Early Pilot Reviews

[Kromm]

Speculation based on recent casting:

 

Given that Robbie Amell has been announced as playing Caitlin's (former?) fiancé, I'm guessing he's not really dead. Maybe he'll first show up in flashbacks, but I doubt that'll be all we see of him.

Given the

NAME of the character he's playing, even though the backstory seems to have been majorly changed from the comics, I think his fate is actually reasonably clear. He's alive, but transformed into a metahuman--Firestorm.

[Ariah]

I must admit that the thing that really really got to me (and made me say: "I'll watch it") was seeing the guy who played Flash in the past as Barry's father.

 

I haven't read any spoilers about casting, so I was surprised. I loved that old series!

 

Anyway, I don't care about the special effects and the plot was pretty generic / introduction. If Iris will be clueless for more than three epiodes, it will become riddiculous, but the future headline reveal is kind of intriguing. Also - what actually did kill Barry's maother? Excessive speed? Electricity? Her body seemed pretty intact. Did the high speed suck the air out of her lungs?...

[Kromm]

Exactly, but the team dynamic has to work for the show in order for that to happen.

Yeah, I'm not as sold that a "Scooby Gang" is now as inherent to success as people say.  A lot of good shows have featured central characters without them.  It's become increasing formulaic to have one, and just as a general thing that bothers me. 

 

It's not that you don't need other characters.  You do.  But there's something to be said for a hero that remains a little aloof/mysterious, and a story setup that uses other mechanisms to decipher him or her.  

 

Flash probably IS okay for a Scooby Gang, but mostly because other than the thing with his father in jail, and his mom dead, and the deadly pest Zoom haning around, he's a "light" character anyway, and by making him even younger the show has emphasized his outgoing qualities.

But that doesn't mean we always need that "Scooby Gang" vibe in every damn show now. This being one where it probably helps/is okay doesn't change that overall sense that it's getting hackneyed.

[FurryFury]

Personally, I'm all for ensemble casts on TV, mostly because 99% of lead characters are absolutely boring to me by themselves. They are usually written to be relatable, an in many cases, it means "not having enough personality". I can probably count the number of shows on which I really loved main characters on one hand.

At least, with ensembles, there's a good chance you'll find someone to root for in any case.

Edited July 12, 2014 by FurryFury

[FAU]

Yeah, I'm not as sold that a "Scooby Gang" is now as inherent to success as people say.  A lot of good shows have featured central characters without them.  It's become increasing formulaic to have one, and just as a general thing that bothers me. 

 

It's not that you don't need other characters.  You do.  But there's something to be said for a hero that remains a little aloof/mysterious, and a story setup that uses other mechanisms to decipher him or her.  

 

Flash probably IS okay for a Scooby Gang, but mostly because other than the thing with his father in jail, and his mom dead, and the deadly pest Zoom haning around, he's a "light" character anyway, and by making him even younger the show has emphasized his outgoing qualities.

But that doesn't mean we always need that "Scooby Gang" vibe in every damn show now. This being one where it probably helps/is okay doesn't change that overall sense that it's getting hackneyed.

 

You're right that it always doesn't work, but like I said before, the characters/dynamics need to work.

 

 

Personally, I'm all for ensemble casts on TV, mostly because 99% of lead characters are absolutely boring to me by themselves. They are usually written to be relatable, an in many cases, it means "not having enough personality". I can probably count the number of shows on which I really loved main characters on one hand.

At least, with ensembles, there's a good chance you'll find someone to root for in any case.

 

Exactly, more often than not, I feel the main characters tend to be bland, stock characters.

Edited July 13, 2014 by FAU

[In2You]

You can have an ensemble cast without giving the hero a team and in Barry's case it would be fairly easy since he has a regular day to day job. 

[FAU]

You can have an ensemble cast without giving the hero a team and in Barry's case it would be fairly easy since he has a regular day to day job. 

 

True, but the other characters he inters with on a day to day basis has to be interesting enough to carry the show.

[bluebonnet]

Why wouldn't the superhero have a team?  It's sort of the basic formula for superheroes.  

