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FireFoxy

Early Pilot Reviews

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Soooo, the pilot leaked. Anyone else watch? I loved it!

 

I don't know if a review of the pilot belongs here, but I don't see another appropriate thread.

 

I also loved the pilot. The cast has great chemistry. I'm liking Team Flash. All the DC easter eggs. I even liked the Arrow cameo even if Oliver seemed like he was from a few seasons in the future. (He was almost peppy.) And I am very intrigued by the ending. I'll refrain from going into more detail until we get a thread or find out if this is the right spot, but I'm very excited for the season.

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That definitely exceeded my expectations.  We more or less knew all that would be included in the pilot since the trailer summarized it, but it still had me on the edge of my seat at times.  I was worried to go into this show because of how bad Arrow bungled a specific character and the chemistry issues that made it not so enjoyable.  I'm very pleased to see that the cast has such great chemistry.  The inevitable love triangles don't appear that they will be a turn off because I found each character believable in their role and in their relationship with other characters.  

 

I haven't read the comics and haven't even gone into comic spoilers so any speculation I was doing was purely from what I saw in the trailer.  From the trailer, I figured that Harrison Wells was not as he appeared and I sort of worried that they would maintain the mystery of his mystery or else make the reveal for the audience dumb and cliche.  Yet, already knowing that he was going to be something more, it was still pretty awesome seeing how they revealed it to the audience.

 

Yup, I'm definitely on board with this show when it starts in the fall.  I'm assuming this leaking of the pilot was done on the sly to garner excitement, and it definitely did.  I'm not sure I would have tuned in until at least midseason, probably later when the first season is released on dvd.  

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I mostly liked it, though I hope Iris gets more to do in future episodes. Not that keen on that whole "she musn't know what you can do" stuff.

 

The only character who really annoyed me was the younger scientist guy (Cisco?). Not just because he wore a Bazinga t-shirt, but that didn't help.

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Harrison Wells is faking his disability -- and his superpower after the accident is that he can see the future (the headline from 2024 at the end, about the Flash missing) or is that some sort of special machine he built.  But apparently the Flash will be doing good for at least another 10 years.  Was Wellington implying that there may be hundreds of possibly thousands of supes in Central city after the accident ?

 

The yellowish thing that attacked and killed Barrie's mom (or did he ?) was stupid -- why would whatever it was attack his mom like that ?  Unless it's a time traveler from the future -- maybe Barrie killed his own mom in some sort of incarnation as the 'evil Flash' (all dressed in yellow in Barri'ss flashbacks).  Or maybe the Flash came back from the Future, and ran around her to create a vortex and took her back to the Future with him.

 

And what's with fluids going all anti-gravity whenever the funkiness that gives superspeed power to anyone is in play ?

 

I thought this was an episode of Law and Order when Jesse L. Martin showed up as Det. West -- his character is nearly identical to Det. Lance on 'Arrow', complete with a child who is personally close to the primary super-individual of the show.  Plus, having Det. West's daughter working at a diner is also oddly similar to Diggle's almost sister-in-law on Arrow.  Heck, Barrie Allen even has his own version of super-techno geekgirl Felicity Smoak in Caitlin Snow.  They really didn't stray far from the 'Arrow' formula.

 

They've established that Central City is about 600 miles from Starling City, probably still on the West Coast (as it looks like Flash is also filmed in Vancouver).

 

I also wish they would piss off with the "I am <insert character's name>" nonsense at the start of the episode (or in this case, the end of the episode) -- it sucks on 'Arrow', and it really sucked on 'The Tomorrow People'.

 

Interesting thing -- on TVrage.com, several characters are listed with nicknames that may be based on superpowers they acquire.  Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost, Cisco Ramon/Vibe and Detective Eddie Thawne/Professor Zoom (Thawne is the guy that Iris is currently making googly eyes with Iris West).

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I gave it a go, having nothing else to watch at the moment. I don't see it lasting that long, to be honest. Gustin still doesn't have the charisma to headline a show, in my view, and the SFX are too ropey to be taken seriously for long. The supporting cast was decent, and I liked seeing Tom Cavanagh, who is as charismatic and slightly offbeat as I remember him being in other things. Increase his role, and they might be onto something. The long haired guy was kind of annoying, and will get old very quickly. Cop Surrogate Dad was okay, but a bit too much like Lance to really stand out.

 

I can definitely see a lot of fans rejecting Iris in favour or Caitlin as Barry's love interest, as was predicted by a few people a while back. The fact Iris is the only one not in the know about Barry's powers really is not a good starting point, and her disconnect from the main thrust of the storyline in this episode was kind of unavoidable. With her being on the outside, both with the cops and with Barry and his new pals, I can see her becoming very tangential, much like another female character we all know and... well, mostly don't love. Why do writers do this? Make the purported female lead dull while making some other girl more interesting and engaging?

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This was exactly what I expected when I watched the extended trailer : some sort of Smallville 2.0 (same set-up, same "all the freaks-of-the-week are connected to the incident that made the hero what he is", same bland lead, same relationships, same DC-related anvils, same tropes, same heavy-handed writing, same bullet-time), with a slightly bigger budget (that said, it remains to be seen how the show will fare once really launched, cos sfx & visuals weren't always the greatest either, here), a rushed script (no pun intended) lacking motivations & w/ too many shortcuts, and with Geoff Johns' handprints everywhere (that's not really a good thing in my book). Nothing felt earned, emotionally speaking, so it all fell flat, as far as i'm concerned.

