S02.E09: Blood Moon

[MarkHB]

Quote

Seg reunites with Val and the Rebels as General Zod mounts his final attack on the Rebellion.

[Whodunnit]

From the moment they mentioned that the moon was Wegthor ( or is it wagthor?) I knew it was going to get blown up. In  the comics, it was Jax-Ur who did the deed.

[AngelKitty]

I just looked up Superman on Wikipedia and discovered that in the original comics Seg-El and Nyssa-Vex are named as Jor-El's parents. I didn't know that. 

[clyo22]

I did not need to see that much blood...

[Latverian Diplomat]

8 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

I just looked up Superman on Wikipedia and discovered that in the original comics Seg-El and Nyssa-Vex are named as Jor-El's parents. I didn't know that. 

Yes, they were named in the '80s (post Crisis) and Seyg-El is a tribute to co-creator Jerry Siegel.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Seyg-El_(New_Earth)

Ironically, the comic that introduces Seyg-El extensively alters the Silver Age depiction of Krypton as a creative and enlightened society (that Siegel had a hand in) to a more repressive and cold one.

[rove4]

On 8/8/2019 at 11:35 AM, AngelKitty said:

I just looked up Superman on Wikipedia and discovered that in the original comics Seg-El and Nyssa-Vex are named as Jor-El's parents. I didn't know that. 

I didn't know that.  It makes me wonder why these writers felt the need to interject the concept of Lyta at all, then.  Other than to finagle a situation where Seg is Dru Zod's father.  

[Latverian Diplomat]

2 hours ago, rove4 said:

I didn't know that.  It makes me wonder why these writers felt the need to interject the concept of Lyta at all, then.  Other than to finagle a situation where Seg is Dru Zod's father.  

Because love triangles are fresh and unexplored territory no one is tired of?🙄

[Jacks-Son]

Anyone have an idea why the writers created such an extended scene of Nyssa-Vex kicking so much ass? What was that about.? I mean it was a nice scene, but why? To match Lyta's heroic breaking free and returning to the fold as a threat to Dru-Zod?

Seeing Doomsday, kneel before Zod was so disturbing.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[MarkHB]

53 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Anyone have an idea why the writers created such an extended scene of Nyssa-Vex kicking so much ass?

I don't know, but I think it was the best DC fight scene I've seen since Martha Rescue.

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, rove4 said:

I didn't know that.  It makes me wonder why these writers felt the need to interject the concept of Lyta at all, then.  Other than to finagle a situation where Seg is Dru Zod's father.  

Why shouldn't they have created Lyta? The prominent presence of the Zods is the show's one saving grace, IMO. Besides Seg and Nyssa were not in love and didn't have a romance. Their relationship was arranged to conceive a child just like they did on the show. 

[phoenics]

8 hours ago, rove4 said:

I didn't know that.  It makes me wonder why these writers felt the need to interject the concept of Lyta at all, then.  Other than to finagle a situation where Seg is Dru Zod's father.  

If you go by the canon established in Man of Steel (which came from several Supes graphic novels, Earth 1, Birthright and Secret Origins), only Kal El was born a natural birth out of a love match.  Other babies on Krypton were born via genetic engineering.

Without the Zod/El star-crossed situation, this show falls flat, imo.  If they hadn't brought Lyta back, I was giving up on the show because that was the most interesting angle this show had.

That and she was second billed.  It seems strange to cast GC as second-billed and female lead (there are news articles proclaiming that she is) and then kill her off so quickly unless 1) they were gonna bring her back or 2) they changed direction.

[clyo22]

Being born via genetical engeneering doesn't necessarily mean absence of love between the parents though. But then I know nothing of Kal El genealogy or life on Krypton.

I am surprised so many people care about this love triangle. It is the worst part of the show to me. All those passionated conversations about who deserves Seg's love more, is the reason writers keep doing this.