[Kromm]

Why wouldn't the superhero have a team?  It's sort of the basic formula for superheroes.  

Superman - no team (I'm not counting the Justice League since it's not "basic" to his character)

Spiderman - no team

Thor - no team (again, not counting The Avengers, since it's not the base of his character)

Wonder Woman - no team

Hulk - no team

Daredevil - no team

 

Plenty more, those are just off the top of my head.  And I'm including both "support people" as well as hero partners/sidekicks in this.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kromm

[Chicago Redshirt]

Depending on what time frame and incarnation you're talking about, most of the folks you have named have had teams. And I also think it's unfair to say the teams that they have been in are not "basic" to their characters. Each of the heroes you name have both had been part of premier teams in their universes (Justice League for the DC characters and Avengers and/or Fantastic Four):

 

Superman: his teammates have included Supergirl, Superboy, Krypto the Super Dog, Streaky the Super Cat, Guardian, Steel, and civilians like Lois, Jimmy, Maggie Sawyer, Dr. Emil Hamilton. I think there was even a "Superman Family" book for a while. Not to mention his frequent team-ups with Batman and (as Superboy) the Legion of Superheroes.

 

Spider-man: in cartoons, he has had the Spider-Friends (Iceman and Firestar), in comics, he was partners with the Black Cat and has had regular allies.

 

Thor: He is teammates with various Asgardians -- Sif, the Warriors Three and Balder.

 

Wonder Woman: similarly, her team would include various Amazons. She also has had two Wonder Girls as partners.

 

Hulk: There was a cartoon "Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H." In the comics, Hulk originally had Rick Jones and his Teen Brigade to watch his back.  In WW Hulk, he had a bunch of gladiators as his teammates.  

 

Daredevil: He was longtime partners with Black Widow and part of Marvel Knights.

 

And most of the characters pretty much had a bunch of supporting characters who were essentially their Team, except they were limited in what they could do because of their lack of knowledge of the hero's secret identity. 

 

Superman had all his people at the Daily Planet: Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and various other people who were thrown in the mix. Spider-Man had his Daily Bugle people (minus JJJ) and Flash Thompson and Harry Obsorn. Thor in various incarnations had Jane Foster.

[FurryFury]

Comic books and TV are two vastly different mediums (even TV shows based on comics). I don't think it's fair to compare them.

 

 

You can have an ensemble cast without giving the hero a team and in Barry's case it would be fairly easy since he has a regular day to day job.

Yes, it's possible to do an ensemble show without it being about a team. But in an action adventure show, it would feel awkward, most likely, while the team approach has proven itself time and again. When it comes to Barry's regular job, I'm not really interested in his co-workers who don't know his secret and don't do the hero stuff/don't participate in action, because this is an action show.

Edited July 16, 2014 by FurryFury

[In2You]

Comic books and TV are two vastly different mediums (even TV shows based on comics). I don't think it's fair to compare them.

 

Yes, it's possible to do an ensemble show without it being about a team. But in an action adventure show, it would feel awkward, most likely, while the team approach has proven itself time and again. When it comes to Barry's regular job, I'm not really interested in his co-workers who don't know his secret and don't do the hero stuff/don't participate in action, because this is an action show.

But his coworkers do participate in the action. He works for the police department! They're tracking down the same criminals he is. They just don't have superpowers. But then again so far neither does his team at the moment. 

[CabotCove]

I don't know where anyone is seeing chemistry between Barry and Caitlin. There was nothing there.

 

For me, there was chemistry. I also saw potential with Caitlin and Cisco.

And I also actually really like Cisco, which doesnt seem to be popular around here. He was one of the highlights in the pilot for me. And the whole Team Flash seem to have chemistry and work well together, Imo, so yeah I would like to see more.

 

Why do writers do this? Make the purported female lead dull while making some other girl more interesting and engaging?

 

Out of habit, I guess. They dont want to go out of their comfort zone.