 

So in short : not impressed, at all. So far, every single (tv or movie) DC project has engineered these past few years has left me less and less impressed with the brand, which really bums me out, since I'm a DC guy at heart. And thus I won't trade my John Wesley Shipp Flash for this one... yet.

Edited by Kaoteek

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I really enjoyed Barry and Iris's friendship.

 

The Star Labs team annoyed me. Cisco seems to be that annoying comic relief nerd I can't stand that writers love to keep at the forefront and make into heros. I didn't find Caitlin endearing at all. Danielle was very wooden in this pilot. 

 

That whole scene with the Green Arrow felt out of place and could've been left out the pilot. 

 

I was just watching Justice League/Justice League Unlimited this weekend so of course some of those plots were running through my mind.

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I can definitely see a lot of fans rejecting Iris in favour or Caitlin as Barry's love interest, as was predicted by a few people a while back. The fact Iris is the only one not in the know about Barry's powers really is not a good starting point, and her disconnect from the main thrust of the storyline in this episode was kind of unavoidable. With her being on the outside, both with the cops and with Barry and his new pals, I can see her becoming very tangential, much like another female character we all know and... well, mostly don't love. Why do writers do this? Make the purported female lead dull while making some other girl more interesting and engaging?

 

already starting to get there...

i wasn't sure why, i saw some sparks and yea she was a bit woody (but than again this is the pilot and we don't really know her backstory and who she is so there might be more to her that will help the actress open up the character) but still likable, so was Iris to be honest- and i wasn't sure why something about Iris was off until you mentioned the Laurel Effect. i hope they will find a way to not ruin it on the Flash. i do think Barry and Iris have alot more chemistry than Cassidy and Amell do, and they have a better and happier history so that's a start.

It was a good pilot, not great- not even as good as Arrow pilot. but there's potential- i do actually sort of like Barry, Caitlin, Iris and Wells.

I am though intrigued by that newspaper bit that came up, the bottom left with the Wayne-Queen merger.. that is interesting to see, which makes me wonder if any of the bat family will be visiting Arrow- personally i'd like to see Batwoman, but i digress.

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already starting to get there...

i wasn't sure why, i saw some sparks and yea she was a bit woody (but than again this is the pilot and we don't really know her backstory and who she is so there might be more to her that will help the actress open up the character) but still likable, so was Iris to be honest- and i wasn't sure why something about Iris was off until you mentioned the Laurel Effect. i hope they will find a way to not ruin it on the Flash. i do think Barry and Iris have alot more chemistry than Cassidy and Amell do, and they have a better and happier history so that's a start.

It was a good pilot, not great- not even as good as Arrow pilot. but there's potential- i do actually sort of like Barry, Caitlin, Iris and Wells.

I am though intrigued by that newspaper bit that came up, the bottom left with the Wayne-Queen merger.. that is interesting to see, which makes me wonder if any of the bat family will be visiting Arrow- personally i'd like to see Batwoman, but i digress.

 

I really hope it's not Laurel 2.0, I don't want to go down that road again, so far it's a step up from the sister swapping mess and there's actually friendship there as a basis so far.

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.Oh my goddess, the show actually lampshades the fact that his healing is infinitely more important than his heroism. Then ignores it. It's like the herbs on the arrow all over again.
RE: Iris: I loved the sibling / friend dynamic, but Barry having an unrequited crush on her is a bad, bad idea. Either make them an actual couple or keep it purely platonic. Because I am Not Here For nice guy pining. Urgh.

Keeping her in the dark about what is going on is even worse and compounds the problem with the nice guy pining, because that guarantees her entire role will be damsel in distress and person the nominal hero lies to. Bad, bad place to have your nominal love interest. It makes the hero look like an asshole, and makes the love interest boring, because without knowing the score, they can have no agency whatsoever in the plot.

 

 The lab crew, I generally like.

The bankrobber was mad as a hatter. - handed a power from on high that could easily make him nigh-arbitrary amounts of money honestly he continues a career as a not very skilled bankrobber until he ends up dead, If this is going to be a general theme, - Crazy coming with the powers, it raises uncomfortable questions about why the flash isn't crazy too.

 

It would be quite interesting if a bunch of the powered people in star city put their new skills to entirely civilian uses- but I don't hold out much hope that the world building is that solid. 

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I don't know where anyone is seeing chemistry between Barry and Caitlin. There was nothing there.

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One thing that has really bugged me about the pilot -- and that is the Deus Ex Poop outside the bank, that ultimately led Detective West to the barn that had the car that belonged to the bank robber who evaded capture in a plane (WTF ?) that was hit by special lightning from the particle accelerator explosion that created J. Walter Weatherman (thanks to Arrested Development for that).  If Barrie is supposed to be this wunderkind CSI, his conclusion about the getaway car being a fancy mustang that would be found on a cattle ranch -- is utter bullshit.