[AngelKitty]

Before watching this show I really didn't know anything about Seg, Val, or Zod. I only knew that Jor-El was Superman's father on Krypton and I'll always picture him as Marlin Brando.

As for the triangle, no matter how much they have been complained about, writers will not give them up because of the ensuing drama. As for this one, Seg seems to be in love with Lyta but would have gotten together with Nyssa if Lyta had remained dead.

[Grace19]

14 hours ago, phoenics said:

Without the Zod/El star-crossed situation, this show falls flat, imo.  If they hadn't brought Lyta back, I was giving up on the show because that was the most interesting angle this show had.

This! The Zod family is the most interesting part of this show. I love Seg, but he can't carry this show. Adam annoys me most of the time. Nyssa is okay and Val el does nothing for me. The El/Zod dynamics is what drew me to this show. This show got interesting when Dru Zod was revealed in season one. I can't imagine this show without the Zods and Brainiac. And on brainiac, Seg was more interesting when he had Brainiac in him.

[Grace19]

20 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Anyone have an idea why the writers created such an extended scene of Nyssa-Vex kicking so much ass? What was that about.? I mean it was a nice scene, but why? To match Lyta's heroic breaking free and returning to the fold as a threat to Dru-Zod?

I think they gave her that because she's not going to have much to do in the finale. The last episode is probably going to be mostly about defeating Zod. I think Seg and the Zods are going to have the most focus. Speaking of Zods, I'm scared Jenna Zod might be killed off. 

[Chick2Chic]

11 hours ago, clyo22 said:

I am surprised so many people care about this love triangle. It is the worst part of the show to me. All those passionated conversations about who deserves Seg's love more, is the reason writers keep doing this.

I care because I like Lyta as a fierce character, I like seeing a strong Black woman as the female lead, and I like that TPTB have written two characters openly in love with each other and not ashamed of it in Seg & Lyta. I dislike the dismissal of Lyta as a strong, warrior character and as a Black woman for reasons. I don't think there is a triangle because two people are in love with each other and the other is coveting loudly. I am fine with Nyssa as a character. Nyssa is no more fierce nor badass than Lyta is, so I appreciate the show doesn't diminish one woman to lift the other. I don't actually see an issue with Nyssa in the writing on the show, same with Seg and Lyta. The show has been clear on the characters and where each one stands.

[Chick2Chic]

[phoenics]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:21 PM, Jacks-Son said:

Anyone have an idea why the writers created such an extended scene of Nyssa-Vex kicking so much ass? What was that about.? I mean it was a nice scene, but why? To match Lyta's heroic breaking free and returning to the fold as a threat to Dru-Zod?

Seeing Doomsday, kneel before Zod was so disturbing.

I really am not sure - other than they wanted to use slow motion effects?  Because it made zero sense for the character to be that well trained in combat.  She's not a Sagitari - so where did all that come from?  She lived her whole life sheltered and away from combat - unless I forgot something?  The writers need to be careful not to turn Nyssa into a Mary Sue character who can magically do anything and everything because reasons, because that's what she seems to be turning into.  I would have preferred it if they'd kept her as being a character who manages to get by via her wits - her dad was cunning - it would make sense that she'd do that... but battle?  I laughed throughout that entire ridiculous scene.

If the show stuck to its own canon (what they aired), she wouldn't be able to take out the two Sagitari she killed in the previous episode when she escaped with the Cortex and she wouldn't be slicing folks up with knives like Jason Bourne in this episode either. 

At least the show acknowledged how unrealistic it was for her to do all that double-spy stuff she did by having Seg say outloud that it was unrealistic, lol - but seriously.  Ridiculous.

I hope the show doesn't think all of the women have to be badass to be viable.  It actually feels a bit unfair to Jayna and Lyta to have Nyssa look so capable in battle when she has zero training and they've had a lifetime.

Lyta fighting Zod was amazing though - and we know she was trained and earned every last punch.

