John M

I dunno, maybe it's age, maybe it's my primary mooring being in a same-sex relationship and most of our friends being gay couples so there isn't the same gender bonding rituals but I don't know anyone including straight couple friends and gay couples in open relationships where it would be OK for one of them to just go out and get shitfaced drunk and party the night away without their partner. Dinner and drinks, sure, my partner works late and I often go to happy hour without him but the woohoo! clubbing, can't remember my own name by the end of the night stuff that her sisters seemed intent on doing is something that I don't know anyone I know being OK with in a relationship. But I'm also in my mid 30s, so maybe I am just out of touch.

His english is good enough that he probably wouldn't have too hard a time finding a decent paying job in retail/customer service/banking/etc because he is bi-lingual. I mean if he stopped acting like a fucking child.

To flirt, to look, to cheat. Seems like enough reason to me that this isn't a good idea.

Is that really that rare in the US though? I mean not really a prohibition but I would think it was weird if my sister-in-law went out to a club without my brother. Not that she isn't allowed to, she will do dinner and drinks with her girlfriends but a club? I dunno, I pretty much expect committed couples to be a package deal for that kind of thing.

If you aren't from a visa waiver country it can be pretty hard to get a tourist visa to the US and most of the people probably don't have the financial means to qualify.

I mean it kinda is though, isn't it? It seems like the deal is he gets a green card/citizenship in exchange for being the houseboy.

Also I get that it is tradition but the tradition is when women were property and being transferred. I don't think it is the worst thing in the world to give the bride to be's family a heads up but she is a grown woman and can marry anyone she pleases at any time, her father has no say whatsoever. So what if he did ask him first, what was he going to say, no? Based on the way he is acting he might think he has veto power but no, he did not need permission to ask her to marry him and it's kind of offensive to suggest he did.

What mature couple would want their relationship splayed out on a trashy reality TV show? I have a great relationship but I'm sure with enough tape and needling by producers you could make both of us look like monsters on TV.

Honestly I'm shocked she hasn't "leaked" a sex tape at this point, I'm guessing the only reason she hasn't is she isn't as proud of her body as she claims to be. She is just so desperate to be viewed as sexual that it comes off as so weird. It reminds me of this from Always Sunny: (edit: Apparently it won't embed to a time, 1:00 in.)

We always joke that she lives in the basement of Kleinfeld. Is she even like a legitimate designer or like the Kleinfeld house brand? They always make a big deal out of her but she makes such trashy dresses and apparently has a lot of free time to make custom dresses for randos that walk into Kleinfelds. I know it is a TV show but perception is everything and the perception that she gives on SYTTD is she is a sales associate at Kleinfelds that happens to own a sewing machine.

I find myself so on the fence with Andrei and Elizabeth, on one hand I think he is being a bit of a controlling ass, on the other hand her sisters seem like obnoxious bitches and I have seen enough bachelorette parties of this sort roll through gay bars to know they are just the worst, that her sisters are going to try and get her beyond drunk and all be obnoxious in general and Andrei is probably right for not wanting her to act like this. And I get the feeling that Elizabeth isn't so into the whole thing anyways. Plus Andrei is controlling but I think Elizabeth is kind of into it. As much as I want to say his behavior is misogynistic I get the impression that is what she wants, a big strong man making the decisions for her. It's not how I would want to live but as long as she is making the decision on her own free will and he is not being abusive it is her free choice to live that way even if I disagree with it.

Recently enough that they most likely were not going to have AIDS panic. And I had not meet them, I had the option but I wasn't going to do "Oh this is just my friend" or "Surprise, I'm gay and this is my partner!" Also his parents were not morons and put two and two together a long time ago and said they felt bad for not specifically inviting me to things but understandably wanted him to come out on his own terms.

She titled her book "I do it with the lights on", she is just desperate to be viewed as sexual it is bizarre. We get it, people have sex with fat people, it's an entire fetish, I totally believe you have had sex, my god you are 33 years old why are you acting like this?

It was some self-storage facility.