 

The way that bank robber drove that car (super high speeds), any poop it ran over with the tires on the farm would only be found in the treads of said tires, but the scene outside the bank made it look the car had driven over the poop that was already on the ground outside the bank (it was a small pile of cow poop).  And then using some computer-fu to determine that only 4 farms used the antibiotics found in the cow poop -- was also bullshit.  Who writes this stuff ?   Even Gil Grissom on CSI would have seen the manufactured nature/plot contrivance of that scene.

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Welp I thought the pilot was pretty okay. I'm getting used to the idea that these shows cater to a different demographic first and foremost before they bother to intrigue the comic book crowd. The drama and pretty young actors take center stage and the action and adherence to the comic books is absolutely second. Not that I'm complaining or anything. Hell, I'm happy to be alive during a time when comic books are so popular as to merit several primetime tv shows and a multibillion dollar movie industry!

 

My only real complaint is that some of the special effects were really lame--especially most of the shots of Barry running around at super speed. The shot of him running around the tornado was pretty much the only one that rocked. Weather Wizards tornado effect was also way lame--It's supposed to be a Category 5 Tornado but it doesn't seem to cause much beyond a gentle breeze outside of breaking through a barn roof.

 

Most of this I'm positive is just a result of this being a pilot so budget was a major concern. I don't doubt the vision of the people behind it and I'm a huge fan of Arrow, so I know this is in good hands. I'm way psyched about this pilot and I'm so glad it got picked up for a season. Here's hoping this goes on for years and inspires more and more comicbook based tv.

 

The yellowish thing that attacked and killed Barrie's mom (or did he ?) was stupid -- why would whatever it was attack his mom like that ?  Unless it's a time traveler from the future -- maybe Barrie killed his own mom in some sort of incarnation as the 'evil Flash' (all dressed in yellow in Barri'ss flashbacks).  Or maybe the Flash came back from the Future, and ran around her to create a vortex and took her back to the Future with him.

 

I can't recommend the animated movie Flashpoint Paradox enough--to you and to anyone in this forum with an interest in this show. It goes a great distance to educate anyone who watches it about the Flash and his villains, especially the yellow Flash you see in this pilot killing his mom. Okay so maybe it only touches on his villians and then it focuses a bit more on the DC Universe as a whole--especially Batman. But it's a great movie, easily one of my favorite. Seriously, check out Flashpoint Paradox.

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My only real complaint is that some of the special effects were really lame--especially most of the shots of Barry running around at super speed. The shot of him running around the tornado was pretty much the only one that rocked. Weather Wizards tornado effect was also way lame--It's supposed to be a Category 5 Tornado but it doesn't seem to cause much beyond a gentle breeze outside of breaking through a barn roof.

 

Most of this I'm positive is just a result of this being a pilot so budget was a major concern. 

 

Actually for action shows the pilot is usually the most expensive episode where they have the most budget.And then budget is a major concern after that.So this is probably as good as the special effects will get.

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Actually for action shows the pilot is usually the most expensive episode where they have the most budget.And then budget is a major concern after that.So this is probably as good as the special effects will get.

 

Well...Shit.

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I enjoyed the pilot for the most part. I found Gustin to be likable in the role, and the cast all played well off each other. The story was okay as origin stories go, but I really don't want this to be a meta human of the week show like Smallville was. Right now I'd say the Arrow pilot was better, but the characters are lighter and more charming, and the cast seem to have better chemistry. I nearly quit Arrow 2 or 3 times in the first season because I wasn't crazy about the main characters and the lack of chemistry was just uncomfortable at times.

My favorite part was probably when the crazy weather guy was talking about himself as God and Det. West was like "Shut the hell up!" Lol. I think I'm really going to like Jesse L. Martin in this role. I really like the actress playing Iris, but the writing was super bad for her character. We didn't learn anything about her really - she works at a cafe, she's working on her dissertation (don't know for what), she stress eats, she apparently knows nothing about science and has no interest in the topic (I'm extrapolating here from her scene in Barry's lab), and she's dating Det. Thawne. Keeping her in the dark re: Barry seemed contrived, but I'm not a fan of the Lois Lane trope in which the love interest is blind to the hero, and I'm afraid this will end up making Iris the DiD as a way to involve her. I hated this in Lana and Lois in Smallville, and it was even worse on Arrow with Laurel. I also think brother-zoning him was going a bit far, and that they grew up in the same house is a bit off putting since I have a stepbrother. I did like their friendship and the scenes they had together. The only thing I'm going to say is that besides the fact that I don't like the idea of Barry pining over someone who clearly doesn't feel the same way, they need to be careful giving Iris too many 'I know you so well' lines. Because if she's kept out of the superhero loop and she's not even aware he has a crush on her, lines like that will start to make her look foolish. Better to read her in early IMO and let their friendship grow/evolve naturally instead of too much pushing based on unknown backstory. It's always better to show the audience the story instead of telling them something and hoping they buy it.

I liked Team Flash. Caitlin was a bit wooden, but a friend of mine and I agree she was playing it a bit like Dr. Brennan from Bones. No-nonsense scientist is fine, but going too far would be a mistake because that sort of thing works best on character driven shows that take the time to explore it. I thought she and Barry had good chemistry in the scene where she dropped some of her backstory. But then again, I also know they wanted me to feel that way because the music changed there. Oh, tricky CW shows lol. I think Caitlin intrigues me the most, but that's because of the comic history of the character and me wondering if she'll evolve in that direction.

