that there was anything wrong with it, even if they didn't really grasp why.

Interesting ATFR. I zinged from one side to the other on Matt - not giving Michelle 2 minutes to talk is fucking cold and reflects really poorly on him. But it's hard not to feel for him with the Rachael stuff. Like, this is why you don't go on a show like this expecting to truly walk out of there with the love of your life, because there's just so much you can't possibly know about each other yet. But I'm sure hearing about this stuff and seeing her (initial, at least) inability to understand the problem must've been rough. Whoever on the show cast her without digging this stuff up beforehand really did him dirty. I kind of love that Matt really wasn't giving her (or Acho) an inch in any of this - no "last embrace," no "maybe we'll get back together," no nothing. He seems very done with the whole situation.

Bleh. Well, this was predictable pretty much from their one-on-one. I still have no clue what they see (saw) in each other. Every conversation they had was just cartoonish "I love you, I'm falling for you, you're my person, giggle giggle giggle I love you so much". Every talking head she did, she just looked like more and more of a loon. "He's the most amazing man I've ever met and I love him SO much" - based on what? What substantive conversations have you had? What substantive time have you even spent together? You went on one date where "Matt" "bought" you a bunch of stuff and since that it was nothing but "I love him soooooooo" much. Even leaving aside her racism issues, she just comes across like a vapid idiot, and he does too, but at least he seemed to be slightly more honest about being into her because she's hot - every time he talked about Michelle and Rachael in comparison to one another it was basically "Michaelle is beautiful and smart and bold and interesting and mature. Rachael is gorgeous." During his non-proposal he said something like "I see you as the mother of my kids - and those kids'll be crazy!" Like, is Rachael crazy? We've never seen it! I don't know why this annoyed me as much as it did, considering how ridiculous this show is and how ridiculous it is to expect two people to really fall in love under these circumstances, but at least try to sell me on it, show! Also, maybe it's because I'm not at all religious, but Racheal's constant teariness over Matt's prayer during the first night is just so weird.

Man, I just really dislike Rachael. So ready for her to be off my screen.

Bit in bold - that actually was what Rachel's point was (from listening to her podcast ep with Juliet Litman) - that this was a conversation that should've been kept private rather than used for drama fodder for the show, especially since we hadn't really gotten any other info or context about him and their relationship up to that point other than he wasn't really in Matt's life much. I don't really know whether or not I agree - this certainly isn't the first time they've chosen to air something like this (that uncomfortable hometown with Dean's father on Rachel's own season, for example) - but I think part of what she was arguing is that black fathers who abandon their kids is a persistent and harmful stereotype and that even if Matt's dad fits that stereotype, the show choosing to air that conversation, particularly when this is a show that doesn't have a great history with regards to race, and particularly when this is the first black bachelor, feeds into the stereotype.

True. Part of me is rooting for Michelle to "win" because I like her and she really seems like the best choice, but the bigger part of me thinks that she deserves much, much better and if/when he doesn't pick her, she'll be better off for it.

To me, Michelle seems like the obvious choice, but it also seems like it's definitely going to be Racheal. And I honestly just don't really get it. Michelle seems interesting, fun, has her shit together; with Racheal it just seems like there's nothing really there. She's pretty, but there's just nothing really to her. I can't even remember what she does for a living, or an even vaguely substantive conversation she and Matt have had. But the edit she's getting, the fact that he's actually returned her "I'm falling in love with you"s, all of the time spent on her feelings and seeking reassurance all make it really look like he's choosing her (if anyone, which I'm still not totally convinced of). The conversation with his dad was weirdly wrapped up super quickly (gotta make sure we have enough screentime left to show Matt and Bri uselessly pitching a tent in the woods, so cut that heart-to-heart you've been waiting a lifetime for short, Matt!) but it was an interesting scene in that it felt like the most emotion and personality we've seen from Matt in the entire season. The height difference between Matt and Bri made for a really weird view as they set off on their hike. Not since Matt's cooking date with Kit has a couple looked more like parent and child.

Katie, Serena, and Abigail all looked like they were being given Bachelorette auditions (which I'm here for - I liked all three of them so any one of them or Michelle as Bachelorette would be great). Matt being backed into apologizing to Victoria was kind of wild to watch. She has a bizarrely manipulative personality, in that she's clearly a toxic mess of a human, but somehow seems to get people on her side and create a very divisive atmosphere. I'd already lost respect for Chelsea when she shrugged off Victoria's behavior in the house because Victoria was never mean to her, but her anger at Katie last night was over the top and came across like fighting Victoria's battle for her, and for no discernible reason. Is Victoria really that fun to be around?? Several of the woman were more pissed off at Katie for trying to shut down the drama than they were at anyone who was actually causing the drama, which made them all look like assholes. I'm probably in the minority but I really liked Matt's beard. It gives his face some more character. Other Serena was really going for that "my dress is one stiff wind away from falling down" look. Also, I'm begging the Bachelor producers to never, ever, ever show that "yum, daddy" clip ever again, ever. ...I can't even think of anything else that happened. Kind of a nothing of a WTA.

I just don't get why would anyone would wonder if that was Bri's child instead of her mother's though. That seems like an absolutely bizarre assumption. If her mother had Bri when she was 13, she'd only be in her 30s by now, which is a totally reasonable time to have a baby, and didn't Bri tell Matt that her mom had recently gotten married or was in a serious relationship and starting a "new" family? And I was going to say as well that while there's no one singular pregnancy look that every woman necessarily has, Bri's mom looks more like someone who's recently had a baby than Bri does.

