Regina, the Evil Queen: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers

[Shanna Marie]

I think Isaac meant exactly what he said

Sarcasm font was implied. :-)

 

I really don't get how they can write scenes like Regina crashing a wedding of someone she doesn't even know and ripping the groom's heart out and crushing it, just because she's having a bad day, and then with a straight face claim that Regina has suffered more than anyone and is a poor, poor victim. Do the evil writing elves sneak in overnight and write all the nasty Evil Queen or bitchy Regina scenes and they just don't notice them?

[Camera One]

LOL, didn't catch the sarcasm.

 

I really don't get how they can write scenes like Regina crashing a wedding of someone she doesn't even know and ripping the groom's heart out and crushing it, just because she's having a bad day, and then with a straight face claim that Regina has suffered more than anyone and is a poor, poor victim. Do the evil writing elves sneak in overnight and write all the nasty Evil Queen or bitchy Regina scenes and they just don't notice them?

 

See, they're STILL making that mistake of going overboard with their love of the delicious evilness of The Evil Queen while maintaining in present-day Storybrooke that Regina has been treated badly by life.  It was so jarring in "Mother" when they started off with that scene, and then transitioned to a scene with Regina saying "life kicked me in teeth again".  It's appalling that Regina is their favorite character, yet they think this is doing any favors for her character.  That's why there's no hope for characters they couldn't care less about (Snow, Charming, etc.).  

[SilverShadow]

To give the writer's a teeny bit of credit, I think Isaac may have just been manipulating her and telling her what she wanted so she'd let him use the ink. "Yeah, sure, life was totally worse for you than say that rando peasant you killed on his wedding day and his grieving not-quite-widow. So...how about getting me that ink?...You got the ink!...Oh we're not using the ink? Later, loser."

In one of the finale sneak peek's he's all buddy buddy with Gold.

We also saw him pretend to be friendly to Snowing in the flashback where he steered them toward Babygate.

 

And if Regina had followed through I think she'd ultimately have found to be hollow. Because once again it'd be re-writing reality to suit her whims, and violating the free will of everyone to do it, Robin's included. I kind of wish that'd have been brought up in the show itself. Her first artificial happy ending didn't bring her any joy at all.

Edited May 9, 2015 by SilverShadow

[Curio]

I really don't get how they can write scenes like Regina crashing a wedding of someone she doesn't even know and ripping the groom's heart out and crushing it, just because she's having a bad day, and then with a straight face claim that Regina has suffered more than anyone and is a poor, poor victim. Do the evil writing elves sneak in overnight and write all the nasty Evil Queen or bitchy Regina scenes and they just don't notice them?

 

I think this is why Regina's popularity is so hot and cold in the fandom. The writers love seeing Lana as the Evil Queen chew the scenery, wear lavish costumes, snarl ridiculous lines, chew the scenery some more, and be the biggest and baddest bitch in the land. But then you get to the Storybrooke side of Regina and the same writers think she's just a big ol' misunderstood woobie who needs a hug and deserves all the happiness and friendship in the world. For me (others may disagree), that's too big of a cognitive dissonance between the writers' version of "The Evil Queen" character who gets to rip out hearts and kill villages for fun because what happens in Misthaven stays in Misthaven (unless you're a Charming, then that shit comes back to haunt you for an entire half season), and "The Redeemed Regina" character who deserves a happy ending so much that they're willing to devote an entire season's arc on it and change other characters' personalities to meet that arc.

 

There's just too much leeway given to the villains on this show. If we were shown a flashback of Snow or Charming tearing someone's heart out on their wedding day and crushing it, we would never hear the end of it. We would spend multiple episodes going over how horrible of an act Snow and Charming did and everyone would shun them. But with Regina or any of the other over-the-top scene-chewing villains, we're supposed to laugh and say, "Oh, that darn Regina. There she goes tearing hearts out again! Isn't it fun watching someone be so evil?"

[Katherine]

It's the fact that Regina is still claiming victimhood that makes her so-called redemption arc unsatisfying to me. If she were really and truly redeemed, she'd need to recognize the wrongs she's done and focus on that rather than focusing on how she feels she's been wronged.