[theschnauzers]

We don’t know the full extent Nyssa’s father had her trained before the time period of the series, or off-screen since then. It is quite conceivable that she learned self-defense as an important Vex.

[Chick2Chic]

19 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

It is quite conceivable that she learned self-defense as an important Vex.

There's a huge gap between self-defense and military / warrior combat skills, IMO. I am with @phoenics on it being too fantastical. I enjoyed the episode overall but that moment was a stretch considering what has been shown of her [clone] background and they had Nyssa out there like she was more experienced than Jayna with weapons & hand to hand fighting. 

Kem with the sacrifice play was sad but heroic. 

[Jacks-Son]

6 hours ago, phoenics said:

Because it made zero sense for the character to be that well trained in combat.  She's not a Sagitari - so where did all that come from?  She lived her whole life sheltered and away from combat - unless I forgot something? 

Thank you, phoenics!   While it seems odd for me to say this because I find Nyssa fascinating, but where the Hell did THAT all come from and what was the purpose for presenting her "skills" in such a dramatic fashion.  She was ripping through seasoned soldiers like it was a video game and I think we may have only seen her knock out a single guard back when Daddy was in charge.  The whole scene was weird and perhaps a bit beyond belief. Okay, she's Superman's grandmother, let's dial it back on the heroics.

[tennisgurl]

Poor Kem, that was so terribly sad even if he did go out fighting. He and Seg just found each other again! The last scene between them was really well acted if very sad, and I loved how Kem so genuinely told Seg that he loved him. 

I dont really hate the love triangle as much as I usually hate love triangles, probably because no one is really the bad guy in the whole situation, and, kind of weirdly for a love triangle, Seg has never really changed who he chooses, and has never said anything else. Nyssa loves him, and while he does care for her deeply, he is in love with Lyta, Lyta is in love with him, and if it wasn't for external circumstances, they would probably be married and hoping that their cute pod kids wont turn out to be deranged dictators. I think it would be decently interesting if Superman's grandparents weren't a couple but people that just cared about and respected each other on a very deep level, but not romantically. Hopefully Nyssa can get over Seg and find someone else, because she is pretty awesome. 

I know that in season one Nyssa said she did fight training with some of her bodyguards I believe, but the slow motion stuff but pretty advanced! Looked cool though, maybe pushing through the "my baby is kidnapped and my baby daddy is in love with someone else" pain was helping with the slice and dice? 

Glad to see Lyta still being a badass, even if she cant fight right now, inspiring people and changing minds!

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I dont really hate the love triangle as much as I usually hate love triangles, probably because no one is really the bad guy in the whole situation, and, kind of weirdly for a love triangle,

True. I also think it's because it's truly not a triangle. It's two people and love and a third with unrequited feelings. ( I did kinda side-eye Nyssa for telling Seg he was the love of her life... I didn't think it was fair to him and he obviously thought saying nothing was better than saying something). 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Glad to see Lyta still being a badass, even if she cant fight right now, inspiring people and changing minds!

Yes! She's still recovering too much from the Black Mercy to out fighting but I like that she's still trying to help where she can. That's real leadership. 

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

did kinda side-eye Nyssa for telling Seg he was the love of her life... I didn't think it was fair to him and he obviously thought saying nothing was better than saying something). 

In Nyssa's defense though, she DID say she was terrified that she thought Seg may be the love of her life. (or something to that effect) She kinda said it with trepidation. Sure, she could have kept her mouth shut, but why should she? It's war, and she's in the middle of a revolution, so why not tell it like it is? Should she have been more considerate of Seg's emotions? Why? These people are in arranged marriages, so emotions are really not a consideration. Besides, are the Rankless bound to a chosen "mate"? Wasn't Seg elevated to be bound to Nyssa? Their whole system of romance, procreation, & marriage is pretty Romance-Free. Additionally, Nyssa recently found out she was a clone, and is grappling with self-discovery, so she may be going through things.

