OITNB: The Book That Inspired the Series

[MMLEsq]

I thought it would be interesting to a have a thread where we could discuss the similarities and differences between the events, characters, etc. in the book and those in the TV series, as well as talk about things in the book that we'd like to see in future episodes.

 

For example, I think it would be interesting if they did an episode around Children's Day, which Piper Kerman described in some detail in the book.

 

One thing that struck me as very different between the book and the show was the apparent fairly strict enforcement (in the book) of the "no touching" rule between inmates.  It's brought up numerous times.  That's something that's been tweaked for the show, as we have seen hugs, snuggling, and a whole lot more that the Litchfield guards usually seem to ignore. 

[bravelittletoaster]

Yes, thanks for this.  I read the book after I watched season 1, and for all Jenji's talk about how they were going to "get away from the book" this season I was surprised how much of it still factored.  Piper's grandmother's death in the book was one of the most affecting parts of it for me, and how shattered she was to have missed it, and how it was such a turning point for her.  In the book it was more about taking responsibility for her inability to be there, and how it really helped drive home to her the consequences of her actions.  In the show it represented a different turning point, I think, but then Chapman has developed into a much different person from Kerman.  But even having said that, I still feel like the book really informs my take on the show.

[MMLEsq]

Another thing that I noticed was that Piper Kerman seemed more focused on using her time at Danbury to improve herself:  she ran 30 miles a week on the track, appeared to do yoga every day, seemed focused on eating as healthy as she could (multiple references to the vegetable selection at the salad bar), read lots of books, and seemed interested in learning a skill.  While I can understand that those things aren't perhaps inherently interesting to watch on TV, I feel like we haven't really seen anything like that from Piper Chapman.

 

Another difference was that in the book Piper gets mail, books, etc. from lots of friends (didn't she mention getting two subscriptions to the same magazine?) and visits from friends and family every week.  In the show, Piper seems much more isolated.  We see her with a stack of letters at one point, presumably from Alex, but Piper on TV seems much more removed from her outside life.  I guess I can understand why the show chose to go in a different direction with that.

[configdotsys]

I cannot get myself to drop the dough for the book after reading many reviews that say the real Piper is an obnoxious bitch and cannot go a few pages without reading how pretty and smart she is and her hoity-toity education. Is that really the case? I saw her interviewed on Ellen and she came across as extremely self-centered.

 

Is the book a worthy read? Is there anything in the book about Piper reaching out to anyone that she was in prison with or help them in any way all these years later when she was cashing in with a book about her short stint in a minimum security prison?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Config

[bravelittletoaster]

I dunno, I liked her, related to her and found it to be very interesting.  It seems to me that there are a lot of people who project their class issues onto both real Piper and fictional Piper.  I also know several people who either sort of know her or have a friend who does, so maybe the fact that she's loosely in my orbit makes me feel more akin to her.  All I know is a lot more people care about the issue of women in prison and the prison industrial complex now than they did before they heard her story.  

 

Also it's like, 8 bucks, dude.

Edited June 29, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[bluedevilblue]

Free from the library. :-). Yes, I still get books from the library.

Having said that, even though it was a book for my book group, I've never read it. I suspect I like the real Piper more in theory - working for prison reform, being cool enough to let the show make her alter ego into a more shaded character, etc. - than I'd like her in eh reality of the book.

Edited June 29, 2014 by bluedevilblue

[configdotsys]

 

Also it's like, 8 bucks, dude.

 

Price doesn't matter. Contributing to the coffers of a narcissistic person by reading how wonderful she is every few pages is quite another. That's why I asked if the book was truly like that. If it has good content, I'll read it. If it consistently reminds me how much better Piper is than everyone else in the prison, I'm not interested.

 

I'm not a dude, but thanks for your input.

 

 

[bravelittletoaster]

Everyone's a dude to me.  

