Theatre Talk: In Our Own Little Corner

[Rinaldo]

I bought the LP [of Camelot] years ago at a garage sale and eagerly brought it home to give it a listen. ... But after seeing the movie version, I'm deeply annoyed by "If I ever I would leave you..." and the title song and well...all of them. How could this version of such exciting lore be so utterly boring? I get that it's a throwback to the JFK era and that's part of the appeal, but....boy this take on Merlin/Arthur and Co. almost cuts off circulation to my head. Numbing and not fun.

I do think you need to hear the OCR; the movie trashes the material in a number of ways. (And though its history is now connected with JFK in people's minds, its creation actually precedes his election.)

 

Anyway, I have a complicated relationship with Camelot. As I was starting to get interested in musicals (7th grade or thereabouts), this was the first show I followed from pre-Broadway publicity (Time magazine had a huge preview article about L&L), troubled tryouts, Broadway opening, critical reception, and cast recording. I got the recording immediately (the original issue is one of the more lavish packages put on sale in that era), and immediately loved it. I still love it, I would put Camelot among my five favorite musicals of all time. But...

 

You're not wrong. Lovely as the score is, it never engages with the heart of the story. The narrative has two main themes: the idea of Might put to work for Right (the institution of the Round Table, and ultimately its collapse), and the agonizing triangle between Arthur, Guenevere, and Lancelot where each loves both of the others and yet they hurt each other terribly. And none of the songs deal with either of those themes! (Until the very end, where "I Loved You Once in Silence" does convey some tragic regret, "Guenevere" simply narrates the culmination of the story, and the final reprise of "Camelot" does what it needs to, with that "don't let it be forgot...") All of the gorgeous songs land somewhere just off the point: the meet-cute of the opening scene (delightful, and not part of the Arthurian saga, but irrelevant in the end), the irrelevant slow songs about woman-handling and before-gazing and never-leaving, the irrelevant fast songs about lusty May and whatnot... again, I love them, but they could go into almost any story, they don't deal with the guts of the matter. A lot of the in-between music creates the right atmosphere (the wonderful little March, the heraldic fanfares, lots of wonderful processional and ceremonial music that has never been recorded), but it's not enough without the right main items. So yeah. It's probably obvious that I've been thinking about this for a long time, which I have because I'm really torn. I love it, but it was written wrong.

[Charlie Baker]

Audra MacDonald will be doing Lady Day in London--a prior committment--which accounts for her leave from Shuffle Along. HBO will show the video of Lady Day in March.

 

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/audra-mcdonald-to-make-west-end-debut/?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur

[DisneyBoy]

I do think you need to hear the OCR; the movie trashes the material in a number of ways. (And though its history is now connected with JFK in people's minds, its creation actually precedes his election.)

Anyway, I have a complicated relationship with Camelot. As I was starting to get interested in musicals (7th grade or thereabouts), this was the first show I followed from pre-Broadway publicity (Time magazine had a huge preview article about L&L), troubled tryouts, Broadway opening, critical reception, and cast recording. I got the recording immediately (the original issue is one of the more lavish packages put on sale in that era), and immediately loved it. I still love it, I would put Camelot among my five favorite musicals of all time. But...

You're not wrong. Lovely as the score is, it never engages with the heart of the story. The narrative has two main themes: the idea of Might put to work for Right (the institution of the Round Table, and ultimately its collapse), and the agonizing triangle between Arthur, Guenevere, and Lancelot where each loves both of the others and yet they hurt each other terribly. And none of the songs deal with either of those themes! (Until the very end, where "I Loved You Once in Silence" does convey some tragic regret, "Guenevere" simply narrates the culmination of the story, and the final reprise of "Camelot" does what it needs to, with that "don't let it be forgot...") All of the gorgeous songs land somewhere just off the point: the meet-cute of the opening scene (delightful, and not part of the Arthurian saga, but irrelevant in the end), the irrelevant slow songs about woman-handling and before-gazing and never-leaving, the irrelevant fast songs about lusty May and whatnot... again, I love them, but they could go into almost any story, they don't deal with the guts of the matter. A lot of the in-between music creates the right atmosphere (the wonderful little March, the heraldic fanfares, lots of wonderful processional and ceremonial music that has never been recorded), but it's not enough without the right main items. So yeah. It's probably obvious that I've been thinking about this for a long time, which I have because I'm really torn. I love it, but it was written wrong.