To be honest, after almost a year of isolation and not really being able to travel or spend much time close to anyone, I'd do this show too if given the chance, if only for the opportunity to go hang out in a luxury hotel with a bunch of people in a beautiful location, maybe do some dumb and/or fun activities, and occasionally make out with a boring-but-decently-attractive guy.

Why on earth would she be??

Oof, I had the same reaction. That was uncomfortable. And they kept using that clip in the previews throughout the season, so to find out that it wasn't exactly a spontaneous makeout on the hood of a car and in fact she had to prompt him to do it, yikes. I came to really like Kit by the end - she came across really well on Rachel and Becca's podcast and once the in-house cattiness died down, she seemed generally pretty decent. But man, so many of the things she says remind me that she is so young. "I have a plan and I don't want to have kids until at least 24, 25" made me laugh out loud. Which isn't meant as a criticism - she is so young - but it just kind of highlights that a 21-year-old should not be on this show. I kind of loved Pieper refusing to give Matt the big goodbye he was clearly looking for when he walked her out. I'm pretty sure that's more or less how I'd react too in that situation - just get me the fuck out of here as fast as possible. I can't figure out why the dates this season have been so boring. They have a whole estate in the woods and seem to have a lot of resources at their disposal for farms, ice skating, hot air balloons, ziplining, ATVs, canoeing, tons of open space, so why do so many of the dates seem so blah? I was expecting a lot more from the Nemacolin setting.

I'm tired of Heather already. Can I marry Katie? She seems great, lots of fun and generally pretty self assured. Serena's anger seemed to come out of nowhere (even Kit VOed that she didn't know why Serena was so pissed at Katie) and I appreciate that Katie had no fucks to give about whatever Serena was pissed about. I had a feeling, though, when she got the one on one that Matt was going to tell her I'm Just Not That Into You and send her home - he's seemed like he likes her well enough but never seemed as into her as some of the others (although I'm still baffled as to why/how Kit is still there). She'd make a fun bachelorette. The carnival date looked awesome, but did they go on any of the rides or just play the games?

That's absolutely hilarious and accurate. Since day 1, every time she's on screen I think about how she looks like a little girl, and Matt as the babysitter hanging out with her for the evening is spot on. She seems reasonably nice (at least in this episode; she joined in on some of the cattiness in previous episodes and seemed pretty tight with Victoria at the beginning of this one) but it's hard not to roll my eyes at a 21-year-old opining about how she wasn't sure before now if she'd ever find love. Girl, please. And I know that everyone's got problems and all that, but hearing a rich person talk about how rich they are and how being rich makes life so hard also just makes me roll my eyes.

Nah, not at ALL times, just on your first date and/or roughly 12 minutes after meeting them.

I do find Matt generally pretty boring - it just feels like there's very little spark with him most of the time, even when he's in the midst of serious conversations with the women, and he ends up looking totally blank-faced even when someone is telling him about her dying father or struggles with her appearance. But from what some have talked about on various podcasts, it sounds like he was incredibly nervous about doing this and how he would come across on TV, so that may be why he seems extremely reserved and unemotional at times, and why he ends up feeling boring. That said, I thought he seemed way more lively and interested on his date with Michelle than he has at any other point on the show so far, and seemed for the first time like he was actually having some fun.

She didn't go straight to lecturing, though. During the Sarah situation it wasn't until after the big group confrontation that Katie went to speak with Sarah privately, and then talked to the other women about it afterwards. And with the new women, the vibe was immediately hostile during the first cocktail party, and I think Katie was the one who pointed out to the new women why there was tension in the room, which to me was a perfectly reasonable expression of empathy for both those who were struggling with the new arrivals and those who'd just arrived. It wasn't until things had apparently been going on for several days and gotten really nasty that Katie spoke up to the others. She did hear them out, and at a certain point, there's only so much "lol, these new chicks are whores and trash and fuck them for showing up late, this is our turf" that any sane, rational person can tolerate before telling them to cut it out. And since when are any of these people her friends? She's known them for 3 weeks. Why should she show them any more loyalty than the women who've just shown up, especially when she's seen first hand how vicious some of them are. Who in their right mind would take Victoria's or Anna's sides in a situation like this? But then, I didn't see anything inappropriate or rude with the vibrator, so I think we're just not going to see eye-to-eye on Katie.

You can't blame the women for being annoyed or frustrated by this development, but there's literally no reason for them to be pissed at the new women. I can even understand having an initial coldness towards the new women because they were shocked at the development and didn't really know how to handle it, but at a certain point the vitriol and possessiveness just gets weird and over the top. Anna's level of anger and nastiness towards the new women - does she think these women made the decision on their own to sit out the first three weeks of the season and then show up suddenly? And I disagree that Katie is simply playing devil's advocate. During one of the mean girl group convos, Katie was looking visibly uncomfortable before she finally asked them to give it a rest. And she seems to be one of the few "OGs" to actually sit and talk with the new women (though obviously there's a ton of stuff we're not seeing, so she may not have actually been the only one). She got upset about Sarah interrupting her conversation with Matt, but she behaved like an adult about it - spoke to Sarah about it directly, expressed her frustration with the situation, and then moved the fuck on. A lot of the other women this season don't seem to know how to do any of that. This is a bizarre situation that just got even more bizarre for everyone, so it's understandable for them to be thrown, or to be emotional, but there's a very big difference between confronting the issue head on and talking things out calmly, and gossiping, spreading rumors, talking trash, and bullying. Especially when the latter is all directed at people who've done nothing wrong.