Regina, the Evil Queen: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers

[stealinghome]

What would constitute as regina's happy ending though? Being with Robin, no one hating her?

You know, that's an interesting question, and I'm not sure I know the answer. More importantly, I don't know that Regina herself could answer the question (which I think is pretty telling). At the end of 3A, I would have said that her happy ending, like Emma's, was being with Henry. But now she's all emo over Robin and trying to ignore Henry, so....

[KingOfHearts]

 

What would constitute as regina's happy ending though? Being with Robin, no one hating her?

 

It changes almost daily. My guess for right now is no one viewing her as a villain, then always getting what she wants with no consequences.

 

Her happy ending doesn't exist - Regina just needs a self-serving goal to keep what she thinks is sanity. Remember Witch Hunt, for example. She was about to commit semi-suicide until she got her new objective to off Zelena. There were times in the past when she knew full well chasing Snow was a farce, but she did it anyway because she didn't want to deal with her inner problems. It's the same reason she cast the curse instead of starting a new life with her father. It's her way of running.

Edited October 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FavFable]

I am guessing you saw the preview for this week's episode  :)

 

Did you see the tweet William Shatner sent the writer of Once about Regina? If not I can PM you what he said. It was pretty awesome.

 

I disagree with you about Marian. I do agree that she isn't a character the writers care about, but I think she is  around to give more background to Robin. What did you think of Regina's plan to find the writer of the storybook?

Yeah it is another waste of an episode. I think it is time to take ONCE off the DVR until they decide to focus on characters that matter.

 

No I didn't see his tweet. Please send it to me if you can.

 

I hope you are right about Marian adding to Robin's story, I want them to develop his backstory. I think it will make him a stronger character. Do you think with the recent episode that Robin and Regina will share more scenes together? Assuming Regina is given more screen time than the length of one commercial?

Edited October 18, 2014 by FavFable

[Serena]

George Bailey sacrificed his entire life to make others happy. What kind of "Wonderful Life" moment would Regina have? She threatens to jump of the Toll bridge and some troll comes to show her what life would have been like if she'd never been born. Snow and Charming living happily in their kingdom with the lovely Princess Emma and her three siblings? Graham happily loping through the forest with his wolf at his side? The villager she had killed dancing cheerfully around the May Pole? Eric and Ariel having been happily married for 30 years? King Leo and Sidney walking down the beach, old friends having a philosophical discussions? Regina spent her entire life sacrificing others for her own happiness.

 

The only conclusion that Regina could come to is that she should throw herself off the bridge. She doesn't need the "Wonderful Life" moment, she needs the Scrooge treatment. She needs three ghosts to show up and tell her how screwed up her priorities are.

I mean, I know it doesn't make sense as a way to "teach" Regina a lesson (or maybe it does) but I kinda really want to see it. Think of all the old-people-wigs we could see on Snow and Charming! 

[Dani-Ellie]

Yeah it is another waste of an episode. I think it is time to take ONCE off the DVR until they decide to focus on characters that matter.

 

This is an ensemble show, so other characters are going to get the A-plot from time to time. What matters to one viewer doesn't always matter to another. Personally, I'm enjoying the focus on the others for a change. I think it's a breath of fresh air.

 

She doesn't need the "Wonderful Life" moment, she needs the Scrooge treatment. She needs three ghosts to show up and tell her how screwed up her priorities are.

 

I do think a reverse-It's a Wonderful Life story could be interesting. "This is what your life would be like if you hadn't cast the curse." And obviously everyone else's lives would be sunshine and rainbows, but I think it would be interesting if they were able to show that Regina could have had a good life, too, if she had reacted differently to certain events. Maybe if she had run away from the castle before marrying Leopold, she might have met Robin anyway. That kind of thing. (They'd have to come up with some kind of contrivance so that there'd still be Henry, of course, but, y'know, fantasy show. ;))

 

Otherwise, yes, let's Christmas Carol the hell out of this story. Showing Regina her past, present, and future might just knock some sticking self-awareness into her yet.

[ShadowFacts]

I want a Christmas episode.  If the Hallmark channel can start their Christmas movies on Oct. 31, I want a damn Christmas episode of OUaT.  Leroy as department store Santa.  I want to see the Storybrooke mall.  Regina as Queen Scrooge, yes.  She needs to start having some feedback from her evil deeds seep into her psyche.   Because the Charming gang is really just giving her all the wrong kind of co-dependent crazy get-out-of-jail-free cards.

[HoodlumSheep]

A Christmas episode could be loads of fun. Also, at least Emma's been sticking up for herself more lately (calling Regina bitter, not apologizing about saving a life). Baby steps.