This. For me, the fact that Regina still whines about 'life kicking her in the teeth' is one of the main reasons I have trouble rooting for her. I would like to think that her lack of self-awareness is a deliberate choice by the writers and what they're really trying to show is that this character is deluded, but I don't think that's the case. Yes, the author's statement about Regina being screwed over could be interpreted as him just sucking up to her, but the way that Regina agrees with him makes me think the writers agree too. If they didn't, I feel like they would have had the other characters point out all the problems with Operation Mongoose instead of going along with it. I appreciated that Regina ended up acknowledging that she's responsible for her own happy ending, but there wasn't really much build-up to it. I think it would have worked better if they had portrayed Operation Mongoose as questionable from the start. Instead, I got the sense that the audience was supposed to be rooting for Regina to be successful in her quest. If we were supposed to be sitting here saying "duh Regina just needs to make better choices" (which many of us actually were), then I think they would have done things differently or there would have been more of a sense of (intentional) irony any time Regina complained her crappy life.

[KingOfHearts]

I've gotten to the point where I just accept that Regina is the Awesomest Savior of Lighthood who deserves her fated true love, Robin Hood. To move forward, I have to see it as a fabric of the show. It's immutable and what's done is done. She's now this totally other character who's been retconned to death and now we all have to live with it. It's unjust, but this is entertainment and I'm not entertained each time I go back in my mind to remember all the evil things she's done every time she's honored as a hero. I don't have a problem with the character, just the stinky writing around it.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of the Woegina business and I'm now hoping her character can do something else - like save Emma since she pretty much owes it to her. If she stops whining about her happy ending, then whatever goes.

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

All I have to say is that Regina better stop bitching about her life sucking now. Emma, whose life Regina basically destroyed, stepped up and sacrificed herself so that Regina could have her happy ending. One fucking word out of Regina's mouth about how the universe is out to get her and I'll be all for Dark!Emma smiting her from the face of the earth.

[KingOfHearts]

If Regina was portrayed as a psychopath rather than a hero, would she be more tolerable? If her loyal followers sucked into the void were shown to be off their rockers, could her character be easier to stomach? I could find Regina to be an interesting character if she wanted to be a Mary Sue, but people outside her cult knew how diluted she was. If Snow wants to have a guilt complex, then instead of it being honorable, it should be messed up. (Because it is.) That would be much more intriguing than the instant hero canonization.

 

Sometimees I think great potential is staring right into the writers' faces, and they don't even recognize it.

Edited May 26, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I still question whether Regina actually wants to be a hero. She sort of admitted that it wasn't really her thing when she told Snow she was only being good because she thought it would get her what she wanted. She decided villains couldn't get a happy ending, so she needed to not be a villain. When that didn't work, she decided on a different method. She teamed up with Team Hero because they could help, not because she wanted to be a hero. The question would be if Henry & Robin were cool with her being either evil or good, which would she choose? I don't mean she'd have to be a heart-ripping, village massacring villain, but would she choose to be selfless and giving, constantly working for redemption and grace or would she be happier being able to be selfish and using her power in less than positive ways? 

[Curio]

If Regina was portrayed as a psychopath rather than a hero, would she be more tolerable?

 

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Ummmmm, yeah. Most definitely.

[OnceUponAJen]

I still question whether Regina actually wants to be a hero. She sort of admitted that it wasn't really her thing when she told Snow she was only being good because she thought it would get her what she wanted. She decided villains couldn't get a happy ending, so she needed to not be a villain. When that didn't work, she decided on a different method. She teamed up with Team Hero because they could help, not because she wanted to be a hero. The question would be if Henry & Robin were cool with her being either evil or good, which would she choose? I don't mean she'd have to be a heart-ripping, village massacring villain, but would she choose to be selfless and giving, constantly working for redemption and grace or would she be happier being able to be selfish and using her power in less than positive ways?

I agree with you! Whatever it takes to get her happy ending, I think she would do it. If it means being a hero, then she will try to change her story by getting a different ending written for her. If it means slaughtering another village, I wouldn't put it past her. I think she is still too focused on herself....if she would learn to put others first, I think she would find more fulfillment from that. You make it hard on yourself when all you can think about is what you don't have, but think you deserve. That has been the focus of her life.

Edited May 27, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Shanna Marie]

If Regina was portrayed as a psychopath rather than a hero, would she be more tolerable?

I think Regina is being portrayed as a psychopath, or at least a narcissistic sociopath. The writing for her is remarkably consistent in her extreme selfishness and total lack of empathy for others.

 

The problem is the context -- all the other characters treat her like a hero, desperately want to be her friend, put themselves on the line for her, and talk about how wonderful she is, all while she's still acting like a narcissistic sociopath. There's not even the sense that they're catering to the bully in order to keep peace or humoring her and not poking the crazy in order to avoid setting her off. If the other characters were allowed to react to her actual behavior the way any normal human being would react to such behavior, the show would be a lot more tolerable. If they want to keep the way the other characters react to her, then her behavior and attitude need to change significantly.