THANK you *deep sigh* I can't believe how completely uninvolved with its own story the musical is. It's actually the kind of musical I would never show or invite friends to actually see because it just prattles on and on about romanticism in a really pointless way. They would glare and vow never to endure a musical again. Heck, the movie, in spite of the sets and costumes, had the same effect on me. No wonder it reportedly "killed" movie musicals in Hollywood for a while.

And to be clear, I like romanticism just fine, thank you very much, but don't try to tell the exciting story of King Freaking Arthur with ditties about, as you brilliantly put it, "before-gazing" and "never-leaving". I think my favorite part of the movie version was the very last scene, where you can see Gwen is utterly *crushed* by what she's done and crying big heavy tears underneath her hood of shame, and Lancie isn't so thrilled with himself either...and the love montage between Lancie and Gwen at the top of the second act, where they just...well...do it over and over and over, LOL. In the lakes! In his room! In the field! Awww. Cute stuff. And the actors fell in love and married in real life too! No surprise there.

Mordred is pretty much forgettable from what I remember of the movie. I see this musical and appreciate the Sam Neil/Miranda Richardson NBC "Merlin" all the more. What a spectacular movie/mini-series that was...

I would give the OBC a listen.

Okay, okay...I will! I'll just try to ignore the memories of the movie, which felt almost like a bad SNL parody of Broadway love songs. And what was with casting an actor CLEARLY IN HIS 40s! to try and play the "young" Arthur. Really now? I'm not ageist...but those close-ups did him NO favours.

So Aradia...have you watched Emma in Cabaret yet?

Edited January 15, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[Rinaldo]

and the love montage between Lancie and Gwen at the top of the second act, where they just...well...do it over and over and over, LOL. In the lakes! In his room! In the field! Awww. Cute stuff. And the actors fell in love and married in real life too! No surprise there.

Two side points as we trail off. One, that doing-it montage that you refer to? It's not in the stage version, at least the original Broadway text (maybe some revivals have changed it, I don't know). Not because cinematic montages can't be done onstage, but because they never actually do it! When Lance comes to her bedchamber and gets caught by Mordred et al? it's the first time he's ever been there, and they had just agreed he should go away quick.

It's easy to laugh at that choice (and my junior-high classmates and I sure did, at the time), but looking back I can sympathize with the producers discovering that preview audiences, just impatient with a lot of it, were downright hostile to the notion of Our Sweet Julie Andrews being an adulteress. You have to pick your battles, and they gave in on that one. (For the movie, we were well into the 60s and we had a different actress.) Still, it kills the story.

Second, Vanessa and Franco did fall in love and had a son, but they didn't marry till 2006, after decades with others. Which doesn't really change your point at all, but it's kind of interesting that after choosing to be unconventional, they reunited later in life. Rachel Kempson, Lady Redgrave, wrote in her memoirs of traveling to Hollywood to see her daughter film Camelot (she herself clearly was already a fan of the show). According to her, she saw Franco Nero stride on in costume and immediately thought, "Oh dear, I think Vanessa's going to fall in love with him."

[DisneyBoy]

Ha! Mama's always know, don't they?

I'm not even familiar enough with the movie or show to understand what you mean by Mordred catching Lance in Gwen's room...sorry 'bout that. Here you are trying to make a point and I can't even follow. Unless you just meant that Gwen didn't get nasty in the show, which I did somehow know.

Do you ever wonder how you know so much about Broadway stuff? It amazes me what stays registered in my mind and what doesn't...

Anyway, I get that crowds were too uptight to want to be confronted with the reality of adultery, but come on now...Julie would have sold the emotions of the moment very well. I can imagine it playing out like the scene in Sound of Music where the Baroness makes it clear Maria's caught her boss' eye. Shame, looking away, maybe even smoothing her dress or holding her mouth...she would have made it work. Lord knows people were cheating on each other even when this show first hit the stage.

Never knew they didn't marry until years later though...interesting.

Oh wait - maybe I learned all this from bonus features on the DVD? Did the DVD have bonus features? Ahhh forget it! I can't remember nuthin'.

Tried to watch The AutoBiography of Samantha Brown last night and I wanted to rip my own head off and use it as a basketball. I really, really can't stand stories about kids in High School anymore and especially "Rory Gilmore" kids who star in the story being told and are all like "So my life's all normal see! My parents love me too much, and I'm Valedictorian and have perfect grades and abstain from sex and have a spunky best friend who tells it like it is! But I've also got PROBLEMS! Aw GEE! Why don't you sit there while I sing them at you? SWELL!"

I got about ten minutes into the bootleg and hated the living heck out of Samantha. I fast forwarded to see if she ends up becoming a prostitute or a murderer or something...and it didn't look like the story improved.