 

i wasn't sure why, i saw some sparks and yea she was a bit woody (but than again this is the pilot and we don't really know her backstory and who she is so there might be more to her that will help the actress open up the character) but still likable,

 

Well we do know she lost her fiance, (she said so) in that terrible disaster, that inflicted the whole city. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Conell

[FAU]

 

Out of habit, I guess. They dont want to go out of their comfort zone.

 

It's a shame because they should actually learn from their mistakes.

Edited July 17, 2014 by FAU

[In2You]

I wouldn't exactly call Caitlin engaging or more interesting either. Neither female was exactly fleshed out in the pilot. 

[JayKay]

While I like the character so far, I don't think I'm supposed to find Caitlin arresting and charismatic. She's put up an expressionless wall. The first time we see her, the song playing is "Pokerface." Cisco was even singing along, just to draw attention to it even though that song hasn't fit into the CW's "trendy new music" niche since 2009. She's disconnected and it works because it enhances when she isn't, like that moment towards the end of the episode.

 

Iris was cute and funny and made me care about her, and that's all I ask. Their personalities are nothing alike imo, and that's fine. I'm already dreading the fandom this show will sprout once it airs. Might have to watch it in a vacuum.

[Kromm]

Depending on what time frame and incarnation you're talking about, most of the folks you have named have had teams. And I also think it's unfair to say the teams that they have been in are not "basic" to their characters. Each of the heroes you name have both had been part of premier teams in their universes (Justice League for the DC characters and Avengers and/or Fantastic Four):

Sure it's fair.  "Basic" to me means "origin".  

 

It means the test would be if you literally couldn't talk about the character without referring to the Team.  If you can, then the team is not basic to their character.  "Premier" team membership or not, you could literally throw away their membership in the team and still be able to tell a primal and essential story about them.

 

And the statement was that teams are basic to the whole inherent FORMULA of superheroes.  No.  In my opinion it's not even close.  Teams make for great comics, but the biggest and best known superheroes take their basic identities and adventures from non-team situations.  The Fantastic Four and The X-Men are really the only cases where we've got major superheroes defined by a team structure.  Being on The Avengers or in The Justice League isn't the same, because the core heroes in those teams (not all heroes, but the core--the most commercially successful and best known too) don't rely on those teams to exist.  Superman is Superman, with or without The Justice League.  Spider-Man is Spider-Man with our without The Avengers (and in fact spend most of his existence nowhere near being an Avenger).  Hulk is DEFINITELY Hulk without a Team (although admittedly its fun to have him on one, because it's such a different dynamic than his solo adventures).  Compare it to the Invisible Woman though.  Sure you could TELL stories with her without a Team.  But you can't talk about how she got to be who she was without talking about the Team.  It's basic to her.  

 

Bringing this back around to The Flash (I promised myself I would). I don't think a hero team is very basic to him, but I'd also argue even a Scooby Gang Support Team isn't really.  Not that I'm saying it won't work, just that as I said earlier, I think it might have been even more interesting without one.  The character historically has worked pretty well as a lone wolf, who DOES have a large "cast" around him for sure, but they're inserted in other ways than as his "assistants".

Edited July 18, 2014 by Kromm

[CabotCove]

While I like the character so far, I don't think I'm supposed to find Caitlin arresting and charismatic. She's put up an expressionless wall. The first time we see her, the song playing is "Pokerface." Cisco was even singing along, just to draw attention to it even though that song hasn't fit into the CW's "trendy new music" niche since 2009. She's disconnected and it works because it enhances when she isn't, like that moment towards the end of the episode.

 

 

Good analysis. 

I for one have seen enough to be engaged and interested in the character, (and overall Team Flash). 

[Skyline]

While I like the character so far, I don't think I'm supposed to find Caitlin arresting and charismatic. She's put up an expressionless wall. The first time we see her, the song playing is "Pokerface." Cisco was even singing along, just to draw attention to it even though that song hasn't fit into the CW's "trendy new music" niche since 2009. She's disconnected and it works because it enhances when she isn't, like that moment towards the end of the episode.