[Chick2Chic]

Just now, Jacks-Son said:

Should she have been more considerate of Seg's emotions?

Only in that it makes things a burden for Seg and awkward for them going forward because they both explicitly already know he doesn't return Nyssa's romantic feelings. TBH, I  found it somewhat manipulative than anything else cause it's not like Nyssa didn't already know how Seg felt which is why she's been a bit salty that Lyta isn't dead but I guess Nyssa thought that was the time to say something out loud because of previous attempts to create physical intimacy with Seg weren't obvious enough. ::shrug::

What happened in that proclamation moment is not even close the same situation where Seg & Lyta were reunited and proclaimed their joy / love at seeing each other again after thinking Lyta was dead. That's a wanted relationship between two people reassuring each other of their reciprocated love after something horrific happened to them. Not to mention, the issue with that moment wasn't back from the dead Lyta and Seg reuniting but the belief that Nyssa's feelings should matter more than anyone else's feelings in any situation. The show has been clear on all of that.  

[phoenics]

13 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

We don’t know the full extent Nyssa’s father had her trained before the time period of the series, or off-screen since then. It is quite conceivable that she learned self-defense as an important Vex.

That wasn't self defense though - that was ninja level fighting, with the heroic "I did that ish" at the end.  It was comically, ridiculously unrealistic.

8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Thank you, phoenics!   While it seems odd for me to say this because I find Nyssa fascinating, but where the Hell did THAT all come from and what was the purpose for presenting her "skills" in such a dramatic fashion.  She was ripping through seasoned soldiers like it was a video game and I think we may have only seen her knock out a single guard back when Daddy was in charge.  The whole scene was weird and perhaps a bit beyond belief. Okay, she's Superman's grandmother, let's dial it back on the heroics.

*gasp*

Maybe it was an ode to Zack Snyder?  I mean they chose the wrong character for it but the entire sequence felt like 300.

Edited August 12, 2019 by phoenics

[phoenics]

47 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

True. I also think it's because it's truly not a triangle. It's two people and love and a third with unrequited feelings. ( I did kinda side-eye Nyssa for telling Seg he was the love of her life... I didn't think it was fair to him and he obviously thought saying nothing was better than saying something). 

Yes! She's still recovering too much from the Black Mercy to out fighting but I like that she's still trying to help where she can. That's real leadership. 

I agree about Nyssa telling Seg.  I thought that was really selfish - especially right on the heels of Lyta coming back.  Actually scratch that - I felt it was more manipulative than selfish.  Nyssa needs a friend to confide in - confiding to Seg only puts him in the position of having to knowingly hurt her constantly. Which is really unfair to Seg because he's not responsible for her feelings.

She should have protected her feelings better.  Contrary to popular belief, you can choose who you love.  She should try that and stop manipulating Seg with her emotions.

What's crazy to me is how fast she was trying to move in on Seg after Lyta died.  I mean - it was days, if that.

I'm SO glad Lyta isn't dead.  I was almost sure these producers were gonna make Lyta die for that ship and the status quo.  I've been jaded by Sleepy Hollow, Twisted and so many other shows.

[phoenics]

27 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Only in that it makes things a burden for Seg and awkward for them going forward because they both explicitly already know he doesn't return Nyssa's romantic feelings. TBH, I  found it somewhat manipulative than anything else cause it's not like Nyssa didn't already know how Seg felt which is why she's been a bit salty that Lyta isn't dead but I guess Nyssa thought that was the time to say something out loud because of previous attempts to create physical intimacy with Seg weren't obvious enough. ::shrug::

I wish I'd read further before my response - I totally agree.  I too found it manipulative.  Also - them showing her being sad at Lyta's return really cast her in a bad light, imo.  That's not a good look for Superman's Grandmother.  

And I know this is subjective, but I just don't see any chemistry between Nyssa and Seg.  He gives nothing back in his scenes with her, imo.  She tries really hard to "make fetch happen" but it's awkward at best.  Especially when you compare how Seg looks at Lyta, vs even when Seg/Nyssa had that awkward kiss in S1. 