[Shanna Marie]

I know there's some kind of Internet rule about bringing up Hitler in a discussion, but this pertains to the discussion above diagnosing Regina as a narcissistic psychopath. I have this minor addiction to WWII documentaries, and sometime over the weekend there was one on one of the cable channels (Smithsonian, I think) about identifying some of the turning points in Hitler's life. One of the expert talking heads was a forensic psychiatrist who was analyzing him based on background, behavior, etc., and she called him a narcissistic psychopath, and the things she identified sounded a lot like Regina.

 

Part of the psychopathy comes in looking for an external scapegoat for all the problems while staying in a situation that causes the person unhappiness without actually doing anything about the unhappiness other than blaming it on a scapegoat. That really sounded like Regina, who seemed to think that Snow was the cause of every bit of her unhappiness. Never mind that Regina got herself into a marriage she didn't want, rejected the chance at having a soulmate, made herself barren and even destroyed the thing she loved most. As long as Snow was alive and happy, Regina could never be happy, and so it was all Snow's fault.

 

The psychiatrist suggested that some of Hitler's narcissism may have come from the fact that his siblings died in childhood and therefore his mother doted on him and treated him like the specialist special who ever specialed, so he had a very unrealistic view of his talents and his place in the world. He was convinced he was destined for greatness, and therefore if he didn't get greatness, it had to be someone else's fault. At the same time, his father was hyper-critical of him and insisted he get a real job instead of pursuing art, so he blamed his father for holding him back. That made me think about Cora's quest to make Regina a queen. We saw Cora berating Regina about not being ladylike enough and trying to force her to marry a king, but was there another side to it as Regina was growing up, with Cora constantly telling Regina that she was destined to become a queen? I mean, she named her Regina, for crying out loud. She abused her, but that abuse was all meant to mold her and force her into being a queen. At the same time, Regina had a weak father who clearly doted on her even while being unwilling to stand up on her behalf, but once Cora was gone, he didn't exactly challenge Regina and was a party to a lot of her evil deeds, so it seems like he, too, thought Regina deserved some kind of greatness.

 

It does make you wonder, if she grew up with that kind of stuff being pored into her head, would she have been happy being poor with Daniel for long, or would she have started using him as her scapegoat? Would she have seen it as his fault that she wasn't a queen?

 

And also, it's scary how even the supposedly reformed Regina was still scapegoating. It became the book's fault that she wasn't happy, and she did nothing to try to change her own life to make herself happy, instead focusing on trying to change the book. And yet everyone thought this was a great idea. Arrrgghhhh. I really don't think they realize they're writing this character in such a way that the same words a forensic psychiatrist used to describe Hitler also fit her perfectly.

[KAOS Agent]

Would she have been happy being poor with Daniel for long, or would she have started using him as her scapegoat? Would she have seen it as his fault that she wasn't a queen?

 

I've often thought given Regina's snobbery that she wouldn't have been all that happy living in a tiny shack with Daniel. If he'd run off with her, he'd not have any references, so it would be hard getting a new job in a stable. Regina, being a noblewoman, wouldn't have had any marketable skills either. Maybe she knew embroidery? Basically, she would have been useless as a money earner. Would she have been happy living a hardscrabble life? I really don't think so. The question is whether she would blame Daniel for everything or take some responsibility herself.

 

I'm also not sure that Regina was all about being queen as Young!Regina, but it was interesting that she was very seduced by power from the first moment she experienced it. Power is the reason she turned back to marry Leopold. She wanted the power of magic, not the power of being queen. Rumpel latched onto her need for power right away and always played to it when teaching her magic. Contrast with Emma, where he played on her protective instincts.

 

Incidentally, there's a documentary about Hitler's men that is basically a primer on the villains' backstories creating the villains. When you watch it through the lens of reality, you can understand why these men were as they were, but you have zero sympathy for their horrible and sick deeds. It's fascinating to me that reality allows us to see how sick these people are, but put them in a fictional world and suddenly they are all misunderstood woobies.

Edited June 5, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

She wanted the power of magic, not the power of being queen. Rumpel latched onto her need for power right away and always played to it when teaching her magic.

 

Back in 2A, I assumed she was initially interested in magic because she was clinging to the hope that magic could help her to bring Daniel back to life.  

[OnceUponAJen]

I know there's some kind of Internet rule about bringing up Hitler in a discussion, but this pertains to the discussion above diagnosing Regina as a narcissistic psychopath.