See? When I say I need some Musical Bootleg hook-ups, I MEAN IT! Help me here! Look at what I'm exposing myself too..!!!

[Rinaldo]

In the stage show, as in T.H. White's book, the whole final tragic outcome happens because Mordred bursts into Guenevere's bedroom with his henchmen, and they find Lancelot there. Lance escapes, but having promised Arthur he would never harm Mordred (about whom the king feels guilty), he leaves witnesses. and thus the trial, the attempted execution, etc.

Of course Julie Andrews had it in her as an actress. And very likely she wanted the show to be written as it should be, with the queen having a long-term affair with Lance. But early audiences apparently just weren't havin' it. Extramarital sex existed in the 50s in serious drama, not as the act of a beloved musical ingenue. I was around then; it was a repressive time. (Not defending their choice, but I can see what the pressures were.)

I've been immersed in this stuff for decades, and part of my college music studies was research in all this. I continue my research now, and I've looked at manuscripts in the Library of Congress for instance (including all the original Camelot orchestra scores).

The bonus feature I remember from this DVD is the ability to turn off the voices and watch the movie hearing only the orchestra. It seems like a mean choice for them to have made available (as the vocal qualities of the two stars have been complained about so often over the years), but for that very reason I find it a useful one.

[aradia22]

 

So Aradia...have you watched Emma in Cabaret yet?

I saw it in person so I'm not in a rush. Still seeing plays and concerts here and there. Just nothing I feel like reporting back on. For instance... Burial at Thebes? A pretty straightforward Antigone. The political allegory is only vaguely sort of there and the "Irishness" only comes through in bits. If you've never seen Antigone and don't want to read the play, go see it. If you know the play it's pretty boring watching it play out. I found myself waiting for certain plot points so I could gauge how much longer I'd have to sit there. And it was only an 80 minute show with no intermission. It feels like a college-level production in a lot of ways. Not terrible, just not necessary.

[methodwriter85]

Ha! Mama's always know, don't they?

I'm not even familiar enough with the movie or show to understand what you mean by Mordred catching Lance in Gwen's room...sorry 'bout that. Here you are trying to make a point and I can't even follow. Unless you just meant that Gwen didn't get nasty in the show, which I did somehow know.

Do you ever wonder how you know so much about Broadway stuff? It amazes me what stays registered in my mind and what doesn't...

Anyway, I get that crowds were too uptight to want to be confronted with the reality of adultery, but come on now...Julie would have sold the emotions of the moment very well. I can imagine it playing out like the scene in Sound of Music where the Baroness makes it clear Maria's caught her boss' eye. Shame, looking away, maybe even smoothing her dress or holding her mouth...she would have made it work. Lord knows people were cheating on each other even when this show first hit the stage.

Never knew they didn't marry until years later though...interesting.

Oh wait - maybe I learned all this from bonus features on the DVD? Did the DVD have bonus features? Ahhh forget it! I can't remember nuthin'.

Tried to watch The AutoBiography of Samantha Brown last night and I wanted to rip my own head off and use it as a basketball. I really, really can't stand stories about kids in High School anymore and especially "Rory Gilmore" kids who star in the story being told and are all like "So my life's all normal see! My parents love me too much, and I'm Valedictorian and have perfect grades and abstain from sex and have a spunky best friend who tells it like it is! But I've also got PROBLEMS! Aw GEE! Why don't you sit there while I sing them at you? SWELL!"

I got about ten minutes into the bootleg and hated the living heck out of Samantha. I fast forwarded to see if she ends up becoming a prostitute or a murderer or something...and it didn't look like the story improved.

See? When I say I need some Musical Bootleg hook-ups, I MEAN IT! Help me here! Look at what I'm exposing myself too..!!!

 

See, that's what I loved about Natalie Goodman in Next to Normal. I knew the overachiever kids (my high school was right next to a high school specializing in math and science), and the reality is that most of them were stressed out and chowing down on Adderall or some other kind stimulant that helped them stay up and study. Cory from Empire Records (now THERE'S a musical adaption that should happen!) was much, much closer to reality of Honor Society kids.