The Grodd Easter egg made me giggle, especially since Wells was in a wheelchair when they passed the sign on the bent up cage. But Dr. Wells is a tricky one as well. Obviously he has a connection to the future - good guy or bad guy? Is he there to help Barry become a hero or hurt him? Or maybe he's a Malcolm Merlyn type who thinks he's ultimately helping humanity with his actions when he's really the villain. Cavanaugh was good in this role.

The Arrow cameo felt ALL wrong. Since when is Oliver up to giving pep talks about being a hero? I know that there will likely be some crossovers if The Flash does well, but they need to keep the characters consistent from one show to the other. Barry fit with what we saw on Arrow, but the reverse was not true here. Also, the world building they've done for Arrow and Flash are completely different, and I don't want one bleeding over too much to the other. So basically what I'm saying is if they go the meta human and time travel/alternate universe route on Flash, it needs to stay on Flash. They've spent two seasons grounding Arrow in a darker and more realistic world, and I don't want them changing it now based on what's happening on another show.

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Curiosity underwhelmed the cat.

 

To be fair, I don't read comics and I think that I don't like superpowers (didn't like/watch Smallville, Heroes or No Ordinary Family either).  I think that's a big part of my passing on this show. I was partly out of it, I believe, from the first second, with Barry running. I didn't watch the trailer, so I still thought they'd find a way to adapt Barry's powers somehow.

 

Unlike the Arrow pilot that grabbed me, everything here fell flat to me, including the last twist.

 

The characters, first. I was surprised to find Barry so likeable on Arrow, here imo he lost that freshness and bubbliness (even before the coma, and actually I saw no remarkable difference before/after, unlike Oliver pre/post island) to become Brooding Pining guy. Iris has a warmth/niceness that Laurel never had, and I thought I'd like her at first, but her cluelessness started to annoy me by the end and not telling Barry about her boyfriend screamed coyness to me, which I didn't like. Caitlin and Cisco were too stereotypical, I wasn't sure I followed Det.West's attitude (and yet I love me some Jesse L.Martin). And for me, the cast of the Flash lacks the immediate chemistry I saw for example between S.Amell and D.Ramsey, W.Holland, S.Thompson and C.Salmon.

 

I had a problem with the structure of the pilot, too. I think the show should have started with Barry waking up. That's where I had left him. As it was, I was tapping my fingers until the story picked up there and was already bored when the "action" really kicked in, after the very long flashback-but-not-really-one. I understand why they wanted to avoid the same structure as Arrow, but they did a "real" flashback anyway; and maybe then I wouldn't have felt that I watched a huge info dump with every character behaving like an exposition fairy. Barry and his backstory were introduced on Arrow, the Caitlin/Cisco appearance made it clear enough imo re:Barry/Iris; as for his position in the police forces and his relationship with Det.West they could have been explained -or better, showed- otherwise. "We are like brother and sister"? Honestly, the only less subtle way to expose the situation would have been for the characters to wear T-shirts indicating their respective role/relationship to Barry.

The only moments I really liked were Oliver's appearance, if only because I wish he had already reached that level of acceptance and wisdom on Arrow and J.W.Shipp's as Barry's dad.

 

Don't get me wrong, nothing was terrible. I just didn't like it; but I wish for those who loved it that I'll be in the minority. I hope for them (and the cast/crew) that it works and gets good ratings.

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Ausiello loved it :

 

(Flash) lived up to the hype. Amazing visuals & stunt work, and a star-making turn from Grant Gustin. Count me in. #pilotwatch

 

Yeah. He must have seen a different pilot than the one I've watched, I guess.

Edited by Kaoteek

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I don't mind Iris not being in the know. Not everyone needs to know so quickly. Barry's team knew by circumstance as did Detective West.

I suspect it'll change by s1. 

For the pilot itself..I enjoyed it. I'm in.

 

Though I don't get the purpose of the twist..why show that particular date for the paper? Sure, it's to show Wells' time travel/possible murder of Barry's mom..but that date? Unless the show plans on lasting 10 years.

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The response across the internet has been overwhelmingly positive.  

 

Oh, but that, I can get : it's not an awful pilot, Arrow is a popular show amongst comic book fans, expectations are (somehow) lower for CW shows & comic book shows, and even Smallville was considered a very successful show back then.

 

Where I struggle is with Ausiello speaking of the visuals & stunt work as something amazing, despite those being exactly along the lines of SV & most CW tv shows. (also, I'm kind of puzzled by Gustin's supposed "star-making turn", since most reactions to the guy range from bland to, at best, likeable... we're far from anything star-making, imo)

Edited by Kaoteek
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Overall I liked it okay, a little cheesy but I could handle that.

 

I'm really, really glad that the female playing Iris was NO Katie Cassidy.  She was quite charming and her and Grant Gustin had good chemistry.  A million times yes that the crafting of that character is terrible however.  She has no ties to the main plot and solely exists to be a love interest.  That is not a good way to write a character and they are doing a disservice to the actress.

 

Glad the early reveal that something is sinister with his scientist mentor and the early reveal of Detective Iris being in the know.

