S02.E01: The Opposite of Hallelujah

[wanderingstar]

Doc Yewll FTW. She and Datak are going to be an interesting team. Her reaction to him trying to get a handjob from her was hilarious.

The show is already much darker than season 1 (the miner’s death, the horrors of Camp Reverie, Irisa fantasizing about killing Nolan), but I was easily sucked back into it, especially with the continued world building.

 

Except, Amanda's a drunken drug addict pimp (excuse me, 'Madam') who's being peeped on by Mayor Perv?  Ugh.  And how long has this gone on?  Double ugh.

 

I was enjoying the episode until that. Only one episode in, and I’m already for this new mayor to get the tar beaten out of him.

 

What's with the black veil? 

 

This confused me as well. Is she supposed to be in mourning for Kenya? But doesn’t she still believe Kenya will come back?

[shapeshifter]

Oh, right. I had assumed the veil was for Kenya, but it can't be if she still thinks there's hope. Who was the love of her life who got killed towards the end of the last season? That might be why she wears it--and also another reason why she's an addict.

[Chaos Theory]

What's with the black veil?

 

 

Honestly I think its her PimpOutfit.  She is no longer Madam Mayor  she is now just Madam.   There was bound to be some change in her and especially on television inward emotional change is shown with outward signs like change in wardrobe.  Amanda really can't wear her Outlander outfits and her Ponytail of Justice in this brave new world of hers.  Although it was kinda hot but her PimpOutfit  is strangely affecting....so win there.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[johntfs]

(...Irisa fantasizing about killing Nolan)

 

I didn't see that as a fantasy so much as a threat being made by the Irzu demon-girl.  Sort of, "If you try to tell him (or, really, anyone) about any of our secret stuff (murdering people, etc.) this is what I'll make you do to him.  So, stay quiet about it, 'kay?"

[Hanahope]

I actually thought Stahma really loves Datak, and likes the life that he provides, but with him at the camp, and Alak not quite being up to snuff, she will take over the family business to keep her in the lifestyle and power she craves.  I think she'd be fine with Datak returning, but will do what she can to survive and thrive in the meantime.

[BungalowSummer]

 

I actually thought Stahma really loves Datak [...]  I think she'd be fine with Datak returning, but will do what she can to survive and thrive in the meantime.

 

I had been getting the feeling that Stahma once loved Datak but now she's merely going through the [hand] motions, so to speak. It's one thing to admire and be turned on by his cruelty; it's another to have that cruelty turned on oneself. He was ready to murder her and forced her to kill Kenya to satisfy his wounded ego. I think that was the straw that broke Stahma's tolerance for being a good submissive Castithan wife.

 

She also was pretty clear to Alak: "Once again the strong Castithan males falter, and I am left to open the airlock door myself." Datak was an idiot with no self control who got the family in trouble in the first place by killing the colonel. Stahma has to be calculating that if she's taking care of business, why should she go back to kowtowing to Datak and his ego. If he returns any time soon, she'll fake delight and start scheming on how to get rid of him again.

 

 

I didn't see that as a fantasy so much as a threat being made by the Irzu demon-girl.

 

I agree.

 

I would like to see the Irzu demon-girl get a little more explanation by the writers. I don't believe she has anything to do with Irzu (the Irathient god) or any god.

 

From what we've seen, the Kaziri and the keys to its weapon are probably Indogene or perhaps originally from a more ancient Votan race. The keys exert mind-control powers on whoever is in possession of the keys. The gold key gave Quentin McCawley visions of his dead brother. Irisa has bought into Sukar's beliefs in Irzu. Somehow the keys know the easiest path to influencing the possessor when it conjures these visions.

Edited June 23, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[90PercentGravity]

My memory is terrible, so I am totally lost. I spent most of the episode just trying to remember what happened before. The previouslies were no help at all. I wish they had aired a half-hour recap before the episode. A year is just too long for me to know what happened before.

 

Stahma is still my favorite character. She's a pleasure to watch, when she isn't jerking off Datak, ick.

 

Do we know that Kenya is dead? I thought that was left ambiguous, but, again, I'm having a really hard time remembering what happened last season.