 

Considering Kerman has worked very hard to speak publicly about prison reform, testify before Congress on the matter, and write wherever someone will give her a forum on it, I just have a hard time calling her selfish.  She could just sit at home and count her money if she wanted.  It's been a year since I read the book, but I don't remember her talking about how great she is.  I often thought she was pretty great, though.  I also thought, "there, but for the grace of God, go I."  It's just a really interesting account of someone's unusual firsthand experience.  I don't understand why coming from a decent family and going to a good school would be a dealbreaker for anyone else in appreciating that story any more than the lack of those things would, personally.

[mledawn]

Book Piper is different than Show Piper, as I recall. They amp up the annoying on the show, IMHO.

[Zuleikha]

I found the book interesting. It's very different from the show. For me, reading the book was helpful to start unpacking the ways in which the show is very sensationalized. I didn't find Kerman to be unlikable or narcissistic at all. I felt that she was sincere in both taking responsibility for her role in the drug ring and her advocacy. I definitely didn't get the sense that she considered herself to be better than the other women in prison--simply more fortunate to have a strong, well-off support system. 

 

I suspect some of the criticism may come from the fact her story is relatively atypical, and Kerman acknowledges that. There's something unfair that someone who starts out in a more privileged position then gets to publish a widely-read memoir and become a recognized activist while more representative voices don't. 

[starri]

I cannot get myself to drop the dough for the book after reading many reviews that say the real Piper is an obnoxious bitch and cannot go a few pages without reading how pretty and smart she is and her hoity-toity education. Is that really the case? I saw her interviewed on Ellen and she came across as extremely self-centered.

 

Is the book a worthy read? Is there anything in the book about Piper reaching out to anyone that she was in prison with or help them in any way all these years later when she was cashing in with a book about her short stint in a minimum security prison?

Couple of things:  Piper Kerman does mention her upbringing and education a lot, but if anything, it's in a context that's the opposite of what you're implying; she goes out of her way to say that she isn't any better than the other women she's incarcerated with, and that she is fully aware how fortunate she was to have advantages that they didn't, especially when it came to legal representation.  There's one woman who I think was used to partly inspire both Daya and Moreno, who is serving a much longer sentence for what Piper K seems to think is a much more minor crime than her own, and she finds that unfair.

I was expecting Piper K to be more like Piper Chapman, but she's really not.  She doesn't pity herself, she takes full responsibility for the crime she committed and at no point claims that the real-life Alex, who she gives the pseudonym Nora, tricked her into doing anything.  And given that she's come out of the experience being an advocate for prison reform, I think she's a decent person.

 

While I don't know if she continues to have the women she was in with over for lunch, the book is dedicated to "Pop," Red's real-world counterpart.

[bravelittletoaster]

I think I saw a couple of her real-life prison friends congratulating her on Twitter for yesterday's Emmy nods.  Ha.  Cause at least one of them was like, "who'd have thought, back in Chicago..."

 

Kerman seldom fails to point out how fortunate she was to be going into prison well-connected.  I don't have the link now but I saw a recent interview with I think NBC where she said she was lucky to be a poor target for sexual abuse from guards because they knew she had a lot of people on the outside who were very active in her life and came to visit her frequently.  She said the guards tended to prey instead on women who didn't have a lot of outside resources [not financial, specifically, but in this case more social.]

[bravelittletoaster]

Piper Kerman sat down with Ezra Klein of Vox to discuss US incarceration rates, recidivism and other issues around the prison industrial complex:

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898401/the-real-piper-of-orange-is-the-new-black-on-how-prison-is-broken

 

[Just kind of treating this as her thread in addition to the book thread...seems to make sense to lump that all together.]

 

ETA:  Piper on Melissa Harris-Perry's show to talk about how personal narrative can frame public sentiment / policy:

 

http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/watch/can-a-personal-narrative-impact-policy--303521859772

Edited July 15, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[bravelittletoaster]

Again, kind of stretching the "book" topic here, but Piper just tweeted out this sweet essay by Larry about his own thoughts on the whole life to screen thing:

 

https://medium.com/matter/my-life-with-piper-from-big-house-to-small-screen-592b35f5af94

[Fable]

Config said: 

I cannot get myself to drop the dough for the book after reading many reviews that say the real Piper is an obnoxious bitch and cannot go a few pages without reading how pretty and smart she is and her hoity-toity education. Is that really the case? I saw her interviewed on Ellen and she came across as extremely self-centered.