[Shanna Marie]

Her happy ending doesn't exist - Regina just needs a self-serving goal to keep what she thinks is sanity. Remember Witch Hunt, for example. She was about to commit semi-suicide until she got her new objective to off Zelena. There were times in the past when she knew full well chasing Snow was a farce, but she did it anyway because she didn't want to deal with her inner problems. It's the same reason she cast the curse instead of starting a new life with her father. It's her way of running.

That's the problem and potential pitfall with this "find the author of the book and make him give me a happy ending" plotline. It could actually work and be meaningful if the writers were able to be at all objective and honest in dealing with Regina, but since they've shown no signs that they're capable of that and since their usual method of dealing with her is to give her all the things without making the character do any work, I'm afraid it's going to be an epic disaster and a serious jump-the-shark moment. Regina, as she currently is, is not capable of having a happy ending, no matter how much stuff she's given, because she'll always want more. It will never be enough. She'll have about five minutes of enjoying her new status and then she'll start being dissatisfied and wanting something else that's just beyond her reach, and she'll be willing to destroy what she has now in order to go after what she wants next (like she was cutting Henry out of her life to pursue a happy ending until he forced the issue, when Henry was previously what she thought was her happy ending). A happy ending isn't something you get as a reward for being good, so give me my happy ending now, dammit! It's something that you create, and it's not even something you can work toward as a goal. Happiness is a byproduct of living a full and meaningful life. It's not going to come until and unless she can gain some empathy and start thinking of others ahead of herself. So far, she's been willing to sacrifice other people's lives and happiness to gain her own happiness, and she'll never get a happy ending that way.

 

This Marian and Robin situation should have given her a jolt of empathy. She's experiencing what she put Mary Margaret through when she got pissed off that Mary Margaret and David found each other in spite of the curse, so she gave David a wife and fake memories of a life with his wife. She's experiencing what she put Emma through when she murdered Graham to keep Emma from being with him. None of this seems to have occurred to her. She's still stuck in "my pain is the worst, no one has suffered as I have" mode, and the fact that she's blaming the book shows that she doesn't even understand what a happy ending is. Snow and David haven't had a stress-free, trouble-free life. Look what they've gone through. But they're happy because their focus is on each other. If Regina got the kind of "happy ending" they have, she'd be furious because life wasn't working out perfectly for her. A "happy ending" is just reaching a point where you're content with what you have in the moment. You may later get more or you may lose it, but in that moment you can appreciate what you have and not waste that moment striving for something else.

[Camera One]

This Marian and Robin situation should have given her a jolt of empathy. She's experiencing what she put Mary Margaret through when she got pissed off that Mary Margaret and David found each other in spite of the curse, so she gave David a wife and fake memories of a life with his wife. She's experiencing what she put Emma through when she murdered Graham to keep Emma from being with him. None of this seems to have occurred to her.

 

None of it has occurred to the writers either.  I don't buy the changing-the-magic-book subplot at all, since it makes no sense.  It takes me out of the show.  It would be like if Emma suddenly decided she would defeat the Snow Queen by becoming a fairy permanently.  

 

And even if the take-home-message at the end of the magic-book arc is that Regina realizes that she is responsible for her own happy ending, they should NOT be getting a character like Henry to validate even the possibility that the writer might change the book.  It is a disservice to Henry's character (though it's been disservice for 2 seasons now).  *Any* of the characters would naturally respond that the Book shows what has happened and doesn't dictate what happens.  Even Regina finding the idiotic Mickey Mouse hat and thinking the Magician can give her a happy ending would make more sense.

 

I'm just dreading that they will continue to have more characters validating Regina's quest is a worthwhile one... there's still more potential for Snow and Emma destruction coming up if this subplot continues.  Aaack!   If they truly want to have Regina grow, the focus should be on her becoming more self-aware, not more self-involved.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Camera One

[Rockybeach]

Yeah it is another waste of an episode. I think it is time to take ONCE off the DVR until they decide to focus on characters that matter.

 

No I didn't see his tweet. Please send it to me if you can.

 

I hope you are right about Marian adding to Robin's story, I want them to develop his backstory. I think it will make him a stronger character. Do you think with the recent episode that Robin and Regina will share more scenes together? Assuming Regina is given more screen time than the length of one commercial?

Don't give up yet, the writer has been very clear that Regina will be getting more screen time. I think the second part of the season is going to be the better storylines, just like last year.

 

I hated that they added that OUATIW character, seems like a stupid ratings stunt, but he does have ties to Robin so I think his story will be developed more. I do think Regina and Robin will share more scenes now that Marian is a popsicle  :)  What did you think of Henry joining Regina in her search for the author of the book?

 

Sent you the info, what did you think of his comments?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Rockybeach

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't think adding Will can be considered a ratings stunt. Hardly anyone watched OUATIW. I've seen people joke about being 1 of only a dozen who actually watched Wonderland (myself included).

FavFable and RockyBeach, are you Regina fans? Just want to clarify.