 

The new mayor reminds me of Alexis Denisof.

[shapeshifter]

From what we've seen, the Kaziri and the keys to its weapon are probably Indogene or perhaps originally from a more ancient Votan race. The keys exert mind-control powers on whoever is in possession of the keys. The gold key gave Quentin McCawley visions of his dead brother. Irisa has bought into Sukar's beliefs in Irzu. Somehow the keys know the easiest path to influencing the possessor when it conjures these visions.

So does this definitively mean that Irisa is just being aflicted by key possession syndrome and doesn't have some genetically rewired or hypnoticallly induced urge to slit Nolan's throat?

My memory is terrible, so I am totally lost. I spent most of the episode just trying to remember what happened before. The previouslies were no help at all. I wish they had aired a half-hour recap before the episode. A year is just too long for me to know what happened before.

Pretty much the same for me. I wonder what percentage of the audience we represent?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Do we know that Kenya is dead? I thought that was left ambiguous, but, again, I'm having a really hard time remembering what happened last season.

 

No, we don't know for sure.  Stahma poisoned Kendra in the woods in last year's season finale, but it's unclear if she just became unconscious or died.  

 

Maybe Stahma fed her to the hellbugs, or maybe has her locked up in a basement somewhere.

[CletusMusashi]

I think it would have been a much better premier if they had stuck with the normal length of 40-whatever minutes. There wasn't enough in the script to actually fill an hour properly, so it just felt stretched.

There's also a lot of weird things that seem like they only exist to make fans of the game yell "Dude! That's from the game!" For example, I assume that was what up with all that emphasis on the provisional mayor and his love of hand cream? It was being used by him, and then weirdly talked about in his speech, and then mentioned again by the viceroy... really? Who exactly is supposed to be fascinated by this? Besides, at this particular moment, possibly Datak.

I do like the show when it's about characters and zany soap-opera plots, but it's always lost me when it started getting into its techno-mysticism. It is choppy in an almost literal sense. It's like you took a pretty good show and a very bad show, chopped them both up into little pieces, and then mixed up parts from both of them. Hopefully next week will go heavier on parts of the good show. This week, the only plot I liked all the way through was the Tarrs.

[Izeinwinter]

The thing is, Techno-Mysticism is pretty accurate - There is a very old ship AI beneath defiance pretending to be a god. It is pretty darn unclear if this is just a manipulative ploy, or if said AI has actually gone crazy enough that it thinks it is a god. Regardless, it is quite powerful by any scale- it is what resurrected Nolan, and I think it is wired directly into Irisas brain. 

[BungalowSummer]

So does this definitively mean that Irisa is just being aflicted by key possession syndrome and doesn't have some genetically rewired or hypnoticallly induced urge to slit Nolan's throat?

Probably one equals the other. The E-Rep stooge doctor told the colonel that he and Yewll couldn't remove the keys in Irisa because they couldn't find them; they had somehow fused with her on a cellular level.

The thing is, Techno-Mysticism is pretty accurate - There is a very old ship AI beneath defiance pretending to be a god. It is pretty darn unclear if this is just a manipulative ploy, or if said AI has actually gone crazy enough that it thinks it is a god. Regardless, it is quite powerful by any scale- it is what resurrected Nolan, and I think it is wired directly into Irisas brain.

I like this hypothesis. It seemed crazy for Irisa to kill that Casti fishmonger woman in AngelArk. I'd like to know who did the cave drawings and what the Kaziri and its occupants were up to when they got buried down there however many thousands of years ago. Presumably ex-Mayor Nikki knew, also Doc Yewll and the colonel.

[Emily Thrace]

The thing is, Techno-Mysticism is pretty accurate - There is a very old ship AI beneath defiance pretending to be a god. It is pretty darn unclear if this is just a manipulative ploy, or if said AI has actually gone crazy enough that it thinks it is a god. Regardless, it is quite powerful by any scale- it is what resurrected Nolan, and I think it is wired directly into Irisas brain.

 

I don't think we know enough about Votan tech to say whether its and AI or not. It could be a super intelligent being they brought over on the ship in stasis. Also one thing DS9 taught its "God" is in the eye of the worshipper. This thing being an AI or just an alien doesn't rule out it being considered a god to the Votan's.

