S02.E01: Coming Home

[S.Batts]

I can't remember but did Katherine and Eddie have sex before he told her the truth about D's baby being his?    Would TPTB actually go the same route again with Eddie and possibly have another woman pregnant with another child of his?  

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, S.Batts said:

I can't remember but did Katherine and Eddie have sex before he told her the truth about D's baby being his?    Would TPTB actually go the same route again with Eddie and possibly have another woman pregnant with another child of his?  

They didn't (but she did sleep with her co-worker once) and I really can't believe that Nash would be so stupid to bring in *another* pregnancy (please don't make me eat my words).  I mean, for it to happen they would have to make Katherine as stupid as Delilah and that WOULD be character assassination.

What wouldn't surprise me is if it comes out that Katherine wasn't able to have kids after Theo.  I honestly don't think something like that is necessary to make this story work. but Nash loves to overdo things.

[debraran]

23 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

They're obviously wholly inconsistent with how they depict it, but Maggie likely doesn't have metastatic breast cancer. She had a recurrence of her original breast cancer. If it's still localized, then it can still be "cured" as opposed to if it was metastatic cancer, where you just have to manage it for the rest of your life. So long as it is localized, it can be treated and you can be considered "cancer free" if there is no sign of cancer elsewhere in your body following the completion of your treatment. However, in that scenario, they're always going to be giving you medicine to help make sure it DOESN'T come back, ESPECIALLY if you have had a recurrence. It's absolute madness how they're treating her on the show. 

And she wanted to die and let it go.  I wonder if she’ll feel guilty later. I thought that storyline was odd too, brother or not. Hopefully in the past for a while.

[Gothish520]

On 9/27/2019 at 4:31 AM, debraran said:

That was over the top, no one would act like that today and how she was helping her was. I know they can't show the breast but having all those people around and not caring if the baby ate, seemed odd. I had 3 kids including twins, had very pro active lactation consultants (which I didn't keep in touch with) but that was odd.

She also could have pumped that great first milk and given breast milk in a bottle. I'm sure a pump would have worked, never had an issue with that latching on. ; )

Someone on this forum said that they have experienced someone exactly like that, actually even worse, and I have no trouble believing it. Zealots are indeed very real.

 

On 9/27/2019 at 7:49 AM, luna1122 said:

And they are all up in each other's business, like, WAY too much. People getting all butt-hurt about not knowing someone else's personal business is how you handle friendships in high school, not in grown up, forty something folks' lives. It's creepy. They're creepy.

This I totally agree with, lol. I am very close with my family, and have never really bonded that closely with anyone who wasn't blood except for my husband. I could not stand having all these other people up in my business and giving me attitude because I didn't tell them literally everything. 

 

On 9/29/2019 at 2:50 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I think that Delilah should have been reamed out, not hugged and told by everyone that everything's ok.

I think more people should have gotten angry at Delilah. 

The issue I have is the fact that Delilah hasn't gotten any consequences for her actions. I mean, yeah, there's a baby, but that's not a bad thing. Which is why I expect her kids to get pissed off enough. If they do, especially Sophie, then at least she's suffered some of the consequences to cheating. 

It's not that I want Delilah to lose everything and everyone. Even if I don't like her, I don't actually want that. But I want SOMEONE to acknowledge that what she did wasn't ok. I want Delilah to acknowledge that what she did was wrong. I don't want her actions to be handwaved. Eddie's suffering because he, himself, ruined his marriage. He knows it. He's still suffering and rightfully so. 

Delilah lost her husband, she has a new kid, but only one of those is related to her cheating on her husband for months (a year?). The only thing I want is for someone to acknowledge that Delilah is just as culpable in the affair as Eddie. I want someone to get really mad at her for more than a week. Gary forgave her immediately and was even having his birthday cake with her that very night that he found out. Delilah showed up to Regina's place and all she needed was to put on some puppy dog eyes for Regina to forgive her. But I can't really fully count Regina giving Delilah the cold shoulder for a week as a consequence. Maybe it's a small one, but for someone who cheated repeatedly, it's just not enough for me. 

I just don't want Delilah to get a pass like she has. That's all. Even if it's her daughter getting really angry with her and rebelling for a while, that would satisfy me enough. Well...I mean, I would be satisfied with Delilah leaving the show, but I know that's not going to happen so...I'll take whatever else I can get.

When the kids find out, Delilah will absolutely deserve whatever rancor they throw her way. She has skated relative to Eddie when it comes to the affair, definitely.

But, I do understand her being upset with Jon for keeping such a big secret. I would be extremely upset with my spouse if I found out they were suffering mentally and emotionally and hid it from me. To me, that is not what marriage is about, and it is a betrayal. To feel like you don't know what is going on with your spouse, and to have them check out of the relationship mentally with no explanations and feel like you don't know who they are anymore (or feel like you never did) is a betrayal. 