If you like Regina then don't give up. It sounds like she has a season long arc going for her with the mystery author, and will get plenty of focus in 4b.

[FavFable]

I don't think adding Will can be considered a ratings stunt. Hardly anyone watched OUATIW. I've seen people joke about being 1 of only a dozen who actually watched Wonderland (myself included).

FavFable and RockyBeach, are you Regina fans? Just want to clarify.

If you like Regina then don't give up. It sounds like she has a season long arc going for her with the mystery author, and will get plenty of focus in 4b.

Yes I am a Regina fan. She is the reason I watch. Although after these first few episodes I am beginning to wonder why I bother. She has had almost no screen time.

Thanks for the positive info about her  :) Looking forward to 4B.

Did you like Wonderland better than Once? Was it good?

[HoodlumSheep]

Did you like Wonderland better than Once? Was it good?

That's a hard question to answer. I think I like them equally for the most part. Wonderland had significantly less time to screw things up like Once has. I enjoyed it. It starts out slow, but halfway through it really picks up. If you're up to giving it a shot I'd say go for it. It's only 12/13 episodes, so if you don't end up liking it, the worst that has happened is that you've only wasted about half a day.

If you decide to watch it, try to watch it to the end. If you are worried about the future of Regina or the show I think the Wonderland finale will give you plenty of hope. It was a genuinely happy ending. If A&E can make a good finale for Wonderland, then they can do it for Once.

And for what it's worth, Regina may not be my favorite (Captain Charming Swan fan here), but I still appreciate her character. I only wish A&E handled her redemption a little better. When she's written well she can be an awesome character. If you like Regina I think you'd like or at least appreciate the Red Queen from Wonderland (I love the red queen).

Give Wonderland a shot. I'll risk you hating me for wasting 10 hours of your time if you don't like it. Then you can discuss it over in the Wonderland board, because there's a lot more I'd like to say but I don't want to spoil you!

[KingOfHearts]

Regina's psycho mode is one of my favorite parts of Once Upon a Time. It's where her character truly shines. I miss it, especially the Mayor Mills persona. The redemption stuff is very restrictive. She's reduced to crying about boyfriends and blaming books for her misfortune, and as a Regina fan it's extremely disappointing. I can always hope some day she'll crack again.

Edited October 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FavFable]

Sounds like Wonderland is worth the time. I will definitely check it out.  Thanks for the info  :)

 

How did you want them to handle Regina's redemption? 

[HoodlumSheep]

Sounds like Wonderland is worth the time. I will definitely check it out. Thanks for the info :)

How did you want them to handle Regina's redemption?

Hmm...more...gracefully, I guess? It's hard for me to explain. The road to redemption is a bumpy one, but I think something hasn't exactly clicked for Regina yet, which probably should have happened in 3b. Take for example Hook, he's working hard for his happy ending, but he has accepted the fact that people don't have to forgive or trust him because of past misdeeds. He's lucky that he's even getting a shot at a happy ending and he knows it too. Regina seems to still think her happy ending should be be served to her on a silver platter because she's been trying to be good for like a year and half.

It's not that easy regina, but I wish you luck.

[FavFable]

Hmm...more...gracefully, I guess? It's hard for me to explain. The road to redemption is a bumpy one, but I think something hasn't exactly clicked for Regina yet, which probably should have happened in 3b. Take for example Hook, he's working hard for his happy ending, but he has accepted the fact that people don't have to forgive or trust him because of past misdeeds. He's lucky that he's even getting a shot at a happy ending and he knows it too. Regina seems to still think her happy ending should be be served to her on a silver platter because she's been trying to be good for like a year and half.

It's not that easy regina, but I wish you luck.

I see it completely opposite. Hook has no interest in changing who he is, he just wants to sleep with Emma. He isn't changing because he wants to be a better person, he is just trying to accomplish his goal, getting Emma. The minute she was gone, he went back to his old ways.

 

Regina has actually worked to become a better person. She has had several set backs and continues to try to improve. She continued after she lost Henry and after she lost Robin. I love her progress.  I can see why she would want a happy ending. She sees both Hook and Rumple, who have no interest in redemption, handed a happy ending on a silver platter. And in Belle, Rumple is actually provided with an enabler.

 

I actually liked Hook when he was a villain. I admire your ability to find anything remotely positive about Hook and Emma, I can't.

Edited October 18, 2014 by FavFable

[HoodlumSheep]

FavFable, Interesting views. It's so crazy how people can interpret characters and stories so differently, and it's fun to read all the different analyses too (as long as nothing gets too hostile :)). So I guess we shall agree to disagree then?

I hope you get your Regina time soon! I'm still looking forward to her arc with the storybook author! And I hope you enjoy Wonderland if you get around to watching it!