 

 

I haven't read the book nor have I seen her on Ellen, but I have watched at least 5 or 6 interviews with Piper Kerman, and she has never come across as anything other than sincere and genuine.   If you want to get an overall sense of her mindset, I would suggest youtubing her, and decide from there if the book is for you or not.

[bravelittletoaster]

Nice quick chat with Piper and Larry about their feelings about the show and Piper's interest in prison reform:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/Orange-is-the-New-Black-author-and-husband-tell-5647662.php

[CherithCutestory]

Another thing that I noticed was that Piper Kerman seemed more focused on using her time at Danbury to improve herself:  she ran 30 miles a week on the track, appeared to do yoga every day, seemed focused on eating as healthy as she could (multiple references to the vegetable selection at the salad bar), read lots of books, and seemed interested in learning a skill.  While I can understand that those things aren't perhaps inherently interesting to watch on TV, I feel like we haven't really seen anything like that from Piper Chapman.

 

Most of those things have been mentioned in passing. Obviously, the track was important to Piper to run (she didn't just open it up again for Watson). She said it was the most important part of her day. We see her reading a good bit, getting new books, and going cube to cube to get back the books everyone stole from her.  We have seen her do yoga. And she mentions how she is excited to learn how to do electrical work (although that was part BS).

 

Like you say it wouldn't be too interesting to focus on but I do think we have seen that from her.

Edited December 17, 2014 by CherithCutestory

[MelsW]

Couple of things:  Piper Kerman does mention her upbringing and education a lot, but if anything, it's in a context that's the opposite of what you're implying; she goes out of her way to say that she isn't any better than the other women she's incarcerated with, and that she is fully aware how fortunate she was to have advantages that they didn't, especially when it came to legal representation.

 

I agree with this. I really enjoyed the book and came to like Piper (Kerman- the real one). She is well aware that she is from a privledged background and clearly spells out how much easier navigating prison and the legal system is for someone like her who is supported by friends, family, money, and top notch legal representation. As stated above, I think a lot of the negativity Piper Kerman receives is from people projecting their own class issues on the situation. It shouldn't be held against her that she comes from a family with money and is well educated, just as one shouldn't hold it against the other prisoners who come from poor families with loads of other socio-economic issue. None of us can help what situation we were born into on either end of the spectrum.

 

That's my long winded way of saying: read the book. I liked it much more than I thought I would, and this was before the TV show. Piper Kerman is much different than the fictional Piper Chapman. I read it for free (yay, public libraries!) and you can do the same if you are hesitant to fork over money.

[Hanahope]

I just started reading the book and it's fun to read about the real people on whom the show characters are based. It also made a bit more sense why Kerman pled guilty.  There was more evidence against her than just "Alex" saying she did the one transport, and while she perhaps had a good potential for a defense verdict (due to the relatively weaker evidence), the risk of a significantly longer prison sentence if she lost was a huge factor. 

 

I do think my favorite quote so far was by her lawyer (who wasn't her future FIL as in the show) who said her most difficult test in prison was going to be "following chickenshit rules made by chickenshit people."  Ain't that the truth.

[CherithCutestory]

There was more evidence against her than just "Alex" saying she did the one transport, and while she perhaps had a good potential for a defense verdict (due to the relatively weaker evidence), the risk of a significantly longer prison sentence if she lost was a huge factor.

 

She also did it several times in real life. I think our Piper could have pled to probation.

[Hanahope]

In regards to Kerman's more privileged background and such, I also noticed she makes a lot of references to the fact that because she is white, blonde and blue-eyed, she got more favored treatment from the prison officials (guards, COs, administration).  It always came across to me that she was pointing it out as evidence that she was luckier than most and that the system implicitly discriminates against those with darker hues (in all aspects).