 

The main thing I am iffy about is the scientist twosome at Star Labs.  I found the male not nearly as amusing or charming as the character was clearly meant to be and I found the actress playing the other one to be fairly flat and not that engaging.  I really hope those two can step it up as the show goes on.

 

Honestly I think Grant Gustin is doing a better job than Stephen Amell was doing early on, people forget how wooden he was at first before he settled into the character.  I found him a likeable and compelling lead who pulled off the emotions required well.

 

Not blown away, but it was a fun and compelling enough episode that makes me want to tune in.  Also curious to see how the episodes will look moving forward.  As someone else mention pilots have a larger budget, how will they handle the superspeed and metahuman villians on a normal budget?

Edited by Atony
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Well, I liked it well enough. I won't say 'loved' because there are enough niggles that worry me for the future - or rather two. One, although Iris is warm and likeable (unlike Laurel on Arrow) and the actress portraying her can actually act (again, unlike Laurel on Arrow), they need to bring her into the plot, and give her a story of her own other than "Dating her Dad's partner and friendzoning Barry". I'm willing to give them a couple more episodes to do this since it was only the pilot, but given that they already gave the other potential Barry L.I. Caitlin actual motivation (resentment over her fiance getting killed which could easily spill over into conflicts within the team) I'm hoping that they 'fix' Iris ASAP and don't leave her to become a more likeable and better acted Laurel 2.0.

The other niggle was Cisco. No, he wasn't funny, he was just annoying. To be honest they could get rid of him and bring Iris onto the team in some way, and the show would be a lot tighter. Mileage may obviously vary - I know a lot of people found Andrew on Buffy to be hilarious and I could not stand him.

 

Didn't have any strong feelings for Ed either way but I liked his surprise at the end.

The scenes with Amell were bloody awkward, and the dialogue was horrible. I just could not envisage Oliver saying "Cool" like that, it was cringeworthy. If they are going to have crossovers with Arrow, the Arrow characters actually need to resemble themselves - this Oliver was a stranger.

Loved Det. West and "Shut the hell up!" - that got the only laugh out of me although I did like other lighthearted moments like Barry's "oops" look when the other Detective told him that the pen he'd just used to scoop up poop was a gift from his dead father.

Eh yeah, the SFX was ropy but no worse than Smallville and I coped with it there.  I actually liked the lightning effects when Barry ran.

 

As for Gustin, I think he can grow into the role - I thought Amell was terrible for the first couple of episodes of Arrow but now I think he's a fantastic actor.

 

Overall, I liked it enough to give it a few more episodes at least.

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I seem to be in the minority, because I loved it. That's not to say it didn't have any problems, but the core players, Grant Gustin, Candace Patton, and Jesse L Martin are wonderful. GG's Barry is sweet, smart, and good-hearted. Unlike Oliver Queen, Barry doesn't begin his journey looking for vengence; justice yes, but he's not going to be leaving behind a trail of bodies. This allows the show to have a lighter tone, and more overt humor. The dramatic parts are just as effective. The scene when Barry visits his father in prison brought a tear to my eye, and when the Flash had his final confrontation with the villian, it gave me all kinds of DC feels.  Grant Gustin does, IMHO, have the charisma, and the talent, to lead a series. The CW, which sometimes casts pretty blocks of wood in their lead roles, is lucky to have him.

 

The only real stumbling is Iris; not the character or the actress; Candace Patton is really good here, and she has great chemistry with GG, but the decision to keep her out of the loop in regards to Barry's powers, looks like a trainwreck waiting to happen. Not knowing keeps her out of the main story, and leaves her on the sidelines as someone Barry pines over and rescues from the metahuman freaks of the week. That's Lana Lang territory, and nobody wants that. Iris shouldn't be an object for Barry to win, who's thoughts and actions' only value is whether they move her closer or farther away from his arms. She should be a fully realized character, with a journey of her own, and their eventual love story should be about two people who see each other as they really are, and recognize they make each other happy. That's going to be difficult to do with Iris  wandering around oblivious, while occasionally being kidnapped and dating bad guys. Also, there's the "Felicity Syndrome": Iris is off on the side, doing her own thing, while another woman is on Team Flash, working closely with Barry. What could go wrong? I don't think DP has more chemistry with Grant then CP, but it's early days yet. I don't think it's a good idea to tempt fate.

 

Finally, the metahuman freak of the week premise could go either way. If every week some crazy shows up with powers and falls in love with/kidnaps Iris, that would be bad. However, if it's used to world build, introducing DC characters as allies and enemies, it could be wonderful. Who knows who we could get out of it?  When I saw that empty cage marked "Grodd", I very nearly screamed. There's so much potential here, they just need to handle it riight

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Overall I liked it. Was it predicable and cliche? Yes. But it was also a lot more fun than Arrow.

 

The EP's have said they don't like the secret identity part. on Arrow. But then they went ahead and did the same thing on this show. I was kind of hoping that everyone would know about Barry in this episode, just so they could be different and less predicable. So I do have a feeling that Flash is going to be really comic book predicable. I will give it a couple more episodes before I form a real opinion.