[FavFable]

It is fun to discuss the show and see other's views. It is interesting how different characters appeal to different people. I know my favorites have changed a lot from season 1 to season 4. :) Thanks for the recommendation of Wonderland, I look forward to watching it. I will probably have a few  questions for you once I see it. :) Hope that is ok.

Edited October 19, 2014 by FavFable

[HoodlumSheep]

I will probably have a few questions for you once I see it. :) Hope that is ok.

I'm looking forward to it!

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, just a reminder, this is where you talk about REGINA. If there continues to be discussion of characters, posts are going to go poof. We're not asking, we're telling.

[FavFable]

Rocky, what did you think of Henry and Regina's scenes this week? All 60 seconds. :(

I loved that Regina is still trying to help Marian.

[Rockybeach]

Great scenes!! It has taken 3 years, but it is so wonderful to see Henry and his Mom spending time together as a family!! I am so glad he moved back home.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Rockybeach

[KingOfHearts]

 

She's only queen cause she married into it. She became a queen because of a man and the evil part because of another man.

I partially disagree with this in the context. She wasn't really what she would call "queen" until she killed Leopold then usurped the throne herself. Originally she was mad about Daniel, but over time it was more about her jealousy of Snow being beloved by the kingdom. Regina uses men like tools from a toolbox yes, but I don't think she ever needed them. If she did, she wouldn't have killed Graham or Henry Sr, and she'd be trying to win Robin back right now. The writers give her parts with men because of the sex appeal, if you ask me. (No matter how disgusting it is...)

 

ITA she's not a role model for girl power. She's a girl with a lot of power, but it's built on a house of cards. Logically, she shouldn't be where she is now by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

Just a random thought: Regina sees men as a possible happy ending. Emma, Snow, Marian, Aurora and Cinderella are all happy with their men. Since Regina only looks outward, she'll replicate those she's envious of in order to get what they have.

Edited October 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

Since Regina only looks outward, she'll replicate those she's envious of in order to get what they have.

 

You know, that's a really good point. A year ago, she thought her happy ending was Henry, to the point that she was willing to put herself under a sleeping curse rather than live without him. Now her happy ending is romance and at least for an episode, she didn't see her son as being necessary for her happy ending since she told him to stay away.

 

At this point, I don't think Regina knows what she wants. She keeps chasing this notion of a happy ending without having any idea what this elusive "happy ending" really is. It makes sense that she's chasing what makes those around her happy but I don't think she grasps that happiness isn't this thing that one achieves. It's a thing that happens, and it's different for everyone. What constitutes a happy ending for Snow may not be the same thing that constitutes one for Regina.

 

In the past, she was frustrated with Snow because no matter what she took from her, Snow still found a way to be happy. Regina took her father and took her home and Snow still found happiness, which drove Regina bonkers. But what I don't think she grasps is that life moves forward. One can choose to be defined by what one has lost or one can choose to pick oneself up and move forward along with it. Right now, Regina is continually stuck in the past, defining herself by what she's lost. Moving forward isn't easy but it's necessary for the happy ending Regina seems to be chasing.

 

This is what worries me about this "find the writer" storyline. Because if it doesn't end with the life lesson that everyone makes their own happy ending, I'm afraid it's just going to give Regina free reign to continue her wallowing and continue her justification for taking her crap out on everyone else. I'm tired of the character being stagnant and I really need for her to figure out what makes her happy and chase it herself.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[KingOfHearts]

 

In the past, she was frustrated with Snow because no matter what she took from her, Snow still found a way to be happy. Regina took her father and took her home and Snow still found happiness, which drove Regina bonkers. But what I don't think she grasps is that life moves forward.

 

Reminds me of "Welcome to Storybrooke" after Regina bumps into Snow and she's puzzled why Snow apologizes so much. Perpetual goodness is such a foreign concept to her that it's almost funny.

[KAOS Agent]

 

She keeps chasing this notion of a happy ending without having any idea what this elusive "happy ending" really is. It makes sense that she's chasing what makes those around her happy but I don't think she grasps that happiness isn't this thing that one achieves. It's a thing that happens, and it's different for everyone. What constitutes a happy ending for Snow may not be the same thing that constitutes one for Regina.

 

What's interesting is that she often perceives that others have achieved their happy ending when that may not actually be the case. She looks at something and thinks, look at all they have, but never realizes that beneath the surface all is not rainbows and puppies. For example, in "Save Henry" Regina points out to Emma that she has her parents, Neal and Hook in addition to Henry. But let's examine the "happiness" that Emma is dealing with in those situations. Her mother had just told her that their relationship wasn't what she wanted and Emma wasn't enough to fulfill her maternal needs, Emma had just wished Neal dead because having him around was just too damn painful to deal with and her relationship with Hook was super confusing to her and not some immediate true love situation. Is there happiness to be found in just having those relationships? Yes, of course. But Regina doesn't see the pain and confusion associated with them and how the happiness part of it will require Emma and the others to fight to find and hold it. She only sees that Emma "has everything".  