What happened in that proclamation moment is not even close the same situation where Seg & Lyta were reunited and proclaimed their joy / love at seeing each other again after thinking Lyta was dead. That's a wanted relationship between two people reassuring each other of their reciprocated love after something horrific happened to them. Not to mention, the

issue with that moment wasn't back from the dead Lyta and Seg reuniting but the belief that Nyssa's feelings should matter more than anyone else's feelings in any situation. The show has been clear on all of that. 

What do you mean the show has been clear on all of that?  That it's about Lyta and Seg?  Or Nyssa?  I got confused.

To me, the show has clearly shown that Nyssa is Dev's counterpart - someone with unrequited love for someone who is in love with the love of his/her life.

[Chick2Chic]

9 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Quote

issue with that moment wasn't back from the dead Lyta and Seg reuniting but the belief that Nyssa's feelings should matter more than anyone else's feelings in any situation. The show has been clear on all of that. 

What do you mean the show has been clear on all of that?  That it's about Lyta and Seg?  Or Nyssa?  I got confused.

That the show has been clear on where on everyone stands and their feelings for each other. Sometimes my sentences get too long. 

10 minutes ago, phoenics said:

To me, the show has clearly shown that Nyssa is Dev's counterpart - someone with unrequited love for someone who is in love with the love of his/her life.

I can see this. I also find myself more sympathetic to Dev. Maybe because he is better at handling it even though he's had some hiccups. 

27 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Nyssa needs a friend to confide in - confiding to Seg only puts him in the position of having to knowingly hurt her constantly.

I totally agree with this. 

28 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I've been jaded by Sleepy Hollow, Twisted and so many other shows.

You ain't lying. I'm still mad about those two shows and a few others. I am glad Krypton has not gone down that route with Lyta. I also appreciate that CC has be open & very vocal in interviews about Lyta being the love of Seg's life, something some of those other shows tried to play fast and loose with in interviews.  

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

Only in that it makes things a burden for Seg and awkward for them going forward because they both explicitly already know he doesn't return Nyssa's romantic feelings. 

She obviously doesn't care. Nyssa-Vex is the daughter of a Krytonian leader and she set her sights on Seg, a Rankless con-man who was in love with a woman who was already bound to Dev. Apparently, she is aggressive in her goals and has proven to be manipulative, after all she got her father to bind her with Seg, which is like a Princess marrying a low-class citizen. To be shocked that she knows her way around convincing men to do what she wants is not to appreciate the full Nyssa experience. 😳 I think the distaste some feel is that Nyssa has chosen to continue to pursue a man she had already set her sights on and who was in love with another woman. Some feel she is trying to steal another woman's man. There are a lot more horrible things happening on Krypton than a woman going after her baby daddy she is bound to. There seems to be no such uproar about Dev pursing Lyta knowing that she was in love with Seg and thought him dead.

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

She obviously doesn't care. Nyssa-Vex is the daughter of a Krytonian leader and she set her sights on Seg, a Rankless con-man who was in love with a woman who was already bound to Dev. Apparently, she is aggressive in her goals and has proven to be manipulative, after all she got her father to bind her with Seg, which is like a Princess marrying a low-class citizen. To be shocked that she knows her way around convincing men to do what she wants is not to appreciate the full Nyssa experience. 😳 I think the distaste some feel is that Nyssa has chosen to continue to pursue a man she had already set her sights on and who was in love with another woman. Some feel she is trying to steal another woman's man. There are a lot more horrible things happening on Krypton than a woman going after her baby daddy she is bound to. There seems to be no such uproar about Dev pursing Lyta knowing that she was in love with Seg and thought him dead.