 

Out of the two girls, I'm a lot more interested in Caitlin than Iris. The actress did okay with the material she was given which wasn't much. Again, not knowing the secret could hurt her since it appears that with Caitlin being on Team Flash that Barry will be spending more time with them doing the actual crime fighting. So that could come with the same problems that is on Arrow. 

Edited by Sakura12
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I enjoyed it. It reminded me of Smallville S1 which isn't a bad thing for me.

 

I do think it's a mistake to leave out Iris. Everyone, including her father, knows. Trying to keep someone safe by not letting them in on an important secret never works. The character in the dark never stays safe, and it only leads to annoying misunderstandings.

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Iris is studying criminal psychology so I don't think she'll be left totally out of the loop.

 

I don't like this Team Flash thing period though. It works on Arrow where the team offsets the hero's weak points but they need not copy it for every one of their shows.

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I don't mind the team aspect, I think Barry needs other people he can't do it on his own. He needs a homebase type of thing.

 

They are different than Team Arrow already since they formed the hero team together in the first episode and since none of them work for Barry, they are all on equal footing. There is also the fact that he doesn't know them and doesn't know how trustworthy they are, so that adds some suspense within the team dynamics. Plus they are all super smart which could also add some conflict on which way is the better way. I am looking forward to seeing this team in action. 

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I don't mind the team aspect, I think Barry needs other people he can't do it on his own. He needs a homebase type of thing.

 

He's been doing it on his own for years in the comics. 

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This isn't the comics. Reading a comic takes about a minute or so. On a television show we're going to be spending a lot more time with him and would want him to interact with more people that he can talk to and share his day with. They are making it keep it from his best friend, so he needs other friends. 

 

It makes more sense to have other people helping him, so he could still do his day job and keep up with the thousands of criminals that will no doubt show up. It's not that he can't do everything by himself, he shouldn't have too. 

Edited by Sakura12
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I'm not saying he shouldn't have someone he can share his secret with but he's capable of handling himself and doesnt need to be a carbon copy of Arrow right down the team.

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This Flash, though, just got his powers and abilities. I think it would be very difficult to figure out how to control them without someone or people to bounce ideas off of. When I read The Flash, it was Wally West, and he'd been a hero for years. This is basically an origin story. 

 

For me, I find it very boring when the hero works alone. Arrow lost me until Diggle and Felicity joined on with Oliver. Buffy had her Scooby gang. Clark had Pete, Lex, and Chloe though none knew of his powers for a few seasons. Even Batman has a group he trusts with his secrets.

 

I do agree that copying the Arrow formula to a T will not work, and I hope The Flash can find its own identity. However, I do know with TV it's often easier to go with what they know works often to the detriment of a show or concept.

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I'm not sure that having a base team was groundbreaking to Arrow.  A team working with the superhero is about as expected in a superhero film/show as it is for the superhero to be heroic.  

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I'm not sure that having a base team was groundbreaking to Arrow.  A team working with the superhero is about as expected in a superhero film/show as it is for the superhero to be heroic.  

 

Exactly, but the team dynamic has to work for the show in order for that to happen.

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I'm almost sorry I read this thread because it's putting me off of watching The Flash when it premieres.  It sounds like the only thing original about it is the character of Barry Allen/Flash himself.  You got the young genius scientists who look like they should be in college or high school (check), the cop father with a beautiful daughter who's loved by the hero (check), the geeky female friend (check), the potential love triangle (check), and the supernaturally-powered people (check).  

 

I can understand why they would copy elements from Arrow and Smallville, though.  Despite those shows' flaws, Smallville did last 10 years (I believe) and Arrow has been successful enough to be renewed for a third season.

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You got the young genius scientists who look like they should be in college or high school

 

That's a CW thing. Can't blame them for something every single show on that network does. Along with the love triangles. Although it does help on this show that they are not related.

 

The potential love triangle (check), and the supernaturally-powered people (check).  

Since it's a comic book show based on a hero with super powers, supernaturally-powered people is kind of given. So I'll give them a leeway on that, Smallville didn't invent that. 

 

the geeky female friend (check)

 

That might not turn out the way you'd think if they go by the comics. That's why I'm interested in her character. The geeky friend in this case is male but then again the hero is also geeky so that is different than Arrow. Caitlin Snow while a scientist is not what I'd consider geeky. She'd be a bastard from the North if she was on Game of Thrones though. lol.

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I'm almost sorry I read this thread because it's putting me off of watching The Flash when it premieres.  It sounds like the only thing original about it is the character of Barry Allen/Flash himself.  You got the young genius scientists who look like they should be in college or high school (check), the cop father with a beautiful daughter who's loved by the hero (check), the geeky female friend (check), the potential love triangle (check), and the supernaturally-powered people (check).  

 

I can understand why they would copy elements from Arrow and Smallville, though.  Despite those shows' flaws, Smallville did last 10 years (I believe) and Arrow has been successful enough to be renewed for a third season.

in all honesty, when you look at comic books: it's all the same basic formula (for the most part). so it's only a given that when you have multiply shows each based on the comics, they're all bound to be similar in some ways.

i'm still looking forward to it. the good (and bad) part is that it's on the CW, so chances of it being canceled (unless it'll have a 0.5 rating) are slim. however with Constantine and Gotham premiering too, Flash is going to have to be really good (and i mean arrow-when-its-fantastic-good) to maintain my attention.