 

It's a fundamental trait of Regina's that she doesn't really understand that happiness isn't just handed to you and then you just keep it. You have to work to maintain it. We grow and change. The things that may have made us happy in the past may no longer do so now. I don't know if Regina knows what constitutes her happy ending, but I assume she'll have to come up with something if she wants the book's author to write it for her.

[Camera One]

Yeah, if she wants romance, she needs to take initiative.  How about calling a Royal Ball, to be held in Regina's mansion with all the suitors who want to ask for the hand of the Former Evil Queen?  I wonder if anyone would show.  

 

If Snow is the mayor, why isn't she in Regina's grand house?  Since they were so busy trying to keep the Curse Caster a secret in 3B until "A Curious Thing", they missed the opportunity to show the horrors of Regina waking up from the Curse in that tiny loft, while Snow and Charming wake in the big house.

[FavFable]

Great scenes!! It has taken 3 years, but it is so wonderful to see Henry and his Mom spending time together as a family!! I am so glad he moved back home.

Thanks for sending me the comments WS made about Regina, very cool. It was a nice contrast to see Regina continue on her path to become a better person and the two male villains reinforce the fact that they will never change. Nice mix.

Did you see the previews for this week. I am so annoyed.

We finally get Regina scenes and she is saddled with Emma. This just sucks.

[Rockybeach]

That was interesting. The contrast between the three characters was really stark. I was worried when season 4 started that they would have Regina regress, but she has been doing so well.

What's really sad was that so many more important moments, specifically between Regina and Snow, have been cut so that they can bore the audience with Hook.

Have you seen the deleted scenes? They were so good.

Yeah, I saw the previews. Hopefully this will be the last of their interactions for a while. I am sure they will send Hook's girlfriend back to him after this episode.

 

 

 

[Mari]

That was interesting. The contrast between the three characters was really stark. I was worried when season 4 started that they would have Regina regress, but she has been doing so well.

It's a good thing that Regina is actively trying to help Marian, and that she decided not to kill people.  But, she remirrored Sidney, and is planning on having Henry use his dead father's relationship with Henry's Grandfather--who by the way is dangerous and unstable and planning to kill Henry himself not very long ago--to find the "author" of the book and demand a happy ending.

 

She hasn't exactly made lots of progress becoming a better person, and still apparently blames anybody who isn't her for things she doesn't like about her life.  I have to disagree a little that she's doing well.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Mari

[FavFable]

It's a good thing that Regina is actively trying to help Marian, and that she decided not to kill people.  But, she remirrored Sidney, and is planning on having Henry use his dead father's relationship with Henry's Grandfather--who by the way is dangerous and unstable and planning to kill Henry himself not very long ago--to find the "author" of the book and demand a happy ending.

 

She hasn't exactly made lots of progress becoming a better person, and still apparently blames anybody who isn't her for things she doesn't like about her life.  I have to disagree a little that she's doing well.

Based on the actual cannon of the show, Regina has shown growth as a character. She has taken responsibility for her actions, and is trying to improve. As a fan, that is what I want to see.

Henry was the one that wanted to spend time with his grandfather, and as the deleted scenes have shown before, Henry is very comfortable going to his murderous grandfather to get help.

Regina made it clear in the last episode she wanted to find the author and ASK them to write her a happy ending.

Edited October 26, 2014 by FavFable

[Mari]

Based on the actual cannon of the show, Regina has shown growth as a character. She has taken responsibility for her actions, and is trying to improve. As a fan, that is what I want to see.

Henry was the one that wanted to spend time with his grandfather, and as the deleted scenes have shown before, Henry is very comfortable going to his murderous grandfather to get help.

Regina made it clear in the last episode she wanted to find the author and ASK them to writer her a happy ending.

She has shown growth.  I didn't say she hadn't grown at all--she at least has stopped actively murdering people and has once in a great while been willing to do something without an obvious reward. That's new, too.

 

She is, however, still keeping Sidney as a slave and has yet to actually take responsibility for what she's done--to think of anything she's done, except some of her behavior to Henry, as wrong.  She did is actively encouraging Henry to believe that what she did to Snow and the Enchanted Forest group is acceptable and not villainous.  (The scene where they both talked about how the book was wrong about her?  Well, it wasn't.  She didn't correct him.  She didn't say "I've changed and that was wrong."  She allowed him to think and say that all those things she did is okay.)

 

It was Henry's idea to go to Rumple.  However, she's supposed to be the Mom.   Good, mature, responsible Moms would tend to say "No, I do not care that you are comfortable with using your dead father while manipulating your murderous grandfather who recently plotted to kill you.  That is not safe.  It is not a good plan.  Thank you for loving me enough to consider it, but no."