That in no way excuses her behavior and in no way excuses having an affair. Oy, Delilah, your chickens will come home to roost.

 

On 9/29/2019 at 4:31 PM, Neurochick said:

I don't expect people to act the way I think they should.  I'm not the moral police.

However, it is strange that not one person is upset with Delilah.  

Years ago I had a friend who I'd known for decades.  I stopped speaking to her for awhile because when her boyfriend told her he lied to her about being married and having kids, she just said, "okay," an stayed with him.  I did speak to her again years later, and now that she has passed away I wonder if I did the right thing, wasting those years because of MY feelings.  

My problem with Delilah wasn't that she had an affair, but that she felt the need to tell Eddie it was his child she was carrying.  To me there was NO good reason to tell him that.  I know you're as sick as your secrets, but she could have told that secret to a mental health professional or a pastor.  There was no good in telling Eddie.  What bugs me the most is that the person who will be impacted in the future will be Theo.  

Is the show really as big a hit as ABC says it is?

But then Gary would still know because he took Jon to get his vasectomy. Yes, I know they aren't 100%, but still, the odds are extremely low.

Delilah saw how upset Eddie was at the thought that she and Jon had sex after they started their affair, and told him the truth to reassure him that this was not the case. Damn, how twisted is that?

I have no trouble believing the show is a hit - it's a soap opera, and who doesn't love some over-the-top draaaaaama?

RE: your friend, did her boyfriend leave his wife to be with her? Did they stay together for a long period of time? 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Someone on this forum said that they have experienced someone exactly like that, actually even worse, and I have no trouble believing it. Zealots are indeed very real.

There are definitely zealots out there--I encountered more than a few of them.  It's just that it is rare that they are employed as lactation consultants.  No hospital administration would stand for a patient being treated like that for long.  You are  more likely to find them in some sort of private employment (running support groups that might be associated with a hospital or clinic) or in the La Leche League.

To be fair, though, I have a friend who was the head of the local LLL when I had my babies and she was nothing like that, although many in the group were.

My problem with it is this: Every show on television, streaming, etc has some level of responsibility.  You can't present something like this that basically maligns an entire profession, one that women will encounter in one of their most vulnerable hours.  Yeah, it does happen--but it is the exception, not the rule.  This show, which markets to a female audience, just put something out there that is not only not true, but also breeds distrust among its audience.

If Nash wanted to show that some women are judged for not breastfeeding, have Delilah go to a LLL meeting, or really any mommy group. I also don't know why we even needed this story line.  To show how horrible it is for Delilah to be judged?  Trust me, Delilah is judged for a lot of things.  Not being able to breast feed is probably the one thing that the audience doesn't judge her for.  

And, if it was all a ploy to garner sympathy for Delilah, it didn't work...

Edited October 1, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[Gothish520]

35 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

There are definitely zealots out there--I encountered more than a few of them.  It's just that it is rare that they are employed as lactation consultants.  No hospital administration would stand for a patient being treated like that for long.  You are  more likely to find them in some sort of private employment (running support groups that might be associated with a hospital or clinic) or in the La Leche League.

To be fair, though, I have a friend who was the head of the local LLL when I had my babies and she was nothing like that, although many in the group were.

My problem with it is this: Every show on television, streaming, etc has some level of responsibility.  You can't present something like this that basically maligns an entire profession, one that women will encounter in one of their most vulnerable hours.  Yeah, it does happen--but it is the exception, not the rule.  This show, which markets to a female audience, just put something out there that is not only not true, but also breeds distrust among its audience.

If Nash wanted to show that some women are judged for not breastfeeding, have Delilah go to a LLL meeting, or really any mommy group. I also don't know why we even needed this story line.  To show how horrible it is for Delilah to be judged?  Trust me, Delilah is judged for a lot of things.  Not being able to breast feed is probably the one thing that the audience doesn't judge her for.  

And, if it was all a ploy to garner sympathy for Delilah, it didn't work...

I don't feel that he maligned a profession, I feel he maligned that douchebag of a character. And I don't think it was to garner sympathy for Delilah as much as it was to give a different perspective. For that reason I heartily applaud it, as it did shine a light on a subject that can be very divisive.

I also don't understand why people get upset when a show depicts something that "happens but not often" or is "the exception but not the rule". First off, I have no statistics on how many crappy breastfeeding gurus are out there, but I have no trouble believing that there are more than one or two. Second, even of it's only happened once ever, that doesn't preclude a showrunner from depicting it if they so desire.