Godwin's Law! Sorry...back to the conversation :)

[Shanna Marie]

I'm also not sure that Regina was all about being queen as Young!Regina, but it was interesting that she was very seduced by power from the first moment she experienced it. Power is the reason she turned back to marry Leopold. She wanted the power of magic, not the power of being queen.

I don't think Young!Regina thought she wanted to be queen. She didn't seem all that ambitious. But at the same time, I suspect she didn't want to not be in a position of some kind of wealth/power. She may have just taken it for granted, growing up the way she did, and wouldn't have realized what she was missing until she didn't have it. Kind of like the trust fund kids who claim they don't want their family's wealth and power and who fake slum it (living in a neighborhood still being gentrified, not having a job, but still having the trust fund). Their tune would change if they suddenly had to do without their family's wealth and power backing them up. That's just human nature.

 

But are magical power and political/royal power all part of a general need for power and control? It may have been the magic that seduced Regina, but she wasn't at all happy when she was deposed as queen, even though she still had magic, and she certainly ruled like an absolute dictator. When she cast the curse, she made herself mayor, and she's still in office. I don't think it's just about the magic. However, I think the magic may have stunted her coping skills. She got too used to getting everything she wanted with a wave of the hand and being able to control people like puppets, so she never had to learn things like negotiation, never had to learn how to deal when she didn't get her way. As a result, her response to something not going like she wanted it to go is to freak out and then try to rewrite the universe, when most people probably would have eaten some ice cream, watched When Harry Met Sally for the zillionth time, and then gone out and tried to meet someone new. In spite of what Snow said about her resilient heart, she really can't cope with normal life.

[october]

One of the ways Operation Mongoose frustrated me was the general sense that the writers saw Regina getting help, not by the grace and generosity of her former victims, but because she deserved their support. When Emma pledges to help with Operation Mongoose at the end of 4x11 for example, Regina's smile seemed IMO more 'yes, finally I'm getting what I want', than 'thank you for doing this for me'.

 

I've been thinking about the chocolate frosted donuts scene with Henry and how they could've instead had Regina bringing the donuts to Henry unprompted and then lead into a conversation where she thanks him for what he's doing for her. He's giving up his free time and prioritising the adult who should be focusing on his happiness, not just her own. It wouldn't have saved the storyline, but I may have looked at it a little more kindly if they'd slipped in some sincere gratitude from Regina every now and again. Instead almost the entire scene is Regina talking about her feelings and how much she misses Robin and Roland, which is something we already knew. 

 

Then we have episodes like Unforgiven where Regina yells at Emma for not dropping everything fast enough to run over and help her jog young Pinocchio's memory. Funnily enough, the closest I got to being engaged by Operation Mongoose was that very episode when Marco stands up to her and Regina apologises (to him and not his son granted, but it's more than she usually does). Her smile when he gave her August's things also seemed a little more like gratitude, even if she didn't say the words. But then the scene is again ultimately about her feelings and doesn't seem to put much of a dent in her general selfish behaviour in later episodes.

 

Regarding the discussion above, I read a list of traits identifying narcissistic sociopathy at this blog and these three stuck out:

 

5. Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favorable priority treatment;

6. Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;

7. Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;

 

 

I think those three things summarise the premise of Operation Mongoose as a storyline :

 

• Even though her life is pretty good right now Regina is entitled to the exact happy ending she wants (so much so that it's okay for characters to go to special extremes to help her get it when we've never seen them go to these lengths for anyone else who wasn't in immediate, life threatening danger)
• She is owed the labour and co-operation of others (so why have her express gratitude?)
• The cost of the project to characters who aren't her doesn't matter (so lets not go into specifics about what she actually wants the author to write for her and how it'd affect other people).

Edited June 7, 2015 by october

[Souris]

Something about the heinous Charleston murders came across my Tumblr dash, followed immediately by something about Regina, and it really crystallized for me why I hate Regina so much.

 

Regina is no different from Dylann Roof or James Holmes or Timothy McVeigh or any other asshole who murdered a bunch of innocent people for some stupid, twisted reason they manufactured in their head. Regina (falsely) blamed Snow for Daniel's death, and she took dozens, maybe hundreds of lives because of it. And yet the show treats her as if she is somehow the victim in all of them, instead of a mass murderer. And that is sick. If the show treated her honestly and let characters react to her honestly, it would be a whole different thing. But it's not.

 

Yes, this isn't real life. No, Regina didn't actually murder anyone because all of her victims aren't real. Yes, this is fiction. I know that. But fiction is pointless if it's not rooted in real, honest human emotion. I don't turn my morality off for fiction. If you're a mass murderer in real life, I'm not going to like you. If you're a mass murderer in fiction, I'm not going to like you.