[aradia22]

The first Secret Garden concert (the one at the Lucille Lortel that benefited Make a Wish) was good. I mean, honestly it was mixed but I'm making a lot of allowances because they probably didn't have a lot of time to rehearse and it was only partially staged with the orchestra taking up most of the space, etc. If you want, I can go into it. Let me know. The Colin was very cute. Rebecca Luker was magnificent. The Dickon songs fit better in context (vs. on the album). I do think the story felt a little weak. I'm not sure if they cut any of the book because it ran about 3 hours (but they also seated us late and there were speeches in the beginning). Lily's sister and Dr. Craven are kind of villains... but not really. It feels like there was something driving the plot there but it got rewritten but then when you get to the end it's a bit deflating because it doesn't seem like there was a real arc. I do like the bits with Lily's ghost but the other ghosts don't make as much sense (though I do like all the choral/ensemble singing). I wish they'd built up the childrens' stories more. I didn't need the love triangle that's in other versions but I needed more than the disconnected scenes of them together. They were some of the best moments so I wish they'd had more weight to them. Controversial opinion... I still like Doctor Zhivago better. But I'm looking forward to the Sydney Lucas concert.

[aradia22]

Listened to The Pajama Game for the first time. I knew "Hey There" and I was vaguely aware of some of the other songs but I was still pretty unfamiliar with the score. Wow. Loved it. I think it starts off with a bang and on the whole the romantic/relationship songs and stronger while the other songs meander from the plot a bit but still. Love it. Ugh, and John Raitt's voice! I can't. I don't think I would have liked the recent revival because I don't like Harry Connick Jr. but I'd really like to see this on stage now.

[aradia22]

The TNR was getting too long so I will be splitting it into two parts. Highlights for Part 1!

• Noises Off opens. The Flick closes
• The daily discount lottery at Hamilton will continue to be offered outdoors on the steps of the Richard Rodgers Theatre, but Ham4Ham has moved online.
• IN DEVELOPMENT: The Prom, Freaky Friday
• CASTING: Nick Cordero Waitress, The Robber Bridegroom, American Psycho, The Wildness: Sky-Pony’s Rock Fairy Tale, Alison Luff Les Miserables
• CONCERTS: Broadway Backwards 11 will be presented March 21 at 8 PM at Broadway's Al Hirschfeld Theatre.
• Nerds coming to Broadway
• You Are Perfect, a new play about the life of convicted murderer and "Manson family Susan Atkins.
• David Bowie's album "Blackstar" and Dave Malloy's Preludes were released Jan. 8.
• Kate Baldwin will play Anna Leonowens opposite the King of Paolo Montalban in the forthcoming Chicago production of Rodgers and Hammerstein's The King and I. The production is scheduled to run April 29-May 22 at Lyric Opera of Chicago. (I want to see this SO BADLY.)
• "Josh Groban: Stages Live" in select cinemas around the country Feb. 4 at 7:30 PM ET.
• Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill starring Audra McDonald will make its debut on HBO March 12.
• Hairspray will be NBC's next live musical

[DisneyBoy]

See, that's what I loved about Natalie Goodman in Next to Normal. I knew the overachiever kids (my high school was right next to a high school specializing in math and science), and the reality is that most of them were stressed out and chowing down on Adderall or some other kind stimulant that helped them stay up and study. Cory from Empire Records (now THERE'S a musical adaption that should happen!) was much, much closer to reality of Honor Society kids.

 

Yeah, I think she was much more interesting as a character. And really, I don't have anything against kids who do well in school - it's just so tiresome when their success is presented as a given and cute and pat. It isn't. You pour yourself into one thing and other things suffer. At least with Gilmore Girls, Rory was pretty socially inept and that played out in the show, right?

[Charlie Baker]

Aradia, you just might like the movie of Pajama Game.  It's "stagy" enough to give you the idea of what the original production might have been like, and it's got Raitt, also a well cast Doris Day.

 

 I've often said there's probably only one star who could entice me to see a Hello, Dolly! revival and now she's going to do it.  But not until 2017.

 

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/bette-midler-coming-to-broadway-in-hello-dolly/?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur

[Julia]

Aradia, you just might like the movie of Pajama Game. It's "stagy" enough to give you the idea of what the original production might have been like, and it's got Raitt, also a well cast Doris Day.

It's pretty good. They brought in the all the leads of the Broadway cast with the exception of Janice Paige, who (as seemed to be her bitter fate) was replaced by Doris Day. The story was that the studio insisted on a movie star in one of the lead roles, and when they couldn't get Frank Sinatra to replace Raitt they replaced Paige instead. But you can see the chemistry from the cast who starred on Broadway, and Carol Haney is amazing.

ETA: Ack. Janis. Janis Paige.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Julia

[Rinaldo]

Something similar happened with the other Adler/Ross collaboration, Damn Yankees. They managed to retain almost all the elements of the stage production, but they had to have a star somewhere, so Stephen Douglass was replaced by Tab Hunter.

