lucindabelle

It's good to see older women on tv. No argument. I'm just saying that 48 and 62 are completely different experiences. I don't know how old Diane is supposed to be but it isn't within five years of me, I know that for sure. (Similarly, 19 and 32, or 29 and 42). It's just the 50+ syndrome I was talking about before where every age gets a fashion reccomendation in a magazine (look great in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50 plus) until it's 50+ as if 50 and 70 are the same in any way. I don't think I've ever seen one solitary woman character in her 50s who isn't also a mom. Let alone one who is just like Sarah jessica Parker next year (ok, she is a mom, but what I mean is, fashionable, trendy, young). I live in NYC and know a lot of actresses my age and a few years older who constantly get taken for early 30s because society has no image of women who are neither senior partner like Diane nor nubile young thing. I guess panjabis character is a start. And Liz lemon who I did not realize was in her 40s in huge series. No doubt when I am 60, there will be loads of images of women in their 50s, because that's how my life seems to work ...

I hated that the rich guy was also a meanie and baddie. Would have been a pan interesting choice if he were decent but dull etc. it's just stacking the deck. Only decent scenes were old couple dying and the band playing nearer my god to the and saying it's a pleasure playing with you. The irish band were great but rose dancing with them, not, and everyone wading through the water with no flinching when that water should have been freezing really bugged.

Lol I remember thinking really, demoiselles d'avignon went down on huge titanic? Who knew?

When that episode aired I burst into tears. The only ever time I've bawled like that in a tv show was the end of season one of in the flesh when the dad relives finding his son in the cave and thinks he's all right then sees all the blood. Harry walked in looking teary and she couldn't focus on the cute Yale guy and she apologized with tears in her eyes... And when he said that's not good enough I felt so bad and then he kneeled... Shit, I'm crying just reliving it, so beautiful. I also thought the romance episode contrasting the Russian and carrie and romantic gestures with Harry and Charlotte both having food poisoning and ending up holding hands on the bathroom floor was brilliant..l that's the real romance. Still adoring someone when you're having (too ladylike to spell it out)

Yes I think carrie was kind of like Jennifer Aniston in t hat she seemed to want kids theoretically at least but it just never happened. It would be interesting to catch up with those characters now in terms of age stereotypes, because carrie would now be 45 and samantha well over 50... But the movies went weird directions and in the end women in their 40s don't get to be cute, fashionable flirtatious. I agree about the older characters on the good wife but frankly a woman who is over 60 and I have zero in common. Different generations entirely. I'm not a baby boomer, didn't smoke pot in the sixties, I was a toddler. As was Sarah jessica Parker. Who in real life is 48, a few months younger than me. I'm not Meryl streeps age. Not helen Mirren's age. Don't want to be lumped in with them, wonderful as they are, it's just another way of discounting women my age (not saying anyone here is doing that, just saying).. Helen Mirren was born in 1945, Streep in 1949. It's the same old lumping women as older women once they're over 40. almost 50 & almost 70 are not in any way the same. Christine Baranski was born in 1952, 12 years older than me. I don't look at her and see anything like myself. I'd just love to see someone LIKE me on tv, not someone 12-20 years older or 12-20 years younger. Tami taylor is great but again, a mom.literally carrie is the only example I can think of and the show ends before she's 40. I appreciate the examples of future role models. But, just not the same as seeing someone like you, I loved SATC because those girls were my age, among other reasons. Now it's off the air and the characters just stopped aging, I guess.

I hear you. I'm pretty tired of huge woman goes to abortion clinic and changes her mind plot. I know it happens but it's a TV cliche. Joan on mad Men most recently.... I totally see why she would keep the baby, just wonder why she couldn't have made the choice sooner. Though with the current political climate doubt well be seeing many abortion stories at all for awhile.

I was also shocked at the reveal. I thought the sadness about her fiancé dumping her to marry someone else was sincere. I didn't even figure out what was going on until the hearing. I wonder what that first date was like that he never wanted to see her again.

Thanks... But pretty sure that characters in her 30s. Jennifer Aniston in real life... I'm sure she's wishing she hadn't gone so public with her desire to have kids now.

Couples making choices is underrepresented, period. I'm always amazed by the TV couples that appear not to have talked about children, religion or where they want to live before they married. Mad Men, Thirtysomething, I'm looking at you.