Iris was cute and funny and made me care about her, and that's all I ask. Their personalities are nothing alike imo, and that's fine. I'm already dreading the fandom this show will sprout once it airs. Might have to watch it in a vacuum.

I''m already dreading the fandom this show will sprout once it airs. Might have to watch it in a vacuum.

Unfortunately, it's already started.

There was a Barry/Iris post on the Flash Facebook page that was inundated by Felicity fans. A whole lot of "Felicity is better than Iris" type comments.

I've noticed a lot of people who ship Barry/Caitlin also ship Olicity on Arrow. Caitlin is Felicity 2.0 in their eyes. I pray the writers don't engage in fan pandering. There's enough of that going around.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Lisin

[In2You]

You guys should see the Tumblr hashtags relating to this show. The fanwars started before the pilot even leaked.

[Sakura12]

I should stay away from tumblr tags for this show then. I never start a show just for the ship. I don't care who Barry hooks up with, I just want the Flash to be entertaining. 

[In2You]

I should stay away from tumblr tags for this show then. I never start a show just for the ship. I don't care who Barry hooks up with, I just want the Flash to be entertaining. 

Its not even just in the show's hastags its in the actors tags too so you can't even check for promotional pictures before stumbling upon fan wars. I don't understand how someone can start a show and ship a couple before they even see them together onscreen actually interacting.

[Sakura12]

I don't understand how someone can start a show and ship a couple before they even see them together onscreen actually interacting.

 

I don't understand that either. I have to see both characters, see them together, see the chemistry between the actors, and most importantly I have to like both characters as individuals before I ship them. But I just might have a lot requirements for my ships. 

 

Since the most any of us could've seen was the pilot for this show, there wasn't enough interactions between the characters for me to form a real opinion on any of them let alone start shipping them. 

[CabotCove]

I don't understand how someone can start a show and ship a couple before they even see them together onscreen actually interacting.

 

 

The pilot was leaked early though (one full episode), so its safe to say many who wanted to, have seen the characters interacting onscreen together for the first time, so therefore can make a judgement and analysis on what they like and prefer to ship. I have seen Barry/Iris shippers too, they exist, as do Barry/Caitlin. And I personally dont think it can ever be too early (or two late) to like or ship something, a lot can happen between two people in a matter of seconds,a smile or a joke an ignite passion for something, it can make a difference.  A trailer is supposed to sell the show to you in a matter of seconds or minutes and thats what happens with everything which is part of the show, action, relationships, characters, plots etc. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by Conell

[In2You]

The pilot was leaked early though (one full episode), so its safe to say many who wanted to, have seen the characters interacting onscreen together for the first time, so therefore can make a judgement and analysis on what they like and prefer to ship. I have seen Barry/Iris shippers too, they exist, as do Barry/Caitlin. And I personally dont think it can ever be too early (or two late) to like or ship something, a lot can happen between two people in a matter of seconds,a smile or a joke an ignite passion for something, it can make a difference.  A trailer is supposed to sell the show to you in a matter of seconds or minutes and thats what happens with everything which is part of the show, action, relationships, characters, plots etc. 

People were shipping before the pilot was leaked. Hell people were shipping before the pilot was filmed.

[Lord Kira]

People were shipping before the pilot was leaked. Hell people were shipping before the pilot was filmed.

To be fair, we already saw Barry on Arrow, and Caitlin as well. So thinking about how those two characters would go together on the same show is only natural.

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is tired of the destined romance pairings pairings. People didn't react kindly to Lois on Smallville or Laurel on Arrow. I think this is partly because it takes much of the tension and mystery out of character interactions. Shoddy writing for those destined characters doesn't help.

 

In addition to all of that, much of the Iris 'hate' comes from the fact that at her core she sounds awfully like Laurel. Right down to the over-protective cop father. The same writers handling the character doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

 

Still, I don't have Iris on my hate list yet. Pilots are never an example of what a show will be.

[In2You]

There's no mystery to a Barry and Caitlin pairing either. I've seen that type of pairing alot more recently on TV. The lowly wallflower getting the guy happens alot especially in YA fiction.