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It was ok, kinda formulaic but as others have said up thread that's to be expected from most CW shows and most comic books. Most of the cast were fine, though I didn't think anyone including Barry was particularly outstanding yet but it's early days. I agree that with the large amount of comic book and genre shows coming out the writing is going to have to step it up a notch. 

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You got the young genius scientists who look like they should be in college or high school (check),

 

I think Carlos Valdes is slightly older, but Danielle Panabaker is 26, which about right for someone to have finished college and be working in an entry-level position at a company like STAR Labs. It's not like they're pretending they're teenagers.

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Harrison Wells is faking his disability -- and his superpower after the accident is that he can see the future (the headline from 2024 at the end, about the Flash missing) or is that some sort of special machine he built.  But apparently the Flash will be doing good for at least another 10 years.  Was Wellington implying that there may be hundreds of possibly thousands of supes in Central city after the accident ?

 

The yellowish thing that attacked and killed Barrie's mom (or did he ?) was stupid -- why would whatever it was attack his mom like that ?  Unless it's a time traveler from the future -- maybe Barrie killed his own mom in some sort of incarnation as the 'evil Flash' (all dressed in yellow in Barri'ss flashbacks).  Or maybe the Flash came back from the Future, and ran around her to create a vortex and took her back to the Future with him.

 

And what's with fluids going all anti-gravity whenever the funkiness that gives superspeed power to anyone is in play ?

 

I thought this was an episode of Law and Order when Jesse L. Martin showed up as Det. West -- his character is nearly identical to Det. Lance on 'Arrow', complete with a child who is personally close to the primary super-individual of the show.  Plus, having Det. West's daughter working at a diner is also oddly similar to Diggle's almost sister-in-law on Arrow.  Heck, Barrie Allen even has his own version of super-techno geekgirl Felicity Smoak in Caitlin Snow.  They really didn't stray far from the 'Arrow' formula.

 

They've established that Central City is about 600 miles from Starling City, probably still on the West Coast (as it looks like Flash is also filmed in Vancouver).

 

I also wish they would piss off with the "I am <insert character's name>" nonsense at the start of the episode (or in this case, the end of the episode) -- it sucks on 'Arrow', and it really sucked on 'The Tomorrow People'.

 

Interesting thing -- on TVrage.com, several characters are listed with nicknames that may be based on superpowers they acquire.  Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost, Cisco Ramon/Vibe and Detective Eddie Thawne/Professor Zoom (Thawne is the guy that Iris is currently making googly eyes with Iris West).

 

To address some of your questions:

 

Yes, we are being told there may be an unknown number of "metahumans" created out of the same accident that gave Barry abs (and superspeed). Thousands is probably too high.

 

Assuming the show follows the general outline of the comics, the yellowish blur was Professor Zoom/Reverse-Flash, who has time-travelled from the future. It's been established, I believe, in the current line of comics that Professor Zoom/Reverse-Flash travelled back in time to kill Barry's mom in an attempt to shape Barry to shape Reverse-Flash.

 

My pet theory is that Detective Eddie Thawne is not the Reverse-Flash himself, but an ancestor of him. Harrison Wells (whose middle initial is probably G) may be the actual Reverse-Flash.

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Assuming the show follows the general outline of the comics, the yellowish blur was Professor Zoom/Reverse-Flash, who has time-travelled from the future. It's been established, I believe, in the current line of comics that Professor Zoom/Reverse-Flash travelled back in time to kill Barry's mom in an attempt to shape Barry to shape Reverse-Flash.

 

 

Holy paradox !!  Thanks for the background info Chicago Redshirt, that explains quite a lot actually.

 

 

My pet theory is that Detective Eddie Thawne is not the Reverse-Flash himself, but an ancestor of him. Harrison Wells (whose middle initial is probably G) may be the actual Reverse-Flash.

 

 

Interesting as TVrage.com has Rick Cosnett listed as Detective Thawne/Professor Zoom -- so Detective Thawne may indeed be the Reverse Flash.   Hmmmmm.

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Watched it. Definitely rushed, as if some producer was making "wrap it up" hand motions every time the show tried to stray into character development or world building territory. And while I can believe that it takes place in the same universe as Arrow, I wish that it had more of a distinct stylistic approach. I don't want to tune in and feel like it's the fast food version of Arrow.

 

Gustin is hit-and-miss as a lead. Barring the scene in the prison at the end, he turned to cardboard when the script called for strong emotions. There's also a few things about Barry that rubbed me the wrong way, such as getting pissy and upset every time Iris showed interest in somebody else, and basically giving Caitlin the "you should smile more" line. The affable Nice Guy thing is a trope that always makes me leery. I am not looking forward to watching Barry endlessly pine over Iris. She doesn't want your d, Barry. Go out and meet some girls who aren't your quasi-sister.

 

Speaking of, I actually really like Iris. I was hoping that I would, but she turned out to be funnier and more charming than I expected. Thank god. I also enjoyed her relationship with Barry when the camera wasn't focused on his secret, sometimes bitchy reactions to half the things she said. They have a cute dynamic, and I'm not used to the female lead being the lighthearted one in shows like this. But I've gotta say, I'd probably be all for the two of them ending up together someday if they'd built up the romantic angle to their relationship through time. IMO watching two best friends who gradually fall in love is infinitely more tolerable than one best friend living it up and the other sulking around about it. Friends are happy for each other. Be a friend, Barry.