@casachess said: FWIW, I've had six kids and while some of the lactation consultants I've had have been great, others have absolutely been 100% like the one in the show. One was actually WORSE. It got so bad that my daughter dropped more than 10% of her birth weight and we HAD to give her formula, and she ate the entire bottle in like, two seconds (because she was starving!!), and the LC watched and called her a brat. That entire scene actually rang very true to me -- the overbearing LC who cares more about feeding HER way bullying a tired, stressed mom who is in pain... BTDT.

Lactivisim is unfortunately a very real thing. 😕 

That's more than enough for me. 

I also don't get why Nash has to be mentioned in so many posts. Or any showrunner, for that matter. I don't even know the names of the the folks in charge of most of my shows, and wouldn't know Nash's name if not for this board. If people are thinking so much about showrunners and writers and directors, then perhaps the show itself is not for them.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

RE: your friend, did her boyfriend leave his wife to be with her? Did they stay together for a long period of time? 

Yes he did leave his wife to be with my friend.  They got married and were married for about 15 years, when she, my friend, died.

[HazelEyes4325]

I was chatting with a friend who dumped this show in season 1 (because of Delilah), but ended up watching this episode (because her dog was asleep on her lap while she was watching Grey's and she couldn't reach the remote).  She brought another issue up that makes Jon's vasectomy even more perplexing.

It would be hard to believe that Jon had a vasectomy without Delilah knowing about it.  If that were the case, she would have been on more reliable birth control, thinking that pregnancy with her husband would still be possible.  So, making the very safe assumption that she did know, that makes her willingness to get pregnant so perplexing.  What if Jon hadn't died?  How would she have explained this pregnancy to him?  I suppose that she could have used it as her ticket out, but  she didn't know she was pregnant when she kind of sort of tried to leave him.  There is no way she could have convinced him the baby was his, short of forcing him to watching the scenes in Mr. Mom where Michael Keaton's character becomes obsessed with The Young and the Restless and the early 80's story line where Victor's vasectomy didn't take (and how sad is it that THAT is what I remember from that movie?)

My friend also complained that everyone's (except Katherine's) reaction to Eddie being the father was beyond unbelievable.  There are two ways they should be upset: One is the "refresher" that Delilah cheated on Jon and the other is that Delilah lied to all of them AGAIN.  And, keep in mind, *she* didn't come clean about it and, if Gary hadn't known about the convenient vasectomy and Eddie hadn't gone into the delivery room, Delilah would have been able to keep the lie alive.

There are so many strands in this show that don't make any sense.  I know that there are very few broadcast shows that aren't a bit sloppy, but Nash is one of the sloppiest showrunners I've run across in a long time.  

Oh, and my friend says she's going to make sure she keeps the remote nearby from now on...

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I was chatting with a friend who dumped this show in season 1 (because of Delilah), but ended up watching this episode (because her dog was asleep on her lap while she was watching Grey's and she couldn't reach the remote). 

...

Oh, and my friend says she's going to make sure she keeps the remote nearby from now on...

Now that is a loving dog parent!

[Chewy101]

10 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Now that is a loving dog parent!

I wish there were more dogs on this show and less babies. I am not looking forward to Delilah being unable to care for this kid and we see how it "takes a village" with the subtlety of a sledgehammer all season. I do not get why they are so involved. 

[alexvillage]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:13 PM, Gothish520 said:

I don't feel that he maligned a profession, I feel he maligned that douchebag of a character. And I don't think it was to garner sympathy for Delilah as much as it was to give a different perspective. For that reason I heartily applaud it, as it did shine a light on a subject that can be very divisive.

I also don't understand why people get upset when a show depicts something that "happens but not often" or is "the exception but not the rule". First off, I have no statistics on how many crappy breastfeeding gurus are out there, but I have no trouble believing that there are more than one or two. Second, even of it's only happened once ever, that doesn't preclude a showrunner from depicting it if they so desire.

Agree with this and add: Sometimes people believe that what they see are "exceptions" but for certain minorities, it is actually the rule. Things like black women during childbirth being neglected when they complain about feeling that something is not right, or disabled people being denied - yes, denied - care because it is "too hard" to gather the information needed. If we pay attention, when those things happen to white people, it becomes an aberration, an "exception".

Now, if the writers did this because of their social awareness or to make Delilah more sympathetic to the viewers is another story. I am seeing a pattern of writing that tells me this show is written by men who don't seem to have a close relationship with women. They - the men - are all saviors, the voice of reason, in open or subtle ways. The only character who didn't need a savior has to be the selfless, forgiving one who gets screwed and probably will be bullied into being "nice" because the bay is not to blame, the baby's mother shouldn't be stressed. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

Agree with this and add: Sometimes people believe that what they see are "exceptions" but for certain minorities, it is actually the rule. Things like black women during childbirth being neglected when they complain about feeling that something is not right, or disabled people being denied - yes, denied - care because it is "too hard" to gather the information needed. If we pay attention, when those things happen to white people, it becomes an aberration, an "exception".