 

Interestingly, in both cases the other leading player made no impact on the movie world. John Raitt never made another movie, and Gwen Verdon made no more until her "grandmother" phase, when she got a handful of jobs as a nonmusical actress.

[Rick Kitchen]

So, Lily James is going to be Juliet and Richard Madden is going to be Romeo in a production directed by Kenneth Branagh.  But ... Derek Jacobi as Mercutio?  How is that a good thing?

 

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/183486/odds-ends-lily-james-talks-romeo-and-juliet-nerves-first-look-at-john-gallagher-jr-in-10-cloverfield-lane-more/

[JustaPerson]

Lily James and Richard Madden are so pretty together.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, I think she was much more interesting as a character. And really, I don't have anything against kids who do well in school - it's just so tiresome when their success is presented as a given and cute and pat. It isn't. You pour yourself into one thing and other things suffer. At least with Gilmore Girls, Rory was pretty socially inept and that played out in the show, right?

 

I'm pretty sure it did. And we did see her constantly studying, and it wasn't just given to her.

 

I did find Natalie Goodman incredibly realistic. I wonder if that was kind of the point- Natalie is a very realistic character, while Gabe was presented as the "perfect Honor Society jock kid" type.

Edited January 21, 2016 by methodwriter85

[Rick Kitchen]

Valentines for "Hamilton" fans (aka Hamiltines):

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/01/21/these_hamilton_valentines_aka_hamiltines_are_the_perfect_gift_for_the_hamilton.html

[JustaPerson]

So I saw The Last Five Years movie on netflix last night. Did anyone else catch it when it came out or on netflix?

[aradia22]

So I haven't quite worked out the Spotify thing but today it decided to start recognizing local files again so I threw the Heathers album into my queue. I already knew maybe 5 of the songs. It's great. I mean, I can definitely see why it didn't work. But I wish I'd seen it in person. At times it's very wordy, it kind of bombards you with information and jokes and (attempts at) cleverness. At the same time there are a lot of simplistic lyrics (which I don't entirely mean as a criticism since it fits the characters). Comparing it to some of the more modern (like pop influenced) scores like Legally Blonde and Shrek and even Hamilton and Hair it doesn't compare but I think a large part of what hurts it is it's edge. Unless you're completely with it, it's a bit unpleasant and while those shows are kind of clever and worldly, there's still a shiny/happy optimistic quality to them. Heathers is much more cynical and bitter and depressed. And I love it. It's funny but in a much darker way. And yes, the lyrics aren't as good. Though the performers make up for it. So many great choices. I'm curious how they staged this because from the music it sounds like so much is happening. I don't think it could be nearly as complicated as what's in my head because I'm thinking of the movie which obviously could cover more ground unlike a stage set.

[Lexxy]

I saw Hamilton last week.  I had been going crazy with anticipation and didn't really believe I had legit tickets until I made it into the theatre and no one tried to drag me out. I bought one souvenir - one of the winter caps.  Incidentally, it seems to be the one item they don't sell online. 

 

My husband, knowing how important the show is to me, decided to wear that hat the next day...and lost it.  I tried to be mature about this but eventually gave up and went all Ross Gellar and his sandwich on him - "You...LOST...my HAMILTON HAT??"

 

I was cranky with him until two days later when he found it behind the couch. 

[aradia22]

Listened to The Visit cast album for the first time. It was interesting and sad to hear Roger Rees' interpretation recorded. I won't deny that it gave greater depth to some moments. (For those who don't remember, I saw Tom Nelis in one of the final performances of the run.) I've come around on some of the songs though I still don't think it's a great show and I can't find the adoration that a lot of people had for it. Chita was wonderful live and I will always be grateful I got to see her on stage. I think the strength of the album is you get the feeling that there must have been book or maybe choreography, staging, etc. pieces that would make the songs hold together well but actually seeing the show it was kind of uneven and tedious at times and didn't build the way it should have.

[Rinaldo]

there must have been book or maybe choreography, staging, etc. pieces that would make the songs hold together well but actually seeing the show it was kind of uneven and tedious at times and didn't build the way it should have.

That's the John Doyle directorial touch!

[DisneyBoy]

Wow...your review makes me less bummed I missed it. Thank you!

[aradia22]

Listened to Do Re Mi today. The version with Brian Stokes Mitchell and Nathan Lane. Pretty much every BSM song was perfection. Aside from his numbers I think this might be a better show to see than listen to. I don't think it's up there with the classics (it's no Guys and Dolls) but I enjoyed it. I didn't totally get what the juke box plot was or why they needed Tilda from listening to the album.