 

Thus, Regina.

[KittenPokerCheater]

If the show treated her honestly and let characters react to her honestly, it would be a whole different thing. But it's not

 

Since this an ABC show that is owned by Disney, and it is soap that is on at nights instead of the afternoon, I am willing to cut the show (and the character) some slack. Soap opera type shows are rooted in redeeming the unredeemable and keep the true lovers apart so they can get back together. 

 

If I wanted to watch morality shows, I would be stuck with all the Law N Order franchises.  Which would ultimately be boring.  I have found that in the tv/movie world, I am more interested in characters that change, that are not all good or all bad.  And if I can stomach a show where zombies run around or scots that get raped or a paperback writer who solves mysteries with cops, then I guess I can stomach an evil witch turning good.  

 

I curious to see what happens with Regina.  I enjoy watching the character and her evolution.  YMMV of course.

 

We can certainly agree to disagree on the her.  

[Jul 68]

I am re-watching S1E4 The Price of Gold and nearly choked when I heard Regina say this to Emma at the 7:02 mark: "People don't change. They only fool themselves into believing they can."

[RandomPick]

Regina is no different from Dylann Roof or James Holmes or Timothy McVeigh or any other asshole who murdered a bunch of innocent people for some stupid, twisted reason they manufactured in their head. Thus, Regina.

 

For some time now I've wondered if the writers are doing a "black mirror" type of thing between Regina and the audience.  Do we love her, and want her to be redeemed and have a happy ending, because she has a pretty face?  If they'd kept her evil to the stylized reality of FTL - crushing hearts and what not - then she would seem more worthy of redemption in our world.  But they continue to dial up the evil - she slaughters whole villages (yes in FTL, but mass murder is all too real in our world too), kills and schemes in our world, and still in 4b with "Mother" senselessly murders a bridegroom in FTL on a whim.  All this naked, truly unforgivable, evil, and yet I still find myself hoping Regina finds happiness, then wondering what this says about me.

[Curio]

I sometimes think Regina is Once's attempt to copy Walter White and Breaking Bad. By that I mean the writers are trying to see how far they can take her character down a villainous path while still having a good portion of the audience rooting for her. Interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure they could have her do anything at this point and some of the audience would still root for her. They could probably have Regina kill Emma at some point and it would somehow be "justified" because of some petty reason. As long as the show continues to show primarily Regina's point of view, she'll have audience sympathy. (Granted, not all of the audience. But some.)

[Mari]

It's been stated before, but I don't think they realize how truly dark and immoral they made the character Regina, and I think there's a disconnect for them between Mayor Regina Mills and Evil Queen Regina--they technically know it's the same character, but it does not connect for them on a visceral level.  I'm not sure why--it might be they find her snark funny and thus not truly evil, or it might be blurring the line between Lana Parilla and Regina Mills, or it might be the thirty-odd years that separate the most obvious of the Queen's evil deeds from the Mayor, or it might be something I haven't quite sussed out, yet--but, it seems, that to them the two are slightly different, albeit connected, characters.

 

If  it doesn't  truly connect for them, they wouldn't likely see the need for actual changes.   I don't think it's a case of seeing how evil they could make her, I think it's a case of they find the Evil Queen entertaining, and since she's not really Regina Mills in their heads, her actions don't really fully count. 

[Camera One]

I agree A&E definitely do not see this as a problem.  It's clear they have no regrets (heh) about making Regina a village murderer, since they had her murder that groom as recently as "Mother" because her daddy said the wrong thing to her.   Maybe they think the average viewer couldn't care less about a redshirt.  I'm probably weird in that I feel for every redshirt who is killed off, so I feel even more when it's a recurring character like Marion.  

[Shanna Marie]

I think it's a case of they find the Evil Queen entertaining, and since she's not really Regina Mills in their heads, her actions don't really fully count.

But what about the evil actions of Regina Mills? She murdered Kurt just out of spite because Owen wouldn't stay with her, which left a kid orphaned. Even after realizing that Owen wasn't going to stay and had left, she didn't let Kurt go. She killed him.

 

She was planning to send Hansel and Gretel (or their Storybrooke identities) outside of town, which she knew would kill them, just to spite Emma and make her look bad to Henry.

 

She arranged Kathryn's murder, not because she was angry at Kathryn -- Kathryn was actually the closest thing she had to a friend at that time -- but because she wanted to frame Snow for murder, and having a body would have helped with that. She was furious to find out that Rumple hadn't killed her.