I know a few examples of hot guy, plain woman. they are all Irish, men marrying mum-types, and most of them cheat (not all, of course).I've also read that people gravitate to same level of attractiveness, think there may be something in that too. I've never been attracted to a supermodel type guy, because I'm n ot a supermodel girl, but I am attracted to fairly hot, because I'm fairly hot. But I agree, men are more visual.

Hah, Heimel was right. But you'd think that with so many more women writing and being showrunners that would change. But patriarchal thought exists in women too, along with the myth of appealing to men being moneymaking when in reality women are bigger consumers of media (theater too). When I was in high school we didn't read one single female author in AP English...this idea that men's stories are universal whereas women's stories are some girl thing. That kind of hangs on. Which is one reason I'm heartened by the huge successes of Frozen and The Fault in Our Stars. For me, 50 which is a few months away is terrifying,...ever notice how women's magazines for fashion at any age go 20s, 30s, 40s, 50+? as if 50 and 80 are the same... There's nothing between nubile and granny. When you do see a woman in her 50s she's invariably someone's mom, with grown kids. Women like myself? not there at all. Thanks, Bastet.

Oh, I apologize then, I misunderstood you. Obviously it is a sensitive issue. (I've recently been reading up on Wiki about women bearing children naturally at 50-something. This really should be in a sitcom somewhere. I know I'm not alone). In that case, I agree with you. Older women really are not always int he business of handing out lectures and advice unless we're asked. I didn't like it when I was in my 20s and don't like it now, heh. And I completely agree that the woman who didn't make a choice but had one handed to her is also worthy of portrayal. Of course, that's not the ONLy issue facing women in their 40s (ask me about bra sizes). But it isn't always do I/don't I. Sorry for jumping the gun. One of my favorite lines in John Patrick Shanley's brilliant "Outside Mullingar" was when this rural 30-something young woman announces triumphantly, "I've been to the doctor and i've frozen my eggs!" An appreciative laugh all over the theatre (funny because unexpected in this rural town, funny because she's so practical). Schematic writing like what you describe is annoying on loads of levels. Please accept my apology.

Bastet, I find that really offensive. You do realize you've just slammed me as the kind of character who offends you. I'm not giving any advice here. I'm just saying that people like myself are JUST as real as you are and our concerns are JUST as valid as yours. Maybe this thread has been misnamed, because it sure seems to privilege one point of view and one point of view alone. I am a real person. With real regrets. And I've never seen anyone like myself represented on television. No, I don't want to be a "lesson" to you. I'm just a person too. Delaying can turn into forgoing. That's what happened to me. That's a real deal. Sorry it offends you to hear it, but it's the truth. I look 35, but I'm not. That makes me sad. Sorry that makes You angry, but it's the truth. I have a PhD and a great job title. What I don't have and probably never will have are kids of my own. (yes, the probably is me in denial, I know). Women in their 40s and 50s and hey! 60s! are real people too. We also care about feminism. It means choice, not shaming and silencing.

Non-whites play white characters in theatre all the time. Non-traditional casting means a person of color can play a white role. I just saw a black actor play Clitandre in Moliere's "The Learned Ladies." Obviously, the French character is white, but we can all pretend. I remember seeing a black actor play Thomas Jefferson at something I got taken to when I was a little girl and I understood right away that Jefferson wasn't black and that the actor was pretending. Film is a realistic medium, though, so you have to reimagine the character, which makes it tricker.

The thing about being treated as if you are a ticking clock is that there is, sadly, some truth to it. I'm 49 so it's over for me. i always assumed at some point I'd have kids, and now that option's off the table. It's not off the table for my 54-year-old brother (well it is, because he just married an age appropriate woman, but you know what I mean). This is unfair, but a reality. When I was in my 20s, egg freezing wasn't the norm. A lot of women are like me, pursuing advanced degrees and careers and assuming things would fall into place, but they don't always. That's one reason the issue comes up. It's not the only one of course, and sexism plays a part in it, but not everyone who asks is coming from a sexist place. As for stay-at-home moms-- my mother was, though she worked before. Being a mom was her calling. I'm sensing a kind of "oh no she'll be bored" thread here that is kind of a slap at people who really are NOT bored just making a nice life for their families. My mom was not a sew, cook, etc. homemaker, just a very involved mom who got very active in the synagogue and in the schools too. Yes, there are some women who just don't want kids. And there are women who made having a family a priority. There are also a lot of women like myself, who would have loved to have kids and can't anymore. We exist, too. If I had the choice to have kids in the next few years I'd do it. There are limits to choice. I'm limited by biology (money too, but that's a totally separate issue). Characters like myself should also be represented on television. It really isn't a dichotomy. Unless you're saying that I and my feelings do not matter. And yes, I loved seeing Cristina stand her ground. I especially loved that we could see she was good with children and liked them, just didn't want any of her own. Ann Patchett has a wonderful essay on this, about how she never felt the need to stop carriages and look at babies, but always stopped to scratch dogs' ears and look into their limpid eyes. ETA: I personally do know women who have changed their minds. So while it may not be palatable to some to see that, it is not unrealistic, nor unrepresentative. Some people start out life wanting kids and change, too.