[Rinaldo]

Yeah, that's not a musical for the ages, and it's basically never done (the heirs felt free to cannibalize one of the songs and give it new lyrics for the recent Peter Pan telecast, knowing it would never be missed). I was frankly astonished when I heard that they were recording the Encores cast, even though in principle I'm in favor of recording everything, because I figured the original-cast recording was all we'd ever need, and not something to listen to very often in any case.

 

But the newer one does have Stokes, and includes bit more music (especially toward the end). So I'm glad to have it.

 

"Make Someone Happy" is, for my money, one of the small number of really first-rate lyrics that Comden and Green wrote.

[Milburn Stone]

Aside from "Make Someone Happy," the gem in that score (for me) is "Asking for You," a very typical for Jule Styne (but that's a good thing) ballad. I place it in that category we theater-music lovers have of "songs that really could have become standards, or at least received respectable cover versions, or at least shown up in cabaret acts, yet somehow never did."
 

[Rinaldo]

I just (in Wikipedia) came across a Ben Brantley description of Do Re Mi that's too good to leave unmentioned: a shotgun marriage of Bye Bye Birdie and Guys and Dolls with parts of The Honeymooners.

[aradia22]

Can any of you explain the jukebox musical scam to me or how Tilda is involved?

 

I decided to listen to Pal Joey next. I went with the Peter Gallagher/Patti Lupone revival because I liked what I heard of their version of Annie Get Your Gun. I don't think it's him at his best or her at her best. I mean, it's a fine listen but their singing doesn't fit the style of the music... at least to me. Gallagher is just fine and Lupone seems to be giving too much. I feel like I'd like it out of context as just cabaret songs but it feels a bit emotionally flat because of all the embellishments and warbling/vibrato, etc. The score's OK. I'm reserving judgment until I listen to the OBC.

 

Edited to add: Realized the OBC album on Spotify is really the 1952 revival. Regardless, THIS is how I wanted it to sound. Lang is great. The choral/show numbers work much better. Vivienne Segal doesn't sing particularly remarkably but it works better.

Edited January 28, 2016 by aradia22

[aradia22]

I listened to the OBC album of Cabin in the Sky trying to decide if I want to try to get tickets to the Encores show. Well, I can certainly see why they want to do a production. It took me a while to get into it with all the morality stuff. The score was pleasant but not remarkable. But at some point it just got so damn catchy (I think it was around Honey in the Honeycomb). I don't know why almost all of these songs aren't standards. And the original cast sings the heck out of them. If you're not familiar with the score, DEFINITELY give it a listen.

 

I'm still undecided. It's either $44 or $65. I would put that down to see the original cast but there are no guarantees (even though I like most of this Encores cast) that I'll like the way they sing this score. I don't know if LaChanze has the amazing depth and richness to her voice that Ethel Waters had. Isn't she a soprano? She was out the night I saw If/Then. I think Carly Hughes could be fun as Georgia but she didn't have to stretch enough in Chicago for me to have a good read on her range. Michael Potts didn't do any singing in Mother Courage so I don't know about him. I was not thrilled with Norm Lewis in Show Boat but the Lord's General songs are not as low and could very well be in the sweet spot of his voice. If he could have fun with it, it would be great.

[Spunkygal]

I am dying to see Hamilton and just learned that American Express card owners can get tix through its website for a short while.My birthday is in May and found a 2 pm matinee which is perfect on my day!!! So, my question to you theater gurus, is there a less preferred area to avoid, i.e., upper mezzanine vs. lower mezzanine, or does it matter? Is it worth the extra bucks to sit in the orchestra section? Sorry if these are ridiculous questions to you Broadway pros, but I appreciate your input and any other tips you may have. I'm so giddy!

[ebk57]

I am dying to see Hamilton and just learned that American Express card owners can get tix through its website for a short while.My birthday is in May and found a 2 pm matinee which is perfect on my day!!! So, my question to you theater gurus, is there a less preferred area to avoid, i.e., upper mezzanine vs. lower mezzanine, or does it matter? Is it worth the extra bucks to sit in the orchestra section? Sorry if these are ridiculous questions to you Broadway pros, but I appreciate your input and any other tips you may have. I'm so giddy!

 

I think the non-premium orchestra seats are the same price as front mezz.  I have seats in the 5th row, front mezz in August.  I think those, or seats in the orchestra that aren't all the way over on the side would be fine.  

 

I say if you can snag a seat at regular price, snag it soon.  Good luck!!