 

She's not doing that, because while she's less monstrous than before, she's still pretty much inherently selfish;  her happy ending of the moment is more important than other people.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mari

[FavFable]

Again, as part of the canon of the show, Regina has taken responsibility for her actions. She has apologized to Belle, and to Henry. So obviously she has acknowledged her actions in the past were wrong. She has also made it clear that she was a villain. Go back to 4.1, when she tells Robin that Marian was right, she is a monster. That is recognizing who she was and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. She has also stepped up and saved Emma, Hook, Charming, Robin and Marian when the useless 'Savior' failed again. She had nothing to gain in those actions, but she did it anyway. Same with her helping Neal, Snow and Charming. She is also working to save Marian even through it will destroy her happy ending. That is something neither of the male villains have been able to do yet. Destroy their happiness for the greater good, and Regina has done it twice. The show has done a fantastic job of showing Regina's progress and development.

Edited October 26, 2014 by FavFable

[Mari]

Again, as part of the cannon of the show, Regina has taken responsibility for her actions. She has apologized to Belle, and to Henry. So obviously she has acknowledged her actions in the past were wrong. She has also made it clear that she was a villain. Go back to 4.1, when she tells Robin that Marian was right, she is a monster. That is recognizing who she was and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. She has also stepped up and saved Emma, Hook, Charming, Robin and Marian when the useless 'Savior' failed again. She had nothing to gain in those actions, but she did it anyway. Same with her helping Neal, Snow and Charming. She is also working to save Marian even through it will destroy her happy ending. That is something neither of the male villains have been able to do yet. Destroy their happiness for the greater good, and Regina has done it twice. The show has done a fantastic job of showing Regina's progress and development.

She did apologize to Belle.  She apologized to Belle only because Belle demanded it as a condition of helping Regina with the Zelena thing.  Humoring someone so that she helps you is not remorse. 

 

As for telling Robin she was a monster?  That might've been growth, too.  But she's a character that has acknowledged before that other people think of her that way, and he was newly reunited with the wife Regina was unsuccessful in killing--and didn't remember because she'd killed too many for Marian to be memorable.  Regina admitting she was a monster could be read as damage control;  Robin would be more likely to think well of her if he thought she was remorseful, and Regina has been manipulative in the past. 

 

She did also stop the snow monster.  The snow monster that was attacking Robin, who she's supposed to be in love with.  Helping everyone else at the same time was just a bonus, and since she did it while on a to/from trip to her crypt of evil, where she was enslaving Sidney?  It probably loses some points for that, too.

 

Regina did help people out last season, however most of it was done in an effort to stop Zelena.  I don't think you get "heroic rescue" points for doing your best to save yourself from your own evil sister, who's trying to kill you. 

 

That confession to Robin loses value when in a very short period later, she's once again not accepting it, by encouraging Henry to believe what she did in the Enchanted Forest is okay.  Following it up with the Henry/Gold thing?  That's not so great, either.

 

Plus, what happy ending is she expecting the writer to write, anyway?  Because I'm not so sure an alive Marian is part of her plan. 

 

Like I said, less monstery, but not anywhere near "good".

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

I would also like to add that although she is now helping Marian, Regina's first instinct in her "how do you solve a problem like Marian" dilemma was still to kill her. The only thing that stopped her from killing her was that she would be the obvious culprit. Her way around that? Go back in time so she could kill her in secret. Then she became distracted with the book nonsense. So, some growth but not a whole heck of a lot, in my eyes.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[FavFable]

She did apologize to Belle.  She apologized to Belle only because Belle demanded it as a condition of helping Regina with the Zelena thing.  Humoring someone so that she helps you is not remorse. 

 

As for telling Robin she was a monster?  That might've been growth, too.  But she's a character that has acknowledged before that other people think of her that way, and he was newly reunited with the wife Regina was unsuccessful in killing--and didn't remember because she'd killed too many for Marian to be memorable.  Regina admitting she was a monster could be read as damage control;  Robin would be more likely to think well of her if he thought she was remorseful, and Regina has been manipulative in the past. 

 

She did also stop the snow monster.  The snow monster that was attacking Robin, who she's supposed to be in love with.  Helping everyone else at the same time was just a bonus, and since she did it while on a to/from trip to her crypt of evil, where she was enslaving Sidney?  It probably loses some points for that, too.

 

Regina did help people out last season, however most of it was done in an effort to stop Zelena.  I don't think you get "heroic rescue" points for doing your best to save yourself from your own evil sister, who's trying to kill you. 

 

That confession to Robin loses value when in a very short period later, she's once again not accepting it, by encouraging Henry to believe what she did in the Enchanted Forest is okay.  Following it up with the Henry/Gold thing?  That's not so great, either.

 

Plus, what happy ending is she expecting the writer to write, anyway?  Because I'm not so sure an alive Marian is part of her plan. 