 

I haven't yet finished the book, but one thing that does seem to be missing based on "all the stories about women's prisons" as well as even the show, is the sex.  Other than a couple of references to some women trying to make or smuggle in a dildo, and one instance about a lesbian starting to hit on her, there's been nothing. I had expected that there's be more reference to it, especially given what the TV show has (though can you imagine what it be like if say HBO had the story?).  Not that I really miss it, I just found it odd that there'd be next to nothing.

[Petunia13]

I read the book before watching the show. I checked it out from my library where I worked before becoming a dog groomer. My impression was she did talk quite a bit about her education, race, and background a bit too much for my liking. To point that I felt she was overcompensating for some objective. Like to show how liberal or open minded she was or prove the thesis that anyone could end up in jail- even a pretty, white, college educated girl. Gee willikers. It's like no shit. 50 percent of society is female, and white people aren't exactly rare in the US, additionally most fuck up often just like everyone else, and many people have at least a bachelors degree and from better schools - calm the fuck down you aren't a rarity. Her mentioning it every few pages and in "you should be blown away about this!" annoying to say the least.

[Hanahope]

So after finishing the book, I will say that I wasn't bothered by her reference to her education, race, etc.  I think what she was trying to emphasize is that the majority of women in prison (and probably men too), are poor, non-white, and much less educated.  They get a bit railroaded by the system, they have overworked public defenders that convince them to plead guilty to some maybe-lesser charge (maybe not) and get stuck with whatever prison term is agreed upon by others and is usually a longer sentence than really necessary.  She references her race/education because the guards and prison administrators comment how different she is from the majority of prisoners, and it was probably true.  I'd wager that most white educated well spoken women don't get sent to prison, they get probation. 

 

I don't think she was trying to imply she was better than these other women at all,  In fact, I thought she was trying to show that she wasn't any better, no different, than most of these others in that she committed a crime just like that did.  She acknowledged that she did get some better treatment, even though it wasn't really fair, but more to show that other women deserved better treatment too, or at least didn't deserve the worse treatment.  She acknowledged that she was very lucky and that these women needed better resources, especially when they got out of prison.

[Darian]

So after finishing the book, I will say that I wasn't bothered by her reference to her education, race, etc.  I think what she was trying to emphasize is that the majority of women in prison (and probably men too), are poor, non-white, and much less educated.  They get a bit railroaded by the system, they have overworked public defenders that convince them to plead guilty to some maybe-lesser charge (maybe not) and get stuck with whatever prison term is agreed upon by others and is usually a longer sentence than really necessary.  She references her race/education because the guards and prison administrators comment how different she is from the majority of prisoners, and it was probably true.  I'd wager that most white educated well spoken women don't get sent to prison, they get probation. 

 

I don't think she was trying to imply she was better than these other women at all,  In fact, I thought she was trying to show that she wasn't any better, no different, than most of these others in that she committed a crime just like that did.  She acknowledged that she did get some better treatment, even though it wasn't really fair, but more to show that other women deserved better treatment too, or at least didn't deserve the worse treatment.  She acknowledged that she was very lucky and that these women needed better resources, especially when they got out of prison.

I'm only halfway through but so far that's my impression.  I somehow didn't get Netflix until last month and wanted to read the book before I started watching the show (which many friends rave about). I downloaded the ebook and am ripping through it. Kerman brings us into her head as she was experiencing her life in prison, with the perspective she gained, and she must have had near-constant awareness of her privilege. So far, the references feel organic to me. As soon as I finish the book, I'll be power-watching the series.  

[Elder Wand]

I recently watched the tv show and I love it. I want know to read the book, but I just wonder if that would spoil too much of what is comming...

[Babalu]

I recently watched the tv show and I love it. I want know to read the book, but I just wonder if that would spoil too much of what is comming...

No, it wouldn't. The book has a very different tone than the series, and the series is only loosely based on the events and most of the characters in the book, especially as the seasons progress.