[Spunkygal]

Hmmm, doubt that the prices I'm looking at are regular price....high $300s for rear mezz, $400s for front mezz and you can imagine what Orch tix are. I'm not bitching because it's my birthday and I have to see this show. I guess I'll bring my tent to sleep in. Weather should be decent in May.

[Rick Kitchen]

Why has Benjamin Walker been reduced to appearing in crap like this?

 

[Rinaldo]

I have to mention that there is no OBC recording of either Pal Joey or Cabin in the Sky. They're too early for that, both being 1940 (pre-Oklahoma).

 

For the former, Segal (who was indeed in the original cast) and Lang are on a 1950 studio recording, unrelated to any stage production. Its success did inspire a 1952 Broadway revival with them, but because of the standard non-compete clause in their 1950 contracts, they couldn't appear on the revival recording, and other singers were substituted. I agree that the 1950 recording is excellent, and I also enjoy the Encores recording because it's so complete, and everyone besides LuPone is good. (She's off doing her own self-indulgent thing, as always.)

 

I listened to the OBC album of Cabin in the Sky ... I don't know if LaChanze has the amazing depth and richness to her voice that Ethel Waters had. Isn't she a soprano? She was out the night I saw If/Then. I think Carly Hughes could be fun as Georgia but she didn't have to stretch enough in Chicago for me to have a good read on her range. Michael Potts didn't do any singing in Mother Courage so I don't know about him. I was not thrilled with Norm Lewis in Show Boat but the Lord's General songs are not as low and could very well be in the sweet spot of his voice.

As there isn't an original-cast recording of this, it's not clear what you heard: as you mention Ethel Waters, it must be the movie soundtrack? and that substituted songs by other writers for most of the original Vernon Duke score. There's also a revival recording

 

I agree that LaChanze's voice isn't like Ethel Waters's (though she isn't a soprano -- just your standard mid-range show voice), but whose is? We don't seem to grow/develop deep rich voices any more, male or female, popular or operatic; I don't know why. Similarly, Norm Lewis is such a great performer, but he keeps saying yes to roles too low for his brilliant high baritone (Porgy, Joe, Sweeney Todd). As new orchestrations are being provided for this production (the originals being long lost), I suspect they'll be tailored to the gifts of this cast.

[aradia22]

 

As there isn't an original-cast recording of this, it's not clear what you heard: as you mention Ethel Waters, it must be the movie soundtrack? and that substituted songs by other writers for most of the original Vernon Duke score. There's also a revival recording

Hmn. Spotify can be a bit funky. I don't know if you have it to check but they list it as the OBC recording. They don't put the names of the performers under "artist" so I just went to wikipedia and assumed it was the original Broadway cast. 

 

Continuing this digression, that's one thing that really makes me sad. Look, I love a good soprano. But especially with music like gospel and jazz and even more modern musical theatre that has its roots in older traditions, I don't care if you can sort of riff, I miss the depth of those old school voices. I never quite have the vocabulary to articulate what I mean when I express longing for those deep, rich voices but it's something that comes up a lot. I'm hoping Shuffle Along will be an exception to this. 

[Rinaldo]

Hmn. Spotify can be a bit funky. I don't know if you have it to check but they list it as the OBC recording. They don't put the names of the performers under "artist" so I just went to wikipedia and assumed it was the original Broadway cast. 

"Funky" is a kind word for Spotify in this instance. I kept scrolling and found that what they had called, only mildly incorrectly, "The Broadway Cast" [more on that later], was repeated further down as "Original Broadway Cast" -- which it isn't. This is a recording of the 1964 off-Broadway revival, starring Rosetta Le Noire, and apparently they interpolated an additional Duke song or two. 

 

This is one of the least helpful Wikipedia articles on musicals I've seen. They do nothing to straighten out the various revivals and recordings (and the movie, which though lovely to see for its cast made some big changes).

 

That lack of deep rich voices applies even more strongly to the men. Think of all the classic musicals that call for a traditional big American baritone in the leading role: Oklahoma, Kiss Me Kate, Annie Get Your Gun, Pajama Game, Damn Yankees, on and on. Now try to cast them. All our modern leading men cultivate a lightweight blend into a tenorish sound (though not necessarily true tenor high notes). Who is there? Stokes isn't quite right, but close enough, but he's getting up there and doing mostly concerts. Ben Davis (an opera refugee) has the right voice, but apparently not the true acting chops or magnetism -- at least he generally gets cast only as ensemble and understudies. Will Chase came close in the Encores Bells Are Ringing, but we seem to have lost him to TV. Nathaniel Hackmann raised the roof in last spring's Paint Your Wagon, but he too works mostly in opera. But in general we have all these wispy male voices that sound high but aren't.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Rinaldo

[DisneyBoy]

I just downloaded the bootleg of "Caroline or Change" and will enjoy giving that a watch. I've been without anything new to sink my teeth into for long enough... Did any of you see this show?