 

She was planning to destroy the whole town and kill everyone in it so she could have Henry to herself. She wasn't just planning to kill her rivals for Henry's affections. She was going to kill everyone. The only thing that kept her from doing this was Greg and Tamara pre-empting her and taking her stash of magic beans before triggering the failsafe so that she no longer had the option of escaping with Henry and leaving everyone else behind. She got hailed as a hero for stopping the failsafe, but it's conveniently forgotten that her plan was to kill everyone in town -- which meant she was wiping out an entire kingdom. In my book, that makes Regina Mills even more evil than the Evil Queen, if less entertaining and with a less flamboyant wardrobe. The Evil Queen only slaughtered villages. Regina tried to kill everyone in the kingdom.

[Camera One]

That wasn't Regina.  It was Rage-gina, her second personality who got infused with darkness as a child.

[RandomPick]

I sometimes think Regina is Once's attempt to copy Walter White and Breaking Bad. 

 

Maybe.  But I think with Breaking Bad the audience wanted to see his arc play out to a "deserved" ending, not necessarily a "happy" ending.  I think most viewers liked the series finale - I loved it, and loved watching WW's descent every week.  With Regina, we're told "she's no longer a villain" and deserves a happy ending, yet this is presented side-by-side with flashbacks showing a very evil EQ.  The writers also harp on no one being all evil or all good, something I'd agree with, yet seem to use this sentiment as a free pass to therefore deserving forgiveness and redemption.

[Mathius]

Rumple is more of a Walter White type than Regina, really.

[Souris]

The second (awesome) video about Regina, this time about her abuse of children.

[october]

It's been a big week for Regina-critical videos it seems. Epona610 posted this on tumblr to demonstrate Regina's hypocrisy during episode 4x05.

 

 

Words cannot express how much I hated this episode.

[Faemonic]

It's been a big week for Regina-critical videos it seems. Epona610 posted this on tumblr to demonstrate Regina's hypocrisy during episode 4x05.

 

I didn't get that line, either. Emma never had Regina's back? I couldn't believe that not only the fandom but the entire viewership didn't unite in a TV screen shattering chorus of, "Huhwhaa??" Nimerfro was new, but didn't he watch any of the previous episodes? Vasquez, was that line hers? I keep seeing somebody credited as the continuity editor on this show. Didn't that person raise any questions?

 

Guess the fire and the diamond and the wraith-hat happened more than 6 episodes before that line and we must not have real lives with problems or something if we're actually paying attention!

 

As you can read, I'm having trouble connecting that to Regina's characterization. Unless she's the type of person who would be treated to a montage like that and reply, "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately? Bring my boyfriend's dead wife back so I can't have a boyfriend, that's what." Or even, "How dare you keep score about this when I do!"

Edited July 11, 2015 by Faemonic

[KingOfHearts]

 

The second (awesome) video about Regina, this time about her abuse of children.

I thought about doing videos like this for a long time. There are a lot of Once inconsistencies that need to be bluntly pointed out like in this that don't even have to do with Regina. But with her... I can buy that she was a psychopath. I can buy she believed it was everyone's fault but hers due to mental insanity. It's the fact that everyone else in the whole freaking town believes the delusion with her and that the show swears up and down that's she redeemed despite her remaining psychopathic tendencies that utterly demolishes any integrity left in her development.

[Faemonic]

I mentioned this on the writer's thread, too, but I found the Secrets of Storybrooke special on YouTube...it mentioned how The Evil Queen from Snow White was the inspiration for the whole show. I sort of gathered that, but the way the showrunners put it, that the inspiration was how frustrating it must be for The Evil Queen. Regina wasn't an idea of a character to add a twist to ("What If the Evil Queen from Snow White still had something up her sleeve after the Happy Ever After scene?"), she was an emotional core that the showrunners anchored to ("The Evil Queen must be so frustrated, let's extend the story to help her.")

 

This explains a lot to me about why the show takes the turns that it does. The entire Season One wasn't a mirror of the narrative structure of The Lord of the Rings (Frodo=Emma, Sam=Henry, Gollum=Real!Life, plot=Fall Of the Evil Overlord) but a mirror of the narrative structure of Cinderella. Storybrooke was Reginarella's ball, and Emma/Henry were a clock's hands striking midnight. Everybody's backstories were like the people who tried on Cinderella's shoes, but the story was always going to be Regina's all along! Regina's redemption was fast because it was never a redemption story but fairy tale rags to riches disguised as redemption.

[kingshearte]

I mentioned this on the writer's thread, too, but I found the Secrets of Storybrooke special on YouTube...it mentioned how The Evil Queen from Snow White was the inspiration for the whole show. I sort of gathered that, but the way the showrunners put it, that the inspiration was how frustrating it must be for The Evil Queen.