This is a strange framing of what's aired, imo.  First off - Nyssa didn't set her sights on Seg.  She wasn't watching him from afar, watching him in his affair with Lyta, pining. She was set up just as he was after he did something heroic.  And IIRC, she wasn't even interested in the match and initially only got on the side of good because she found out she was a clone, had an identity crisis, and made a baby in a test tube.  It wasn't about Seg at all for her.

Her "fall in love with her baby daddy" trope even though she never even slept with him and hasn't had any real interaction with him except with the full knowledge that he is completely in love with Lyta just frames her as slopping up Lyta's leftovers.  Basically, Lyta had to die for her ship to happen - er, not even happen.  Seg wasn't even moving toward her that way.  He might have - but he would never love her the way he loves Lyta.

Honestly - she had more of a connection with that resistance fighter she slept with.

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

You ain't lying. I'm still mad about those two shows and a few others. I am glad Krypton has not gone down that route with Lyta. I also appreciate that CC has be open & very vocal in interviews about Lyta being the love of Seg's life, something some of those other shows tried to play fast and loose with in interviews.  

To be honest - after the end of S1 I had that fear just based on how the story turned (Lyta suddenly going so "bad" and Nyssa all of a sudden being "good") and how much the show promoted the 5th billed white actress over their black lead.

I almost vowed not to come back.

But I watched the first episode and felt a tiny shred of hope.  The show appears to be avoiding those horrid "bait and switch" tropes in the writing of S2.  It's surprising me, which is unexpected.  

I expect this show will have many twists and turns, but as long as the show doesn't marginalize Lyta, or bait and switch in the process for reasons, I'll be fine.

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

This is a strange framing of what's aired, imo.  First off - Nyssa didn't set her sights on Seg.  She wasn't watching him from afar, watching him in his affair with Lyta, pining. She was set up just as he was after he did something heroic.  And IIRC, she wasn't even interested in the match and initially only got on the side of good because she found out she was a clone, had an identity crisis, and made a baby in a test tube.  It wasn't about Seg at all for her.

Her "fall in love with her baby daddy" trope even though she never even slept with him and hasn't had any real interaction with him except with the full knowledge that he is completely in love with Lyta just frames her as slopping up Lyta's leftovers.  Basically, Lyta had to die for her ship to happen - er, not even happen.  Seg wasn't even moving toward her that way.  He might have - but he would never love her the way he loves Lyta.

Honestly - she had more of a connection with that resistance fighter she slept with.

I Love this.  It's two opposing viewpoints head-on:  1) Nyssa specifically: "Nyssa didn't set her sights on Seg" - "  Nyssa set up her father to bind her to Seth. But how can you ignore this:

Nyssa + Seg | C'mon, There's Heat!!!

[rove4]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:03 AM, clyo22 said:

I am surprised so many people care about this love triangle. It is the worst part of the show to me

This!  I agree that the Zods are an interesting part of the show but, for me, that only includes Dru and Jayna.  Lyta is one big snooze.  She has no spark, no charisma...just bland.  And I personally don't care about Seg's romantic life.  I'd just as soon they leave that out altogether.  But if they were bound and determined to include it, I just wish they'd found a more dynamic actress. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by rove4

[Chick2Chic]

14 hours ago, phoenics said:

To be honest - after the end of S1 I had that fear just based on how the story turned (Lyta suddenly going so "bad" and Nyssa all of a sudden being "good") and how much the show promoted the 5th billed white actress over their black lead.

I almost vowed not to come back.

But I watched the first episode and felt a tiny shred of hope.  The show appears to be avoiding those horrid "bait and switch" tropes in the writing of S2.  It's surprising me, which is unexpected.  

I expect this show will have many twists and turns, but as long as the show doesn't marginalize Lyta, or bait and switch in the process for reasons, I'll be fine.

I noticed all of this too so you're not alone in your feelings but I feel like S2 has been more solid on establishing Lyta's mental strength (a la Black Mercy and Dru having to replace her cause he couldn't bend her will), her learning from her past mistakes with Dru and atoning, and not trying to backburner her as the female lead to prop someone else (shades of early seasons of The Flash and Arrow there). So it's been a pleasant, welcome change to a tired trope IMO. 