[aradia22]

 

This is a recording of the 1964 off-Broadway revival, starring Rosetta Le Noire, and apparently they interpolated an additional Duke song or two.

Thank you for the correction, Rinaldo. Please transfer all my good feelings to that cast then. I was curious about why the recording sounded suspiciously good.

 

That lack of deep rich voices applies even more strongly to the men. Think of all the classic musicals that call for a traditional big American baritone in the leading role: Oklahoma, Kiss Me Kate, Annie Get Your Gun, Pajama Game, Damn Yankees, on and on. Now try to cast them.

Oh, I agree. I just tend to be less interested in male voices. Partially because of that lack of real baritones. I can never come up with names when having these casting arguments. As for people who usually get cast it seems to be Brian Stokes Mitchell, Marc Kudisch, and Nathan Gunn. Most of my favorite male voices working right now... Paul Alexander Nolan, Steven Pasquale, Brian d'Arcy James, Leslie Odom Jr., Jeremy Jordan, and Jonathan Groff don't have the wispy, thin voices that I absolutely despise in male pop tenors (why do people like Justin Timberlake???) but it's not the same as a good baritone. But I can't really blame actors for not refining a skill that won't serve them very well. At least these recordings still exist for those of us who miss the baritone era.

[aradia22]

Listened to the John Raitt/Mary Martin Annie Get Your Gun. Nice album, not my favorite version of this score but perfectly good. Is Frank's range higher than I thought it was? This is actually my first time hearing Mary Martin sing a full show. It was very pleasant though I think her voice is a little too sweet for Annie.

 

Listened to Me and Juliet. Well, it's not awful. But it's certainly a weaker R&H score. I place most of the blame on Hammerstein. It's not the best Richard Rodgers score but aside from a few songs a lot of the lyrics are... woof.

[Rinaldo]

I think it's more that John Raitt's range was high and kept getting higher with the years, and the keys etc. were arranged to suit him. I was never a fan of his rather smug performing persona, but that was pretty much the most impressive male voice heard in musicals in those decades. Mary Martin seems just fine to me in this (but then I grew up on her version of the role, as it was the one televised). It's a part that can be rendered in a variety of ways, depending on who you have. She had toured the country with it for two years while Merm was doing it on Broadway.

 

Me and Juliet -- yeah. A lot of the score is unpretentious and fun, "No Other Love" is great (the tune taken from Victory at Sea of course), but when that score is bad, it's really bad."The Big Black Giant" and "It Feels Good" are rock-bottom Hammerstein (and Rodgers).

[bosawks]

I just downloaded the bootleg of "Caroline or Change" and will enjoy giving that a watch. I've been without anything new to sink my teeth into for long enough... Did any of you see this show?

 

I saw it and loved it but I'm a huge fan of Tonya Pinkins and Jeanine Tesori so I was predisposed to love it. 

 

Keep your eye on Veanne Cox, she gives a wonderfully brittle performance.

[Sara2009]

I'm not the best at distinguishing voice types, but what about guys like Patrick Page and Terrence Mann?

[DisneyBoy]

I saw it and loved it but I'm a huge fan of Tonya Pinkins and Jeanine Tesori so I was predisposed to love it.

Keep your eye on Veanne Cox, she gives a wonderfully brittle performance.

quote

Who does Cox play? What does her character look like, in case I can't tell from the video.

[bosawks]

Rose the step-mother. She's very pale and very skinny.

[aradia22]

In case you missed it... because I haven't done the TNR in forever (sorry!) The Light in the Piazza original cast is reuniting for a concert in April. I will be on vacation but if anyone goes, please report back!

[Rinaldo]

Veanne Cox is a gem. She's the one who forever redefined "Getting Married Today" in Company (the proof is on the revival recording), by showing that it is in fact possible to do all the words and pitches Sondheim notated. You just have to decide it's worthwhile to ask of yourself. The one time in my life I have ever done one of those falsetto "woo!"s after a song was after her rendition in the theater; I had been sure I would go my whole life without ever hearing it done right.

[Rick Kitchen]

Have you ever seen the video of Sondheim teaching "Getting Married Today"?

 

[Rick Kitchen]

I'll just leave this here ...