 

I didn't get much of a feel for Team Flash (Lightning Bunch? Lab Partners? Science-Kicks?) yet. Caitlin was admittedly kind of blank but she has potential to grow the show up later on since she's already a bit dark. Cisco (I want one Thong Song reference this season, just one) didn't leave much of an impression. A little whimsical and immature, maybe. Wells' mysterious smiles and his all black wardrobe were kinda anvilly. I like the actor though, who is very charismatic, so I hope that the material gives as good as it gets. Sucks that we didn't get to see Barry tell them he had super speed powers. Their initial reactions could have told us a lot about them.

 

Unfortunately, so far the team seems inorganically constructed to me. Another symptom of the rushed writing: Instant team! Just add water! But I like the idea of Star Labs and its employees being pariahs in the media and in the minds and hearts of the people of Central City. If they use flashbacks a lot, I hope that the bulk of them are of the other characters during those nine months that Barry was in a coma. Just because I'd rather learn more about the secondary characters than Barry right now.

 

Det. West might end up being my favorite if he keeps getting incredulous lines like "Why the hell would God need to rob banks?!" I'm glad he's in on the secret. I wonder if he knows that Barry's in love with his daughter. I hope not, or else I'd be grossed out that he apparently discourages Iris from dating outside of the household. Oops. Sorry, that's going to be a sticking point for me.

 

Overall, it was about as quality as I expected, and I wasn't expecting anything amazing. I'll probably give it a few episodes this fall and decide if it's worth a go from there.

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I think Carlos Valdes is slightly older, but Danielle Panabaker is 26, which about right for someone to have finished college and be working in an entry-level position at a company like STAR Labs. It's not like they're pretending they're teenagers.

Indeed.

I think CW shows twisted our vision of what teenagers are suppose to look like. In TV show, they usually look like the ones in The Flash but the actors are playing 16something. Here, they play their age and we find them too young for the part ! 24-26 is indeed appropriate for what they are aiming for. For once.

 

As far as the show goes, I'm in. CW does fan service very well usually and it was awesome to see old Bary Allen included in the show. Seriously, sounds ridiculous but I cheered when I saw him (I was unspoiled). My only fear is the Smallville effect : too many boring love stories (no offense for those who have interest in them). I want frakkin' heroism, mega bad villains, a solid meta-arc and awesome special effects and if we can be spared joke about fast sex, I will be satisfied. Not shooting for the moon here.

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I am familiar with certain stories and characters in the comic books. I am generally speaking unfamiliar with CW shows other than The Arrow.

 

And since Satisfaction = Experience/Expectations, I was fortunate that my only expectation was that this would be a good pilot and not how it would measure up against Flash stories or whether or not is just like Smallville or not enough like Smallville.

 

And I thought it was a good pilot. I was engaged. I liked the actor playing the main character. I think there were moments of good chemistry between the characters, which is really all I can hope to see from a pilot. (If the chemistry never develops once the show hits its stride, I'm out, but it is WAY too early to expect great chemistry yet.)  And I liked the comic book stuff, both in general and in the few things I recognized. For example, I saw that cage with the Grodd sign on it, and had the same "Cool!" reaction that Oliver and Barry had to each other.

 

So in other words, I agree with the critics. It was a really good pilot episode, strictly as a TV show not measured up against any expectations of what a Flash TV show should be.

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I really liked it.  I'm surprised that people are so underwhelmed but mmv I guess.  I'm not super familiar with the comic but wikipedia took care of that.  It's the CW so I'm not expecting movie level graphics or storytelling for that matter.  At least it kept my attention better than the much overhyped Shield.

 

I think what I like most is Barry.  I find him to be so relatable and endearing as a character that I am willing to go along for the ride.  I also thought his cameo on Green Arrow was great and I liked that he was open to something with Felicity even though he "loves" Iris.  The male unrequited love for the girl bff is overdone in comics I think and it definitely falters here.  Iris seems nice enough but it's going to be hard for me to root for him to be with someone who clearly doesn't want to be with him in that way.  If Barry dying and/or being in a coma is not enough for her to realize her true feelings I feel like they are simply not there.

 

It feels cheap that she has to realize it while she is with someone else.  And that was way too telegraphed for her to be with Det. Thawne when Barry woke up from his coma. 

 

I do feel some chemistry between Barry and Caitlin simply because he noticed that she is not the happiest person and he was able to make her smile again in the end.  I think considering the fact that she now has no career and lost her fiance during the accident that she's not going to the most chipper person. She also seems to be the Scully of the group which works fine imo.

 

I'm excited to see where it goes, it seems like it has potential.

Edited by blugirlami21
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I don't know where anyone is seeing chemistry between Barry and Caitlin. There was nothing there.

I didn't see any chemistry either. I don't get all the fuss about them.

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Speculation based on recent casting:

 

Given that Robbie Amell has been announced as playing Caitlin's (former?) fiancé, I'm guessing he's not really dead. Maybe he'll first show up in flashbacks, but I doubt that'll be all we see of him.

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