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, rove4 said:

This!  I agree that the Zods are an interesting part of the show but, for me, that only includes Dru and Jayna.  Lyta is one big snooze.  She has no spark, no charisma...just bland.  And I personally don't care about Seg's romantic life.  I'd just as soon they leave that out altogether.  But if they were bound and determined to include it, I just wish they'd found a more dynamic actress. 

Hmmm... Georgina Chapman is a BAFTA award winning actress, so... I personally find Lyta, dynamic, complex and the actress has managed to give Lyta depth in a really powerful arc of star-crossed love, a fall from grace, incredible pain and torment and finally redemption.

I once had a really engaging conversation with one of my friends (a tv showrunner) about how powerful tropes and stereotypes can be in writing and how sometimes similar actresses (to Georgina C) are referred to as boring and bland when they don't embody the sassy sidekick role like they've usually been relegated to play.  

I remember Gwen from Merlin (played by Angel Coulby) was characterized similarly.  I remember reading a great article about that - about how it's so unusual to see a character embodied by a black actress be allowed to simply be "sweet" and "nice" instead of the usual sassy spitfire stereotype we've been ... treated ... to for so long.  Sometimes if those characters aren't "sassy" ... to some they sadly become "invisible or bland". 

Personally it's really nice to get a range of personalities for black women characters.  I know a lot of writers sometimes feel they have to make their black characters "perfect" in order shield them from unconscious bias and racism (my friend and I talked about this specifically), but it's great that they've made Lyta complex enough to be nice and sweet, but also tough as nails and also flawed - she makes mistakes and isn't infallible.

I also love that she's given an interior life - like her mother has been too.  I love that we got both Jayna AND Lyta - two great women.  But I do believe that characters like Jayna are the "norm" for black women actresses and roles like Lyta usually aren't embodied by black women actresses.  The norm is for those roles to be embodied by white women.  And I think in general societal winds still rest more easily when the latter is the case.  I'm really glad the producers and writers of this show haven't gone down that path and given us both a strong character in Jayna AND in Lyta, showing you can have variety in the characters you make available for black women actresses.  I daresay Krypton has done a lot better with Lyta than The Flash has done with Iris (and I love Iris).

Edited August 13, 2019 by phoenics

[rove4]

Actually, I find "sassy" characters to be rather annoying most of the time.  I've read a lot of urban fantasy books over the years and that's about the only type of female character written in those types of books...as if that's the only way to portray a strong, spirited woman.  So I have no problem with female characters of any skin color being written differently.  I'm perfectly fine with female characters who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag because there are myriad ways to be strong (physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually)...and wielding a sword or knowing martial arts is probably the easiest way to show that.  BAFTA award or no, I find this actress bland in this role.  I've said before that I've never seen her in anything prior to this show so maybe she's knocked it out of the park in some other role.  I can only form my opinion based on what I see here and I also choose to form my own opinions on stuff rather than letting critics or award shows dictate how I should feel about a actor or movie/tv show.

Edited August 13, 2019 by rove4

[phoenics]

On 8/10/2019 at 11:03 AM, clyo22 said:

All those passionated conversations about who deserves Seg's love more, is the reason writers keep doing this.

Except there isn't a question about who deserves what.  That's not what love is.  You don't do anything to "deserve" some dude - it's just love, which is a choice.  Seg isn't sitting there weighing Lyta vs Nyssa - Nyssa isn't even on his radar that way - only Lyta is.

The show has been pretty damn clear that this is a story of star-crossed love between Seg and Lyta and all of the drama and dynamics that spin out from that.

What's funny is this isn't even a triangle.  If we're gonna be clear - it's a quad.  Dev actually was closer to Lyta than Nyssa ever got to Seg.  And even he realized that it was all about Lyta and Seg.  The only one who hasn't seemed to get that yet is Nyssa, lol.