Now, if the writers did this because of their social awareness or to make Delilah more sympathetic to the viewers is another story. I am seeing a pattern of writing that tells me this show is written by men who don't seem to have a close relationship with women. They - the men - are all saviors, the voice of reason, in open or subtle ways. The only character who didn't need a savior has to be the selfless, forgiving one who gets screwed and probably will be bullied into being "nice" because the bay is not to blame, the baby's mother shouldn't be stressed. 

Excellent comment.

I think someone said up thread somewhere that one of the writers had encountered a lactation person like this one. I have no trouble believing that, because writers use experiences from their own lives, for better or worse. I could see myself writing this scene to get the "I should have said" payoff. (I had similar, though less fraught, experience - difference was I didn't allow myself to be persuaded I was a bad mother. And no scenes were made, I just did what I was going to do and to hell with them.)

I hadn't thought of the men all being saviors - which is valid, though I have trouble remembering how Eddie's been a savior.

And as for Delilah, one of the reasons she makes me tear my hair out is that I had a long time friend just like her. So while I hate the character, I recognize that there are actually people like her in the world. They are unpleasant to deal with in real life, and boring and frustrating to watch on tv.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Excellent comment.

I think someone said up thread somewhere that one of the writers had encountered a lactation person like this one. I have no trouble believing that, because writers use experiences from their own lives, for better or worse. I could see myself writing this scene to get the "I should have said" payoff. (I had similar, though less fraught, experience - difference was I didn't allow myself to be persuaded I was a bad mother. And no scenes were made, I just did what I was going to do and to hell with them.)

I hadn't thought of the men all being saviors - which is valid, though I have trouble remembering how Eddie's been a savior.

And as for Delilah, one of the reasons she makes me tear my hair out is that I had a long time friend just like her. So while I hate the character, I recognize that there are actually people like her in the world. They are unpleasant to deal with in real life, and boring and frustrating to watch on tv.

I agree with most of this,  except I don't find Delilah boring or frustrating - yet. I am fascinated by the depiction of a  woman whom everyone (in her world) seems to adore, and who people see as a victim of bad circumstances rather than someone who has made bad decisions and bad choices. 

But she is not mean or evil, there is no ill will. She has been loving and caring to her family and friends. She just has that "oh dear, this all too much for me" dithering way about her, and she has that French accent and French charm, that mystique that people find alluring and disarming. I definitely understand why people find her annoying,  but I'm entertained.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

And as for Delilah, one of the reasons she makes me tear my hair out is that I had a long time friend just like her. So while I hate the character, I recognize that there are actually people like her in the world. They are unpleasant to deal with in real life, and boring and frustrating to watch on tv.

Oh yeah, there are definitely people like her in the world.  However, the people in the world actually have to deal with consequences, which Delilah apparently does not.  The real life people lose relationships for their behavior, are called out on it, etc.  And, no, it might not make them change, but they do end up having to deal with some fall out from their behavior in some way or another.  Delilah...does not.

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I hadn't thought of the men all being saviors - which is valid, though I have trouble remembering how Eddie's been a savior.

Eddie was a savior because he was the tool that allowed Delilah to "get back" at Jon.  He also fawned all over her as she felt she should have been.  Delilah wants something, in this case an ego boost, and finds a guy to give her exactly what she thinks she needs.

And, to be fair, it doesn't have to be a man.  Delilah doesn't have the...whatever...to stand up to the evil lactation consultant, so Maggie does it for her.  Delilah seems to have really gone to great lengths to surround herself with people who will serve her, hasn't she?

Edited October 6, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[alexvillage]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I hadn't thought of the men all being saviors - which is valid, though I have trouble remembering how Eddie's been a savior.

Good point. Eddie is a child, he is "learning" and his redemption is based on him acknowledging he was wrong and promising never to lie again. Eve ever pinky swear (rolls eyes)

Edited October 6, 2019 by alexvillage
missing letter

[OpalNightstream]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:13 PM, Gothish520 said:

I also don't get why Nash has to be mentioned in so many posts. Or any showrunner, for that matter. I don't even know the names of the the folks in charge of most of my shows, and wouldn't know Nash's name if not for this board. If people are thinking so much about showrunners and writers and directors, then perhaps the show itself is not for them.

Yes to all this. 

[Anela]

Eddie is a douche, and my sister and I didn't breastfeed. We made it to adulthood.