Huh. I always thought who-shot-John was just a way of saying "hooey." Now I wonder where "hooey" comes from. That doesn't make sense. And if something doesn't make sense, it's not true.

Excellent point. This would all be scarier if it seemed that anybody was considering the, you know, obvious.

I so need to see Love, American Style again, just to relive my preschool days. I can still sing the music. I suspect most of the stories went right over my thre-year-old head.

And yet you made a baby with him. You picked him. Your mother thinks you're cute. I don't.

Good point about the triangles... I was in one once by accident (guy lied about having broken up) and in retrospect my first reaction, leaving and slamming the door,w as the right one. Instead he was going to break up with her I. Person... And so on. The only one that's ever worked for me is in Camelot, not a tv show, but I could totally see how. Guenevere loved Lancelot and her husband and her tears at the end always had me bawling, even when I was a little girl. Helped that Lance and Arthur loved each other, too. So tis possible. But it's rarely portrayed that well. It's usually just a foil.

Sharing the love for Murder she wrote. Had it on DVr series until it just kept filling up. Do have to laugh at ho wherever she goes there is always a handsome and age appropriate bachelor for her to hang out with.l. But enjoy it. It's a rather sweet world, the murder and awful clothes aside. And Angela Lansbury is a heroine, no doubt about it. Had the chance to see her in blithe spirit on broadway just a few years ago and she was really wonderful.

Oh I like that theory, because really Tara on a cd cross with a snake babbling is otherwise ... Pointless. Did anybody else laugh when Willa recovered her demureness? The abruptness of the shift just cracked me up. I didn't find Eric and Jason hot. I was ... Bored. Actually a lot of this episode was kind of dull, although miss harris won't eat us was amusing too. Where the heck can this be going?

I love Harry, And it's absolutely as valid for him to want to keep his promise to his mother and marry within the faith as it is for Charlotte to want her husband to want children. Harry told Charlotte about it when it was still very early in their relationship... At a wedding where he hadn't even met her friends yet. And they were just falling in love, it's not as if he'd been stringing her along, she'd made it clear she barely wanted to be seen with him. If she didn't want to convert, she could have bailed then. Just as a man who didn't want children with her can bail early on. They have different deal breakers but they are deal breakers. In addition, Judaism is not just a religion, it's tribal, and heritable, and goes through the female line. Harry was not a jerk, just honest, as he was throughout. This was his deal breaker. Now, if he'd stayed with Charlotte for years never intending to marry her, that would have been very wrong, I agree.

Also, that was a bad date, not a relationship she was dumping. His bringing her carnations was a sign that it was a clueless guy, but as Carrie pointed out as I recall, none of that really matters when you like a guy. The china pattern thing was beyond stupid, though. She should have known whether she liked him or not by then.

Oh, Mozelle, I feel you. I hate that attitude so much. For one thing, it makes women responsible for the actions of reasoning, adult men. Which is ridiculous. And for another, we all know stories of couples who found each other when they were with someone else (I know of at least one where both were married to someone else, although admittedly that's a little unsettling). So in the end, the problem or lack of it is in the relationship. If it's secure, all is well. If not, not. This does not apply to long-distance situations, in my opinion. I think proximity is a big big thing in all relationships, friendships, family, anything, and love too. I meant to stay in touch with my best friend from college and I'm sure if we hung out we'd pick up where we left off, but she lives 2,000 miles away and is not in touch with me on all the little things. But that's off topic.