I'm just laughing thinking about when my partner came out to his parents (They obviously had already known he was gay for a long time, he had just never said the words) about our relationship and he added that we had been tested together and were both STD free. Honey I don't think they also need to know we have unprotected sex, I think they figured out all they wanted to by the whole 35~ year old gay male couple living together thing.

First of all I am inclined to believe that neither of them has had any sexual education at all based on how they are acting but there are plenty of topics around sex that they should be comfortable talking about well before their age. The stuff she wants to talk about should be something that anyone is able to talk about. As I mentioned in another thread I went to a Christian school freshmen year, I mean it wasn't a hardcore evangelical school but it was definitely conservative and we had a rather explicit sex education class of male and female anatomy, mechanics of sex and the teacher made it clear that it was a nothing off limits discussion, a limit that kids tested as they do about discussions about him having sex with his wife. I mean it wasn't Penthouse letter level but rather matter-of-factly yes I have sex with my wife often, she enjoys it, I'm normally on top, etc. I have limited experience with fundies but my understanding is once you get married you are supposed to have a lot of sex and crank out babies with an understanding that the wife is supposed to submit and makes sure the man's sexual needs are taken care of. I mean sure they have lots of backwards ideas about birth control, female sexual pleasure and needs, pornography, sex before marriage, male dominance etc but it seems like most of the fundie groups are pretty explicate that once you guys are married you are suppose to have sex basically whenever the man wants it as open expectation of marriage. Even her mother seemed more than willing to volunteer information to her daughter about sex on national TV, her soon to be husband shouldn't be more uptight about it than her mother.

OK, let me rephrase, I don't think Nicole deserves an adult romantic relationship, I don't think she has anything to contribute to one and I seriously doubt she ever will. I'm saying that maybe a guy taking care of her emotionally and sexually as a caretaker in exchange for US citizenship isn't the worst thing in the world for her and probably a fair enough deal. A good friend of mine, a very much out and proud gay man at the time married a very good lesbian friend of his back in the 80s. She was a flight attendant so he got travel benefits, she got her family off of her back with a beard. They loved each other, they are still very good friends to this day but it wasn't a romantic relationship and that IMO is fine

I've been rolling this around in my head for a few days now afraid of sounding almost cruel but does Nicole deserve real love in a romantic relationship? I mean the kind of love that most of us hopefully have in ours? She is not attractive, she is dumb as bricks, like I'm pretty sure bordering on mentally disabled, she is immature and given her low intelligence that is likely a permanent situation and to top it off she has a horrible manipulative personality bordering on abusive (Well, actually abusive but I don't know if that is out of malice or from being dumber than a rock). And on top of all of that she comes with a child who she appears not to be capable of handling on her own that may be special needs. I'm sorry, but what is she going to contribute to a relationship? I've mentioned this before in other threads and I don't want to sound too cold about relationships, I love my partner dearly, but relationships are always a little transactional in nature, as people we all have our own strengths, weaknesses and flaws, the goal is to find someone that compliments you, a teammate, a person that means that both of you are better people because you are together. I'm sorry but I don't see what Nicole would bring to the table in any relationship, honestly maybe the best she can do is find someone willing to put in the time and go through the motions knowing that there is US citizenship at the end.

I agree on a lot of that but also they signed up for this show and sex is a natural part of a relationship and they both volunteered about their virginity. Maybe it is my non-religious big city view of sex but this stuff that should be more than covered in high school with peers, I went to a Christian school freshmen year and even though it was abstinence only male and female anatomy and the mechanics of sex were more than covered. I don't remember if they covered condoms or birth control or not, I suspect not but I do remember the guy that taught us to it making a point that this was a no-hold bars discussion and some of the guys testing it and he was open about his sex life with his wife. I mean not Penthouse level stuff but a very frank yes I have sex with my wife regularly, she enjoys it, I'm normally on top, etc. I don't see any indication she was wanting to talk about if she was going to swallow or anything like that, she appears to be wanting to talk like middle school level sex education.