Hasn't Gregory Maguire already written that story?

[Souris]

Third installment of the videos, this one on Regina raping Graham. It's a doozy.

[Shanna Marie]

Someone needs to post these in a place where the Idiots in Charge have to at least know they exist.

[Faemonic]

Hasn't Gregory Maguire already written that story?

I don't have a clue at all about Maguire's creative process that inspired Wicked, but the impression I got from the book was that the history is written by the victors, and most people don't want to change. So, try to change something for the better, and if you lose then you and your allies are going to be written as villains and outcasts. Maguire can't have used Elphaba as an emotional keystone to his opus because he writes like he has Robotic Spock brain. All he did was document (that is, re-interpret) Elphaba's loss as a tragic figure who did something right but was still subject to the ways of the world.

 

Third installment of the videos, this one on Regina raping Graham. It's a doozy.

 

About Adam addressing Regina's rape of Graham...if only as...not actual quote..."she also killed him because she's evil and we already addressed that (so leave us alone!)" I'd then peg Adam as the one with slightly more conscientiousness and clarity, unless they both really like to push for Regina being deliciously evil.

 

But I figured that all flashbacks to cursed Storybrooke that aren't in season one, like the Owen episode, were supposed to retcon Cursed Consent.

[Souris]

Someone needs to post these in a place where the Idiots in Charge have to at least know they exist.

 

 

Anybody know how to hack into the TVs in the writers room?

[Shanna Marie]

Anybody know how to hack into the TVs in the writers room?

As if they actually watch what airs on their own show.

 

I was thinking more like tagging them on Twitter.

[KAOS Agent]

I came across this quote from Lana about the Zelena baby situation and I just can't.

 

"Regina is handling this in a very mature way. It's an unfortunate circumstance. He's going to have this baby, but he's going to be under watch. It's like he's on parole for the rest of his life."

 

I'm sorry. Robin was raped and is now dealing with the fallout, but he's on parole for the rest of his life? What the hell? Robin didn't do anything wrong. I just don't understand how Lana views her character's relationship with Robin because that is a very, very strange thing to say.

[Souris]

I had that exact same reaction, KAOS Agent. It's like she's gonna be punishing him forever for daring to be raped. But that's mature.

 

I mean, WTF? Lana really does seem to view things from Regina's point of view, doesn't she?

[Shanna Marie]

Perhaps it's a poor choice of words and what she means is that he essentially has a life sentence, since the child will always be there, and she means that Regina will understand that, not that Regina will always be punishing him. (See, I am capable of giving Regina the benefit of the doubt.)

[KingOfHearts]

I think the fact Robin was fooled by Zelena so easily just irked Regina. Even though Robin thought it was his wife, Regina still felt cheated on. Her feelings aren't justified, but it has to be upsetting knowing your evil sister raped your boyfriend and got pregnant. She's going to be sleeping with one eye open for now on.

Edited July 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[orza]

I mean, WTF? Lana really does seem to view things from Regina's point of view, doesn't she?

That's part of her job to promote the show and her character the way the producers and abc want the character promoted. Who knows what Lana really thinks.

[october]

Perhaps it's a poor choice of words and what she means is that he essentially has a life sentence, since the child will always be there, and she means that Regina will understand that, not that Regina will always be punishing him. (See, I am capable of giving Regina the benefit of the doubt.)

 

I'd like to think so, but 'parole' is a very strange word choice and this isn't the first time she's said something creepy. Her rallying for more Regina/Henry ignored the abusive dynamic of the relationship and focused almost entirely on Regina's needs. She said that Emma was right to take Regina's abuse in 4.05 because it was 'deserved'. She queerbaits SwanQueen fans despite her fellow actors being deliberately cautious about the topic for fear of abuse from shippers. She called Graham her character's 'boy toy' and talked at length about how sad Regina was to kill him but she 'had no choice' and really cared about him and look at her single, glistening tear! (*barf*).

 

Lana has a habit of saying harmful things and, as nice a person as I believe she is, she appears to have a massive blindspot when it comes to abuse. There are a thousand and one ways she could've worded it to mean that Robin was now going to be caring for Zelena's child for the rest of his life or that Regina was worried Zelena might try to hurt Robin again so she needed to keep an eye on him for that reason. I'm not vilifying her, but with her track record I'm not prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt either.