[maczero]

 

Datak was an idiot with no self control who got the family in trouble in the first place by killing the colonel. Stahma has to be calculating that if she's taking care of business, why should she go back to kowtowing to Datak and his ego. If he returns any time soon, she'll fake delight and start scheming on how to get rid of him again.

I'm in the camp that believes Stahma loves Datak.  If she really doesn't want him back, why go to the prison?  Why keep him updated with reports on his business or the petition for his release.  And the handjobs.  It seems cutting off all contact with him would drive him berserk enough to either get shanked during a prison fight or killed during a poorly planned escape attempt.

Edited June 25, 2014 by maczero

[Chaos Theory]

Stahma is playing high level chess. I don't think she wants Datak dead but she doesn't want him out of prison. She lives in a very male dominated society; chances are good she would be married off if she was a widow but I woman standing by her man doing time in prison is a whole other matter. She is playing both Datak and Alak but do I think she loves them? Yes. Do I think she would shank them both for her own power and pleasure....Alak...? Datak yes.

[jhlipton]

One thing for sure -- Stahna needs to keep taking baths, whether Alak likes it or not. :D

[johntfs]

Stahma is playing high level chess. I don't think she wants Datak dead but she doesn't want him out of prison. She lives in a very male dominated society; chances are good she would be married off if she was a widow but I woman standing by her man doing time in prison is a whole other matter. She is playing both Datak and Alak but do I think she loves them? Yes. Do I think she would shank them both for her own power and pleasure....Alak...? Datak yes.

 

I don't really know about that.  I think back to "Goodbye, Blue Sky" from the first season and Stahma's talk with Kenya.  At one point she says something like "Don't get me wrong.  I love my life.  I love my boys."  I think that "boys" is telling in that context.  She doesn't say "I love my men" or even "I love my husband and son."  On some level Stahma sees Alak and Datak as children that she needs to quietly guide.  Or not so quietly guide at this point.

 

Another reason I really like this show is that no one is of a piece.  Everyone has different sides to them.  Nolan is a charming, rough-and-ready lawman who loves his alien daughter and is also a ruthlessly cold killer who can kill a handcuffed prisoner and murder the sole support of a woman and her child.  Stahma is a lethally subtle plotter who can murder Amanda's sister and still be honestly concerned for Amanda's well being.  Even poor, dead Hunter Bell, wife-beating asshole that he was, still showed compassion and decency to Tommy, getting him a job and a place in the town.

[jhlipton]

Another reason I really like this show is that no one is of a piece.

Well said. It feels like the characters are people, not stereotypes. Except maybe the hell-bugs...

[Loandbehold]

 

Well said. It feels like the characters are people, not stereotypes. Except maybe the hell-bugs...

They're just misunderstood.

 

What's interesting to me about Shtama is that she was already chafing against the paternalism of her race. She pushed the guy her father was going to have her marry out an airlock (b/c Datak couldn't). Now that she's been on Earth and seen how humans operate, she's taking more strides to become a powerful person in her own right. Sure, for Datak's Castithan crew, she still must operate behind the scenes, in a Machievellian fashion, but her "straight talk" with Alak leads me to believe the situation won't remain that way for long. It could lead to danger for Stahma when it's found out that she's been operating the business in Datak's absence, but I think there's only so much longer that she can remain the meek little wife and mother on the outside.

[Chaos Theory]

Loandbehold you said it better then I could.  I have no doubt that Stahma loves Datak but I have no doubt she will airlock his ass if a better option comes along or if she actually thinks she can control his empire on her own.  

[90PercentGravity]

I have to give props to the makeup department. The makeup is a lot better this season. It doesn't look at cakey and cracked as it did last season. Some of that might be a bigger CGI budget, too. I wonder how they do Irisa's eyes? The other characters eyes look like contacts, but Irisa's actually look real. As in, they don't look like there is flat color on the surface, but like there is really a cornea over the color and you can see the depth of the iris, if that makes sense.

[johntfs]

Assuming that they use the same basic style as last year, Irisa's eyes are also done via contact lens.