 

Like I said, less monstery, but not anywhere near "good".

What episode did Regina say she was going ask the writer to give her a happy ending with Robin? She didn't, so I don't see what Marian has to do with Regina's happy ending? Please explain.

How does Regina "not accept" being a monster when she talks to her son? The fact is, on the show,she acknowledged her past behavior, something you said in your last post that she didn't do. Now because she talks to her son it 'doesn't count'. Sorry I don't agree.

Henry knows exactly who Regina was and what she did. Go back to season 1, 2 and part of 3. He is very clear. What Henry see's now is who Regina has become. Someone he is very proud of. Henry believes the book doesn't represent who Regina is now, and he is right. Just like the book completely left out Regina's story about the stable boy.

 

 

I don't think you get "heroic rescue" points for doing your best to save yourself from your own evil sister, who's trying to kill you.

You do when you sacrifice yourself to save others, which Regina did.

She also gave up her 'happing ending' twice to help others. Which shows Regina's only goal isn't her happy ending.

Edited October 26, 2014 by FavFable

[KingOfHearts]

I would also like to add that although she is now helping Marian, Regina's first instinct in her "how do you solve a problem like Marian" dilemma was still to kill her. The only thing that stopped her from killing her was that she would be the obvious culprit. Her way around that? Go back in time so she could kill her in secret. Then she became distracted with the book nonsense. So, some growth but not a whole heck of a lot, in my eyes.

What changed her mind was seeing herself as the Evil Queen. I might be giving her too much credit here, but I think she realized simply killing Marian would emulate the person she didn't want to be.

Devil's advocate here I know, but seeing herself gave her a slight bit of growth. That said, she's still a complete self serving psycho. :)

Edited October 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[ShadowFacts]

 

Henry knows exactly who Regina was and what she did. Go back to season 1, 2 and part of 3. He is very clear. What Henry see's now is who Regina has become. Someone he is very proud of. Henry believes the book doesn't represent who Regina is now, and he is right. Just like the book completely left out Regina's story about the stable boy.

 

The book isn't about who Regina is now, what she is doing now.  It's a depiction of what she did in the past and that ain't changing.  As to Henry's views, he's done a 180, for no good story reason other than to be her cheerleader/prop.  In a deleted scene, a few episodes ago, he asked to get another memory alteration from Gold because Mother Regina is a "jerk". 

[Mari]

What episode did Regina say she was going ask the writer to give her a happy ending with Robin? She didn't, so I don't see what Marian has to do with Regina's happy ending? Please explain.

How does Regina "not accept" being a monster when she talks to her son? The fact is, on the show,she acknowledged her past behavior, something you said in your last post that she didn't do. Now because she talks to her son it 'doesn't count'. Sorry I don't agree.

Henry knows exactly who Regina was and what she did. Go back to season 1, 2 and part of 3. He is very clear. What Henry see's now is who Regina has become. Someone he is very proud of. Henry believes the book doesn't represent who Regina is now, and he is right. Just like the book completely left out Regina's story about the stable boy.

 

You do when you sacrifice yourself to save others, which Regina did.

She also gave up her 'happing ending' twice to help others. Which shows Regina's only goal isn't her happy ending.

The book stopped when they got to Storybrooke.   There's a lot of Regina's deeds that are left out--and lots of them involve yet more murder.  (As well as 28 years of rape.)   Does the book leave stuff out and stop?  Yes.  But, when Henry and Regina were talking about it, their conversation didn't consist of comments like "It doesn't know how you've changed."  "It doesn't know who I am now."  Their conversation was "The book was wrong and needs to be rewritten."  "You're not a villain."

 

That's whitewashing.  The book wasn't wrong.  She was a villain.  She's currently trying not to be, but nothing the book included was wrong, and Regina and Henry saying it is--well, that's delusional. 

 

Plus, the way she is carrying out her Operation Mongoose is  more than a little shady.  First of all, the name itself implies Regina's willing to take down other people's happy ending if it means she gets hers-which until only a few days ago, was Henry, before she decided he wasn't enough.  Secondly, encouraging Henry to lie to and manipulate his family?  That's not exactly awesome, stellar parenting there.  Especially since, unlike with Operation Cobra, the parent he's lying to isn't actively abusing him, and isn't actively trying to damage other people's lives. And the grandfather she's fine with him lying to and manipulating?  It's okay to send your child into a dangerous situation to get information so that you get what you want? 

 

As for her sacrificing herself and her happy ending to save other people?  When has she done that when it didn't directly benefit herself?  Because, again, you don't get heroic rescue points for saving someone when saving them means you're not going to be damaged.  You also don't get "giving up your happy ending" points when your ending was going to be taken anyway, and you're just trying to limit the damage.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mari

[formerlyfreedom]

The same things are being said again and again, and that will stop now.