 

What this might mean for Regina, I don't know. I hope it's not as bad as it sounds or that it's just Lana thinking outloud. On one hand Regina did say some comforting things to Robin in that bar after Zelena-gate. But she spoke about herself a lot and couldn't hold off from making a comment about life 'kicking [her] in the teeth'. I don't remember her asking him how he is, just like I don't think she ever really confronted how much pain she would've caused his family by having Marian executed in the original timeline. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Regina makes a couple of comments about the Zelena situation to Robin that the show tries to play off as fun and snarky, but that come across to some of the audience as insensitive and inappropriate (like the 'you eat like a child comment' to Emma).

 

 

That's part of her job to promote the show and her character the way the producers and abc want the character promoted. Who knows what Lana really thinks.

 

Until I see Adam or Eddy with their hand up her ass and making her lips move during an interview I'm going to assume that Lana's thoughts and words are her own. She is restricted about what she can say and she has to remain diplomatic for the sake of her career. However, her fellow cast mates are under the same restrictions she is and they don't tend to come out with nearly as many problematic comments as Lana does.

 

But I am aware that, because her character is one of the most controversial on the show, maybe she feels a lot of pressure to spin a positive outlook for the media and fans, and so ends up rationalising Regina's abusive behaviour. The actors haven't been told much about the season and a lot of what they do know they can't tell anyone. Interviews must be a challenge under those circumstances and Lana appears to be one of the most talkative members of the cast when it comes to speculating about what will happen next with her character. I'm not excusing her comments, I just... really don't want to end up disliking the actress like I do her character.

 

So I acknowledge that Lana's comments do fall in line with the way the show treats and portrays Regina. But on the other hand she has made a lot of troubling comments in the past that, unless ABC is handing her a script for every little interview, she is ultimately responsible for.

Edited July 15, 2015 by october

[Mathius]

Look, I know complaining about Regina is redundant and useless and I probably shouldn't do it...but between learning that Will and Anastasia's story got sacrificed on her alter AND the obvious notion that Regina is going to be the new Savior in place of Emma just like she was in Isaac's AU world, I can't help myself. What is it? Please, Adam and Eddy, tell me what is it about this character that has so enthralled you that you warp everything else on your own show in her favor? What is the appeal? What am I missing here?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Mathius

[Curio]

I wish I could tell you, Mathius, but I'm just as confused as you are.
 
From another thread:

But the characters on the show are explicitly affirming one view, and that's that [Regina's] a hero who deserves a happy ending. The writing is so desperate to convince us of it that it can't stop repeating it.

 
The characters on the show aren't the only ones explicitly affirming one view:


 
This is one of the options fans can vote for on the ABC.com website for favorite character moments. There are multiple things wrong with this, beginning with—this is an option for Emma's best character moment...and yet, it's still somehow all about Regina. How is a moment where Emma grovels to Regina a good moment for Emma's character? (The warped way Adam & Eddy write the show has infiltrated ABC's marketing team, too.) Also, look at the tagline below the video: "Regina deserves her happy ending." How many times have we heard characters on the show repeat that line over and over? Why is Regina's happiness so much more important than everyone else's happy endings on this show? Why do I have to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer that Regina deserves a happy ending and is a better person now, but then immediately watch a scene of her crushing the heart of an innocent man on his wedding day? That kind of heavy-handed writing is just going to make me think the opposite is true.
 
If Regina truly did deserve a happy ending, it would visually be obvious to the audience and we could interpret it for ourselves. But the fact that the characters, the executive producers, and the marketing team keep having to remind us that Regina "deserves a happy ending" is going to make me think otherwise.

[KAOS Agent]

Even more inexplicable is that the general marketing for the show always has Regina as the Evil Queen. If, as the writers keep telling me, Regina is no longer the Evil Queen, why is the Evil Queen the persona that's always promoted? I know some of that has to do with the severe lack of promo shots in the last couple of seasons, but they had the Evil Queen in this season's upfronts video, not Regina. Regina-stans obviously love Regina, but there is a hell of a lot of love for the Evil Queen that doesn't translate to boring regular Regina (Note: the boring tag isn't meant to be a knock on Regina, just a mark of the difference between her Evil Queen persona and her current iteration). How can you continue to cater to the Evil Queen lovers and still try to pretend that an unrepentant mass murderer deserves her happiness? 

[mjgchick]

The Lana commentary in the Mother episode is just... I guess we're watching a different show but If she interpreted that scene with Lily where she threatens her and takes her blood as her trying to connect with the character then so be it. I just didn't see that at all. This is probably what SQers feel about Jennifer shutting down the whole sacrificing herself for Regina bit.

Edited August 19, 2015 by mjgchick