I've been increasingly bothered how what for all intents and purposes are cis-hetero people namely asexuals and bi-"I think Angelina Jolie is hot"-sexuals feel entitled to the queer label as just a cool label to have and then force themselves into queer spaces. I've even seen it from the fat-acceptance community in their belief that we share a similar struggle and as such should be invited into the tent. But to be honest I thought Whit's attempt was more sad than insulting, it came off as a desperate ploy for attention by a sad woman that has never had a serious relationship in her life and too narcissistic to even consider the experiences of anyone else. Whit's life just seems so pathetic to me, just a sad lonely fat girl that it just seemed like a cry to be viewed as sexual at all than a genuine attempt to take any queer identity. She would probably take a video of a woman performing oral sex on her and "leak" it just so people knew anyone went down there, hell, she would date Todd if he tried gay conversion and yell from the rafters about their fabulous relationship. edit: Trying to find better words to put this in, I don't think Whit was trying to take queer identity, I think it was a transparently sad and desperate attempt to be viewed as having any sexual identity whatsoever. Gay, queer, straight, she just wants to be viewed as a sexual being, she will take whatever she thinks she can get.

I feel kind of conflicted about this, no, I do not wish to discuss the specific details of my sex life on national television but these are two virgins, there are no details. But a healthy young couple in teens and mid 20s, yeah, I expect them to be having sex, I expect most couples to be having sex, as a sort of abstract thing there is nothing salacious about it, it's part of a normal healthy relationship. I feel like the discussion she wanted to have was not "Yeah, I can't wait to put on my crotchless panties and have you fuck me doggie style while you pull my hair!", what she wanted to have was a conversation that should have been covered and openly discussed at least by freshmen year of high school, nervousness, feeling ready, contraception, etc.

"Although she has dated in the past" "Unfortunately, this sweet romance quickly turns sour, and Whitney is blindsided by a heartbreaking turn of events from which she may never recover." "Whitney temporarily handed Todd the reins to her beloved Big Girl Dance Class, but Todd seems to be letting this new position go to his head, which creates noticeable friction in their friendship." "Then, with pressure from her dad, Whitney agrees to run a 5k race in Hawaii and enlists Glenn to help her train. As the race approaches, Whitney's health and stamina comes into question, and making it to the finish line turns into an uphill battle." I can't even with this woman, although she has dated in the past? Well I should hope so, she is in her fucking 30s, then she finds love although it "quickly sours", how quickly? I assume pretty quick and she just feel desperately in love and I mean desperately with the first man that has paid attention to her in a long time and he was like whoa, back off, it's been a couple of weeks. Then Todd lets BGDC go to his head? You mean the fake class with like 12 "students"? How does that go to his head? Then they show her slowly walking in the 5k. Seriously? 5k is an accomplishment if you RUN it, walking 3 miles is, I dunno, a nice dog walk? A social activity on a nice day?Honey you need serious help if you can't walk 3 miles, that is absolutely nothing to a person that doesn't have a serious physical disability.

I think this might have been the worst episode in the history of WIll & Grace which is a shame since everything so far has been solid and they always had such great Christmas episodes. We kept looking at each other and asking what on earth were we watching? Nah, I do not see this at all, I know too many Will & Jacks, hell I dated my Jack for almost 3 years, it's a recipe for misery if they get together.

I guess it depends on the extent of their sex education? I'm inclined to believe they have none whatsoever but from my limited understanding of fundie sex education there are books/audiobooks that go into pretty explicit detail on how to make love as a virgin after you tie the knot, maybe she wanted to discuss that? I mean she is an 18 year old virgin but she seems pretty wrapped up in the whole idea of having sex for the first time, I think she is just obsessing over it and wants to just talk about it because the idea excites her.

Ehhhhhhh.... I think it is the general view that people from the US that travel internationally to have more than average disposable income and they come from more cosmopolitan areas/lifestyles. It's the tale of two America's thing I think, frankly being upper-middle class and having my social circle and peer group being upper middle class as well the way a lot of the people on these shows are shown to live is frankly unrecognizable to me, I simply do not have more than a passing relationship with anyone that doesn't live in a luxury apartment or a house around or above the median home price. It's probably a personal failing of mine but I suspect a fair amount of tourists self-select the same way.