1 minute ago, rove4 said:

Actually, I find "sassy" characters to be rather annoying most of the time.  I've read a lot of urban fantasy books over the years and that's about the only type of female character written in those types of books...as if that's the only way to portray a strong, spirited woman.  So I have no problem with female characters of any skin color being written differently.  I'm perfectly fine with female characters who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag because there are myriad ways to be strong (physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually)...and wielding a sword or knowing martial arts is probably the easiest way to do that.  BAFTA award or no, I find this actress bland in this role.  I've said before that I've never seen her in anything prior to this show so maybe she's knocked it out of the park in some other role.  I can only form my opinion based on what I see here and I also choose to form my own opinions on stuff rather than letting critics or award shows dictate how I should feel about a actor or movie/tv show.

I was pretty clear about why I believed GC's performance has been great - her BAFTA award is just me adding receipts.  Do with that what you will.

She's still the female lead and I hope she doesn't go anywhere unless she's good and ready - not because she got pushed out for reasons.

[theschnauzers]

Just keep in mind Nysa and Lyta are mothers of Seg’s infant son and future son. So there’s going to be this weird dynamic in those relationships. And the one person who most likely gets it is Adam.

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

Just keep in mind Nysa and Lyta are mothers of Seg’s infant son and future son. So there’s going to be this weird dynamic in those relationships. And the one person who most likely gets it is Adam.

I think the weirdest part of the dynamic to me is the whole binding thing and Nyssa making a baby in a test tube instantly.  Somehow in the past I always thought of that process still taking months and months to finish?

But right after binding she was able to take the baby?  Weird.

[Chick2Chic]

5 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Except there isn't a question about who deserves what.  That's not what love is.  You don't do anything to "deserve" some dude - it's just love, which is a choice.  Seg isn't sitting there weighing Lyta vs Nyssa - Nyssa isn't even on his radar that way - only Lyta is.

This. I know I haven't framed it as who deserves Seg's love but rather stating who he does love and that I'm baffled why it's treated as a nuisance that it's Lyta that he loves. I don't think the issue with pointing out Seg and Lyta love each other is about who deserves Seg because, as you said, Seg isn't weighing the options between either and he only loves one woman: Lyta. 

20 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I once had a really engaging conversation with one of my friends (a tv showrunner) about how powerful tropes and stereotypes can be in writing and how sometimes similar actresses (to Georgina C) are referred to as boring and bland when they don't embody the sassy sidekick role like they've usually been relegated to play.  

Interesting and not surprising. I wish I could have sat in on that cause I'm intrigued especially with the history of how a lot of Black women characters are treated when they're the love interest of a [white] lead male. 

30 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I also love that she's given an interior life - like her mother has been too.  I love that we got both Jayna AND Lyta - two great women. 

I am really thrilled Jayna has been given more layers this season too. Both women are realistically flawed, multi-dimensional, and totally interesting due to those layers.  

[MarkHB]

16 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I know I haven't framed it as who deserves Seg's love but rather stating who he does love and that I'm baffled why it's treated as a nuisance that it's Lyta that he loves.

Speaking for myself and my interpretation of what the show has given us, my answer to this is "because he's married to Nyssa." Although I wouldn't call it a nuisance, I'd call it dishonorable and wrong on Seg's part to be indulging his love for Lyta because, again, he's married to Nyssa.

[Katsullivan]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, Chick2Chic said:

I'm intrigued especially with the history of how a lot of Black women characters are treated when they're the love interest of a [white] lead male. 

One word summary? Badly. 

On 8/12/2019 at 7:22 PM, phoenics said:

But I watched the first episode and felt a tiny shred of hope.  The show appears to be avoiding those horrid "bait and switch" tropes in the writing of S2.  It's surprising me, which is unexpected.  

I know right?