Agree to disagree and move on.

[Rockybeach]

I like the idea of her getting Daniel back. He was her first love. Wouldn't that involve more time travel?

[FavFable]

Yeah but there are no consequences to time travel, so it would be fine.

[Rockybeach]

I also am intrigued by the idea of Regina changing history and going into the Tavern to meet Robin. If she does that, and they survive the King. Her whole past is different, potentially. No Evil Queen.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Rockybeach

[FavFable]

That is why I doubt the writers will follow that path. The Evil Queen is essential to the entire show, so they can't change history and eliminate her. That reminds me, I wanted to ask you. Do you have a favorite? Regina or The Evil Queen?

Edited October 26, 2014 by FavFable

[Mari]

I also am intrigued by the idea of Regina changing history and going into the Tavern to meet Robin. If she does that, and they survive the King. Her whole past is different, potentially. No Evil Queen.

Would she be willing to do that?  No Evil Queen means Henry's probably not going to happen.  If Henry would somehow happen, it's pretty unlikely he'd end up Regina's son. 

 

To change history that much, Regina would have to be open to at least the strong possibility she would not have Henry in her life.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mari

[kili]

Would she be willing to do that?  No Evil Queen means Henry's probably not going to happen.

 

She thinks she can have her cake and eat it too. Robin is okay with her being "bold and audacious". If Past Robin is as bad as Current Robin likes to present him to be, perhaps Tavern Robin would actually encourage Regina to be "bold and audacious".  She has no regrets, so she can totally cast the curse. Or maybe she'll just bundle Tavern Robin into an urn or something and pop him out when she's ready for that chapter of her life. That would certainly qualify as being bold and audacious so I'm sure Robin would appreciate the gesture.

 

I actually don't think she's thought this plan through to carefully. Remember this is the woman who went to great lengths to cast a curse and even killed her father, but never really bothered to find out what it would entail. She was unhappy with her curse within days of having cast it.

 

She just wants a happy ending. Maybe that just means that Marian has to die and not at her hand. Perhaps she thinks she can convince the book writer to have Emma hit Marian a little harder in the head and she dies (she would probably like that since Emma deserves some punishment). Or maybe one of the dwarfs get drunk one night and runs her over with a horse. Or maybe she's all nice now and Marian can have an affair with Little John and divorce Robin. Regina can be there to pick up the pieces and have a great lawyer that will get Robin full custody of Regina. Happy endings all around as far as Regina is concerned.

[Rumsy4]

I agree that Regina has nothing more than a broad idea of finding the author of that book and making them give her a Happy Ending. Her Happy Ending at the moment, consists of getting Robin to herself, but without getting her own hands sullied. She has, thankfully, given up on the idea of harming Marian herself--she has indeed changed to that degree. In her mind, Marian is supposed to be dead, and that fact that she was the responsible for her death in the original timeline does not bother her (it doesn't bother Robin, lbr). I bet she thinks that if the author changes the story, it won't be her "Fault" is something bad were to happen to Marian. 

[KingOfHearts]

Right now I'm not even sure she wants Robin any more. Her dialog with him and Henry seems to imply she'd be good with or without him. She'll take whatever the author gives her as long as it makes her "happy". I don't think she gives a crap about Marian, either. If she's still mad at Emma, it's just misdirected spite just for the sake of taking her problems out on someone.

[stealinghome]

Yeah, you know, I'm kind of endlessly fascinated by what Regina's happy ending would be, because it seems to change every season. I don't think even she could articulate it.

 

Everyone else on the show (adult characters at least), their happy ending is pretty clear. Snow and Charming's is to raise a family together; Belle's is to be with Rumpel; Rumpel is to continue to be super powerful and also have Belle; Hook's is Emma; Emma's is Henry. But Regina's is so hard to fathom. I've actually begun to wonder if, at its core, it's being able to go to a new land and just start over. Someone on another thread once said that maybe at the end of the show, everyone else will go back to the Enchanted Forest, but Regina will stay in our world and just be Regina, and meet some hot banker and live a normal life here, where no one knows who she really is or what she's done. And more and more, that (or something like it) is beginning to feel right to me. (Which means it won't happen, of course.) I think Regina knows she doesn't want to go back to being the Evil Queen, but at the same time, she doesn't really understand what she did wrong (slash how awful what she did was), and she's got no desire to work for redemption. So the ideal for her might well be to go somewhere where she just gets a blank slate, where she can put the past away and just be somebody new. Regina Mills, normal small-town woman, just moved to the big city. And I just can't see that really happening if she stays connected to the Charmings. It would require almost a complete severing of times.

 

That said, the thorny problem there becomes Henry. Maybe they develop a way to hop between worlds willy-nilly (it's not like it's that hard now) and she gets shared custody of Henry until he's an adult, at which point he swings back to see her when he can.